Having to tip dealers is ridiculous
A fair salary for a dealer is probably $15-$25 an hour based on experience and location. I assume that casinos now are paying around $5, and tips make up the rest. So we're talking about $15 an hour difference to make up. At a table with 7 spots, that's $2 per person per hour.
For those who say that the dealer is providing me a service, I say that is BS. I'm providing the casino with a service - taking my money.
I don't tip cashiers, I don't tip bank tellers. I'd rather not tip waiters and waitresses. I'd rather all businesses just raise their prices and pay their employees a decent salary. Casinos make money hand over fist, and they get their customers to tip dealers. They know we are idiots.
(One exception would be cocktail waitresses bringing me a FREE drink. I have no problems tipping for a free benefit)
While I agree with the second part I quoted, I question the first part.Quote: FinsRuleI'd rather not tip waiters and waitresses. I'd rather all businesses just raise their prices and pay their employees a decent salary.
If you'd rather not tip waiters and waitresses, why do you?
When you come up with that answer you may realize why you should tip dealers - at least until the casinos pay a reasonable salary.
I always tip the cocktail waitress $1 per drink (sometimes $2).
But I NEVER, EVER tip a dealer. NEVER!
I'm sure to catch hell for that statement since it breaks one of Wizards commandments.
If someone wants to tip a dealer.....great. But don't tell me how to spend MY money.
Quote: FinsRuleWhy should casino customers have to subsidize dealer salaries?
Are you aware that once you pay money to a business it becomes their money? And that they can do as they want with it? And that they will pay expenses before doing anything else? And that includes paying the salaries of their staff?
So like it or not, you as a customer pay the salaries of the staff. Why does it bother you when you're allowed to choose how much to pay for those salaries?
Quote: DJTeddyBearWhile I agree with the second part I quoted, I question the first part.
If you'd rather not tip waiters and waitresses, why do you?
When you come up with that answer you may realize why you should tip dealers - at least until the casinos pay a reasonable salary.
My point is that casinos are making enough money that they don't need me to pay their employees salaries. The casinos should pay them more, not me.
If restaurants don't make enough money to pay their employee's salaries, I'd rather them raise prices so I don't have to tip.
Wouldn't everyone love to go to a casino, or any business that said "We pay our employees a fair salary, so please do not add gratuity. If you are especially pleased with your service, please let a manager know so that employee can be recognized"
Quote: FinsRuleIf restaurants don't make enough money to pay their employee's salaries, I'd rather them raise prices so I don't have to tip.
So rather than pay, say 15% extra as a tip, you'd be ok with a generalized 15% raise in prices, so you woulnd't have to pay 15% extra?
It said my post was too short.
So, "Yep"
Prices would go up by what the market would bear. It would make things quicker. I would know exactly what meals would cost (not that I can't add), but then when people split a meal, I wouldn't get stuck subsidizing their lack of tipping.
I see no negatives... And if a rebuttal would be "worse service" my answer would be that the business owners would ensure that their customers are happy the same way they do under the current system.
Dealers make minimum wages plus tips, and the tip salaries are not great at all except at exceptional casinosike Caesars Palace.
Tips generally come from players' winnings, and if it weren't for tips, casino operators would have to raise wages - by raising the house edge on games.
Quote: PaigowdanI tip dealers generously if they're friendly and attentive, and am happy to do it. I'm a dealer myself.
Dealers make minimum wages plus tips, and the tip salaries are not great at all except at exceptional casinosike Caesars Palace.
Tips generally come from players' winnings, and if it weren't for tips, casino operators would have to raise wages - by raising the house edge on games.
Or they'd eliminate live dealers and make everything electronic, which would stink!
I tip, and probably way more than most. But I am not a frequent casino patron, and I used to work for tips myself. I do enjoy the human interaction at the tables much more than just staring at a screen. I wouldn't play video blackjack or Let It Ride like I would video poker.
Quote: 24BingoIt doesn't matter if you think you should tip. You don't tip cashiers (except at cafés, but that really is optional) because it's not traditional. If it's customary to tip, and you don't tip, that's tantamount to stealing, and it's customary to tip dealers.
Right, it's time to change the custom. Casinos, go ahead and raise the house edge. Oh wait, you're already doing that anyway.
That's a lesson in circular logic.Quote: QuadCoreIf everyone tipped only for great service then I think that it would generally up the quality of services because everyone would strive to acheive the great service that is being given by the service staff that is getting all the tips.
Once every service person achieved the quality level of service to the point where they were all getting tips, you'd be back where we started from.
Let's not forget what T.I.P.S. stands for: "To Insure Proper Service".
Quote: DJTeddyBearLet's not forget what T.I.P.S. stands for: "To Insure Proper Service".
Fail.
Double Fail.
Behind the counter of a local diner is a picture of an oriental pagoda and some bamboo with the following phrase-
'Tipping' is not a city in China.
Quote: rainmanTipping is just a clever way employers pass there labor costs on to there customers.
Seriously? And those bussinesses where tips are not customary pay their employees with money they did not receive from their customers?
I really can't understand people who pass up, or wish to apss up, the opportunity to pay for a service what they deem it to be worth. I do that all the time. Here and there you run across a waiter or a dealer or a barista who make an extra effort to provide a better service. Such things would die if tips were not a part of the equation. Of course I always make sure to tip better when the service is better, but also to tip less when the service isn't as good.
What dealers and waiters should understand, and I think the better ones do, is that they're not entitled to a tip. Only once in my life did I not tip a waitress at least 10% (if memory serves, that time the tip approached 4%), but whether I'll tip more than that depends entirely on the quality of such service.
Quote: 24BingoIt doesn't matter if you think you should tip. You don't tip cashiers (except at cafés, but that really is optional) because it's not traditional. If it's customary to tip, and you don't tip, that's tantamount to stealing, and it's customary to tip dealers.
I'll have to check to see if there's a warrant out for my arrest.
Quote: 24BingoIf it's customary to tip, and you don't tip, that's tantamount to stealing, and it's customary to tip dealers.
C'mon Man! Seriously?!?!
Quote: IbeatyouracesSome dealers feel you're obligated to tip after receiving a good hand. One dealer inparticular I know will pay with pink $2.50 chips instead of $5.00 in hopes you will give it to her. And if you don't, she will complain under her breath, but so you can hear, about it. These people have no business working in these jobs.
Don't you love the sense of entitlement? Next time do what I do and give the pinks to a fellow player for a side bet or to the waitress even if you haven't ordered anything.
If my base bet is green, I don't appreciate being hustled with pink chips and I will put a stop to it.
Whether it's good or bad depends on whether you think a customer should have the option of slapping waiters on the face - including accidentally or through just being a stingy cheapass.
Quote: DJTeddyBearThat's a lesson in circular logic.
Once every service person achieved the quality level of service to the point where they were all getting tips, you'd be back where we started from.
Yes, and if that was ever the case, and it will never be, then everyone deserves a tip. As it stands right now, however, everyone is expecting a tip regardless of the quality of service and I think that a majority of us do tip because it is "customary" and we are too embarrassed to go against custom or we are too nice to figuratively "slap" some one in the face.
Quote: NareedOf course I always make sure to tip better when the service is better, but also to tip less when the service isn't as good.
My only issue with this is that, in most cases, the person receiving the tip doesn't actually know WHY they are receiving a tip of less than the normal amount. For all they know, this is what you would normally tip.
What I mean, if it's not clear, is say that you are at a restaurant, and the service is sub-par. You decide to tip 9.2%. Your intent is, "I'm tipping you less than the 'customary' 15% so you will know that your service was sub-par." Unfortunately, it's more likely that the wait staff will get the money and think, "What a bitch," or think, "That lady has no idea how much she should be tipping." We don't normally leave our sub-par tips with a note saying, "By the way, you didn't ask me for a refill on my drink, nor did you check on me to see if I wanted dessert, and thus I'm leaving you a lower tip than I normally would."
If you don't tip a dealer at a casino, the dealer doesn't know that you aren't tipping because they weren't friendly. They are more likely to chalk it up to the fact that you don't know dealers live on tips, or that you are just a cheap skate, or that you lost your butt and thus don't want to tip.
With regards to wait staff, I've often wondered if a good idea would be to ask to speak to the manager. Explain to the manager the lack of quality service from the wait staff, and then say, "Because of the lack of service, I'm declining to tip the wait staff. I'll leave it up to you to explain the situation and/or make up their tip out of your own pocket."
I tend to eat at places where the service is what I'm looking for. I also tend to tip better than most people. I've noticed that when a new waitress starts at a place I frequent, one of the existing waitresses will be sure to notify the new person to "treat me well." While it's nice that my reputation precedes me, we can't always expect that to be the case, especially if we're going someplace new.
Needless to say, neither my wife nor I have been back to her place of business. And yes, I tipped her 10 bucks. Her husband is one of my oldest and dearest friends so they are still on the friends list. But if something happens to that situation, I'll never speak to the bitch again.
That was thoughtful of him and what I call great service. I did take up his suggestiona nd he was right: that's a lot of pancake :) I tipped him 20%. had I rejected his suggestion, I'd have tipped him perhaps a bit less, but over 15% anyway because he tried to do more than just take the order and serve the food. It's those little things that make a visit to a restaurant better, not just whether the wiater gets the order right and is prompt bringing over drinks or extra napkins, or condiments, etc.
Quote: 24BingoIt doesn't matter if you think you should tip. You don't tip cashiers (except at cafés, but that really is optional) because it's not traditional. If it's customary to tip, and you don't tip, that's tantamount to stealing, and it's customary to tip dealers.
Wow! Brainwashing really does work. "Tantamount to stealing" huh? I don't think you understand that there is absolutely no such thing as entitlement in the world of tipping. I'll be damned if I'm going to tip dealers who complain openly about having to do their jobs, about having to deal a minimum rate table, about how their customers don't know how to play, etc., etc. I've experienced all those things. I even had a dealer tear a card so he could stop dealing a $5 BJ table in the wee hours of the morning since he knew they would have no replacement cards at that hour!! Dealers like that get nothing from me, ever. I've had dealers who made me laugh so hard I had tears coming down, and tipped them generously even though I was getting a bad beat at the time. Tipping is optional, period. If a dealer makes my experience more entertaining, or they are especially helpful, I'm happy to tip them. But I will never ever be guilted into tipping just because they "graced me with their presence".
Quote: konceptumMy only issue with this is that, in most cases, the person receiving the tip doesn't actually know WHY they are receiving a tip of less than the normal amount. For all they know, this is what you would normally tip.
That's always a possibility in places you don't go to often, or places you won't ever likley visit more than once. But anywhere you do frequent, they'll eventually get the idea.
For instance in a restaurant, I get a bill of $25 for my meal. I write in from 0-20% and the freakin' managment covers that payment to the employee.
The employee is still motivated to give good service working for up to 20% extras on each bill. Even if the employee has a lot of friends and family eating there, he's still generating a sale each time. If I really want to give more than that, I can add my own money.
The employer also gets actual feedback from each sale. He can see who is busting their ass.
edit - there would be a place indicate tip percentages, but obviously you pay the base bill, if that was not clear
Quote: 4andaKickerWow! Brainwashing really does work. "Tantamount to stealing" huh? I don't think you understand that there is absolutely no such thing as entitlement in the world of tipping. I'll be damned if I'm going to tip dealers who complain openly about having to do their jobs, about having to deal a minimum rate table, about how their customers don't know how to play, etc., etc. I've experienced all those things. I even had a dealer tear a card so he could stop dealing a $5 BJ table in the wee hours of the morning since he knew they would have no replacement cards at that hour!! Dealers like that get nothing from me, ever. I've had dealers who made me laugh so hard I had tears coming down, and tipped them generously even though I was getting a bad beat at the time. Tipping is optional, period. If a dealer makes my experience more entertaining, or they are especially helpful, I'm happy to tip them. But I will never ever be guilted into tipping just because they "graced me with their presence".
If the dealer is a dick, sure, don't tip. But tipping under ordinary circumstances is not optional - sure, there won't be legal consequences to it, but dealers, servers, waiters, bartenders - everything is set up under the assumption that they'll be tipped, so if you don't tip them without a damn good reason, that is theft. It doesn't matter that you don't think it should be that way, it is. The economy is ultimately built on abstractions, and this is obligation of private property is really no different from any other, except that it's not backed up by force. To only fulfill those social obligations that are backed up by force is almost the definition of psychopathy.
Quote: 24BingoIf the dealer is a dick, sure, don't tip. But tipping under ordinary circumstances is not optional - sure, there won't be legal consequences to it, but dealers, servers, waiters, bartenders - everything is set up under the assumption that they'll be tipped, so if you don't tip them without a damn good reason, that is theft. It doesn't matter that you don't think it should be that way, it is. The economy is ultimately built on abstractions, and this is obligation of private property is really no different from any other, except that it's not backed up by force. To only fulfill those social obligations that are backed up by force is almost the definition of psychopathy.
I'm sorry but I consider that view to be delusional. If tipping was NOT optional then it would be illegal to not give a tip, and then of course the nanny state would have to tell us what percent the tipping would have to be. The fact is: whether YOU like it or not, it IS optional, and therefore because it is not legally mandated, your argument has no leg to stand on. You say this is built on certain assumptions. Yes I agree. One of my assumptions is that if you want to be rude, obnoxious, or fail to do your job properly, you better think about another line of work. You aren't favoring a fair model of exchange of service for reward, but rather an entitlement based system that really should just be called "welfare". How is that system working out where you pay people to do nothing?
Quote: 24BingoBut tipping under ordinary circumstances is not optional - sure, there won't be legal consequences to it, but dealers, servers, waiters, bartenders - everything is set up under the assumption that they'll be tipped, so if you don't tip them without a damn good reason, that is theft.
It's always optional. But not tipping without cause is 1) socially unacceptable and 2) extremely unwise. There's an old saw about not p*** off the epople who handle your food and your money.
Morally spekaing, it is a kind of theft, because you're not paying for services received.
Quote: 24BingoIf the dealer is a dick, sure, don't tip. But tipping under ordinary circumstances is not optional - sure, there won't be legal consequences to it, but dealers, servers, waiters, bartenders - everything is set up under the assumption that they'll be tipped, so if you don't tip them without a damn good reason, that is theft. It doesn't matter that you don't think it should be that way, it is. The economy is ultimately built on abstractions, and this is obligation of private property is really no different from any other, except that it's not backed up by force. To only fulfill those social obligations that are backed up by force is almost the definition of psychopathy.
I'm a good tipper, but I think you're over-reaching a bit on this one, with all due respect. If one is a dealer, waiter or other position whereby the compensation package is inclusive to the assumption of tips, then one has entered into a labor agreement by which one acknowledges that NOT being tipped (or not having any customers that day to begin with) is a possibility, and in such event, that person is only to receive x/hour, which is typically less than minimum wage.
In other words, the employee is essentially making a bet (because it is an unknown) that he/she will make more $$$/hour as a result of being tipped than he/she would make performing a menial hourly job with a better hourly base pay. As with any bet, even with a positive expectation, (your tips + hourly exceeding the hourly on a different job) you might occasionally lose money in the short run.
Generally just a cheapskate.
And I am trying to be polite.
I don't mind being frugal. And *I* make the choice where to spend my money, just like you do.
But if you kept coming into my restaurant every day, and didn't tip? I'd give you the bestest service ever and spit on your sandwich.
So, either you are so poor you can't afford to tip, in which case, may your fortunes change soon, or you don't EVER go back to the same place twice.
And for that, everyone in server nation thanks you.
SFB
Quote: 24BingoBut tipping under ordinary circumstances is not optional - sure, there won't be legal consequences to it, but dealers, servers, waiters, bartenders - everything is set up under the assumption that they'll be tipped, so if you don't tip them without a damn good reason, that is theft.
No, it's not.
A tip is exactly that - a gift.
In the case of US, a customary gift.
Not tipping without a reason is a violation of etiquette, not property rights. It's no more stealing that coming to a BYOB party without actually bringing anything is. Inappropriate, but that's it.
Quote: P90Atip is exactly that - a gift.
Doesn't the IRS consider tips wages? (I don't know, truthfully_but I thought they did)
Or am I just mixing up your point?
Quote: rxwineDoesn't the IRS consider tips wages? (I don't know, truthfully_but I thought they did)
Or am I just mixing up your point?
I don't think he means a gift in that sense, he means it in the, "Thank you," sense.
The IRS does require that you report your wages as tips, and if there is any person who reports all of their tips of their own accord, I've got a great game for them: We each flip a coin simultaneously, wins pay 3:2 but tails for the player loses automatically and all ties go to the house.
And housekeeping especially. My sister worked in housekeeping when my niece was small and she was a single parent. I figure one of them might be in the same boat she was in.
24Bingo:
Sure you're right about not paying them to do nothing. You are doing worse than that by providing positive reinforcement tipping dealers who give you a bad experience. I'll tell you what, since you like the nanny state way of doing things, why don't you take into account that I don't tip the nasty and/or obnoxious dealers and give more when you gamble to cover this "theft"? This reasoning seems to fit right in with the welfare model we are already compelled to observe: rewarding worthless lumps by giving them free support with our tax dollars.
Quote: PaigowdanI tip dealers generously if they're friendly and attentive, and am happy to do it. I'm a dealer myself.
Dealers make minimum wages plus tips, and the tip salaries are not great at all except at exceptional casinosike Caesars Palace.
Tips generally come from players' winnings, and if it weren't for tips, casino operators would have to raise wages - by raising the house edge on games.
I disagree about raising the House Edge - there become a point of diminishing returns as far as how high the House Edge will become before the casino loses their upper level players ( I am not talking about WHALES - who will always have special rules) - I am talking about the, for example, Diamond level player at a Total Rewards casino - I, for one, do not play with anything less generous than 6D, S17, DAS, DOA, 3:2 BJ - if they start to mess with this in the high limit area - I will refuse to play at all.
Quote: 24BingoIt doesn't matter if you think you should tip. You don't tip cashiers (except at cafés, but that really is optional) because it's not traditional. If it's customary to tip, and you don't tip, that's tantamount to stealing, and it's customary to tip dealers.
YIKES!!! Tantamount to stealing???
If something is optional, such as tipping, then how can it ever be tantamount to stealing?
If you are basing tipping on winning, then you are equating the dealer with winning rather than service - the argument for tipping should be rather, if service is great, I will tip - meaning, ultimately, that whether you win or lose at the table should have no bearing on whether you tip a dealer (i.e. a friendly dealer who you thought gave excellent service and was attentive to your needs at the table (quick change, quick coloring, grabbing a waitress for you, etc.) should be tipped even if you lost your bankroll whereas a mean-spirited, curmudgeonly dealer should not be tipped even were you to win BIG)
Quote: texasplumrAnd housekeeping especially.
About that, what I don't get are people who justify not tipping housekeeping if they only stay one night. The usual reason reads "If I stay at a hotel only one night, I'm not making use of housekeeping." The only way I'd buy that is if the room wasn't cleaned and made up before they entered it. But I've never found that to eb the case. So housekeeping left you a clean room with the bed made up and toiletries/coffee replenished, and that's using their services.
Quote: 4andaKicker24Bingo:
Sure you're right about not paying them to do nothing. You are doing worse than that by providing positive reinforcement tipping dealers who give you a bad experience. I'll tell you what, since you like the nanny state way of doing things, why don't you take into account that I don't tip the nasty and/or obnoxious dealers and give more when you gamble to cover this "theft"? This reasoning seems to fit right in with the welfare model we are already compelled to observe: rewarding worthless lumps by giving them free support with our tax dollars.
I have said repeatedly that it's all right to withhold tips in the case of bad service. Stop tilting at windmills. And I reiterate, this attitude of "if the cops don't say I have to, I don't have to!" is exactly where the "nanny state" comes from.
Quote: Mission146I don't think he means a gift in that sense, he means it in the, "Thank you," sense.
Yes, I meant from the customer's standpoint. It's what the word stands for.
Quote: 24BingoI have said repeatedly that it's all right to withhold tips in the case of bad service. Stop tilting at windmills. And I reiterate, this attitude of "if the cops don't say I have to, I don't have to!" is exactly where the "nanny state" comes from.
Ok, then we have no argument. If I think a dealer doesn't deserve a tip, I can withhold it without you judging me to be a criminal. Thanks for your magnanimous gesture!
I disagree with you on the origin of the nanny state. I think it is the sum result of generations allowing their right to the pursuit of happiness be usurped a bit at a time until such point that the government believes they have the fundamental right to regulate every aspect of our lives rather than just providing us a safe place to live them. Pretty soon, we won't be able to choose what temperature our thermostats are set to, but hey, it's all for our own good, we can't be trusted to make any decisions for ourselves....like whether someone should be tipped or not. You should get in touch with your legislature. Requiring tips be just mandatory fees would make them lots more tax dollars. I'll bet they would love your idea of babysitting us in that manner.
