Vegas 2047 Pinball - G2E 2014

Quote: Zcore13

It's already a hard sell without everything else that has been mentioned. I'd be surprised if they got one placement out of the show. Probably a good $20,000 spent just for the show and no return. Hundreds of thousands more for research and development.


ZCore13

I don't think the purpose of them showing it at G2E was to get placements. They need to find someone to manufacture it if they are going to be in the casino gaming business. I think even AHIGH mentioned before he left that it would most likely be an entertainment/arcade game before it will be in casinos.

" Video poker is a game of skill. Blind people can't play it. So why should this be a hard sell for that reason "

Actually had a blind couple who would take a cab to Blackhawk in 1991 when I worked at the Eureka casino. They would place ear against the machine and listen to it. He preferred a machine with cherries on it, as hits were more frequent. This was back in days of coin droppers, so when either cashed out, their was a smile on both faces.

Trust me, game designer would figure out a way the blind could play video poker, except the market is too small.

Quote: tongni

What you can't see is that people that are bad at this will simply not play for long periods of time and will have a horrible player experience. .

This is so obvious I never even saw it. Not
only won't women play it, men who suck
at it won't do it more than a couple times
either. Real pinball machines depend on the
addicts to make their money from. Guys who
are hooked on it, young guys who get off
on being good at it. The average age of a
male casino gambler is 55, how many
guys that old do you see playing any kind
of game like this.

Alas, pinball is not NTEK's much-needed savior.

NTEK continues to tank.

Quote: MrV

NTEK continues to tank.
]

NTEK has gone from 8 cents a share
to 5 cents in the last month. Is life as
we know it over? Is pinball it's only
hope? I've heard tales of people losing
over $30 on NTEK stock. The horror,
the horror..

Quote: Buzzard

" Video poker is a game of skill. Blind people can't play it. So why should this be a hard sell for that reason "

Actually had a blind couple who would take a cab to Blackhawk in 1991 when I worked at the Eureka casino. They would place ear against the machine and listen to it. He preferred a machine with cherries on it, as hits were more frequent. This was back in days of coin droppers, so when either cashed out, their was a smile on both faces.

Trust me, game designer would figure out a way the blind could play video poker, except the market is too small.

They have found a way, its called AUTO HOLD apparently its not to popular but its around. Dotties franchise (God I hate dotties because they are all over and all exactly the same doing the same exact promotions for years, they keep snapping up failed bar locations) has it available on the software they developed on the U1 machines now available in a few local casinos, up to about 98.5%.


I told this story before but I used to always see the same really old guy around in vegas and laughlin. He had to put his face right up to the glass, look at each card and hold. I remember seeing him with a magnifying glass doing the same thing. The process took him like 2 minutes to complete 1 hand. I always got a chuckle seeing him.

I recall seeing some machines with headphone jacks, that I assumed were for low-vision players to have the cards "read" to them.

I didn't follow this thread closely so please forgive me if this is already discussed above, but did it occur to anyone else that AHigh is presenting this thing all wrong?

In it's current iteration, you pick a wager amount and a prize before the game starts. The probability of winning is a function of the size of the prize as well as how well you play pinball, right?

Most gamblers have no idea what the probability of winning should be. I mean, it's 50/50, right? Either I win or I lose.

The game would work better if the odds of winning were fixed and the prize grew prize as the player plays the game? Wouldn't that be more exciting for the gambler?

If you wanted to give him some control over his odds of winning you could use the "predict the next card off the deck" mechanism. Accurately predict red or black for a bigger win, etc.

Quote: bigfoot66

I didn't follow this thread closely so please forgive me if this is already discussed above, but did it occur to anyone else that AHigh is presenting this thing all wrong?

In it's current iteration, you pick a wager amount and a prize before the game starts. The probability of winning is a function of the size of the prize as well as how well you play pinball, right?

Most gamblers have no idea what the probability of winning should be. I mean, it's 50/50, right? Either I win or I lose.

The game would work better if the odds of winning were fixed and the prize grew prize as the player plays the game? Wouldn't that be more exciting for the gambler?

If you wanted to give him some control over his odds of winning you could use the "predict the next card off the deck" mechanism. Accurately predict red or black for a bigger win, etc.

That's what I said, but never heard a reply from the designers why they had to get all fancy with EVs and that lark... even tell the player how much it grows per 100k points or some such.

Quote: thecesspit

That's what I said, but never heard a reply from the designers

You dared to criticize their masterpiece,
of course they didn't reply.

Quote: thecesspit

That's what I said, but never heard a reply from the designers why they had to get all fancy with EVs and that lark... even tell the player how much it grows per 100k points or some such.

90% of gamblers have no idea what ev is. Don't present that, just present a big prize!!! If you can find an elegant way to allow the player to control prize size vs probability of win by all means include it but I don't think it is a good central selling point.

All I really want in this is a progressive. Idk how to incorporate that with it but it sure would make it more interesting. The general game idea does have merit but I think it needs a few tweeks.

Quote: Mooseton

All I really want in this is a progressive. Idk how to incorporate that with it but it sure would make it more interesting. The general game idea does have merit but I think it needs a few tweeks.

It had no chance from the start. It's a game for a Game room, not a high limit slot area. There are no games in a casino that can be beat with skill. It's not what a casino wants and that's not a game of chance. NTEK blew hundreds of thousands of dollars on that game and I'd be surprised if they have one sale to a casino.

ZCore13

Not sure I totally agree with you zcore. There could be a market for this....somewhere. Certainly not a group of them in their own room at a $100 minimum. But perhaps as a novelty somewhere. It would need to be more of a jackpot thing, not a "bet $100 and win $3 almost every time" kind of a thing

I think they should make it a dual option machine . A normal video slot with the pinball as a bonus feature. With the option of playing it as is.

I also think it would be a big hit online. Obviously they wanted it to look and feel like a real Pinball but It's at least a start. Perhaps it could be added to the skill games market even adding player vs player bonus pools.

This is not NTEK's first foray into pinball.

See: pinball wizard

This one seems to make some sense for pinball fans, but I see no gambling application for it.

Quote: bigfoot66

There could be a market for this....somewhere. But perhaps as a novelty somewhere.

That's the ticket, a novelty. Lots of
money to be made there. Not...

I haven't really followed this thread nor had I had the chance to play the game on the floor at G2E. However, I do agree with Z that this will most likely not be able to make it. As he had said this is more a game of skill than chance, as a result of such the amount of money possible won by the facility will obviously decrease over time as players get better at the game. This is a HUGE turn off for facilities. Even worse, IMHO, is the size of the machine combined with its low resolution amount.

The game seemingly takes a long time to play and looks like it would have to remove 1-3 machines in order to install this. This is also something that i feel will never be able to overcome.

I am making NO comment as to the fun of the game or the demographic in which this is targeting. However, I just dont see how this can overcome the aforementioned hurdles to actually get this to market (on the floor). I am no expert, but this is my opinion.

Been wondering what happened to this. Ahigh
hasn't made a post on the pinball FB page in
6 weeks. A girl asked what casino it was in
and he told her 3 days ago it 'would be a while'
before it was available to play.

https://www.facebook.com/vegas2047

I thought it was up and ready in Oct, what's
the hold up.

I'm not sure what stage the pinball's in but they are selling Sammy Davis Jr.'s videotapes

Quote: teddys

I'm not sure what stage the pinball's in but they are selling Sammy Davis Jr.'s videotapes

I remember the episode. The guy had a truckload of them and Rick had no interest in them. I wonder if that was Aaron.

Quote: Boz

Quote: teddys

I'm not sure what stage the pinball's in but they are selling Sammy Davis Jr.'s videotapes

I remember the episode. The guy had a truckload of them and Rick had no interest in them. I wonder if that was Aaron.

I saw that episode also. It was a hoot. The seller, which didnt look llke Aaron, was delusional. His opnion because Sammy owned them, they were priceless. Lol. Rick was right, private home movies of the rat pack, yea value. Sammys collection of VHS/Beta Hollywood movies , pretty worthless.

Quote: EvenBob

Been wondering what happened to this. Ahigh
hasn't made a post on the pinball FB page in
6 weeks. A girl asked what casino it was in
and he told her 3 days ago it 'would be a while'
before it was available to play.

https://www.facebook.com/vegas2047

I thought it was up and ready in Oct, what's
the hold up.

It was ready to demo at the expo. Being ready to demo and being ready to sell are world's apart in the software industry.

Was cruising AP (Associated Press, not Advantage player)
Found this article. Vegas looking at the video game world for new ideas
Maybe Ahighs pinball game may make it or something similar.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FUTURE_SLOTS_VEGAS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

I like people like ahigh thinking outside the box for new games in Vegas.
Usually all the new games are BORING, just variations of BJ and poker.
I love games, cmon Vegas. Think outside the box, looking at the video gaming world is a good start

Hey! Thanks so much for the support! What a nice message.

We have free passes for G2E 2015 for all Wizard of Vegas and Wizard of Odds readers.

E-mail info@nanotechgaming.com and I will respond with what you need to get registered.

I do ask that you those who receive the free pass information to stop by our booth and play Vegas 2047 and our new game that is currently under development.

You must register in the month of August for this to work, so do not delay in going through the process. There is no cost or penalty for no-show. So go ahead and get registered and we'll see you at G2E this year!

Everyone is invited to come to G2E and check out Vegas 2047 and our new game we are showing this year.

All that I ask if that you come by and spend 30 minutes or so checking out our new game and telling folks about it and to come check it out.

Thanks in advance!

http://nanotechgaming.com/g2e2015.php

Quote: Ahigh

Everyone is invited to come to G2E and check out Vegas 2047 and our new game we are showing this year.

All that I ask if that you come by and spend 30 minutes or so checking out our new game and telling folks about it and to come check it out.

Thanks in advance!

http://nanotechgaming.com/g2e2015.php

Thanks, Ahigh! I used your link and, if I get there at all, I will definitely come by. (not 100% sure I'm coming, but didn't want to lose the opportunity)

Quote: beachbumbabs

Thanks, Ahigh! I used your link and, if I get there at all, I will definitely come by. (not 100% sure I'm coming, but didn't want to lose the opportunity)

I hope to see you there, babs. Thanks for the pleasant response.

I also used your link. Thanks.

Have there been any changes to your game? And how does it fit into the discussions of skill based gaming?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I also used your link. Thanks.

Have there been any changes to your game? And how does it fit into the discussions of skill based gaming?

We added a skill selection thingy that has 10 possible settings (no it doesn't go to 11). 1 is pure chance, and 10 is maximum skill effect on resolution of wager. 2 through 8 are linearly blended between 1 and 10 (in increments of 11.11% more skill effect).

We added an EV meter functionality.



This video has not previously been released to the public but was made to show the new features. Since you asked, it makes sense to show you.

Thanks for everyone's interest.

Thanks Ahigh from me too, used your link for the free pass. I'll stop by and see you.

Quote: NewToCraps

Thanks Ahigh from me too, used your link for the free pass. I'll stop by and see you.

AWESOME!

Quote: Ahigh

We added a skill selection thingy that has 10 possible settings (no it doesn't go to 11). 1 is pure chance, and 10 is maximum skill effect on resolution of wager. 2 through 8 are linearly blended between 1 and 10 (in increments of 11.11% more skill effect).

We added an EV meter functionality.

This video has not previously been released to the public but was made to show the new features. Since you asked, it makes sense to show you.

Thanks for everyone's interest.

Really enjoyed the video, Ahigh, and I especially like the amendments you've made to the features and financial accessability. I wish you much success with it.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Quote: Ahigh

We added a skill selection thingy that has 10 possible settings (no it doesn't go to 11). 1 is pure chance, and 10 is maximum skill effect on resolution of wager. 2 through 8 are linearly blended between 1 and 10 (in increments of 11.11% more skill effect).

We added an EV meter functionality.

This video has not previously been released to the public but was made to show the new features. Since you asked, it makes sense to show you.

Thanks for everyone's interest.

Really enjoyed the video, Ahigh, and I especially like the amendments you've made to the features and financial accessability. I wish you much success with it.

I was genuinely surprised winning that $100 with a probability of 0.0074257. That was not scripted.

There are settings for min and max pay multiples and divisors. But aside from the video game part, the whole bet anything to win anything from pure chance is extremely entertaining to the right folks.

Ahigh, I wanted to stop by at last year's show and just got so busy it didn't work out. I already have a pass to G2E, and will certainly stop by the booth this year to check out Vegas 2047.......I do love pinball :-)!

The big picture question I have based on the video and my current understanding of how the game works is how the game adjusts the maximum pay back percentage? Is your ability to get to a 100%+ payback based strictly on how you play relative to all the play received on that particular machine? That is to say how you do vs. the other players that play that machine? I would assume so because obviously the casino can't have a machine that given a certain static skill set of a good player, would always be paying back over 100%, right?

I may be missing how the payback vs. skill in the game mechanism adjusts over time, so some clarity on that would be helpful.

I am visiting with mom for her birthday this weekend (same as last year for the regulars here).

So I should in theory have some time to go over this stuff. I'll try to make a quick video to explain with Your
visuals in a way that's easy to understand.

Anyone else interested let me know!

By the way, I wrote a few Articles on the Future of Interactive Gaming and Vegas Pinball 2047. Please enjoy them, the third also includes an exclusive interview with Stephen from Nanotech.

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/The-Future-of-Interactive-Gaming-Part-1/

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/The-Future-of-Interactive-Gaming-Part-2/

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/The-Future-of-Interactive-Gaming-Part-3/

Awesome. Yeah I've been awake now for 40 hours less a few micronaps on the plane. The writeup is great.

But I'll give some more info on how the previous play weights are stored and used to calculate payback from skill.

Weight: bet amount × skill-effect%
Score: starts at zero and increments as a result of player doing desirable action. Does not decrease. Score also assumed to be integer and will fit in 64 bits binary.

Score database: collection of weight and scores for each game played previously. Compression and optimizations are done lossless (same score value for two weights can be collapsed and weights added together). Lossy histograms may be used if more compression necessary (eg using score ranges instead of exact values to put weights into finite buckets or entries in finite histogram). Other optimization include taking weighted averages of scores and adding weight values to trim sample count by two each time too many samples exist. This is also lossy, but maintains consistent detail according to memory usage.

Beat %: percentage of total weights associated with scores smaller than player's current score.

Skill-alpha: determined delta range of payback percentages allowed. 75% to 123% payback implies skill-alpha equals 0.48 ... this is the maximum RTP that can be added to base payback amount according to games' assessment of skill from previous play.

Skill RTP awarded after play conludes: beat % × skill alpha × bet amount

Skill-alpha is reduced both by player reducing effect of skill as well as higher average HA% set by house. This limits opportunity for AP if HA% is too big or if player reduces effect of skill himself. Both affect the skill alpha before game starts to ensure that average payback is never greater than operator selection on average or less than state maximum hold on any instance of any bet.

Any time the player might otherwise receive payback that pushes average aggregate theoretical RTP over selected payback, the maximum payback for a given game may also be limited to prevent exposure in edge cases. Such cases include the theoretical case where each skilled game is 1 point higher than previous game, for example. Game still holds HA% no matter what scores are achieved, and quickly rebalances after just one game with enough weight to store advantage for later award.

I don't expect this answers every question, but maybe it answers one or two for now.

All of this is patent pending. It is actually the first software patent I have worked on. It was harder than a regular patent to do all the DD before final submission.

Hope this helps. Thanks in advance for everything!

Just saw this article and thought of Ahigh's pinball gambling

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/casinos-look-to-video-games-as-a-draw-for-millennials/ar-BBu0Uii?li=AA4Zoy&ocid=spartandhp

Just visited the pinball hall of fame
Had a great time
I love games.
No way would I play Baccarat. 3 choices. Any dummy can play. No strategy or skill. A game for idiots since its brainless
I love pinball
Their collection is fabulous with old machines and the latest machines, Avengers and Teenage ninja pinball
They also had one of the rarest games ever
Pinball Circus
Its multi level and only 2 were made.
A lot of fun

Quote: terapined

Just visited the pinball hall of fame
Had a great time
I love games.
No way would I play Baccarat. 3 choices. Any dummy can play. No strategy or skill. A game for idiots since its brainless
I love pinball
Their collection is fabulous with old machines and the latest machines, Avengers and Teenage ninja pinball
They also had one of the rarest games ever
Pinball Circus
Its multi level and only 2 were made.
A lot of fun

While all of the above are true, your decision to resurrect a thread last posted in 4 years ago (by you) is questionable to say the least.

Quote: sabre

While all of the above are true, your decision to resurrect a thread last posted in 4 years ago (by you) is questionable to say the least.

Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed today.......

Quote: rsactuary

Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed today.......

OK, let's all discuss AHigh's pinball gambling machine then since it's the topic of this thread. I thought at the time that it was a laughably terrible idea that had absolutely no chance of succeeding. It's had zero installations in the 5 years since AHigh's last post. I'd say that validates my opinion.

Aditionally AHigh was extremely hostile and arrogant towards any criticism of his prototype. He insisted that casino managers everywhere would have no issue installing a game with the name "Advantage Play" in the game's title. Again, zero installations of this revolutionary idea seem to support my opinion.

Quote: sabre

OK, let's all discuss AHigh's pinball gambling machine then since it's the topic of this thread. I thought at the time that it was a laughably terrible idea that had absolutely no chance of succeeding. It's had zero installations in the 5 years since AHigh's last post. I'd say that validates my opinion.

Aditionally AHigh was extremely hostile and arrogant towards any criticism of his prototype. He insisted that casino managers everywhere would have no issue installing a game with the name "Advantage Play" in the game's title. Again, zero installations of this revolutionary idea seem to support my opinion.

On the flip side
Just played Pinball circus
It's the holy grail of pinball
Only 2 were made
Its unique in its multi level
One of the most fun pinball machines ever with zero installations.
Pinball hall of fame has 1 of the machines. I played it and loved it.

Quote: terapined

On the flip side
Just played Pinball circus
It's the holy grail of pinball
Only 2 were made
Its unique in its multi level
One of the most fun pinball machines ever with zero installations.
Pinball hall of fame has 1 of the machines. I played it and loved it.

If you are into pinball, check out a forum called pinside. It’s more popular now than ever.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/list

I am really big into pinball and was super active there a few years ago, but I kinda fell out of the hobby when I moved out of my parents house and into a townhouse, with no space to put my machines.

Quote: sabre

OK, let's all discuss AHigh's pinball gambling machine then since it's the topic of this thread. I thought at the time that it was a laughably terrible idea that had absolutely no chance of succeeding. It's had zero installations in the 5 years since AHigh's last post. I'd say that validates my opinion.

Aditionally AHigh was extremely hostile and arrogant towards any criticism of his prototype. He insisted that casino managers everywhere would have no issue installing a game with the name "Advantage Play" in the game's title. Again, zero installations of this revolutionary idea seem to support my opinion.

The name was bad, we all knew this. The company he got involved with was all wrong. It was actually considered a table game. Other than that, it was a fantastic game ahead of its time.

Quote: AxelWolf

The name was bad, we all knew this. The company he got involved with was all wrong. It was actually considered a table game. Other than that, it was a fantastic game ahead of its time.

Lol. He considered it a table game. Nobody else did.

And how is it not in the Pinball Hall of Fame? How many other arcade games had fur on it? As a matter of fact, how many non clothing items other than the Dumb & Dumber van have fur? Fur is way underused on products.


ZCore13