The Easy Vegas thread
This is kind of my specialty, covering interesting things that nobody else covers (especially things that you'd *expect* that someone else has covered).
Well, now Tuscany has removed its table games, and they're not on the strip, so normally I'd remove them, except that it's a sizable casino. The other 3 casinos that removed its table games are among the 6-smallest casinos in Vegas (as per my sortable list of Vegas casinos. Tuscany's gaming floor is lager than that of most of the downtown casinos, OYO, and Cromwell, and within spitting size of Virgin and Tropicana.
So, should I remove Tuscany as a casino per my existing definition, or should I redefine "casino" to be:
(1) Has table games, OR
(2) On the Strip, OR
(3) At least 50,000sf of gaming area
?
As to option (3), I'm not big on drawing a line at 50,000. Perhaps you could instead require an attached hotel.
Not that you asked, but I wouldn't consider the Tuscany to be on the Strip geographically. I would draw the line east of the Strip at Koval, which the Tuscany is east of. I've been there lots of times and you don't seem to see typical tourists there. However, if you're sticking with your geographical conditions, I would count it as a casino.
Here are my comments on some borderline properties, based on how I would do it:
Slots-o-fun: Not a casino because no hotel component nor tables. I personally view it as an extension of Circus Circus. When they had tables, I think they used Circus chips.
Casino Royale: Casino, because it has slots and a hotel.
OYO: Casino, west of Koval + tables and hotel.
Tuscany: No, east of Koval
Just my two cents.
I never considered Tuscany to be a Strip property. The only casino I ever counted as a Strip property that wasn't actually on the Strip was Lucky Dragon, but they didn't last long. OYO is a little farther from the Strip than Lucky Dragon was, but I could be persuaded to list it as a Strip property, if lots of members think it should be. What do you think?
Likewise, I could be persuaded that Slot-A-Fun shouldn't be listed as a casino.
Wiz, before your post, I was talking to my wife about the same idea, about maybe counting a property as a casino if they have an attached hotel. However, there still needs to be a minimum gaming area. If the grocery stores have slots, then I imagine some hotels have them also.
So, the poll questions are:
(1) Should Tuscany (with a hotel, 50k sf gaming space, but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(2) Should Casino Royale (with a hotel but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(3) Should Slots-A-Fun (with no hotel or table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(4) Should OYO (0.3 miles from the Strip) be listed as a "Strip" casino?
The fine print:
• Payment by PayPal, Venmo, Bovada credit, or Bitcoin (winner's choice).
• Answers must be meaningful (including the "why").
• I'm not required to point out failed entry from those who didn't follow the rules.
• Not eligible: Those I've blocked for insulting me, anyone who registered their WoV account on or after July 10, 2021.
• There must be at least ten entries.
• I reserve the right to make other modifications if people try to game the system or there's some other barrier to collecting meaningful data.
Quote: MichaelBluejayI'll do a random drawing for a $100 prize among everyone who answers the above 4 questions.
The fine print: Payment by PayPal, Venmo, or Bovada credit (winner's choice), answers must be meaningful, those I've blocked for insulting me aren't eligible, there must be at least ten entries, and I reserve the right to make other modifications if people try to game the system or there's some other barrier to collecting meaningful data.
Okay. If I win, just hang onto the $100 and I'll add it to the prizes for this season's NFL Picks Game, so I'll direct payment to the appropriate party at that time, if that is okay.
There should be a list of people you have blockedQuote: MichaelBluejayI'll do a random drawing for a $100 prize among everyone who answers the above 4 questions.
The fine print: Payment by PayPal, Venmo, or Bovada credit (winner's choice), answers must be meaningful, those I've blocked for insulting me aren't eligible, there must be at least ten entries, and I reserve the right to make other modifications if people try to game the system or there's some other barrier to collecting meaningful data.
Quote: MichaelBluejay
So, the poll questions are:
(1) Should Tuscany (with a hotel, 50k sf gaming space, but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(2) Should Casino Royale (with a hotel but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(3) Should Slots-A-Fun (with no hotel or table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(4) Should OYO (0.3 miles from the Strip) be listed as a "Strip" casino?
(Quote clipped, relevance)
1.) If they have slots, then yes. I would say that my reason for voting in favor of that is prior precedent. There are many locations around the country, or have been, in which Table Games are not legalized/regulated (or they simply don't have Table Games) that have still been categorized as casinos. One example is any of the (then) four casinos in West Virginia prior to Table Games being legalized and regulated.
Also, many Tribal Casinos in Oklahoma are categorized as casinos, but not all of them have Table Games. Mermaids and La Bayou (when they existed) were categorized as casinos, did not have Table Games and were barely larger than a Dotty's.
2.) See #1
3.) See #1. Prior precedent would also say that it should be categorized as a casino. The majority of Pennsylvania's casinos do not have a hotel directly attached to them. Furthermore, Binion's does not itself have a hotel, but I would like to think would still be considered a casino even if they got rid of Table Games.
4.) Was Hooters classified as Strip or Off-Strip? Isn't OYO the same physical property as Hooters? I guess I would just go back to prior precedent and classify OYO as however Hooters was classified, if so.
If I had to create a dividing line when it comes to whether or not something with no Table Games and no hotel is classified as a casino...and keep in mind that any dividing line would be arbitrary...I would go with machine count over how many square feet of gambling space. I'd probably capriciously set my standard for whether or not it is a casino at something like 50 machines...they'd also have to have non-zero in terms of food service.
I'm averse to counting tiny slots-only parlors as casinos (e.g., Dotty's, Claim Jumper), which is one reason I've shied away from counting slots-only establishments as casinos. Defining a minimum amount of gaming space or machines would be a good way to avoid that. Going with machine count over gaming area is a good idea, but it's not always easy to get machine count data (while gaming area is usually pretty easy).
I did classify Hooters as not a Strip casino, but some might have disagreed with that assessment. The question is, is a property that's 0.3 miles from the Strip close enough to be considered a Strip casino?
Quote: MichaelBluejayThanks Mission, you're entered.
I'm averse to counting tiny slots-only parlors as casinos (e.g., Dotty's, Claim Jumper), which is one reason I've shied away from counting slots-only establishments as casinos. Defining a minimum amount of gaming space or machines would be a good way to avoid that. Going with machine count over gaming area is a good idea, but it's not always easy to get machine count data (while gaming area is usually pretty easy).
I did classify Hooters as not a Strip casino, but some might have disagreed with that assessment. The question is, is a property that's 0.3 miles from the Strip close enough to be considered a Strip casino?
Thanks for the entry!
I agree with not counting slots parlors as casinos, so I have mostly tried to avoid it on listing pages that I have done. If already published listing pages have them at under 100 and nobody answers the phone on the first try (or doesn't even know enough to offer an estimate), then I'll usually not list a place. That mostly just happened with a few places in Oklahoma not getting listed for that reason...I wanted verification that they had at least fifty.
Of course, I think I did list one place with thirty, but that was a reward for them answering the phone.
I'd probably just call and ask for an estimate and screw it if they don't answer. I seriously doubt that listed machine counts are ever precise, and if they are, it's probably not for very long.
I don't know on Nevada, but some states (Commercial Casinos) will have precise counts as to how many machines a location is licensed to have. In those cases, I'll typically use that number and put a note to the effect.
I would either list Hooters as, "Off-Strip," or, "Near-Strip," or you could list them as, "Strip," with an asterisk.
Quote: MichaelBluejay-snip-
(1) Tuscany (with a hotel, 50k sf gaming space, but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(2) Should Casino Royale (with a hotel but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(3) Should Slots-A-Fun (with no hotel or table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(4) Should OYO (0.3 miles from the Strip) be listed as a "Strip" casino?
Casino with hotel should be included.
Include them if they have or have ever had table games. Things change, tables could return (or not).
East of I-15 and a block or two from Las Vegas Blvd is "The Strip" in my opinion. I would include South Point and M Resort as well.
Other things:
Wild Wild West may deserve a posting? Haven't been there in a while, but they had tables/sportsbook/machines/hotel.
On the map page you updated one with the Virgin location but the second still lists Hard Rock (with x on it, RIP). Resorts World is complete, so that one can be added.
GL
Quote: MichaelBluejayI'll do a random drawing for a $100 prize among everyone who answers the above 4 questions.
The fine print: Payment by PayPal, Venmo, or Bovada credit (winner's choice), answers must be meaningful, those I've blocked for insulting me aren't eligible, there must be at least ten entries, and I reserve the right to make other modifications if people try to game the system or there's some other barrier to collecting meaningful data.
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) No, off-strip casino
Sure.Quote: Mission146Okay. If I win, just hang onto the $100 and I'll add it to the prizes for this season's NFL Picks Game, so I'll direct payment to the appropriate party at that time, if that is okay.
Not entered, b/c answers aren't complete. (Didn't include the "why".) I edited the rules above to be clearer that answers must be complete, and also that I'm not obligated to point out when someone's entry fails due to not following the rules.Quote: DRich1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) No, off-strip casino
Quote: MichaelBluejaySo, the poll questions are:
(1) Should Tuscany (with a hotel, 50k sf gaming space, but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(2) Should Casino Royale (with a hotel but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(3) Should Slots-A-Fun (with no hotel or table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(4) Should OYO (0.3 miles from the Strip) be listed as a "Strip" casino?
1) Yes. Large enough size, ticket writers in the sports book. It has a lot of the amenities (hotel, dining, spa, etc) as any comparable place, while gambling is still its most noteworthy piece.
2) Yes. It is in the name. It has a highly visible marquee on the Las Vegas Strip, and there is nothing about it that would suggest it is not a casino.
3) No, it should be included with Circus Circus.
4) No, the Strip is Las Vegas Blvd. from Mandalay Bay to Sahara (I could be convinced to include Stratosphere)
All the decisions of whether something qualifies as a casino or not should be entirely editors decision, without any hard and fast rules. Any disagreements or controversy is a good thing. I think I am much more liberal in my definitions; if a primary reason people would go there is to gamble and there is something that makes it more than just a "slot parlor", I will usually lean to "yes". I would say yes to Wild Wild West, no to Alamo, and maybe to Aztec Inn.
To save me time, if I thank your post, you're entered. If I didn't, I found it lacking (or I haven't read it yet).
"Casino" to me means a place offers a variety of gambling options. These properties do not appear to offer the requisite diversity.
Neither does a place with a single blackjack table.
Neither does a racetrack with some VLT's.
Neither does a bingo hall with a poker room.
A tribal property with bingo, table games, OTB, and slots... yes. Casino.
"Slot Casino" would be a fair characterization.
A hotel, a spa, a bowling alley, a go-kart track, a theater for live entertainment... would not alter the fundamental gambling characteristic of a property. ("Resort" is the word here.)
I think the magic number is 3. Slots, VP, and ETG's* get lumped together, house banked card tables, live roulette/Big 6, live craps with actual dice the players toss, keno (not machine), bingo (with and without electronic cards, but class II slots are still slots), sports, race, live poker, other... I think you need 3.
4: Sure.
It appears that it is closer to several "strip" properties than any number of adjacent "strip" properties are to each other.
When walking away from the strip, you only cross driveways, not any streets before getting there. Their driveway is right next to a strip property's.
*Electronic table games: no chips? It's a slot machine, even if there's a ball orbiting a robotic roulette wheel, or a dealer controlling a few player terminals.
My opinion on these matters doesn't amount to a hill of beans, and I accordingly decline any prize award.
About half the entrants have declined the prize if they win. Seems like the WoV membership demographic skews financially independent.
Quote: MichaelBluejaySeems like the WoV membership demographic skews financially independent.
... or unduly paranoid about disclosing the sort of information required to receive such a bonus.
Good luck with your project!
2. YES - On the strip and it seems like table games are disappearing more & more every week.
3. NO - Should be left off or a note added to Circus Circus.
4. YES - Right next to a casino that is on the strip.
Well, Bitcoin is untraceable by the average person. I'll edit my earlier post to add Bitcoin as a payment option.Quote: Dieter... or unduly paranoid about disclosing the sort of information required to receive such a bonus.
Quote: MichaelBluejayThanks, TomG.
To save me time, if I thank your post, you're entered. If I didn't, I found it lacking (or I haven't read it yet).
Please go like my post so you don't mistakenly miss that I have already been entered, if you would be so kind. I appreciate the EV added to the Picks Game! I have no problem accepting my entry since I won't be getting the money anyway, otherwise, I'd just have you donate it to something.
I'm sorry, I swore I thanked it right away, but apparently I didn't. I just went back and thanked it. Sorry about that.Quote: Mission146Please go like my post so you don't mistakenly miss that I have already been entered, if you would be so kind.
On the page "Getting from the airport to your hotel" it has visitor fares.
I thought the 108/109 buses are local and therefore $2 fare for one way.
Is it because the bus goes to the airport RTC charges more?
Quote: MichaelBluejayI'm sorry, I swore I thanked it right away, but apparently I didn't. I just went back and thanked it. Sorry about that.
It’s all good!
Whoops, good catch, thanks! I fixed it.Quote: whatmeOn the page "Getting from the airport to your hotel" it has visitor fares.
I thought the 108/109 buses are local and therefore $2 fare for one way.
Back in the day, you could buy a pass on a residential bus (for less $) and it still worked on the Strip bus. I suspect that's still the case. Can anyone confirm?
The pass prices, depending on whether you buy them on a residential bus or a Strip bus, are:
Single ride: $2 / (n/a)
2-Hour Pass: $3 / $6
24-Hour Pass: $5 / $8
3-Day Pass: (n/a) / $20
7-Day Pass: $20 / (n/a)
15-Day Pass: $34 / (n/a)
30-Day Pass: $65 / (n/a)
Quote: MichaelBluejay
Back in the day, you could buy a pass on a residential bus (for less $) and it still worked on the Strip bus. I suspect that's still the case. Can anyone confirm?
"All residential passes are valid on Strip & Downtown Express and Deuce on the Strip with a local I.D."
https://rtcws.rtcsnv.com/mobile/geoFares.html
Quote: MichaelBluejay
So, the poll questions are:
(1) Should Tuscany (with a hotel, 50k sf gaming space, but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(2) Should Casino Royale (with a hotel but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(3) Should Slots-A-Fun (with no hotel or table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(4) Should OYO (0.3 miles from the Strip) be listed as a "Strip" casino?
1) Yes, because,
a. many people don't play tables
b. a quick Google define casino "a public room or building where gambling games are played"
c. From memory (2008) I liked the place
d. It has a casino license
2) Yes, see a, b, and d above
3) If the place has it's own casino license then yes otherwise it's technically part of Circus Circus and should be listed as part of that casino. Maybe do Curcus Circus/Slots-A-Fun
4) No, it's not on the strip
I would change what makes the list as most of the casinos listed are not in the Incorporated City of Las Vegas. Might try Downtown, Vegas Strip, or within x distance to the strip.
2) Yes. It's Casino Royale.
3) I'd call it an annex of Circus Circus as it hasn't offered table games for years.
4)I'm inclined to say yes.
Okay, now all we need to know is whether the drivers actually card you. Anyone?Quote: whatme"All residential passes are valid on Strip & Downtown Express and Deuce on the Strip with a local I.D."
YES, Definitely yes. For some people, it might just be what they are looking for, IE, great pools, big rooms, far enough off the Strip to Avoid the Porn Slappers and other assorted "ner-do-wells". And your website can show them as an option that those people might not have been aware of. We used to stay there when our kids were still kids and when their prices were reasonable.
(2) Should Casino Royale (with a hotel but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
YES, also Definitely yes. It is obviously a small casino, but so what ? It is right on the Strip, the paytables are pretty good, and to their credit they still do the $ 20 loss rebate, "as advertised with no strings attached". Just play it through once. Also, a lot of tourists don't even play table games, right ? I would guess a majority do NOT.
(3) Should Slots-A-Fun (with no hotel or table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
YES - I would say YES because MOST people would consider it to be a casino. And EASY VEGAS is supposed to help people, right ?
(4) Should OYO (0.3 miles from the Strip) be listed as a "Strip" casino?
YES. I think I have walked about 1/4 mile getting from registration to my room in some hotels ( the Tropicana comes to mind ) ! If you want to put an asterisk by it, that's OK too of course.
I do object to some of the time-share places several miles south of Mandalay Bay calling themselves "STRIP" properties, that is just plain mis-leading.
Quote: MichaelBluejaySo, the poll questions are:
(1) Should Tuscany (with a hotel, 50k sf gaming space, but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(2) Should Casino Royale (with a hotel but no table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(3) Should Slots-A-Fun (with no hotel or table games) be listed as a casino or not? Why or why not?
(4) Should OYO (0.3 miles from the Strip) be listed as a "Strip" casino?
(1) I’m a bit pedantic about this and I’d consider any property with an active gambling license to be a casino. Yes, that would include things like bar with VP and apparently some grocery stores have slots in Nevada.
(2) Yes. Has a gambling license.
(3) Yes. Has a gambling license.
For 1-3, my preferred approach is to have a filter for “has table games”. I also don’t think that by defining casino broadly you’re obligating yourself to write about every tiny 2 slot machine bar in Nevada.
(4) I’d say no. For me this is more about how I think of Vegas and it feels like a meaningful detour from the strip to get there. And it doesn’t have an address on the boulevard. I think of it like Ellis Island. Close but not on the strip. I suspect it’s probably even a bit farther from MGM Grand than Ellis Island is from Ballys.
Hey Tinman:Quote: TinMan(4) I’d say no. For me this is more about how I think of Vegas and it feels like a meaningful detour from the strip to get there. And it doesn’t have an address on the boulevard. I think of it like Ellis Island. Close but not on the strip. I suspect it’s probably even a bit farther from MGM Grand than Ellis Island is from Ballys.
I've walked from Bally's Sports book side entrance to Ellis Island many times ( an easy walk unless the temps are too far over 100 deg ), and I think it is a bit FURTHER than MGM to *OYO.
* Depending of course, on which PART of MGM you start at to get to OYO ( Hooters ).
Quote: JohnnyQHey Tinman:
I've walked from Bally's Sports book side entrance to Ellis Island many times ( an easy walk unless the temps are too far over 100 deg ), and I think it is a bit FURTHER than MGM to *OYO.
* Depending of course, on which PART of MGM you start at to get to OYO ( Hooters ).
That is an interesting point I hadn’t considered. When I walk Ballys to Ellis, I go through those doors next to the food court (seems like the same ones you mentioned). That’s the closest possible spot. When I’ve been to Hooters/Oyo, it’s been walking from outside MGM Grand on the strip itself rather than a shorter route through the casino. I don’t like MGM Grand so I typically don’t walk through it but I can certainly see the casino route being shorter
AND air conditioned ! We went to MGM once this trip for their lunch buffet, and also another time because we bought monorail passes and our friends wanted to go to NYNY.Quote: TinManI don’t like MGM Grand so I typically don’t walk through it but I can certainly see the casino route being shorter
Quote: JohnnyQI think I have walked about 1/4 mile getting from registration to my room in some hotels
This is a fine standard to apply to marginal cases.
Shorter walk from a "Yes, definitely" checkin desk to another property than to your room on that property, uhh... yeah.
It's all semantics but I'd say anything west of Koval has a claim to being on the strip.
About ten years ago, the El Cortez bought a parking lot that touched Las Vegas Blvd. and tried to claim it was now a Strip property. I don't think it still makes that claim.
Hey c'mon now, Bluejay has to be pulling his hair out by now !Quote: billryanIt's all semantics but I'd say anything west of Koval has a claim to being on the strip.
How about NORTH of the Las Vegas Sign and up to the Strat, but you have to be within eyesight of the the actual Strip sidewalk and within a 5 minute walk East/West walk ? ? ?
We had a looooong walk down a corridor to our room at Bellagio once, it reminded me of the opening credits to GET SMART.
Yeah, but there are no non-strip casinos between I-15 and the Strip, and the only casino between LVB and Koval is OYO.Quote: billryanEast of the 15 and west of Koval works for me.
South Point is not on the Strip, is it ?
9777 S Las Vegas Blvd
Las Vegas, NV 89183
Quote: JohnnyQCase closed-ish ?
South Point is not on the Strip, is it ?
9777 S Las Vegas Blvd
Las Vegas, NV 89183
When they had a Comic Convention there about five years ago, they made a big deal of it being on the strip. As did the short-lived comic shop that opened in the mini-mall across from it.
Cancun used to advertise it was a South Strip location.
Quote: JohnnyQCase closed-ish ?
South Point is not on the Strip, is it ?
9777 S Las Vegas Blvd
Las Vegas, NV 89183
I still consider South Point on the strip.
Help me out here Bluejay !
Quote: JohnnyQSure, why not, it's just a short walk/drive from Mandalay Bay:
Help me out here Bluejay !
It is just a 20 minute jog assuming a 4 minute mile.
South Point is not on the Strip, by any reasonable definition. I asked about cases that could go either way, but with South Point, there’s no gray area. It’s not a Strip property.Quote: JohnnyQHelp me out here Bluejay !
Below are the results. Thanks to everyone for helping out with the survey!
| Member | Tuscany | Casino Royale | Slots-A-Fun | OYO |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wizard | casino | casino | - | ? |
| Mission | casino | casino | casino | - |
| Keenone | casino | casino | casino | Strip |
| DRich | casino | casino | casino | - |
| TomG | casino | casino | - | - |
| Dieter | - | - | - | Strip |
| joedol | ? | casino | - | Strip |
| whatme | casino | casino | - | - |
| billryan | casino | casino | - | Strip |
| JohnnyQ | casino | casino | casino | Strip |
| TinMan | casino | casino | casino | - |
| Results | 90% casino | 91% casino | 45% casino | 50% Strip |
Based on this, I'll continue to list Tuscany as a casino.
Casino Royale was already listed as a casino because of my earlier criteria of "has table games, OR on the Strip".
Per that criteria, Slots-A-Fun was listed as a casino and I'll continue that, even though slightly fewer than half of voters think it should be a casino. That one is pretty much a coin toss, so I'm making an editorial decision.
Same deal for whether OYO is a Strip property. If voting had been overwhelming for OYO as a Strip property, I would have listed it as such, but when opinion is split right down the middle, I'll continue to list it as "Close to the Strip".
Quote: TinMan(1) I’m a bit pedantic about this and I’d consider any property with an active gambling license to be a casino. Yes, that would include things like bar with VP and apparently some grocery stores have slots in Nevada.
(2) Yes. Has a gambling license.
(3) Yes. Has a gambling license.
For 1-3, my preferred approach is to have a filter for “has table games”. I also don’t think that by defining casino broadly you’re obligating yourself to write about every tiny 2 slot machine bar in Nevada.
(4) I’d say no. For me this is more about how I think of Vegas and it feels like a meaningful detour from the strip to get there. And it doesn’t have an address on the boulevard. I think of it like Ellis Island. Close but not on the strip. I suspect it’s probably even a bit farther from MGM Grand than Ellis Island is from Ballys.
I guess another thing that I should have pointed out is that, by volume and by revenue, the vast majority of casino visitors play slots. For that reason, I don't even think it should be asked, "Does not having Table Games disqualify a place from being a casino," but rather, "Would NOT having slots (these places would be called, 'Card Rooms,' in other jurisdictions) mean that you shouldn't brand yourself as a casino?'"
I agree with #1 above if we restrict that notion only to Nevada. Slot parlors in West Virginia, for example, cannot legally call themselves casinos whatsoever, offer any sort of players club or offer ANY incentive to gamble at all aside from free coffee, soda/pop/sodapop/coke/fizzycarbonatedwater-caffeineoptional-beverage and little snacks. They can offer other free foods if they choose (I know of one that has or had free little pizza) or food discounts (one parlor in a restaurant has a special menu and also offers/offered 50% off of the regular menu, if playing.)
But, they definitely can't call themselves, 'Casino.' 100% illegal.
