Thread Rating:

Poll

5 votes (18.51%)
13 votes (48.14%)
9 votes (33.33%)

27 members have voted

Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
July 14th, 2016 at 8:59:18 AM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

And since I mentioned that there are those that one should NOT start a debate with, another relentless debater comes to mind. I think if you shot him full of bullet holes he would post from the grave. So we would solve one of the most significant and long lasting questions, "Is there an afterlife?"

I should point out that I wish no harm to the relentless, I find relentless charming at times, other times I just get tired of reading and go to sleep. I sleep a little better knowing that if/when I wake up, relentless will still be talking ;-)



My position was that AP proselytizing and justification was absolutely relentless. I answered that only to its presence.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 243
  • Posts: 7475
July 14th, 2016 at 9:02:39 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I actually did not have Paigowdan in mind when I started this thread. Dan's behavior often matches the behavior I describe, but he has always been upfront about who he is and I have never suspected him of being employed by any gaming organization to "infiltrate and influence" social media. I believe him to be a moderately successful game developer who genuinely believes in the industry that enriches him. He is anti-counting and anti-cheating but, in my mind's eye, I don't see him blindly making up excuses for casinos that are embroiled in cheating scandals.

I had several suspects in mind; one was Wizardofnothing.



Wizardofnothing is definitely not a shill for the casinos. After many long and heated mudslinging between the two of us as to who is the better AP, we ended up meeting and have shared info on a few plays.

I'm still the better AP :)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
  • Threads: 37
  • Posts: 3616
July 14th, 2016 at 9:11:49 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

My position was that AP proselytizing and justification was absolutely relentless. I answered that only to its presence.

Me thinks you missed the joke, not a problem. It wasn't about you.
I love you man, you got an extra beer on you ;-?
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
July 14th, 2016 at 9:23:47 AM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Me thinks you missed the joke, not a problem. It wasn't about you.
I love you man, you got an extra beer on you ;-?


It's 9AM, I'm drinking Starbucks....

I can be accused of fitting the bill you know, so I did want to get it in over here that the AP proselytizing side was a bit heavy at this site with little throttle on it, and that such opposing responses to it got the scrutiny as hijacking or as a troll, for not rolling that same log.

There is a sense I feel that AP is to be promoted here, that arguments against it are to be suppressed, but that WOV is a gamblers' forum, not a pure AP forum.
There's poker play, there's game design, there's dice setting, NTEK and casino reviews and experience, the whole lot.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 148
  • Posts: 18638
July 14th, 2016 at 9:44:01 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

AP isn't gambling.

Tell that the person who loses over 9k on a promotion. Tell that to the person who's in for 95% of the royal progressive amount and they get snapped off.

If AP was not gambling everyone would be doing it. Everyone, meaning guys (or gals) who are interested in making money in casinos. I know a lot of people who would give their left nut if they could make a living from the casinos.

Anytime you have money at risk and there is a chance you can lose its gambling. I dont care if you have a 99.99% chance of winning. You might be able to argue that someone playing 2 match plays one on red and one on black while they cover green are not gambling. They do risk the pit boss not honoring the match plays.

EDIT TO ADD: Perhaps arbitrage might not be gambling
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 148
  • Posts: 18638
July 14th, 2016 at 9:54:57 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Wizardofnothing is definitely not a shill for the casinos. After many long and heated mudslinging between the two of us as to who is the better AP, we ended up meeting and have shared info on a few plays.

I'm still the better AP :)

Would it be a true statement to say that you have mostly only partaken in Free play situations either though mail offer's and or whatever type of bonus free play they are offering?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
July 14th, 2016 at 9:59:49 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Tell that the person who loses over 9k on a promotion. Tell that to the person who's in for 95% of the royal progressive amount and they get snapped off.

If AP was not gambling everyone would be doing it. Everyone, meaning guys (or gals) who are interested in making money in casinos. I know a lot of people who would give their left nut if they could make a living from the casinos.


So, did they sign up for dealer's school, or for casino management classes at UNLV?

Quote: AxelWolf

Anytime you have money at risk and their is a chance you can lose its gambling. I dont care if you have a 99.99% chance of winning. You might be able to argue that someone playing 2 match plays one on red and one on black while they cover green are not gambling. They do risk the pit boss not honoring the match plays.



I tell you this:
If you know - or if you try to discern - the cards to come, then you're not gambling. AP's strive to know whether high cards or low cards are coming out next, and adjust their bets accordingly. In other words, if you know the change in odds of the hand before the hand is dealt, it isn't gambling. And it doesn't have to be 99.99%, it has to be any new advantage or disadvantage over the base game that you're privy to.

A good dice slider who can roll two Aces or a crap-12 at 99.99% accuracy, and bet that for 30:1 before he rolls, is not gambling.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
jml24
jml24
Joined: Feb 28, 2011
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 284
July 14th, 2016 at 10:05:34 AM permalink
I did not vote in the poll because I don't think any answers are appropriate. There are members openly employed by the casino industry and probably some lurking as well who could convince their bosses they scan the forums to keep up on things. So you could say they are "paid to be here." I would be very surprised if anyone is paid to be here as a specific job responsibility. To say that people are "paid to shutdown conversations" seems more like a conspiracy theory. Not to mention, the casinos would never want to shut down discussion of a lucrative play, they would rather have it out in the open so they could learn as much as possible. Most of what is discussed on this site that would be of interest to the casino industry is already well known to them.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
  • Threads: 37
  • Posts: 3616
July 14th, 2016 at 10:14:51 AM permalink
'You don't tug on Superman's cape'
And you don't wake Axel up from his nap.

Good Grief ;-)
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 243
  • Posts: 7475
July 14th, 2016 at 10:19:28 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

So, did they sign up for dealer's school, or for casino management classes at UNLV?



I tell you this:
If you know - or if you try to discern - the cards to come, then you're not gambling. AP's strive to know whether high cards or low cards are coming out next, and adjust their bets accordingly. In other words, if you know the change in odds of the hand before the hand is dealt, it isn't gambling. And it doesn't have to be 99.99%, it has to be any new advantage or disadvantage over the base game that you're privy to.

A good dice slider who can roll two Aces or a crap-12 at 99.99% accuracy, and bet that for 30:1 before he rolls, is not gambling.



From Wikipedia:

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.[1] The outcome of the wager is often immediate, such as a single roll of dice or a spin of a roulette wheel, but longer time frames are also common, allowing wagers on the outcome of a future sports contest or even an entire sports season.

The term gaming[2] in this context typically refers to instances in which the activity has been specifically permitted by law.


So, you are saying Paigowdan that you disagree with the what most of the rest of the world considers gambling?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

  • Jump to: