Obamacare
Quote:The penalty will be applied to your annual taxable income for each month you don't have health insurance
Quote:the fee for not having insurance in 2014 is $95 per adult and $47.50 per child or 1% of your taxable income (up to $285 for a family), whichever is greater.
I wonder if an individual is considered a family.
I understand that if I really want to get out of paying the tax hike that I can jump through all sorts of hoops to do so, but I'm going with the insurance since I'm not getting any younger. I just would have preferred it to be my choice, not the government's. A $7,000 a year tax hike -- which must be paid with money that has already been taxed -- is a bit excessive.
member, not $95 a month as JB believes.
And yet you lavish us with your attentions. Thanks guy :)Quote: Sabretom2It just doesn't seem possible anyone with any degree of self respect or intellectual honesty could defend this fiasco we call Obamacare. Defenders and advocates at this point are simply trolls, undeserving of our attention.
Quote: Sabretom2It just doesn't seem possible anyone with any degree of self respect or intellectual honesty could defend this fiasco we call Obamacare..
Especially when there is nothing to defend yet. Nobody
has ever used Obamacare, not one claim has been
filed and we have no idea what's coming. What doctors
will do when they see how much they're paid, how long
will the wait be to get treatments because of doctors
who are opting out or quitting.
Doctors don't have to accept patients that go thru the
exchanges, this is going to seriously cripple the doctors
who do. My own doctor won't take them, he's going
the consierge route, direct care for a monthly fee. Way
cheaper than insurance.
Quote: AZDuffmanThat the GOP tried to stop it is not in dispute because Obama himself stated as much on any number of occasions.
In all fairness, obama stating something doesn't make it true. In fact, based on percentages, it most likely means it's a lie.
Another idiot who just wanted free health care. *facepalm*
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/does-the-obamacare-penalty-actually-have-teeth--144740030.html
Looks like that 59% should talk to s2dbaker. He'll set them straight. lol!
Quote: Sabretom2It just doesn't seem possible anyone with any degree of self respect or intellectual honesty could defend this fiasco we call Obamacare. Defenders and advocates at this point are simply trolls, undeserving of our attention.
The two groups of people who are being helped (not counting the insurance companies) are those caught up in the Medicaid expansion and those with certain chronic conditions. Pretty much all the defense is coming from those two arguing their pocketbooks.
*facepalm*
Quote: Beethoven9thDoctor’s Office Spends 2 Hours On Hold With Health Insurer For Patient’s Surgery Authorization
*facepalm*
And they hung up on them. All kinds of stories
of people being turned away from ER's because
they can't prove they have insurance for Xrays
and tests. The fun has only begun. Wait till you
call your doc and are told they have an opening
in 2 months.
Quote: CBS Chicago“I made a phone call. I pushed the right button and got a live person,” she said.
Pace, a stroke survivor, said she hasn’t had good insurance since her husband lost his job when the mining machinery plant where he worked closed in 2005. The Affordable Care Act means better health care for her and her husband, she said
Quote: s2dbakerThe Affordable Care Act means better health care for her and her husband, she said
For every story like that, there are a hundred of the
kind. Soon to be a thousand. For every winner there
are thousands of losers.
I hope that you're right EvenBob because I would like to see you be right about something, anything at least once in your life. But as with all predictions you've made before, this one will just be another in your long unbroken string of wrongness.Quote: EvenBobFor every story like that, there are a hundred of the
kind. Soon to be a thousand. For every winner there
are thousands of losers.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: Beethoven9thDoctor’s Office Spends 2 Hours On Hold With Health Insurer For Patient’s Surgery Authorization
*facepalm*
And they hung up on them. All kinds of stories
of people being turned away from ER's because
they can't prove they have insurance for Xrays
and tests. The fun has only begun. Wait till you
call your doc and are told they have an opening
in 2 months.
Welcome to the Canadian system!
Still waiting for the rainbows and unicorns.
Maybe we can get curling on tv now?
I wish we had the Canadian system. It's a single payer system and far better at taking care of their citizens. Did you know that Canadians on average live longer than their neighbors to the South? By over two years! Just imagine how much longer that they would last if they didn't have to put up with -20 degrees Celsius!Quote: AZDuffmanWelcome to the Canadian system!
Still waiting for the rainbows and unicorns.
Maybe we can get curling on tv now?
They have much more access to healthcare up there and with better results. If it takes suffering the curling on TV then I'll suffer the curling on TV to get single payer healthcare down here.
Quote: s2dbakerI wish we had the Canadian system. It's a single payer system and far better at taking care of their citizens. Did you know that Canadians on average live longer than their neighbors to the South? By over two years! They have much more access to healthcare up there and with better results. If it takes suffering the curling on TV then I'll suffer the curling on TV to get single payer healthcare down here.
Why anyone would want single payer is a mystery to me. Why would you want NO CHOICE in something? I suppose you think with single payer you just show up and everything you want is taken care of? No way that will happen. You will still face procedures being denied, but with single payer you have no other choice in the matter.
Save me the "they live 2 years longer" meaning health care is better in Canada. Plenty of other factors go into life expectancy than the health care system.
Competition breeds better service. I remember a single-phone system, when we got competition we got better rates and services.
Single-payer? Who is John Galt?
Like nasty bitter cold weather, back bacon and poutine? What would be a mitigating factor?Quote: AZDuffmanSave me the "they live 2 years longer" meaning health care is better in Canada. Plenty of other factors go into life expectancy than the health care system.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhy anyone would want single payer is a mystery to me. Why would you want NO CHOICE in something? I suppose you think with single payer you just show up and everything you want is taken care of? No way that will happen. You will still face procedures being denied, but with single payer you have no other choice in the matter.
Single payer doesn't necessarily mean a lack of choices. It just guarantees a minimum level of service which everyone may have. Countries like England though still have private insurers and there are also private concierge type doctors. Canada does outlaw private insurance but that's again an aspect of their law not all of single payer systems which can be incredibly varied.
Quote: AZDuffman
Save me the "they live 2 years longer" meaning health care is better in Canada. Plenty of other factors go into life expectancy than the health care system.
Absolutely. Actual longevity has changed very little
in hundreds of years. If you're reasonably healthy
all your life, you'll live a long time in 1500 or 2014.
It's when they throw all the other crap in there that
we get skewed life expectancy numbers. There's a
big difference between life expectancy and life span.
And comparing Canada to the US is ridiculous. We have
a population that is 13% Black. Canada is 2.5%. It's
a fact that Blacks die sooner than Whites and that skews
all of our stats when compared to other Western countries.
Quote: s2dbakerLike nasty bitter cold weather, back bacon and poutine? What would be a mitigating factor?
Racial and ethnic factors, suicide rate, auto and other accidental deaths, murder rate, and plenty of other things any intellectually curious person would consider.
Quote: EvenBobAbsolutely. Actual longevity has changed very little
in hundreds of years. If you're reasonably healthy
all your life, you'll live a long time in 1500 or 2014.
It's when they throw all the other crap in there that
we get skewed life expectancy numbers. There's a
big difference between life expectancy and life span.
And comparing Canada to the US is ridiculous. We have
a population that is 13% Black. Canada is 2.5%. It's
a fact that Blacks die sooner than Whites and that skews
all of our stats when compared to other Western countries.
Mexico just surpassed us as the most obese country in the world. We are number 2.
With the second most obest people as a percent of the population and being invaded with illegal immigrants from a cointry that is the most obese....Canada should be kicking ours asses by more than 2 years
Alot of people on welfare are obese.....they get free medical care...do you think the free medical care keeps their weight down?
Quote: LarrySMexico just surpassed us as the most obese country in the world. We are number 2.
With the second most obest people as a percent of the population and being invaded with illegal immigrants from a cointry that is the most obese....Canada should be kicking ours asses by more than 2 years
They are not really beating us, watching the CFL just makes it seem longer.
Quote: LarryS.Canada should be kicking ours asses by more than 2 years
And Canada has 5 mil people less than Calif,
it's nothing to compare anything to.
much more industry, brings more health issues. Canada doesnt have to deal with as much traffic congestion and ensuing air quailty issues. Toxic dump sites, factories spewing out all kinds of crap. And all the obesity here and from mexico.
and still canada is only beating us by only 2 years,,,AMAZING
that is definately a slam against their healthcare system
You show your health card, and you are insured, even if you are unemployed, in poverty, or make a million dollars a year. Pretty simple. It's something I never have to worry about. My wife is sick with the flu. One more day, and she goes to our MD. We book our appointment online. If our doctor's office is closed, then she goes to any open clinic or shows up at the ER where she knows she'll be handled by priority and not when she shows up. And if she happens to pass out, we call 911, and the ambulance shows up and takes her to the local ER (any hospital) where she will be treated.
Even if you are not insured, you are still treated, and your bill when you leave is about 20% of the equivalent American bill.
Our system's so rotten, we're dying earlier, or mortality rates are much higher, and we're really so bad off.
Keep on believin' what you want to believe though AZ.
Quote: s2dbakerLike nasty bitter cold weather, back bacon and poutine? What would be a mitigating factor?
It's the beer. Seriously, the beer, and five pin bowling, not to mention the curling.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhy anyone would want single payer is a mystery to me. Why would you want NO CHOICE in something? I suppose you think with single payer you just show up and everything you want is taken care of? No way that will happen. You will still face procedures being denied, but with single payer you have no other choice in the matter.
Save me the "they live 2 years longer" meaning health care is better in Canada. Plenty of other factors go into life expectancy than the health care system.
Competition breeds better service. I remember a single-phone system, when we got competition we got better rates and services.
Single-payer? Who is John Galt?
I'm trying to figure what I don't have a choice for? I can choose any doctor who is taking patients. I can choose to go to any hospital. I can pick a specialist for my condition if I don't like the one i'm assigned. I can go to any lab for my blood tests. I don't have to worry about who is in network or which hospital takes my insurance. i don't have to strategize when to see my doctor based on my annual deductable or my out-of-pocket or what's left in my health savings account. What choice am I losing?
Quote: boymimboI'm trying to figure what I don't have a choice for? I can choose any doctor who is taking patients. I can choose to go to any hospital. I can pick a specialist for my condition if I don't like the one i'm assigned. I can go to any lab for my blood tests. I don't have to worry about who is in network or which hospital takes my insurance. i don't have to strategize when to see my doctor based on my annual deductable or my out-of-pocket or what's left in my health savings account. What choice am I losing?
LOL.."I'm trying to figure what I don't have a choice for? I can choose <b>any doctor who is taking patients.</b>"
Quote: boymimboI'm trying to figure what I don't have a choice for? I can choose any doctor who is taking patients. I can choose to go to any hospital. I can pick a specialist for my condition if I don't like the one i'm assigned. I can go to any lab for my blood tests. I don't have to worry about who is in network or which hospital takes my insurance. i don't have to strategize when to see my doctor based on my annual deductable or my out-of-pocket or what's left in my health savings account. What choice am I losing?
We have a group of people in this country that has free healthcare like you. They have had it for generations. Its the people on welfare. And if you think these are the healthiest people in our country...then you are wrong.
If the govt limited te price the general public can be charged for home furnaces....it wouldnt be long before the quality of the furnaces would deteriorate.
After all people need furnaces to sray alive in cold states. People can die without a furnace. They should by govt decree have to pay no more than 400 dollars for one....and max 25.00 for installation/
This is what is going to happen to our healthcare system
wow I still cant get over that canada only beats us by 2 years in longevity. With all our toxic polution, crowded cities,obesity epidemic, high hypertension rates in african american...geez...what is wrong with the canadian healthcare system
Quote: anonimussLOL.."I'm trying to figure what I don't have a choice for? I can choose <b>any doctor who is taking patients.</b>"
Good job! I actually missed that!
What he does not understand is I remember the days of one phone company, one cable company, and misc other only-one providers. In every case the service was terrible and they had an attitude of "the customer should be glad we exist and let them buy our service!" If anyone thinks single-payer will not end up the same way they are living in Fantasyland.
--Good
--Fast
--Cheap
You may pick any two when it comes to health care or anything else for that matter.
Quote: anonimussLOL.."I'm trying to figure what I don't have a choice for? I can choose <b>any doctor who is taking patients.</b>"
I can choose any doctor I want, anywhere. At least
I could before Obamacare. I could go the the Mayo
Clinic if I wanted. Not now, the Mayo Clinic doesn't
accept Obamacare.
Canada's life expectancy is 80.80 years in 2010.
Mexico's life expectancy in 2010 was 76.89 years.
Cuba's life expectancy in 2010 was 78.96 years. And Cuba sucks. How does it feel to have a health system where you can't even be expected to live longer than an average Cuban?
I can twist statistics too.
Quote: boymimbo
I can twist statistics too.
The one thing you CAN'T do, is compare a country like
CA to a country that has 10 TIMES+ it's population.
That's just ludicrous. If CA joined the US, it wouldn't
even be our most populated state. It's not even apples
and oranges, it's apples and grapes.
+1Quote: AZDuffmanI remember a single-phone system, when we got competition we got better rates and services.
Sadly, nobody even remembers those days.
Quote: EvenBobThe one thing you CAN'T do, is compare a country like
CA to a country that has 10 TIMES+ it's population.
That's just ludicrous.
Libs do that on the drug issue, too. They always bring up the Netherlands, and their population is like half of Canada's! *facepalm*
Quote: TwirdmanSingle payer doesn't necessarily mean a lack of choices. It just guarantees a minimum level of service which everyone may have. Countries like England though still have private insurers and there are also private concierge type doctors. Canada does outlaw private insurance but that's again an aspect of their law not all of single payer systems which can be incredibly varied.
Waiting for the inevitable shift...
Quote: AZDuffmanGood job! I actually missed that!
What he does not understand is I remember the days of one phone company, one cable company, and misc other only-one providers. In every case the service was terrible and they had an attitude of "the customer should be glad we exist and let them buy our service!" If anyone thinks single-payer will not end up the same way they are living in Fantasyland.
--Good
--Fast
--Cheap
You may pick any two when it comes to health care or anything else for that matter.
McMedical Care.
Quote: anonimussLOL.."I'm trying to figure what I don't have a choice for? I can choose any doctor who is taking patients."
+1
Quote: boymimbo
I can twist statistics too.
We are aware of this and in fact pointed out that it is what you do anytime you point to life expectancy and say it must be because of the health care system alone.
Report: Thousands fled Canada for health care in 2011
A Canadian study released Wednesday found that many provinces in our neighbor to the north have seen patients fleeing the country and opting for medical treatment in the United States.
The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011, as wait times increased 104 percent — more than double — compared with statistics from 1993.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/report-thousands-fled-canada-for-health-care-in-2011/
Quote: BozJust received my January billing for our Health Care through the Chamber of Commerce. Just my wife and I on the policy and it went from $670 a month to $800. Of course they are blaming it on Obamacare. Oh well, at least some more so called "poor" will get free HC and being good to others lazier than yourself is what it is all about.
And the deductible?
Quote: anonimussThe nonpartisan Fraser Institute
http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/report-thousands-fled-canada-for-health-care-in-2011/
Quote:The Fraser Institute is a Canadian think tank. It has been described as politically conservative[1][2][3] and right-libertarian.[4][5] Its stated mission is "to measure, study, and communicate the impact of competitive markets and government intervention on the welfare of individuals."[6]
Forbes has referred to the think tank as libertarian.[11] The New York Times has described the Institute as libertarian[12] and conservative.[2] The Calgary Herald called it conservative,[3] the Langley Times classified it as right-of-center libertarian,[5] while humanist philosopher Kai Nielsen[13] referred to the Fraser Institute as an "extreme right-wing libertarian think tank."[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Institute
"It's like somebody's telling you that you can buy this car, and you've paid for the car, but you can't have it right now," said Jane Pelton. Rather than leave daughter Emily in pain and a knee brace, the Ottawa family opted to pay $3,300 for arthroscopic surgery at a private clinic in Vancouver, with no help from the government.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-health-care-in-crisis/
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-gratzer/canada-health-care-system-ranking_b_2612868.html
The huffington post...another conservative think tank.
