Dealer Tipping Side Bets

Two inventors at G2E talked about whether side bets should pay dealers too - both inventors were casino dealers but had very different opinions on the same topic.

One said that he wanted dealers to like and promote his game, and as a dealer felt that he should add dealer payouts to all side bets going forward.

The other inventor said that it's just pandering and it does not particularly matter if dealers like a game. After all, I have heard that many dealers dislike or have trouble with Free Bet yet it rose to become the most popular blackjack variant ever.

Personally, from a "player" perspective, I would probably never play a side bet that pays out dealers. The RTP on side bets already low enough, and it just shows that more RTP is being taken from me to give to the casino employees.

What do you think?

I'd usually tip $1 for every $500 I'm up after color-up, but then that wouldn't be a tip because it wasn't prompt.

I ran across a video yesterday from Vegas Aces (a Wizard of Odds association), and it mentions tiers of dealer wages and tips at different tiers of casinos but most of the data is from last decade, a decade ago. No mention of fast food inflation this decade. But it puts many of the jobs at minimum wages below the Federal floor of $7.25/hr with dealers getting tips to make up the difference. At lower & mid-tier casinos, this is not a living wage, it's a live in your parent's basement wage. The tips are lemonade stand level at the lower tier casinos. "It's the management, stupid!" is all I can say. From what I can see, a living wage in Vegas is at least $100K/yr for a single person now.

How Much Do Casino Dealers Make? Salary & Tips Explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfGPL9V2Mq4

Do you mean automatically pay out the dealer something on winning side bets?

At Baccarat, the player is free to place a bet "on the side" (on the side of his bet) for the dealer wherever he wants, including on high payout side bets (paying up to 100X or 200X), I believe within limits of max 10% of the player's bet (for a while when Peter Morton owned the Hard Rock, max bets for dealers on side bets such as the tie bet were limited to $25. no matter what the player was betting). Is this different on other table games?

I'm talking about side bets bets where it's like

Royal Flush 1000:1. $100 for dealer
Straight Flush 300:1. $25 for dealer
Quads 50:1. $5 for dealer

Maybe it's called "Dealer Envy" sometimes I don't remember.

Quote: harris

I'm talking about side bets bets where it's like

Royal Flush 1000:1. $100 for dealer
Straight Flush 300:1. $25 for dealer
Quads 50:1. $5 for dealer

Maybe it's called "Dealer Envy" sometimes I don't remember.
link to original post

I usually hear it called Dealer Envy.

Nobody who really cares about RTP is playing the side bet anyway, and the player and the dealer might both feel better if the dealer gets a piece of a premium hand.

If you're already building an envy payout into the sidebet, I'd be sure to include it for other players as well. If I'm playing $1 on the side (fat chance!) and YOU make a Royal, it would be nice to get a few bucks on my side bet. The player envy component is more likely than the dealer envy to promote action, in my opinion.

(I could be wrong.)

Quote: harris

I'm talking about side bets bets where it's like

Royal Flush 1000:1. $100 for dealer
Straight Flush 300:1. $25 for dealer
Quads 50:1. $5 for dealer

Maybe it's called "Dealer Envy" sometimes I don't remember.
link to original post

Dollar amounts aside, are your proposing that the dealer get something automatically upon a player win? That is never going to happen.

The player has to lay a "side" bet alongside his bet for that to happen. Make an affirmative action.

There is one game I saw that has a Dealer Envy payout but I forgot what it was, maybe a game where the Dealer spot goes around the table and players take turns being the dealer, and paying out!

Quote: MDawg

Dollar amounts aside, are your proposing that the dealer get something automatically upon a player win?

I am not proposing anything, this is an existing phenomenon that I observed

The reason why they do this is that sidebets detract from tipping. Players will "dispose of" $1 and $2.50 cheques, or $5 on higher limit games on the sidebet instead of a dealer bet or direct tip.

I don't mind it because that doesn't affect my calculations for the sidebet.

I would never ever play a casino game or place any bet where the dealer gets a portion of my winnings as part of the rules. But it appears that Dealer envy doesn't come out the player winnings. From AI:

Quote:

AI Overview
Dealer Envy in a casino is an optional side bet or bonus mechanic where the table dealer receives a separate payout—paid directly by the house—whenever a player hits a qualifying winning hand or specific bet.
How Dealer Envy Works
• House-Paid Bonus: The dealer's envy bonus comes straight from the casino and is never deducted from a player's actual winnings.
• Built-In Tipping: It acts as an automatic, game-driven way to generate dealer tips during exciting table moments (such as hitting high-level craps repeater bets, roulette green sequences, or specific blackjack side bets).
• Distinction from Player Envy Bonus: A standard "Envy Bonus" normally rewards other players at the table when someone hits a premium hand (common in poker-based games like Pai Gow Poker or Let It Ride), whereas Dealer Envy specifically targets compensation for the staff running the game.
If you're looking for information on a specific game, tell me:
• What casino game you are playing (Craps, Roulette, Blackjack, etc.)
• The name of the side bet you saw
I can give you the exact payout rules and odds.

Quote: MDawg

Dollar amounts aside, are your proposing that the dealer get something automatically upon a player win? That is never going to happen.

The player has to lay a "side" bet alongside his bet for that to happen. Make an affirmative action.
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Part of the sidebet means that a tiny fraction of the house's winnings are paid to the dealer on certain premium hand wins. The player still makes their 1000:1 or whatever, the toke pool gets $25 from the house.

And I would kind of expect you to start swilling Jack Daniels at the tables before I'd expect to see you dropping chips into a 20% edge, whether or not the dealer gets a taste.

Yeah it doesn’t come from your wins… but the casino has to keep their house edge above 0% somehow…

All I’m saying is I know a side bet won’t have a 99%+ RTP if the dealer gets some money from it. And there are 99%+ side bets

The problem I have with Dealer Envy is the dealer payout is almost always considerably less than what a $1 dealer tokebet would have paid. I can't help but think the dealers make less when these are implemented.

Quote: Deucekies

The problem I have with Dealer Envy is the dealer payout is almost always considerably less than what a $1 dealer tokebet would have paid. I can't help but think the dealers make less when these are implemented.
link to original post

If the dealer envy comes from the casino to the delaer and not from the player winnings, the player can still make a tokebet. Right?

Slightly off topic, but here goes:

When a particular casino (that I shan't name) brought in Mississippi Stud, they allowed bets for the dealer at any time before the dealer revealed the last of the community cards. Thus, the players were frequently in a position to know that the hand was a winner before opting to bet "for the boys".

I am not much of a tipper, but even I would bet $5 for the dealer when I was in such a position with two pair or trips. Once, when I was holding 3-3 with a board showing 9-3, my $5 turned into $205 for the dealer when she flipped the fourth 3.

Often, the soon-to-be-winning player would tell other players, "Hey, I have a good hand. Want to give me some chips to add to my dealer bet?" and other players would bet for the dealer on that player's hand as well.

The dealers loved it, but the casino eventually figured out that those "bets" were simply transferring chips from the dealer rack directly to the tip box with no possibility of going to the house, so they ended the practice. Further degrading the game, they finally stopped the dealers from inadvertently flashing the community cards, so I stopped playing altogether.

Dog Hand

All games allow a secondary bet, and at less than the table minimum, ‘for the boys.’ And that’s for the base bet, as well as any of the side bets, even on a game that has dealer envy. In fact, you can make the bet for the boys even if you’re not on that bet yourself.

Dealer envy does exist on some side bets.

It is designed to get dealers to like and/or promote the bet. Not sure how well that works.

I have no data, but I think it discourages regular tips since the envy is already there for the dealers.

Quote: GenoDRPh

Quote: Deucekies

The problem I have with Dealer Envy is the dealer payout is almost always considerably less than what a $1 dealer tokebet would have paid. I can't help but think the dealers make less when these are implemented.
link to original post

If the dealer envy comes from the casino to the delaer and not from the player winnings, the player can still make a tokebet. Right?
link to original post

Yes, but I wonder how many people are doing that. I bet quite a few players see the dealer envy and think "Eh, that's good enough." Of course I'd be happy to be wrong in that assumption.

Quote: DogHand

Slightly off topic, but here goes:

When a particular casino (that I shan't name) brought in Mississippi Stud, they allowed bets for the dealer at any time before the dealer revealed the last of the community cards. Thus, the players were frequently in a position to know that the hand was a winner before opting to bet "for the boys".

I am not much of a tipper, but even I would bet $5 for the dealer when I was in such a position with two pair or trips. Once, when I was holding 3-3 with a board showing 9-3, my $5 turned into $205 for the dealer when she flipped the fourth 3.

Do you mean that if you started out with a dealer bet on ante before the cards are dealt, you could back it up with the appropriate 1-3x on each street? Or are you saying they basically let you "past post" the dealer bet after getting your cards?

EDIT: I think I understand you now. You were allowed to bet for the dealer on the street bets without necessarily having a dealer bet on the ante. Is that right?

I've heard about a dealer in Oklahoma getting a $50 ante dealer bet, player got a big pocket pair and jammed it the whole way for both of them, and it turned into quads for a $20,000 payout to the dealer. She kept her own too.