Obamacare
Quote: anonimussAmericans who flock to Canada for cheap flu shots often come away impressed at the free and first-class medical care available to Canadians, rich or poor. But tell that to hospital administrators constantly having to cut staff for lack of funds, or to the mother whose teenager was advised she would have to wait up to three years for surgery to repair a torn knee ligament.
"It's like somebody's telling you that you can buy this car, and you've paid for the car, but you can't have it right now," said Jane Pelton. Rather than leave daughter Emily in pain and a knee brace, the Ottawa family opted to pay $3,300 for arthroscopic surgery at a private clinic in Vancouver, with no help from the government.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-health-care-in-crisis/
George Bush still had about 3 years more as President when this one was written. It's just a little out of date.
Quote: anonimussLOL liberals doing a knee jerk reaction and babbling the standby "blame George Bush" when we're discussing the efficacy of nationalized health care in another country
Yep, and it doesn't surprise me who went off on that tangent. lol
Quote: anonimussLOL liberals doing a knee jerk reaction and babbling the standby "blame George Bush" when we're discussing the efficacy of nationalized health care in another country and they get confused by facts.
If you're saying I blamed George, learn to read better.
Canadian health care is far from perfect. Absolutely. We wait for some procedures. Some people go to the US for treatment if they can afford it and don't feel like waiting. There are doctors who don't accept new patients because they are overloaded. And there are very high end treatments that aren't covered at all where your only choice is to travel abroad.
It's kind of like the 878,000 Americans who travelled abroad for medical care in 2010, according to Deloitte in order to save money, not to save on waiting. Their choice is to not have the surgery at all or travel somewhere where it is affordable. Insurance companies are in on the act. In Florida and California there are insurance plans where you travel to other countries for insured medical care in order to keep costs down.
Bam!
Quote: boymimbo
It's kind of like the 878,000 Americans who travelled abroad for medical care in 2010, according to Deloitte in order to save money, not to save on waiting. Their choice is to not have the surgery at all or travel somewhere where it is affordable. Insurance companies are in on the act. In Florida and California there are insurance plans where you travel to other countries for insured medical care in order to keep costs down.
Hmmm, travel to save money vs travel to get care at all. I know which system I would rather live under.
"Sorry, young lady, I know you ripped your knee apart and will be in pain for three years. But you should feel better that no dirty insurance company is making a PROFIT as a part of the system!"
Though you know what, AZ, I'll give you this. Canadian health care has its issues. You don't want the Canadian health care system in the United States, especially from what you are coming from. Those 80% who were previously insured will immediately have a backlash when they find out they have to wait a month for an MRI or six months for an operation. I agree with you. It's the shits, really.
We claim that we have this great health care system but really our only better quality indicators are (1) cost and (2) life expectancy. Our wait times SUCK. If the wait times were alot shorter and there were more doctors giving us more access to primary care, we'd be great! But we lose alot of our talent to the neighbor to the south which always creates a void here.
Maybe Germany or Japan's system would fare better for the US where they get quick service with small deductables.
That same Commonwealth report that the HufPost and other sources cite ranks the US dead last (behind Canada) in quality and effieciency. Clearly the American system needs an overhaul, but ObamaCare is the devil.
Quote: boymimboIt's the same choice. You either get care (because you travel elsewhere) or you don't (because you can't afford it or you don't want to wait). And you're basing your three years from one story.
No, it is different to travel to save money vs to get care denied you by the system. Back in about 2000 when I was considering LASIK I considered getting it in Canada because of how strong the USD/CAD was in my favor. Ooooh, a person shopping for health care based on price! Heaven forbid!
The fun will continue next week! This is when the low-information voters start going to to get care and find out that not only was the coverage not "free" but they cannot use it like the buffet at Golden Corral they think it will be.
It appears that Canadian "insurance" does not given that option at all, right? In that event, what does Canadian insurance allow if one is traveling overseas and requires health care?Quote: boymimboTheir choice is to not have the surgery at all or travel somewhere where it is affordable. Insurance companies are in on the act.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt appears that Canadian "insurance" does not given that option at all, right? In that event, what does Canadian insurance allow if one is traveling overseas and requires health care?
As far as I know if one desires to travel he can purchase travelers insurance before he leaves and this will cover health care cost.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt appears that Canadian "insurance" does not given that option at all, right? In that event, what does Canadian insurance allow if one is traveling overseas and requires health care?
First of all, there is no such thing as "Canadian Health Insurance" as I can tell. Maybe Boymimbo can correct me, but it seems that each province has its own plan with its own set of rules. OHIP (Ontario) paid me a reasonable amount which was close to my 'usual and customary fee'. A friends mother visiting from Calgary, Alberta, had a mess of a time trying to use her health insurance, and essentially ended up paying cash, $6,000, for a 'minor' medical procedure and never got paid from her Alberta insurance.
Quote: TwirdmanAs far as I know if one desires to travel he can purchase travelers insurance before he leaves and this will cover health care cost.
What the heck does this have to do with the discussion? Have you even been following the damn thread???
Quote: Beethoven9thWhat the heck does this have to do with the discussion? Have you even been following the damn thread???
Sancho asked "In that event, what does Canadian insurance allow if one is traveling overseas and requires health care?" I answered that they purchase travelers insurance to cover health care cost. Are you following the thread.
Quote: TwirdmanSancho asked "In that event, what does Canadian insurance allow if one is traveling overseas and requires health care?" I answered that they purchase travelers insurance to cover health care cost. Are you following the thread.
READ THE DAMN POST HE WAS REPLYING TO!!!! AND READ THE WHOLE THING, NOT JUST WHAT WAS QUOTED!!
Quote: boymimboThe logic here is unfathomable.
The message from the thinktank on this forum: don't go to college -- you'll be indoctrinated as a liberal, and we can't have that. Instead, take a trade, because America needs tradespeople. I guess we should just stop people from going to college to prevent that from happening, and you'll turn the nation into a bunch of semi-literate tradespeople with no sense of innovation. Good move.
What an elitist attitude that is boymimbo. If you don't go to college you are "semi-literate with no sense of innovation".
There are 10's of millions of people without post secondary education that are intelligent, innovative and successful. Just as there are millions of people with post secondary education that are dumber than the average tractor. Education does not correlate with intelligence level. There are dozens of reasons that people don't complete a post secondary degree or even high school graduation. Most of these reasons have nothing to do with intelligence
Seeing the picture more clearly, what Obamacare really does is royally screw anyone who doesn't work for a large company. People who work for big companies get low-cost health insurance, and they get to pay for their premiums with pre-tax dollars.
If you don't work for a large company, you have to pay the premiums with after-tax dollars, and you can't even itemize the cost of the premiums as a deduction to put you on equal footing with those who pay their premiums with pre-tax dollars. In prior years you could deduct anything medical that exceeded 7.5% of your income, but now the bar has been raised to 10%. This completely screws anyone paying for health insurance out of their own pocket.
Doing the math reveals that I need to earn $853 in order to be left with $583 after taxes. So that $583/month premium is actually an $853/month premium.
So my choices are:
1) Pay $10,236 a year for health insurance, or
2) Pay a $285 penalty and wing it
Yeah, I'll pay the penalty and take my chances, thanks.
is, if you're a doctor, private practice is illegal. You
can't go into business and accept cash only patients
like you can here. My doc takes patients on a contract
basis and refuses Obamacare. In CA that will mean
you go to jail. Swell place.
Quote: JBYeah, I'll pay the penalty and take my chances, thanks.
Don't blame you. Just make sure that you aren't owed a refund for this year, and you won't even have to pay that stupid penalty. *thumbs up* ;)
I think you've chosen wisely.Quote: JBSo my choices are:
1) Pay $10,236 a year for health insurance, or
2) Pay a $285 penalty and wing it
Yeah, I'll pay the penalty and take my chances, thanks.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt appears that Canadian "insurance" does not given that option at all, right? In that event, what does Canadian insurance allow if one is traveling overseas and requires health care?
Nothing. You buy travel insurance for your trip and you better declare your preexisting conditions to the insurance company before you go so that they can take more money from you. Most employees have an "extended health plan" (or you can buy privately) that covers things that your provincial coverage doesn't, such as prescription coverage (in some provinces), dental care, semi-private rooms, rehab, counselling, and out-of-province travel.
Quote: JB
2) Pay a $285 penalty and wing it
Just arrange where you have no tax refund
and they have no way to collect it. They
can't bill you or put a lein on bank accounts
or property, they can't do anything if you
don't get a refund. And they can't change
the law without congress and that will never
happen. Screw em.
Quote: kenarmanWhat an elitist attitude that is boymimbo. If you don't go to college you are "semi-literate with no sense of innovation".
There are 10's of millions of people without post secondary education that are intelligent, innovative and successful. Just as there are millions of people with post secondary education that are dumber than the average tractor. Education does not correlate with intelligence level. There are dozens of reasons that people don't complete a post secondary degree or even high school graduation. Most of these reasons have nothing to do with intelligence
Actually, of course intelligence does correlate with education level, but of course there are plenty of exceptions to the rule (Dubya got his degree from Yale, right?). My point I was making was that many people on this forum feel that going to university will turn you into a liberal, which we can't have. And don't give me the BS that that average tradesperson is more intelligent than the average university graduates. Their skill sets are different, but it is clear from a literacy and standard IQ standpoint that university graduates are more intelligent.
Heaven forbid I should come up with a simple fact.
If you want to go to University, go. If you want to learn a trade, learn a trade. Don't let the anti-liberal crowd here scare you away from going to college. I'm sitting about 3 feet away from my lovely wife, my very Conservative and Republican UC Berkeley graduate (in Arts, none the less).
Quote: boymimboAnd don't give me the BS that that average tradesperson is more intelligent than the average university graduates
I don't think anyone here is saying that. Personally, I don't believe that either group is more intelligent than the other.
Quote: kenarmanEducation does not correlate with intelligence level.
Absolutely. Eons ago I dated four school teachers
in a row, all had a masters in education. All were
dumber than tree stumps. How they got thru college
is beyond me. One of them said it was easy, just
do what they want and they give you a degree.
Memorization to pass tests in not intelligence.
Quote: EvenBobThe most insidious and odious thing about Canada
is, if you're a doctor, private practice is illegal. You
can't go into business and accept cash only patients
like you can here. My doc takes patients on a contract
basis and refuses Obamacare. In CA that will mean
you go to jail. Swell place.
Actually, all doctors are in private practice. They can take cash (and do) from those who are uninsured and visitors, as well as the provincial Workman's Compensation Board patients. They can take payments for items that are not covered (TB skin tests, for example). The problem is that if you do decide to do direct billing you can't register with your provincial health plan. Since 99% of the market is covered under the provincial health care plan, that leaves no market for doctors to operate. There are a few doctors in Canada who buck the system, like the one in Vancouver mentioned in that article.
Please give me a source where the a doctor in Canada went to jail for operating an illegal practice.
...and he doesn't know squat about the constitution!!
Quote: boymimboActually, all doctors are in private practice.
Canada's restrictions on the private health care sector are said to “rival those of Cuba and North Korea” and are seen by some as an important factor in limiting access, choice and quality in health care. The impression left by such criticism is that the legal system traps patients and physicians in an eroding public plan.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC80881/
Moreover, the electorate generally sees health care as issue #1 when it comes to deciding what party to vote for, over the economy, taxes, and other factors. And the health care system in Canada ebbs and flows depending on where you live.
Nonetheless, the article you cite states that private practice is not illegal, but it is heavily, heavily discouraged because the govenrment doesn't allow you to bill higher than the public rate (in 7 of the 10 provinces).
Quote: boymimbo
Moreover, the electorate generally sees health care as issue #1 .
They hate it, just like in the UK. I saw a
person from London the other day saying
there is something on the front page of
the paper every day about the disaster
health care has become. They can't believe
we're going that route, when they want
to get out of it.
Quote: Beethoven9thWasn't Obama supposedly a constitutional law professor?
...and he doesn't know squat about the constitution!!
obama refuses to release his grades as well. It's funny how obama touted he's all about the "middle class" and now he's been exposed as a pathological liar and the middle class is getting slaughtered by obamacare he's suddenly now all about the "poor".
Quote: anonimussobama refuses to release his grades as well.
What is it with the need to know his grades he graduate magna cum laude from Harvard law school so top 10% and a rough estimate of his GPA is between 3.5 and 4.0.
Quote: TwirdmanWhat is it with the need to know his grades he graduate magna cum laude from Harvard law school so top 10% and a rough estimate of his GPA is between 3.5 and 4.0.
I believe that it is his undergraduate grades that are in question. As a classmate of his, I can tell you that back then a B to B+ was an average grade at Columbia. So if he was an average student he would not want the public to know he was a "B" student. I knew he went to Harvard Law but have never heard the Magna Cum Laude part. Can you quote a source?
Quote: boymimboNothing. You buy travel insurance for your trip and you better declare your preexisting conditions to the insurance company before you go so that they can take more money from you. Most employees have an "extended health plan" (or you can buy privately) that covers things that your provincial coverage doesn't, such as prescription coverage (in some provinces), dental care, semi-private rooms, rehab, counselling, and out-of-province travel.
Actually Canadian medical will pay for out of country treatment up to amount they would have paid if you were treated in Canada. This is usually only a small fraction of what you were billed when out of the country, particularly in the USA.
Quote: SOOPOOI knew he went to Harvard Law but have never heard the Magna Cum Laude part. Can you quote a source?
"Barack Obama did not graduate with honors at Columbia and so his acolytes make much of his time at Harvard where he was president of the Harvard Law Review and where he graduated magna cum laude. Many ignore that his magna cum laude honors may well not been magna cum laude today. Under the system in place when Obama was a student, only one third of a graduating class did not receive honors. For the class of ’95, a whopping 71.3 percent of the student body graduated with honors, doubling the number of students graduating with honors since 1972 and tripling the numbers receiving magna cum laude. Receiving magna cum laude may be impressive, but it is less so, if one in six students win it."
Obama is hiding not only from his grades at
Columbia, but from the radical nature of the
courses he took.
Quote: SOOPOOI believe that it is his undergraduate grades that are in question. As a classmate of his, I can tell you that back then a B to B+ was an average grade at Columbia. So if he was an average student he would not want the public to know he was a "B" student. I knew he went to Harvard Law but have never heard the Magna Cum Laude part. Can you quote a source?
Yeah I just don't get it he clearly he did fantastically well in Harvard so does his undergrad grades really matter. All undergrad matters for is to get into grad school. Oh and here is a mention by Harvard Crimson of him graduating Magna Cum Laude http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/1/19/obama-left-mark-on-hls-days/ heres another http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/316vvyov.asp . Also president of the law review.
Quote: TwirdmanYeah I just don't get it he clearly he did fantastically well in Harvard so does his undergrad grades really matter. All undergrad matters for is to get into grad school. Oh and here is a mention by Harvard Crimson of him graduating Magna Cum Laude http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/1/19/obama-left-mark-on-hls-days/ heres another http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/316vvyov.asp . Also president of the law review.
Not that it really matters, but perhaps his Columbia grades wouldn't normally gain entrance to Harvard Law, and his protectors don't want to explain how he only got in as an Affirmative Action candidate, which is most likely the case. I will release my transcript upon request.... if I can find it....
Quote: SOOPOO...and his protectors don't want to explain how he only got in as an Affirmative Action candidate, which is most likely the case.
+1
Quote: boymimboActually, of course intelligence does correlate with education level, but of course there are plenty of exceptions to the rule (Dubya got his degree from Yale, right?). My point I was making was that many people on this forum feel that going to university will turn you into a liberal, which we can't have. And don't give me the BS that that average tradesperson is more intelligent than the average university graduates. Their skill sets are different, but it is clear from a literacy and standard IQ standpoint that university graduates are more intelligent.
Heaven forbid I should come up with a simple fact.
If you want to go to University, go. If you want to learn a trade, learn a trade. Don't let the anti-liberal crowd here scare you away from going to college. I'm sitting about 3 feet away from my lovely wife, my very Conservative and Republican UC Berkeley graduate (in Arts, none the less).
Of course the standard IQ of university grads is higher, it is one of the criteria to get into university. If the criteria was mechanical aptitude or common sense the populations of the university would be different. The standard IQ exams were developed by university educated people who of course would develop exams that were based upon their own bias.
You need to go back to the basis of schools to understand this bias. Schools were for the elite only, not the masses. Then as now the elite think that they have more intelligence and have worked harder to get where they are which is often far from the truth. This attitude is of course passed down to most university grads.
Now the post secondary schools we have are an industry. Their income is based upon bums in seats not seeking out the truly gifted but drop the standards to the lowest common denominator. The complete system has become as big a drain on our resources as universal medical.
If it isn't the grades, it's the Kenyan birth certificate. If it's not the Kenyan birth certificate then it's the BENGHAZI!!!!! It'll always be something.Quote: TwirdmanWhat is it with the need to know his grades he graduate magna cum laude from Harvard law school so top 10% and a rough estimate of his GPA is between 3.5 and 4.0.
Quote: s2dbakerIf it's not the Kenyan birth certificate then it's the BENGHAZI!!!!!
It's sad that 4 Americans (including a sitting ambassador) getting killed in Benghazi means nothing to you.
Quote: Beethoven9thIt's sad that 4 Americans (including a sitting ambassador) getting killed in Benghazi means nothing to you.
Or to Shrillary.
Quote: TwirdmanYeah I just don't get it he clearly he did fantastically well in Harvard .
Did you miss the part where 2/3 of Harvard students
in those days graduated 'with honors'? Kinda takes
away from doing 'fantastically well' when 2 out 3
did it. When Obama was a college teacher, his students
rated him very average, and detached. He was so
boring many have no memory of him at all. He was
an average student and teacher, and a less than average
president. He's a living example of the Peter Principle.
Quote: s2dbakerIf it isn't the grades, it's the Kenyan birth certificate. If it's not the Kenyan birth certificate then it's the BENGHAZI!!!!! It'll always be something.
Heaven forbid we question Dear Leader.
Quote: Beethoven9thIt's sad that 4 Americans (including a sitting ambassador) getting killed in Benghazi means nothing to you.
It was a terrible event but its not the scandal people make it out to be. Every president going at least as far back as Carter has had some embassy or consulate attacked and attacks where Americans were killed. Bush Jr had Karachi, Uzbekistan, and a few others also obviously you had 9/11 these weren't scandals though they were tragedies. Clinton also had Karachi and he also had the first world trade center bombing or the Oklahoma city bombing. Reagan had a massive attack in Beirut killing over 60 people.
Again why were none of these worthy of being called scandals, and none were, and yet Benghazi is suddenly the worst thing ever. It's not nothing but in the grand scheme of things it also isn't as significant as some want to make it out to be.
Because the Kenyan birth certificate thing didn't work out.Quote: Twirdmanwhy were none of these worthy of being called scandals, and none were, and yet Benghazi is suddenly the worst thing ever.
Quote: Twirdmanand yet Benghazi is suddenly the worst thing ever.
Suddenly? Are you joking?
Quote: TwirdmanEvery president going at least as far back as Carter has had some embassy or consulate attacked and attacks where Americans were killed.
Bush Jr...
Clinton...
Here we go again with Shifty, guys!
Sorry, Shifty, but no sitting ambassadors died under Bush or Clinton!
