Having to tip dealers is ridiculous
Quote: playstkidtipping dealers is good karma....there is nothing worse then a guy up several bucks who wont tip a working guy
Does this mean you tip the jockey after a winning bet?
Just kidding. But I have known trainer who put down a bet for the jocket.
Trainers/Owners routinely put bets down for jock. Theoretically illegal.....it's horse racing....who's playing by the rules?Quote: BuzzardDoes this mean you tip the jockey after a winning bet?
Just kidding. But I have known trainer who put down a bet for the jocket.
1. Only tip when I leave the table.
2. Only tip on amounts ABOVE my buy-in (if any) that I walk away with.
3. Only tip $1 per $100 on #2.
I actually explained to a dealer once that if I did more than $1 per $100, I might as well be playing craps. The exception to #3 is if there was an "exceptional session," as in a $300 buy-in resulting in a $1000 cash-out in less than 10 minutes at a $25 DD game.
Had two dealers recently at Sands, Beth. that acted SHOCKED that they weren't tipped for dealing a Natural at a BJ table.
He dealt 3 naturals to 3 players on the same hand, but only after beating the entire table the 3 previous hands.
One of the players, betting $35, gave him a pink chip for a tip. He starts staring at me and the other guy who were dealt BJ on our bets of $50 and $30 respectively. And says "You two no good, he good."
I personally didn't care, I was down and saw no reason to tip when I was down $150.
The other guy was offended and went to the Supervisor and told him about the remark. The supervisor then reprimanded the dealer in front of the table and we all looked at each other and smiled.
The other dealer gave me 3 winning hands in a row, where I upped my bets from 50 to 100 to 150 and getting the BJ on the second bet of $100. As I'm sitting there, stacking my greens, he looks at me expecting to be tipped. Until I say, "Please continue dealing" and he just shakes his head and deals the next hand to me. I got the message and gave him a $5 chip before cashing out half an hour later.
But they are making it obvious when they want a tip, sometimes, too obvious.
They cannot go 5 minutes w/o making a tip reference. It's counterproductive.
My tip formula is on a little wallet card similar to a basic strategy card:
Hours played x avg bet x ZERO = dealer tip $$
Quote: MakingBookThe dealers at my local casino are real tip whores. It's rather annoying.
They cannot go 5 minutes w/o making a tip reference. It's counterproductive.
My tip formula is on a little wallet card similar to a basic strategy card:
Hours played x avg bet x ZERO = dealer tip $$
LOL!,.... Hey I use that same card.
As someone who has worked the floor before, this was a poor way to handle it. You don't issue reprimands in front of the guests. If there's a problem, you apologize and perhaps offer a comp or something. Reprimands should happen behind closed doors.Quote: BedWetterBetterThe supervisor then reprimanded the dealer in front of the table and we all looked at each other and smiled.
Quote: rainmanTipping is just a clever way employers pass there labor costs on to there customers.
For the most part, this is true. A business owner does strive to pay the least employees are willing to accept and provide the same to the customers. At some point in history a business owner must have paid more, but when they did, their employees were able to become competitors and realized if they did the same, their own employees would do it to them.
Someone else reported about being asked for a tip earlier. Definitely not allowed ever. I had one girl who I had probably tipped a couple hundred already for coffee at $1 per, bluntly said something about keeping the whole $5 for mother's day. I let her keep it and never ordered more than 5 drinks from her in the last 5 years because of it. I doubt she would do me a real favor;) if I asked for it.
I tip well, but don't insult me with the bs begging.
Quote: PGBusterAs someone who has worked the floor before, this was a poor way to handle it. You don't issue reprimands in front of the guests. If there's a problem, you apologize and perhaps offer a comp or something. Reprimands should happen behind closed doors.
Last month, I'm playing BJ at XYZ, sitting at first base. Dealer pitches card at me, it flies over the rail, and as it sails someplace under the chairs at the next table, I pipe up in a loud voice to nobody in particular, "Card Down!!" She immediately turns her head and screams into the pit, "*** I'M SORRY! ***"
Quote: NareedAll those of you who complain about not being responsible for paying the wages of someone else's employees, when you buy, say, a TV, do you ask Walmart, the shipping company, the TV manufacturer, the manufacturer's suppliers, and theur shipping companies not to use any of your money to pay their employees?
They are not my employees their wages should be paid directly to them from their employer. Why as a consumer should I be directly involved in the payment of their wages.
Quote: rainmanThey are not my employees their wages should be paid directly to them from their employer. Why as a consumer should I be directly involved in the payment of their wages.
You can be Steve Buscemi from reservoir dogs until you are blue in the face. Do you stiff the maid too?
The fact still remains that the custom is to tip service industry people that are paid tipped wages. The cost of the service reflects that you are pulling some of the weight for the server's wages. This is pretty universally recognized where workers... rather than selling you a physical product.. provide you a personal service of some kind.
There are places where the employer pays more and tips are less (europe, etc)... and everything involving service costs more as a result. You are just externalizing your lack of good faith onto everybody else. It's like people that don't chip in for coffee, etc.
Quote: FinsRuleDo you tip bank tellers? Cashiers at Walmart? Why aren't dealers like that?
These things are not like the others. This is for several reasons, but importantly because those occupations are paid untipped wages and the price of the service reflects it.
You'd be better off with things like the cable guy, etc. Where the service is actually individualized and personal, not just calculating what you owe when buying products.
Quote: FinsRuleMy argument is that dealers are just like cashiers/bank tellers. They are overseeing transactions and should be paid wages similar to those professions that are not supplemented by players.
So your argument is that they SHOULD (but aren't) be paid untipped wages? How nice of you to show your solidarity with them by stiffing them.
The price of the service reflects untipped wages, unlike the examples.
Quote: rainmanYes I stiff the maid too. Although sometimes they get lucky when I'm to lazy to scrape up the loose change I left on the table when I leave. You do realize there are places on this planet where tipping is offensive to the people serving you. Their view point is they don't need your money to coax them in to serving you well. They have pride they do their job well all the time for the pay they agreed to.
Well, you wouldn't want to offend the maid getting paid $4 an hour to clean up after you by tipping her. That is a hilarious excuse. It is also quite interesting that you cite to the custom in other places... almost as if custom matters. Just whichever custom costs you less is morally superior? They get the pride of a job well done from you and don't have to dirty themselves by accepting your money? LOL. I thought you were going to be honest and not pretend there is legitimacy to the no-tipping position.
And I am sure the wage is a untipped wage in those places. Don't factor that in though, it might cost you money.
It used to bother me, but these days I am glad to see automatic gratuities added to checks. I was going to tip anyway and it prevents cheapskates from either getting the service or externalizing their stingy idiocy onto me and the server.
Quote: FinsRuleDo you tip bank tellers? Cashiers at Walmart?
Ah, but when a teller or cashier gives you bad service, don't you wish you could do something to pay him back?
Quote: bbvk05Well, you wouldn't want to offend the maid getting paid $4 an hour to clean up after you by tipping her. That is a hilarious excuse. It is also quite interesting that you cite to the custom in other places... almost as if custom matters. Just whichever custom costs you less is morally superior? They get the pride of a job well done from you and don't have to dirty themselves by accepting your money? LOL. I thought you were going to be honest and not pretend there is legitimacy to the no-tipping position.
And I am sure the wage is a untipped wage in those places. Don't factor that in though, it might cost you money.
It used to bother me, but these days I am glad to see automatic gratuities added to checks. I was going to tip anyway and it prevents cheapskates from either getting the service or externalizing their stingy idiocy onto me and the server.
Maids only get $4 an hour? And I'm not approaching the topic with honesty? I cite the customs in other cultures such as Japan because I have worked many low paying jobs in this world before I became financially sound. Not one time working those jobs did I expect,want, or receive a tip. I busted my ass doing my job collected my pay on payday and I felt good about it like other people and cultures in this world.
Quote: rainmanMaids only get $4 an hour? And I'm not approaching the topic with honesty? I cite the customs in other cultures such as Japan because I have worked many low paying jobs in this world before I became financially sound. Not one time working those jobs did I expect,want, or receive a tip. I busted my ass doing my job collected my pay on payday and I felt good about like other people and cultures in this world
Yes, maids in many states are on tipped wages. Also, are you forgetting the whole illegal immigrant thing that produces an unspeakable number of maids?
What job did you make $2.15 an hour at in an area with a cost of living like the United States?
For those who aren't aware (just making sure), in the US according to Federal law (which can and is in some cases overridden by state law), "tipped" employees can be paid $2.13/hour "cash wage" and the rest can come from tips. If the employee comes in under the actual minimum wage after including tips, the employer is obligated to make up the difference.
Notably, NV does not follow any "tipped minimum wage" requirements. Minimum wage is $7.25 or $8.25 depending on insurance offered, and any tips received are on top of that.
Quote: bbvk05Yes, maids in many states are on tipped wages. Also, are you forgetting the whole illegal immigrant thing that produces an unspeakable number of maids?
What job did you make $2.15 an hour at in an area with a cost of living like the United States?
I have never made $2.15 an hour. I believe if I am not mistaken there is a federal min wage no? So your saying since unscrupulous business owners are taking advantage of illegals we should all tip them to make up for it? How about heavy sanctions for the businesses and we send the illegals to the back of the line behind the people waiting there legally. Your justifications for tipping are a reach for me.
Quote: rainmanI have never made $2.15 an hour. I believe if I am not mistaken there is a federal min wage no? So your saying since unscrupulous business owners are taking advantage of illegals we should all tip them to make up for it? How about heavy sanctions for the businesses and we send the illegals to the back of the line behind the people waiting there legally. Your justifications for tipping are a reach for me.
Our HK's are paid more than Min. Wage, but unscrupulous business owners aren't just taking advantage of illegals. There are many out there who make less than minimum wage, under-the-table, but if you have to eat, you have to eat.
Quote: rainmanI have never made $2.15 an hour. I believe if I am not mistaken there is a federal min wage no? So your saying since unscrupulous business owners are taking advantage of illegals we should all tip them to make up for it? How about heavy sanctions for the businesses and we send the illegals to the back of the line behind the people waiting there legally. Your justifications for tipping are a reach for me.
You are apparently not familiar with tipped wages and I suggest you bone up on that a bit before discussing that particular issue more.
And yes, if businesses are hiring illegals the cost of the room reflects that. Stiffing the maid who makes practically nothing is not solving anything. Also, you are just grasping at every threadbare moralistic explanation about how not giving money to people who do work for you is good for them. Can you just drop the pretense and admit that you are cheap and don't have enough honor to compensate someone for a job they do for you?
The justification is that people get paid tipped wages because the custom is the customer to cover some of the cost of doing business by paying the employees directly. That very simple concept isn't a reach for anybody but misers. Also, it's the same reason that you don't tip an owner of a restaurant if they are the ones serving you.
Rainman, why don't you go play at a casino in those cultures that abhor tipping and then we can all be happy?
FWIW, where I work the wage is under $5/hr. I can't remember exactly how much because if the tips don't bring it up to minimum wage the employer is obligated to give us the federally mandated minimum. Oh boy.
Luckily, our toke rate is usually pretty good and that's never been necessary. I'm surprised this thread keeps rolling on, we've been over this and over this. Some people are decent human beings, others... not so much. If the others can still sleep at night I guess it must be good to be them. Whatever.
Being a dealer isn't like any other service industry job I can think of offhand. Most people don't think twice about giving the CW's a white or pink chip for popping by and giving them a bottle of water they just happened to already have with them (i.e. no order placed, no drink made, no remembering who to deliver it to, etc.) but they'll sit at my table for HOURS and not give me anything but a face full of second hand smoke.
Most service industry jobs, especially the ones mentioned in this thread, the waiters, waitresses, cashiers at Walmart, etc. they don't sit with you for HOURS and cater to your every whim. When's the last time the cashier at Walmart hailed a Cocktail Waitress so you could get a free water? When's the last time the teller at the bank cleaned up the drink you spilled and told you over and over that it's "no problem, sir. We needed to change out these cards anyway."? What about the cable guy, does he put a lamer on your front porch so you can go use the potty and not lose your seat at the table? No. You don't tip those people because their job doesn't involve being your personal servant.
There are different kinds of people in the world, some understand that going to a casino is an optional, recreational activity and budget accordingly, knowing that tipping is customary. Others go to Sam's Club on a Saturday morning making the rounds of all the food sample vendors and refer to it as "going to the buffet".
Quote: bbvk05You are apparently not familiar with tipped wages and I suggest you bone up on that a bit before discussing that particular issue more.
And yes, if businesses are hiring illegals the cost of the room reflects that. Stiffing the maid who makes practically nothing is not solving anything. Also, you are just grasping at every threadbare moralistic explanation about how not giving money to people who do work for you is good for them. Can you just drop the pretense and admit that you are cheap and don't have enough honor to compensate someone for a job they do for you?
The justification is that people get paid tipped wages because the custom is the customer to cover some of the cost of doing business by paying the employees directly. That very simple concept isn't a reach for anybody but misers. Also, it's the same reason that you don't tip an owner of a restaurant if they are the ones serving you.
LOL! you clearly don't understand tipped wages not I sir. I like you, so I will enlighten you. :) It works like this. An employer can put the cost of an employees compensation onto their customers by implementing a custom of tipping leaving the business owner on the hook for a lousy $2.15 correct? However if no one tips is that employee going to make $2.15 an hour? I think not the employer is going to have to pay the fed min. So at no point is this employee ever going to make $2.15 an hour. Dont let em fool ya! :)
Quote: BeardgoatIf you don't want to tip the dealer, who makes less than minimum wage and is expected to be tipped, than don't play. If you don't want to tip the waitress, who makes less than minimum wage and is expected to be tipped, than don't go to the restaurant. If you don't want to tip the bartender, than don't go to the bar.
How about I go to all these places but I just don't tip. Last I checked not tipping wasn't against the law.
Quote: rainmanLOL! you clearly don't understand tipped wages not I sir. I like you, so I will enlighten you. :) It works like this. An employer can put the cost of an employees compensation onto their customers by implementing a custom of tipping leaving the business owner on the hook for a lousy $2.15 correct? However if no one tips is that employee going to make $2.15 an hour? I think not the employer is going to have to pay the fed min. So at no point is this employee ever going to make $2.15 an hour. Dont let em fool ya! :)
What don't you understand? The reason they are paid $2.15 an hour is because the people who use their services are expected to tip them for their service. You obviously choose not to tip because of some questionable moral standards.
Quote: rainmanHow about I go to all these places but I just don't tip. Last I checked not tipping wasn't against the law.
You don't have to tip. But don't insult us all and say things like the people who provided you services don't want to be compensated for serving you.
There are certain societies wherein one does indeed tip a bank teller, clerk or post man. Nigeria for one. Many countries require tips to government personnel such as police or clerks.Quote: FinsRuleDo you tip bank tellers? Cashiers at Walmart? Why aren't dealers like that?
In Las Vegas, ... you tip.
I tip in virtually all casinos I've entered but I tip only dealers and CWs, not every bell hop with his hand out. I tip valet parkers the first and last trip. I know I don't employ the dealers and I know that the tip will not bring me continued good luck, but "when in Rome" ... .
Quote: rainmanLOL! you clearly don't understand tipped wages not I sir. I like you, so I will enlighten you. :) It works like this. An employer can put the cost of an employees compensation onto their customers by implementing a custom of tipping leaving the business owner on the hook for a lousy $2.15 correct? However if no one tips is that employee going to make $2.15 an hour? I think not the employer is going to have to pay the fed min. So at no point is this employee ever going to make $2.15 an hour. Dont let em fool ya! :)
And how have you been fooled that the federal minimum wage is acceptable for these type of jobs?
I'd really pity casino dealers if all players had a view like yours. I don't have a job, and I still tip dealers!!!
In any event, my tipping slightly more gets noticed because some people tip slightly less and some people tip not at all, so I probably tip at about 2x-3x the mean tip per customer per hour when all of that gets considered. I imagine that if everyone tipped the, "Slightly less," (but everyone tipped something) that they wouldn't care about me as much as I would not be likely to tip 2x the mean anymore.
I think it's cool to be able to make someone happy if you are there for entertainment. I've, "Made the night," for quite a few Croupiers, as it were. I know, I know, 00-Roulette, horrible game, can't help it, like the slow pace and (typically) friendly banter between players/dealer.
Quote: BeardgoatWhat don't you understand? The reason they are paid $2.15 an hour is because the people who use their services are expected to tip them for their service. You obviously choose not to tip because of some questionable moral standards.
You guys are hung up on the $2.15 an hour number. This number is meaningless it could be one cent for all it matters. the employer has to ensure the employee receives fed min at the end of the day. So if they can't put it on the customers they have to pay compensation equal to the min wage.
Quote: rainmanYou guys are hung up on the $2.15 an hour number. This number is meaningless it could be one cent for all it matters. the employer has to ensure the employee receives fed min at the end of the day. So if they can't put it on the customers they have to pay compensation equal to the min wage.
Yeah, but the idea is that their job...in fair value...is actually worth more than minimum wage.
I'm not saying you are one of them, Rainman, because I have no idea how you feel about the casino industry. What often confuses me is the people who wish to, "Beat the casino," and complain about what an underhanded and immoral industry it is...along with the immorality of the operators...but then it is fine if said underhandedness is exercised in the form of not paying people a decent wage. It's kind of like complaining about the stingy money-grubbing House if they go to 6:5 Blackjack or are overly aggressive about back-offs, but if they are money-grubbing in the form of underpaying low-level employees, well, that's just tops!
Quote: tringlomaneAnd how have you been fooled that the federal minimum wage is acceptable for these type of jobs?
I'd really pity casino dealers if all players had a view like yours. I don't have a job, and I still tip dealers!!!
I hung sheet rock for two years for less than what a dealer makes. If your not familiar this entails lifting 80-120 pound sheets all day every day one after the other. Nobody ever tipped me :) It made me strong and damaged one of my shoulders 20yrs later it still don't work right. :) Everybody always speaks as if I'm against the employee nothing is further from the truth Its the employers paying chump change and expecting me to pick up the slack that bothers me.
Quote: rainmanI hung sheet rock for two years for less than what a dealer makes. If your not familiar this entails lifting 80-120 pound sheets all day every day one after the other. Nobody ever tipped me :) It made me strong and damaged one of my shoulders 20yrs later it still don't work right. :) Everybody always speaks as if I'm against the employee nothing is further from the truth Its the employers paying chump change and expecting me to pick up the slack that bothers me.
So you hung sheet rock for < $10/hr, 20 years ago? I would have tried to find a better job personally. But then again, I'm a "Doctor" and don't have a job either.
Quote: Mission146Yeah, but the idea is that their job...in fair value...is actually worth more than minimum wage.
If employees were replaced by machines (robots), the employer would actually be forced to pay for the machines service at actual cost. The machine can't complain, it just breaks down if the employer tries to get more service or skimp than he invests in it.
But, on the other hand, if he could pawn more costs off on the customer than pay for it himself, I'm sure the employers woud go that route.
Actually, I could see dealer robots that deal a faster game after depositing more dollars for customers who want specialized service.
Quote: rxwineIf employees were replaced by machines (robots), the employer would actually be forced to pay for the machines service at actual cost. The machine can't complain, it just breaks down if the employer tries to get more service or skimp than he invests in it.
But, on the other hand, if he could pawn more costs off on the customer than pay for it himself, I'm sure the employers woud go that route.
Actually, I could see dealer robots that deal a faster game after depositing more dollars for customers who want specialized service.
Considering how much I play casino table games, and how much I used to play online poker for real money, I would be fine with those electronic machines with decent boobs and meh faces.
Quote: tringlomaneI don't really expect "advantage players" to tip casino dealers very much, but to insist that the federal minimum wage is acceptable for them makes me think you need to either be a more profitable AP, or find a real job. Fortunately for Nevada APs, it sounds like dealers are paid min wage to start, so stiff them all you like, but that is NOT the case in every state.
Whoa! slow the bus down tring. I never said the wage (fed min) is acceptable for dealers. Infact I believe they're probably worth 18-25 an hour at the top. I just think the casino should pay them not me.
