Thread Rating:

Poll

11 votes (15.94%)
45 votes (65.21%)
13 votes (18.84%)

69 members have voted

TumblingBones
TumblingBones
Joined: Dec 25, 2016
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 438
January 31st, 2021 at 8:47:35 AM permalink
The only thing I would add to Axel's response is that the more anti-vaxers that catch the virus the more likely it is that the virus will mutate into something more lethal. AZ's assumption that his actions can't impact others is flawed reasoning that, for some reason, he seems to cling to.
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 110
  • Posts: 7777
January 31st, 2021 at 9:11:25 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Was it used in the USA? As Ali’s I heard stories of people affected here.



It was not approved in USA until 1998 and NOT for use in pregnant. The pictures of kids with malformed arms and legs tend to be from the UK. It is used in some cancers now.

So be careful about ‘what you heard’!
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
  • Threads: 211
  • Posts: 4270
January 31st, 2021 at 9:14:18 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

If you take it you are safe and I am not affecting you.



This is incorrect. To expand on Tumbling Bones answer, the way to stop this virus is for 75% (others have suggested a slightly different number) herd immunity through a combination of vaccine and people having immunity from being infected, however long that lasts. At that point, the virus has a harder time spreading and eventually dies out.

In the absence of that, the virus will continue to mutate. THAT is what viruses do. So your decision to not get vaccines, if enough think like you, will allow the virus to keep spreading and keep mutating, to the point that there will be new strains that none of us are protected against. Almost like a whole new virus.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 110
  • Posts: 7777
January 31st, 2021 at 9:24:31 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

This is incorrect. To expand on Tumbling Bones answer, the way to stop this virus is for 75% (others have suggested a slightly different number) herd immunity through a combination of vaccine and people having immunity from being infected, however long that lasts. At that point, the virus has a harder time spreading and eventually dies out.

In the absence of that, the virus will continue to mutate. THAT is what viruses do. So your decision to not get vaccines, if enough think like you, will allow the virus to keep spreading and keep mutating, to the point that there will be new strains that none of us are protected against. Almost like a whole new virus.



I agree with everything you said. Add the fact that being vaccinated AT BEST gives you 95% immunity, so having the vaccine is NOT a guarantee of not getting COVID-19.

Above noted... but I do NOT think AZ should be forced to take the vaccine. I WILL support private businesses that REQUIRE either customers or employees to be vaccinated. As long as it is clear. Just as I would support a private business that BANNED mask wearing, as an example. Let the free market decide.
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
  • Threads: 211
  • Posts: 4270
January 31st, 2021 at 10:16:39 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I agree with everything you said. Add the fact that being vaccinated AT BEST gives you 95% immunity, so having the vaccine is NOT a guarantee of not getting COVID-19.

Above noted... but I do NOT think AZ should be forced to take the vaccine. I WILL support private businesses that REQUIRE either customers or employees to be vaccinated. As long as it is clear. Just as I would support a private business that BANNED mask wearing, as an example. Let the free market decide.



On paragraph 1. There are no guarantees, but for the most part, with some exceptions, while you still may contract Covid, it will be milder form and symptoms.

On Paragraph 2. Absolutely AZ, nor anyone should be forced to take a vaccine. This IS America. But I don't like hearing him say whether he does or not, doesn't effect me and others when it clearly does. Not getting to herd immunity through vaccine, and natural immunity as quickly as possible, will allow this virus to keep going and to mutate, including mutate right away from the vaccines. That effects us all.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 149
  • Posts: 19167
January 31st, 2021 at 11:22:02 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I agree with everything you said. Add the fact that being vaccinated AT BEST gives you 95% immunity, so having the vaccine is NOT a guarantee of not getting COVID-19.

Above noted... but I do NOT think AZ should be forced to take the vaccine. I WILL support private businesses that REQUIRE either customers or employees to be vaccinated. As long as it is clear. Just as I would support a private business that BANNED mask wearing, as an example. Let the free market decide.

No one should be forced to take the vaccine as long as they all stay away from others. And, if they happen to infect someone they should be held liable.

I wonder if he would be willing to wear a big sign saying, 'I refuse to take the vaccine' and let others deiced if they want him in their places of business or whatever.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Threads: 167
  • Posts: 9997
January 31st, 2021 at 11:46:22 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I agree with everything you said. Add the fact that being vaccinated AT BEST gives you 95% immunity, so having the vaccine is NOT a guarantee of not getting COVID-19.

Above noted... but I do NOT think AZ should be forced to take the vaccine. I WILL support private businesses that REQUIRE either customers or employees to be vaccinated. As long as it is clear. Just as I would support a private business that BANNED mask wearing, as an example. Let the free market decide.



If terrorists were killing the exact same people instead of a virus and all you had to do was get everyone to take a vaccine, what would you say?
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
TumblingBones
TumblingBones
Joined: Dec 25, 2016
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 438
January 31st, 2021 at 12:31:43 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

... but I do NOT think AZ should be forced to take the vaccine. I WILL support private businesses that REQUIRE either customers or employees to be vaccinated. As long as it is clear. Just as I would support a private business that BANNED mask wearing, as an example. Let the free market decide.


Just out of curiosity, as a medical professional would you support an enforced quarantine for somebody deemed a public health risk? Would refusing to be vaccinated for Covid constitute such a risk in your opinion?
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
TumblingBones
TumblingBones
Joined: Dec 25, 2016
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 438
January 31st, 2021 at 12:35:59 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I wonder if he would be willing to wear a big sign saying, 'I refuse to take the vaccine' and let others deiced if they want him in their places of business or whatever.


Or go the opposite way and only do business with holders of a Vaccine Passport/Certificate:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/yellow-card-vaccine-passport/2020/12/30/746c0558-40b7-11eb-8db8-395dedaaa036_story.html
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 2612
January 31st, 2021 at 12:38:29 PM permalink
The problem with “only vaccinated people” policies pre-2022 is you’d generally be discriminating against people through no choice of their own simply based on their age/health status/profession. Unless the vaccine is equal access and they do away with priority classes, you couldn’t be more discriminatory if you tried.

  • Jump to: