Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1223
  • Posts: 20327
October 22nd, 2016 at 3:02:37 PM permalink
Quote: socks

Some poker players are known to be degenerate gamblers in other areas. That might be the default expectation.



Good point. Stu Ungar comes to mind. However, I would still be suspicious if he asked to play for large stakes at anything, out of an abundance of caution.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1223
  • Posts: 20327
October 22nd, 2016 at 3:07:12 PM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

2. I do repeatedly ask this question when Bob Dancer writes about his latest video poker escapades. A casino should know that if he's playing, that can't be any good for them. The only answer I've ever been able to come up with is that Dancer strikes a Mephistophelian bargain with the casinos where he plays, offering "consulting" when needed, as in, outing other players.



Please be advised that Bob Dancer is a member of the forum now and I'll be put in a bad position again if he feels insulted over that post.

In Bob's defense, I doubt he names names and I think such accusations such not be made without evidence. My own opinion is some casinos like the South Point know their promotions can be abused by the best of players, and accept that as a cost of doing business, in the interests that they gain much more through recreational players doing those same promotions.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
October 22nd, 2016 at 3:16:35 PM permalink
South Point is the El Cortez (Sweaty Spaniard) of the south.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
Joined: Jul 27, 2016
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 943
October 22nd, 2016 at 3:30:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Please be advised that Bob Dancer is a member of the forum now and I'll be put in a bad position again if he feels insulted over that post.

In Bob's defense, I doubt he names names and I think such accusations such not be made without evidence. My own opinion is some casinos like the South Point know their promotions can be abused by the best of players, and accept that as a cost of doing business, in the interests that they gain much more through recreational players doing those same promotions.



Yeah, but it's not like they don't have an itchy trigger finger against players who have the temerity to get lucky for a week or two, never mind those who actually consistently play at an advantage. I think it's a legitimate question to ask: why do they let him play, when they toss players who cost them maybe a twentieth as much as he does?

I really don't know what the answer is. I was hypothesizing, in that casinos (particularly the South Point) generally don't like winners and there has to be an explanation for why Bob is allowed to play there, or ANYWHERE for that matter. I base what I said on anecdotal evidence that many years ago, the Orleans hired Bob as a "consultant," and within a few days, many players had their slot cards revoked, and a few were barred permanently. Again, I don't have any documentation to support this, as it was so long ago--just the complaints of many people I knew (a couple of whom weren't APs at all BTW).

If that is or has been his function, I don't think it matters whether he names names or not. Simply providing the casinos with the proper algorithms to identify and destroy APs would do damage enough. And yes, South Point would probably tolerate his action in return for this service. I hasten to reiterate that I'm speculating here. It could simply be that he gives video poker classes there and elsewhere, and they might think it would be viewed unfavorably if they didn't let him play there.

So we can't really know, and that includes by asking Bob directly, as he would have no reason or inclination to tell us the whole story, or even a part of it for that matter. But whatever speculations I come up with have been prompted by his repeated reportage of his escapades in his column, where he reports weekly on how he marched into some casino with a couple of hundred grand in hand to pillage and burn. I KNOW that we mere mortals wouldn't be allowed to do that, even if we had the requisite bankroll. Hell, I've been barred for having the supreme gall to play .25 FPDW!
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
October 22nd, 2016 at 3:46:14 PM permalink
Possibly the same reason why MGM, who owns Borgata, and sued Ivey in this case is still paying him to use his name on their Aria high limit poker room.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 4920
October 22nd, 2016 at 3:47:02 PM permalink
Quote: RS

AFAIK, using marked cards is not cheating. Marking them, however, is cheating.




I'm not sure that marking cards is illegal in Nevada. I believe it is only illegal if there is intent to cheat.



Paragraph 7 of NRS 465.070"

[It is unlawful:] To manipulate, with the intent to cheat, any component of a gaming device in a manner contrary to the designed and normal operational purpose for the component…”
Living longer does not always infer +EV
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8545
October 22nd, 2016 at 4:00:32 PM permalink
You're right, I should have included "with intent".

Although, I don't think what you quoted has to do with marking of cards, since marking a card does not alter its operational purpose or use. The cards are still fully functional, even while marked. Unless one wants to argue the operational purpose of the backs of the card is to conceal the front-side of the card.


RE: Joe's speculation(?) about BD....I've heard the same before from multiple sources (ie: outing APs). I wonder if BD would clear the air and let us know what the situation is there.
# Свободный Натан
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
October 22nd, 2016 at 6:02:23 PM permalink
Quote: RS

RE: Joe's speculation(?) about BD....I've heard the same before from multiple sources (ie: outing APs). I wonder if BD would clear the air and let us know what the situation is there.


Not to mention the Revel $100,000 you can't lose promo.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 214
  • Posts: 5465
October 22nd, 2016 at 6:49:13 PM permalink
I dont know bob dancer personally but i doubt casinos would let him play in return for info. I see most casinos (and most businesses) always wanting to solve these issues on their own. They r more afraid of him using it to his own advantage

More likely he is well recognized as someone with books and a radio show who can do damage thru negative publicity while delivering positive publicity if they let him play. Ie they are looking at his play as the cost of positive advertising
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 131
  • Posts: 16741
October 23rd, 2016 at 12:07:48 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I dont know bob dancer personally but i doubt casinos would let him play in return for info. I see most casinos (and most businesses) always wanting to solve these issues on their own. They r more afraid of him using it to his own advantage

More likely he is well recognized as someone with books and a radio show who can do damage thru negative publicity while delivering positive publicity if they let him play. Ie they are looking at his play as the cost of positive advertising

Negative publicity directed at casinos has never really been helpful to the AP community. Just ask Mike. They don't care, especially since they lump AP's in with blatant cheaters.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

  • Jump to: