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DRich
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October 7th, 2015 at 11:30:58 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Interviewees were Jufria, ....



I think this is to whom you were referring:



Yes, it is the same guy.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Ahigh
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October 7th, 2015 at 11:51:53 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Follow up:

Wow, I bought some NTGL one week ago, and it has soared over 50% since then.

Penny stocks: not for the faint of heart (my NTEK has plummeted over 90% since I bought it some time ago).



I wish I could use it as a predictor of our success, but at this point, we went from almost no trades to $10,000 to $20,000 worth of trades per day with the show. Much of those, I would expect, are new entrants into the ticker like yourself who are just putting a toe in. So for example, if you bought $1,000 worth there might be another nine or so people wanting to take that bet.

We have 181,660,650 shares outstanding and we are authorized for 450,000,000 shares.

The market cap is currently at around 4.5M up from a low market cap recently of $635K.

I think where a lot of people go wrong is interpreting the share price alone to have meaning (as if every stock has the same number of outstanding shares).

I do encourage anyone investing to be very knowledgeable about bid/ask spreads, liquidity, and how to calculate market cap. If you think "wow a penny is cheap I can afford that" please don't invest and then complain to me about the company as a result of your lack of knowledge.

Also, do not trust the outstanding shares being reported by some of these other places. I'm not sure why it is wrong in so many places, but right now, Ameritrade is reporting that we have 4.9B outstanding shares and a market cap of 120M.



I can tell you that we are not currently worth 120M, and if I were an outside investor and I believed Ameritrade, there is no way I would invest in a company as small as ours that is reported by Ameritrade to have that large of a market cap.

When I worked with Nintendo to help create PilotWings, it was known that the amount of profit per employee was over $1M/year, and they had over a 1B market cap obviously. But based on market cap, people perceived Nintendo to have far more employees than they had at that time. Our earnings are still zero, but our company valuation is pretty close to $1M per employee as of today. And that is absolutely something that I am proud of and I know each of my team members is also very proud of, as is Al Stone who just called and relayed how impressed he was with what we did on such a limited budget.

Please, though, if you do want to invest, do your own due diligence and do realize that volatility is RAMPANT and liquidity has not yet arrived by a longshot.
aahigh.com
Ahigh
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October 7th, 2015 at 8:16:38 PM permalink
This was recorded a few minutes ago here in the office. Wanted to get some view of what this thing looks like when you play your own music and are ready for a hard-core AP-hopeful session.

aahigh.com
Ahigh
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October 8th, 2015 at 7:58:51 PM permalink
Another video showing more of the gameplay and menus and so on...

aahigh.com
teliot
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October 13th, 2015 at 8:47:02 AM permalink
From a commentary by Jeff Hwang in The Motley Fool

"Radical Plays: Vegas Pinball 2047 (NanoTech Gaming)

Las Vegas-based NanoTech Gaming made a bit of a splash last year when it introduced its Vegas Pinball 2047 game at G2E 2014. Vegas Pinball 2047 bypasses slot play entirely and is a straight pinball game played on a nifty “steampunk”-styled pinball cabinet with physical buttons for gameplay, but on an electronic screen.

The pinball game itself requires no explanation; the key is how wagering is implemented, because it is quite complex, while the outcome is still largely random."


Continued here ...
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Zcore13
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October 13th, 2015 at 9:00:29 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

From a commentary by Jeff Hwang in The Motley Fool

"Radical Plays: Vegas Pinball 2047 (NanoTech Gaming)

Las Vegas-based NanoTech Gaming made a bit of a splash last year when it introduced its Vegas Pinball 2047 game at G2E 2014. Vegas Pinball 2047 bypasses slot play entirely and is a straight pinball game played on a nifty “steampunk”-styled pinball cabinet with physical buttons for gameplay, but on an electronic screen.

The pinball game itself requires no explanation; the key is how wagering is implemented, because it is quite complex, while the outcome is still largely random."


Continued here ...



So it looks like the writer says the same thing we've been saying here for over a year...



ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
teliot
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October 13th, 2015 at 9:03:57 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

So it looks like the write says the same thing we've been saying here for over a year...

He is not as kind.
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TheGrimReaper13
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October 13th, 2015 at 9:04:48 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

So much bullshit; so little time!
sabre
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October 13th, 2015 at 10:06:54 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13


So it looks like the writer says the same thing we've been saying here for over a year...



No worries ... Jeff Hwang obviously doesn't understand their math model.

Seriously though, his last two paragraphs on their game are gold. Nanotech would do well to reread them 100 times before jumping to their stock "You just don't understand" answer.
Zcore13
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October 13th, 2015 at 10:23:57 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

No worries ... Jeff Hwang obviously doesn't understand their math model.



Ha! True. Nor will any other human that were to approach it to play.

NanoTech, it would be a really good idea to focus on a different path before it's too late. Skilled based games are coming in limited form. It needs to be simple to play and desperate how to win, easy to learn with no outside intervention and have a concept that is attractive to the masses. I would suggest once again that you need an experienced casino gaming person on your team.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
bloodoil
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October 13th, 2015 at 10:47:01 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

You know, it's interesting that Axel mentioned the fur/dirt aspect. I'm afraid that was my first reaction: "That's going to look dirty and worn really fast the way people move through casinos and throw drinks and cigarettes around." Just some feedback, could easily be wrong depending on materials.

I get the attraction of the retro-programming for a certain age of customers. Total FWIW: I was only ever really good at Galaga for some reason. I think I'm much more a customer for the Pinball concept than for the Video Game concept as a former pinball addict, and maybe slightly too old to have been drawn into VG's; think I was 16 when Pong came into arcades.

However, you could draw VG skill players/addicts trying to win at their favorite arcade concepts as well as more casual gamers, so I think maybe there's a built-in market.

All FWIW.



how is that posdible beach? Did you mean you were 6 ? PONG came out in 1972 ! ! !
Dicenor33
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October 13th, 2015 at 10:56:53 AM permalink
There are a whole lot of games out there which require thinking. Poker, chess, jeopardy and so forth. I am thinking of the type of people who will play slot machines by using skills and knowledge. Women won't play'em, too complicated, poker players won't play'em simply because poker is more exciting, middle age men stay around craps table killing time, it leaves younger crowd, the same type which hanged around the arcades not long time ago. Casino will look like an arcade, a whole bunch of people will stare at some super duper player as if it was a ball game, drinking beer, making noise, brrr, that will chase a lot of patrons away. Who wants to be in a zoo? The management will probably try them for a while, but later will get rid of them.
EvenBob
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October 13th, 2015 at 11:05:24 AM permalink
" I don't see either of those things happening. For starters, I don't see casino operators offering a game that's beatable – particularly one where a single advantage player can hog the machine and prevent non-advantage players from playing. Nor do I see casual players playing this for $100 a pop... I don't fancy the chances of the average person sitting or standing at one of these machines and figuring out how the wagering works on his own."

I said exactly that a year ago. At the end
the author says scrap all the complicated
wagering, it won't fly with casinos anyway.
Just turn it into a regular pinball machine.
But wait, aren't there already lots of regular
PB's?

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/10/11/g2e-2015-evaluating-the-skill-based-games.aspx
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
stv2049
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October 13th, 2015 at 12:17:47 PM permalink
Quote: JeffHwang

" I don't fancy the chances of the average person sitting or standing at one of these machines and figuring out how the wagering works on his own."



Quote: EvenBob

I said exactly that a year ago. At the end
the author says scrap all the complicated
wagering, it won't fly with casinos anyway.



Our wagering system is far less complicated and far more flexible and transparent than craps! It's simple and awesome!

I don't fancy the chances of the average person standing at a craps table and figuring out how the wagering works on his own!

Keep up the great comments everyone! Kitty loves to play!

STV
-- Stephen Riesenberger Creative Director, Game Designer NanoTech Gaming
SOOPOO
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October 13th, 2015 at 12:25:33 PM permalink
Quote: stv2049



I don't fancy the chances of the average person standing at a craps table and figuring out how the wagering works on his own!



I would bet my bottom dollar that if craps didn't exist, and someone just now invented it and tried to sell it to a casino it would have ZERO chance of making it.
teddys
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October 13th, 2015 at 12:51:36 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I would bet my bottom dollar that if craps didn't exist, and someone just now invented it and tried to sell it to a casino it would have ZERO chance of making it.

What about Pai Gow tiles? :)
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
TheGrimReaper13
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October 13th, 2015 at 1:05:32 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I would bet my bottom dollar that if craps didn't exist, and someone just now invented it and tried to sell it to a casino it would have ZERO chance of making it.

Yes, it's a funny world we live in now. Where people lost interest in getting their brains kicked in by the casinos and the crony governments who sponsored them, who led us to believe you could "make it" there.
So much bullshit; so little time!
EvenBob
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October 13th, 2015 at 1:18:00 PM permalink
Quote: stv2049


Keep up the great comments everyone! Kitty loves to play!
STV



You think these comments are 'great'? Hwang
says:

"My recommendation would be to ditch the mechanism that allows for a floating house advantage, and also to ditch the variable betting.. which equates to a minimum player spend of $0.50 per play – somewhere in the neighborhood of what one might spend on a pinball machine in an arcade."

He trashes the setup you have now, and says the
only chance you have is turn it into a regular
pinball and stick it in O'sheas. He says that
the payback system you use probably isn't
even legal. And this is great stuff to you? This
article is about as bad as it can get. And it's
in Motly Fool no less, which a lot of people
read.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
SOOPOO
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October 13th, 2015 at 3:43:38 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

What about Pai Gow tiles? :)



Same.

I hope to be able to see Kat while I am in Vegas. Although Bob makes it seem like the plague, I have a hunch there is a demographic (young people) that DO have money (despite what EB says), that may find it playable. I hope they get it into a few casinos to see what happens....
DRich
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October 13th, 2015 at 4:15:15 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Same.

I hope to be able to see Kat while I am in Vegas. Although Bob makes it seem like the plague, I have a hunch there is a demographic (young people) that DO have money (despite what EB says), that may find it playable. I hope they get it into a few casinos to see what happens....



I doubt that it will be in the casinos in the next 6 months. Remember, they introduced the pinball game at last years show and it isn't out yet. Unless they find a partner with an approved slot platform I doubt you will see any of their games within a year. I am not trying to be negative about Nanotech, it just takes over a year to get a new platform approved.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
EvenBob
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October 13th, 2015 at 4:16:34 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I hope they get it into a few casinos to see what happens....



Me too. Remember playing PacMan? Remember
why you quit playing PacMan?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
stv2049
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October 13th, 2015 at 4:59:29 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

You think these comments are 'great'? Hwang
says:

"My recommendation would be to ditch the mechanism that allows for a floating house advantage, and also to ditch the variable betting.. which equates to a minimum player spend of $0.50 per play – somewhere in the neighborhood of what one might spend on a pinball machine in an arcade."

He trashes the setup you have now, and says the
only chance you have is turn it into a regular
pinball and stick it in O'sheas. He says that
the payback system you use probably isn't
even legal. And this is great stuff to you? This
article is about as bad as it can get. And it's
in Motly Fool no less, which a lot of people
read.

I sure do, EvenBob! Whenever folks are talking about CasinoKat, it's great! Keep it up!

(BTW I love seeing your unique and strangely-left-justified column-formatting!)
Jeff Hwang makes two recommendations. I don't see that as trashing our setup!

Also, you snipped out part of his comment which invalidates your claim that he says, "turn it into a regular pinball."

What Jeff Hwang said in his suggestion was this:
Quote: Jeff Hwang

"My recommendation would be to ditch the mechanism that allows for a floating house advantage, and also to ditch the variable betting option and standardize on a fixed bet size and prize. This could be something like $5 minimum bets with a 1-to-1 payoff (a $5 win for a $5 bet) and a 10% house advantage, which equates to a minimum player spend of $0.50 per play – somewhere in the neighborhood of what one might spend on a pinball machine in an arcade. Such a proposition would be more palatable, and a reasonable fit for a casual, millennial-friendly place like O'Sheas."

It's absolutely OK for a place like O'Sheas to operate Vegas2047 or CasinoKat at this bet denomination and house edge, although we believe it won't earn as much as we think it could.

I've pawed over Senate Bill 9 and Regulation 14 especially. I don't get where you think Jeff claims that "the payback system you use probably isn't even legal." Is it from this block?
Quote: Jeff Hwang

Now I'm not a legal expert, but even if a casino operator wanted to offer such a proposition, I'm skeptical that regulations allowing such a mechanism would gain widespread adoption as more states look at skill-based gaming.

Maybe in my myopic view of casinos I missed it.

Or maybe it's the catnip.

Please include full quotes to back up your claims, unless you're just flinging opinions, in the future. It helps others, including MEOW, keep up with your bullet-train of thought! I know you're smart enough to do it!

Love you, EvenBob, purrr!

STV
-- Stephen Riesenberger Creative Director, Game Designer NanoTech Gaming
stv2049
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October 13th, 2015 at 5:01:09 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Me too. Remember playing PacMan? Remember
why you quit playing PacMan?

Me three! I remember playing PacMan! I also remember why I quit playing PacMan! I ran out of quarters! MEOW!

STV
-- Stephen Riesenberger Creative Director, Game Designer NanoTech Gaming
Ibeatyouraces
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October 13th, 2015 at 5:41:28 PM permalink
You can play Pac-Man at Motorcity on the first floor at the sports bar in back. And it's free!!
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
teliot
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October 13th, 2015 at 6:20:11 PM permalink
This is the reason that PacMan died:

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Pac-Man-Ken-Uston/dp/1626548978

Yeah, that Kenny Uston.
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
Ibeatyouraces
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October 13th, 2015 at 6:33:12 PM permalink
You don't need the book.

http://www.mameworld.info/net/pacman/patterns.html
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
teliot
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October 13th, 2015 at 6:51:57 PM permalink
The point is that the game died because advantage players busted it.
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Ibeatyouraces
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October 13th, 2015 at 6:54:38 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

The point is that the game died because advantage players busted it.


Shoulda made it 50¢ instead of 25¢ :-)

And as I said, I can play it FREE at Motorcity.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
teliot
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October 13th, 2015 at 7:34:15 PM permalink
I think Charles Mousseau (the mathematician) was backed off for advantage play against an arcade game (there was something about him abusing a "free pizza" clause).

Who, besides the NTEK guys, will stand up for the viability of their ideas here?
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Ahigh
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October 13th, 2015 at 7:52:15 PM permalink
You guys are hilarious. I wish I only had to think through as far as anyone in the previous three pages coming to conclusions in order to be satisfied.

Listen, and here is a truth: ignorance is bliss.

Go off and be blissful.
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Ahigh
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October 13th, 2015 at 8:20:03 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

This is the reason that PacMan died:

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Pac-Man-Ken-Uston/dp/1626548978

Yeah, that Kenny Uston.



I read that book, and if you did too, you'll recall there is no 9th key pattern that doesn't require you to turn around.

IIRC, Ken had you turning around pretty quickly and the pattern was too difficult to pull off with any frequency at all.

But you already knew that, and you have a 9th key pattern down, right? And you also knew that we just emulated Pac-Man and suffer from all of the same design issues of the original, no wait, we don't have the actual pac-man game?

Oh. Well, it almost seemed like you had discovered something we didn't think about if you ASSUME WE ARE COMPLETELY RETARDED AND DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING.

Nice try.

I really wish we had more INTELLIGENT conversation on a website named for Wizardry and Probabilities.

Many members here lack even basic knowledge of logical proofs.

I'd just be happy with a modicum of standards for manners around this joint.
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teliot
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October 13th, 2015 at 8:59:51 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I read that book, and if you did too, you'll recall there is no 9th key pattern that doesn't require you to turn around.

IIRC, Ken had you turning around pretty quickly and the pattern was too difficult to pull off with any frequency at all.

But you already knew that, and you have a 9th key pattern down, right? And you also knew that we just emulated Pac-Man and suffer from all of the same design issues of the original, no wait, we don't have the actual pac-man game?

Oh. Well, it almost seemed like you had discovered something we didn't think about if you ASSUME WE ARE COMPLETELY RETARDED AND DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING.

Nice try.

I really wish we had more INTELLIGENT conversation on a website named for Wizardry and Probabilities.

Many members here lack even basic knowledge of logical proofs.

I'd just be happy with a modicum of standards for manners around this joint.

My comment wasn't directed at you or your product. It was a generic comment about PacMan, since the issue was raised on why the original died out. Essentially too many players got too good (at that version), and Kenny had a lot to do with that. I'm sorry you took it as a personal statement about your product or your abilities to program. That was not my intention at all.

As for proofs, I'll have to double check if I can remember how to do that.
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EvenBob
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October 14th, 2015 at 8:27:11 AM permalink
Quote: stv2049

I sure do, EvenBob! Whenever folks are talking about CasinoKat, it's great! Keep it up!
STV



That's amazing! That you can get anything positive
out of that article that basically trashed your
products! And it's not great when people are
saying negative things about what you're doing!
Any publicity is good publicity is not true, in fact
it's an oxymoron! (I have to stop now, my ! finger
is tired)
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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October 14th, 2015 at 8:34:28 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

if you ASSUME WE ARE COMPLETELY RETARDED AND DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING.
.



Nobody said that! Nobody implied that! But
keep the comments coming, we love ya
Ahigh! Must be the catnip or something!
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
MrV
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October 14th, 2015 at 8:48:55 AM permalink
Whether they succeed or fail, at least they're trying.

Not all of us live by the mantra: "If I never try, I'll never fail."

Keep at it, guys: somebody will hit it out of the park someday.
"What, me worry?"
stv2049
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October 14th, 2015 at 9:15:50 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

This is the reason that PacMan died:

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Pac-Man-Ken-Uston/dp/1626548978

Yeah, that Kenny Uston.


Quote: Ibeatyouraces

You don't need the book.

http://www.mameworld.info/net/pacman/patterns.html



CasinoKat has enough built-in randomness that it's a better test of pure skill than PacMan's pattern memorization:

Random mazes, random enemy movements, random bonus prizes.

Sure, skilled players will be able to achieve above average scores, but will they be able to do so over the long run? PacMan is analogous to Video Poker with regards to a player's ability to Advantage Play.

CasinoKat does not suffer from the same game design flaws. It isn't puuurrrfect, but it's pretty good!

STV
-- Stephen Riesenberger Creative Director, Game Designer NanoTech Gaming
AxelWolf
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October 14th, 2015 at 9:47:11 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Quote: teliot

From a commentary by Jeff Hwang in The Motley Fool

"Radical Plays: Vegas Pinball 2047 (NanoTech Gaming)

Las Vegas-based NanoTech Gaming made a bit of a splash last year when it introduced its Vegas Pinball 2047 game at G2E 2014. Vegas Pinball 2047 bypasses slot play entirely and is a straight pinball game played on a nifty “steampunk”-styled pinball cabinet with physical buttons for gameplay, but on an electronic screen.

The pinball game itself requires no explanation; the key is how wagering is implemented, because it is quite complex, while the outcome is still largely random."


Continued here ...



So it looks like the writer says the same thing we've been saying here for over a year...



ZCore13

save me the time please and tell us here. thank you in advance.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
superrick
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October 14th, 2015 at 10:39:37 AM permalink
When it comes to trying to cut down someone, some of you guys aren't even getting close!

Ahigh and crew was ahead of the rest of the field when it came to developing the skill base game. When you read this thread it sounds like some just don't get it. The skill base games are coming, Ahigh is one of the guys on the forefront of developing game of this type!

Development of skill-based games is altering casinos’ strategies

http://vegasinc.com/business/gaming/2015/oct/13/casinos-skill-based-games-customers-las-vegas/
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
EvenBob
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October 14th, 2015 at 11:54:02 AM permalink
Here's why I don't like the idea of skill based
casino games. It's another casino trick, part
of their smoke and mirrors plan. C'mon in,
we now have games where you can get ahead
and stay ahead of the casino if you have enough
skill! Bullcrap.

There is already a skill based game, it's called card
counting BJ. How does the casino react to those
skill based players? They used to beat them up and
break their legs. They can't do that anymore, so
now they just ban them for life. That's what casinos
think of a player who has a paltry 1% edge on
them.

And now you want us to believe they will allow real
skill based machines on the floor, that you can get
ahead on? Sure they will, wink wink. They will never,
I repeat never, allow a game in a casino where you
can get ahead and stay ahead by using skill. Never.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
sabre
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October 14th, 2015 at 12:02:33 PM permalink
But they will allow a game where your skill can make it a 99% game instead of a 90% game. Or a skill based game played against others where the house is taking a rake. Skill based gaming doesn't have to equal player advantage over the house.
sabre
sabre
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October 14th, 2015 at 12:03:48 PM permalink
And I know NTech is going to respond that their advantage play model means nobody in aggregate has an advantage over the house. Doesn't matter, the house doesn't want a single person having an edge, despite how much the collective loses.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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October 14th, 2015 at 12:09:01 PM permalink
Quote: sabre

... Doesn't matter, the house doesn't want a single person having an edge, despite how much the collective loses.


Exactly!! That AP is talking up valuable real estate from losers.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 14th, 2015 at 12:31:51 PM permalink
Quote: sabre

But they will allow a game where your skill can make it a 99% game instead of a 90% game. .



All the player will see is the casino has
his money when he leaves. What's the
point of calling it a skill game if you
can't get ahead and stay ahead. Calling
it skill based is just another marketing
ploy, another way to fool the unsuspecting.

Do you know most slot players think they
can eventually get ahead and stay there?
Ask them, you'll be astounded at their
ignorance. Never underestimate the
ignorance of the average casino patron.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AxelWolf
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October 14th, 2015 at 12:59:31 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Here's why I don't like the idea of skill based
casino games. It's another casino trick, part
of their smoke and mirrors plan. C'mon in,
we now have games where you can get ahead
and stay ahead of the casino if you have enough
skill! Bullcrap.

There is already a skill based game, it's called card
counting BJ. How does the casino react to those
skill based players? They used to beat them up and
break their legs. They can't do that anymore, so
now they just ban them for life. That's what casinos
think of a player who has a paltry 1% edge on
them.

And now you want us to believe they will allow real
skill based machines on the floor, that you can get
ahead on? Sure they will, wink wink. They will never,
I repeat never, allow a game in a casino where you
can get ahead and stay ahead by using skill. Never.

What are you talking about? They add advantage slots to the casino all the time. They are probably one in a casino some place right now. they keep making and adding new versions of UX type of VP as well. After a few conversations lately with a few guys who I trust and believe what what they are saying. A motivated UXer can make a fair amount, especially in the right locations.

BJ is totally different from traditional skill games because the house is the one who pays the card counters, it's not the other players. BJ skill can be used to get a higher return, but its not a skill game.

If they can accept poker, they will have to accept skill games. Even if they use the skill games as a way to get younger players in the door who can spend money on other things and eventually take up other games.

In the past the ploppys that played non obvious banked or pooled VP/slots got annoyed that AP's were unfairly taking money from them. They walked up with the idea that they had a fair chance and no skill was involved. Once they realized what was going on the casinos received complaints and bitched because they had no clue what they were getting into.

Now people will know what they are getting into when they choose to play a skill game. It will be like poker, most people know dam well what your getting into.

I don't think skill games will be taking over any time soon, I just think they will have a big roll in the casinos. There will obviously be many different machines with many different skill levels.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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October 14th, 2015 at 1:05:57 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob


Do you know most slot players think they
can eventually get ahead and stay there?
Ask them, you'll be astounded at their
ignorance. Never underestimate the
ignorance of the average casino patron.

Or even roulette (-;
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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October 14th, 2015 at 1:13:24 PM permalink
Quote: sabre

And I know NTech is going to respond that their advantage play model means nobody in aggregate has an advantage over the house. Doesn't matter, the house doesn't want a single person having an edge, despite how much the collective loses.

For now this is true but they may soon change that attitude if it works. They changed there attitude about poker. If they can create a skill game like poker but almost as fast as slots they may have something.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 14th, 2015 at 1:18:14 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

What are you talking about? .



I'm talking about calling something a 'skill'
game by the casino and implying you can
get ahead and stay ahead on it when you can
do no such thing. The only way you can do
that is if everybody else who plays is terrible.
If everybody has skill there will never be
anything to win. It's nothing like poker, they
can all be skilled players and somebody will
always win the jackpot.

"So in actuality, a good player can't just hog the machine and prevent bad players from playing; instead, they can hog the machine when the achievable payback rate is high, and then leave the worse conditions for players who don't know the difference. Now I'm not a legal expert, but even if a casino operator wanted to offer such a proposition, I'm skeptical that regulations allowing such a mechanism would gain widespread adoption as more states look at skill-based gaming."
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
sabre
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October 14th, 2015 at 1:33:54 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

For now this is true but they may soon change that attitude if it works. They changed there attitude about poker. If they can create a skill game like poker but almost as fast as slots they may have something.



Raking a player to player game is fine. Casinos love that. Guaranteed no variance income.
bloodoil
bloodoil
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October 14th, 2015 at 2:03:57 PM permalink
Almost all jurisdictions require a minimum return on slot machines. How do you insure a minimum payoff on a game of skill? Just asking.
stv2049
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October 14th, 2015 at 3:33:16 PM permalink
Quote: bloodoil

Almost all jurisdictions require a minimum return on slot machines. How do you insure a minimum payoff on a game of skill? Just asking.

Great question! Nevada, for example, requires a 75% minimum aggregate theoretical return to player. Our NanoTech Advantage math model guarantees this on each wager, meaning no matter how poorly you do, or even if you intentionally throw a game, your payback is 75% minimum.

The lower the house edge is, the greater the opportunity for player advantage on an individual wager. In our many examples where we're working with a 1% house edge, 99% is the average aggregate payback percentage. 75% is the minimum, which means that we can offer up to a 123% payback if the theoretical exists to award.

It's simple, balanced, fair to the casino, and fair (even moreso than Video Poker) to the player.

STV
-- Stephen Riesenberger Creative Director, Game Designer NanoTech Gaming
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