2023 WoV Picks Game DISCUSSION Thread
February 21st, 2024 at 7:31:00 AM
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I appreciate that. I've been running this contest for over a decade and all prizes have eventually been paid out. I again apologize for the delay, though it's not the first time there have been slight delays in the course of the running of this contest. I've admitted as much before.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
February 21st, 2024 at 7:36:10 AM
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As per a previous arrangement, Mission is holding my money until next year to use as an entry fee. If he tries to give me an extra $25 I’ll (figuratively) slap him in the face!
DJChaps….. I understand your point…. But the bigger picture is this…. A friend to us all, Mission, has devoted HIS time and HIS money to a contest for which he gets NO compensation. He is owed a little slack.
I suggest you figure out something in your life that if a sweepstakes winning of a few hundred dollars is delayed you don’t need to impugn a guy (Mission) who did a good deed for all of us.
DJChaps….. I understand your point…. But the bigger picture is this…. A friend to us all, Mission, has devoted HIS time and HIS money to a contest for which he gets NO compensation. He is owed a little slack.
I suggest you figure out something in your life that if a sweepstakes winning of a few hundred dollars is delayed you don’t need to impugn a guy (Mission) who did a good deed for all of us.
February 21st, 2024 at 7:40:57 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOAs per a previous arrangement, Mission is holding my money until next year to use as an entry fee. If he tries to give me an extra $25 I’ll (figuratively) slap him in the face!
DJChaps….. I understand your point…. But the bigger picture is this…. A friend to us all, Mission, has devoted HIS time and HIS money to a contest for which he gets NO compensation. He is owed a little slack.
I suggest you figure out something in your life that if a sweepstakes winning of a few hundred dollars is delayed you don’t need to impugn a guy (Mission) who did a good deed for all of us.
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This is well put.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
February 29th, 2024 at 10:53:16 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOAs per a previous arrangement, Mission is holding my money until next year to use as an entry fee. If he tries to give me an extra $25 I’ll (figuratively) slap him in the face!
DJChaps….. I understand your point…. But the bigger picture is this…. A friend to us all, Mission, has devoted HIS time and HIS money to a contest for which he gets NO compensation. He is owed a little slack.
I suggest you figure out something in your life that if a sweepstakes winning of a few hundred dollars is delayed you don’t need to impugn a guy (Mission) who did a good deed for all of us.
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Fair enough. I guess this is what happens when you invite a broke dude to take part in a pool with a bunch of rich guys. The prize money means nothing to everyone but the broke guy, who then gets antsy after a few delays. He said this week, so I'm sure he meant it this time. All will be zen. :)
February 29th, 2024 at 11:05:48 AM
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I was a bit concerned last year when it took until April to get paid, but it was my first year here and not familiar with anyone. This year is no big deal as I'm sure the winnings will get paid sooner or later.
It's not a sin if you don't win, but it's a tragedy if you don't try.
Be happy and have fun!
February 29th, 2024 at 11:11:38 AM
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I certainly want to make it official that I do not want Mission to pay me if indeed it is his money and now he finds he needs it
The only thing I ask is more transparency here. The whole arrangement is quite cloudy to me, I really have assumed there is some reason he would have offered to do this , who else even hints he would do something like it?
The only thing I ask is more transparency here. The whole arrangement is quite cloudy to me, I really have assumed there is some reason he would have offered to do this , who else even hints he would do something like it?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
February 29th, 2024 at 11:29:16 AM
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Anyone sick of waiting, send me a PM and I will send you an Amazon gift card in the amount you are owed by Mission. Mission can get me back at his leisure. If Amazon gift card doesn’t work for you, then I can’t help.
Will report here any payments made so Mission doesn’t double pay anyone.
Will report here any payments made so Mission doesn’t double pay anyone.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
February 29th, 2024 at 1:30:32 PM
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I was the big winner of the Picks contest the previous year, and yes I did not get paid promptly and yes, there was a substantial delay (quite a few months) during which I did not get paid. However, Mission did indeed pay me eventually. It was after I had given up hope and stopped nagging him. So when he did pay me it was without being nagged.
I did some checking with Wizard and a few other folks at that time because I was wondering whether WOV forum might have a problem with a nonpaying contest. What I found was that there has been a track record of Mission always paying the winners. Now and then there have been some complaints that the payments were not prompt - but, again, Mission has always eventually made the payments he had committed at the outset of the contest.
My personal impression of Mission is that he is one of the highest integrity members of the forum and very concerned (almost to a fault) with whether he is doing the right thing. I mean, most of us know him well enough to know he is a good guy. While I can't guarantee anything, I personally feel very confident that he will make good on the payments he has committed to. So, I advise patience.
I did some checking with Wizard and a few other folks at that time because I was wondering whether WOV forum might have a problem with a nonpaying contest. What I found was that there has been a track record of Mission always paying the winners. Now and then there have been some complaints that the payments were not prompt - but, again, Mission has always eventually made the payments he had committed at the outset of the contest.
My personal impression of Mission is that he is one of the highest integrity members of the forum and very concerned (almost to a fault) with whether he is doing the right thing. I mean, most of us know him well enough to know he is a good guy. While I can't guarantee anything, I personally feel very confident that he will make good on the payments he has committed to. So, I advise patience.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
February 29th, 2024 at 2:01:07 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitI certainly want to make it official that I do not want Mission to pay me if indeed it is his money and now he finds he needs it
The only thing I ask is more transparency here. The whole arrangement is quite cloudy to me, I really have assumed there is some reason he would have offered to do this , who else even hints he would do something like it?
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I don't need the money; I just need to submit and get paid on an invoice.
I've been running this game for about a decade; as long as I have enough to get by, money doesn't concern me. That's really all there is to it. Everyone looks forward to the game every year and I actually like hosting it...after it gets going and everything...I have a little trouble willing myself to get started.
Anyway, I assure everyone I'm just as broke as DJChaps, at least, most of the time; I just happen not to care very much as long as I'm eating.
In any case, I appreciate UnJon's kind offer but hope nobody takes him up on it. I think what I will do is, in August, escrow everything that I initially plan to devote to the WoV Picks game and Playoff Picks Game with UnJon to hold. The only exception to that would be Perfection Bonuses, as I don't know whether or not those will be won.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
February 29th, 2024 at 2:39:10 PM
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Well now I'm confused as hell. I was initially told that the money was tied into a GC until Super Bowl. Now you are waiting on payment that you have yet to invoice. Please clarify dude. You have offered to send prizes for a few weeks running now, and then put it off. Can you please give some kind of concrete word here? Cheers.
February 29th, 2024 at 3:56:46 PM
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Quote: DJChapsWell now I'm confused as hell. I was initially told that the money was tied into a GC until Super Bowl. Now you are waiting on payment that you have yet to invoice. Please clarify dude. You have offered to send prizes for a few weeks running now, and then put it off. Can you please give some kind of concrete word here? Cheers.
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Yes; it’ll be done no later than next Friday, one way or another, excusing potential bank money transfer delays, which I’d have no control over.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
March 3rd, 2024 at 3:41:24 PM
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I posted something similar at the end of last season, so I am posting with this year's numbers as well.
Group 1: When more than 50% of players (13 or more for 2023) had the same pick, the record was 3 - 2 (60%). For 2022 and 2023, the record was 6 - 9 (40%).
Group 2: When more than 33% and up to 50% of players (9 - 12 players for 2023) had the same pick, the record was 14 - 15 - 1 (48.3%). For 2022 and 2023, the record was 36 - 28 - 2 (56.3%).
Group 3: When more than 25% and up to 33% of players (7 or 8 players for 2023) had the same pick, the record was 18 - 21 - 2 (46.2%). For 2022 and 2023, the record was 43 - 58 - 4 (42.6%).
Fading Groups 1 and 3 while tailing Group 2 over the last 2 seasons, one could theoretically have gone 103 - 77 - 6 (57.2%). Very respectable win percentage.
Still a small sample size and you'd need time to figure which games fall into the groups, but it's something I will continue to do and see if the numbers hold.
Group 1: When more than 50% of players (13 or more for 2023) had the same pick, the record was 3 - 2 (60%). For 2022 and 2023, the record was 6 - 9 (40%).
Group 2: When more than 33% and up to 50% of players (9 - 12 players for 2023) had the same pick, the record was 14 - 15 - 1 (48.3%). For 2022 and 2023, the record was 36 - 28 - 2 (56.3%).
Group 3: When more than 25% and up to 33% of players (7 or 8 players for 2023) had the same pick, the record was 18 - 21 - 2 (46.2%). For 2022 and 2023, the record was 43 - 58 - 4 (42.6%).
Fading Groups 1 and 3 while tailing Group 2 over the last 2 seasons, one could theoretically have gone 103 - 77 - 6 (57.2%). Very respectable win percentage.
Still a small sample size and you'd need time to figure which games fall into the groups, but it's something I will continue to do and see if the numbers hold.
Last edited by: Vegasbrent on Mar 3, 2024
It's not a sin if you don't win, but it's a tragedy if you don't try.
Be happy and have fun!
March 8th, 2024 at 10:41:36 AM
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Quote: Mission146Quote: DJChapsWell now I'm confused as hell. I was initially told that the money was tied into a GC until Super Bowl. Now you are waiting on payment that you have yet to invoice. Please clarify dude. You have offered to send prizes for a few weeks running now, and then put it off. Can you please give some kind of concrete word here? Cheers.
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Yes; it’ll be done no later than next Friday, one way or another, excusing potential bank money transfer delays, which I’d have no control over.
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Today is a day of celebration, folks. :D
March 8th, 2024 at 6:58:37 PM
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OH..... RIGHT ON....
March 10th, 2024 at 1:56:02 PM
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Like....WTF? HELLO???? Guy gives his word, AGAIN. This is beyond ridiculous at this point.
March 10th, 2024 at 2:03:18 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitMission, you are wrong to take this attitude. Who in the world doesn't hate getting jacked around about money owed to them ... In my case I don't need the money if you need to keep it ... HOWEVER... I consider 'slow pay' as a form of welching ... and though I don't need the money, welching is not something I am rational about ... I really hate it with a passionQuote: Mission146Quote: DJChapsQuote: Mission146I’m sending out a PM this morning and updating everyone on payout status. I’ll be doing payouts next week. I’ve been more than a little preoccupied recently with trivial matters that, unfortunately, are delaying more important affairs in addition to putting me in a terrible mood and causing great lethargy in me.
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we were told we would be paid this past monday. now its next week? jesus christ, this is so you can tally up another grown man's gambling winnings, correct? take a break. ;) I would care much less if I wasn't still struggling a bit IRL, but this is silly now. I, speaking selfishly for just myself at the moment, won in early January. Really didn't expect to have to wait until March. Quite the slap in the face watching us get back burnered while you do the cringy MDawg shit.
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It's free money that I'm paying out of my own personal funds; feel free not to play next year.
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That's exactly what this is smelling like. A bunch of unkept dates, and constantly evolving excuses.
Silly of me to assume that a guy would keep his word. Meanwhile someone here tells me I need to examine my life, insinuating I'm some kind of low life cuz I don't like being blatantly lied to. Unreal.
March 10th, 2024 at 2:23:55 PM
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Quote: DJChapsQuote: odiousgambitMission, you are wrong to take this attitude. Who in the world doesn't hate getting jacked around about money owed to them ... In my case I don't need the money if you need to keep it ... HOWEVER... I consider 'slow pay' as a form of welching ... and though I don't need the money, welching is not something I am rational about ... I really hate it with a passionQuote: Mission146Quote: DJChapsQuote: Mission146I’m sending out a PM this morning and updating everyone on payout status. I’ll be doing payouts next week. I’ve been more than a little preoccupied recently with trivial matters that, unfortunately, are delaying more important affairs in addition to putting me in a terrible mood and causing great lethargy in me.
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we were told we would be paid this past monday. now its next week? jesus christ, this is so you can tally up another grown man's gambling winnings, correct? take a break. ;) I would care much less if I wasn't still struggling a bit IRL, but this is silly now. I, speaking selfishly for just myself at the moment, won in early January. Really didn't expect to have to wait until March. Quite the slap in the face watching us get back burnered while you do the cringy MDawg shit.
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It's free money that I'm paying out of my own personal funds; feel free not to play next year.
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That's exactly what this is smelling like. A bunch of unkept dates, and constantly evolving excuses.
Silly of me to assume that a guy would keep his word. Meanwhile someone here tells me I need to examine my life, insinuating I'm some kind of low life cuz I don't like being blatantly lied to. Unreal.
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I didn’t insinuate you were some kind of low life. I just think that an adult who can’t easily withstand the delay of a few hundred dollars is in some sort of personal trouble.
I am frankly disappointed as well in you not being paid yet. it is a black mark on Mission and the WOO website. If you don’t have the money by Monday I suggest you send a PM to Wizard.
March 10th, 2024 at 2:42:01 PM
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Yeah, sorry about that, allowed my frustration to twist words there. I am indeed in a rough spot IRL, struggling to get back to work etc. hopefully he comes thru tomorrow.
March 11th, 2024 at 4:14:17 AM
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Mission is a friend so I don't want to come down on him any harder than I already have
I would suggest in future that the announced prizes have a disclaimer, that date of payment is totally uncertain and historically been quite delayed. Seriously.
And I'm serious about not needing to be paid.
I asked for transparency and haven't gotten it, though. What I mean is, it wouldn't seem to be true that this is really Mission's own money. I hope not, or he is not in his right mind to even think about giving away that kind of money.
I would suggest in future that the announced prizes have a disclaimer, that date of payment is totally uncertain and historically been quite delayed. Seriously.
And I'm serious about not needing to be paid.
I asked for transparency and haven't gotten it, though. What I mean is, it wouldn't seem to be true that this is really Mission's own money. I hope not, or he is not in his right mind to even think about giving away that kind of money.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 12th, 2024 at 6:10:17 AM
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Mission ghosting this thread (and the forum in general) HARD. Such a great look.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:41:57 AM
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I've already posted about my experience with delayed payments last year but made it clear that Mission did eventually pay and has always paid contest winner in the prior years (even when delays in payments were experienced.) .
As I recall, Mission did not pay me (last year's 1st place winner) until the summertime last year. So, yes, it was a very substantial delay. I continue to expect that Mission will pay this year.
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I'm not happy about the delay in payment on this contest but I will point out that the way the payment system is structured:
1. No one has put up any money upfront, so that any as-yet-unpaid winners have not lost any money they wagered.
2. If Mission were in fact to disappear, or otherwise not make payments
- he will not have received any money inappropriately from the contest.
- it would be a matter somewhat similar to welching on a wager made publicly in the WOV forum, which traditionally has involved administrator actions against the 'welcher'
3. I feel confident that several of us (including admins) would have some conversation about how to remediate the situation regarding unpaid winners. unjon has already made statements to that regard, and I would also be willing to put up some personal funds to help restore the integrity of the WOV forum, if it comes down to that.
As I recall, Mission did not pay me (last year's 1st place winner) until the summertime last year. So, yes, it was a very substantial delay. I continue to expect that Mission will pay this year.
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I'm not happy about the delay in payment on this contest but I will point out that the way the payment system is structured:
1. No one has put up any money upfront, so that any as-yet-unpaid winners have not lost any money they wagered.
2. If Mission were in fact to disappear, or otherwise not make payments
- he will not have received any money inappropriately from the contest.
- it would be a matter somewhat similar to welching on a wager made publicly in the WOV forum, which traditionally has involved administrator actions against the 'welcher'
3. I feel confident that several of us (including admins) would have some conversation about how to remediate the situation regarding unpaid winners. unjon has already made statements to that regard, and I would also be willing to put up some personal funds to help restore the integrity of the WOV forum, if it comes down to that.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
March 12th, 2024 at 11:57:43 AM
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Mission is responsible for the entry fees of 5 people this year, based on prizes won by others. I was told not to collect entry fees from these people. This is beyond him welching the graciously added prize money, this is also a case of entry fees not being paid to the winner. The thought of waiting until summer time (WTF) is disgusting as yer almost into the next season/pool by then. He has to get back on here and resolve this once and for all. He has made it clear I am not welcome next year and that is fine, but make good here and I will bounce for good.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:04:14 PM
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So, assuming Mission does eventually keep his word and pay out here, I am expecting 480. I am looking to sell this debt for 420 obo LOL.
inquire within.
inquire within.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:13:36 PM
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Just to reiterate, I’m happy to send anyone an Amazon gift card code for an amount Mission owes. Just PM me.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
March 12th, 2024 at 5:29:36 PM
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Quote: DJChapsMission is responsible for the entry fees of 5 people this year, based on prizes won by others. I was told not to collect entry fees from these people. This is beyond him welching the graciously added prize money, this is also a case of entry fees not being paid to the winner. The thought of waiting until summer time (WTF) is disgusting as yer almost into the next season/pool by then. He has to get back on here and resolve this once and for all. He has made it clear I am not welcome next year and that is fine, but make good here and I will bounce for good.
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I have been made aware of this situation and am on the case.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 12th, 2024 at 5:42:27 PM
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Mission is on suspension effectively immediately until he has paid the prize money. He did not contest this action and does intend to pay. I've known Mission for years and fully believe he will, although I make no promises on a timeline.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 12th, 2024 at 5:54:55 PM
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Quote: WizardQuote: DJChapsMission is responsible for the entry fees of 5 people this year, based on prizes won by others. I was told not to collect entry fees from these people. This is beyond him welching the graciously added prize money, this is also a case of entry fees not being paid to the winner. The thought of waiting until summer time (WTF) is disgusting as yer almost into the next season/pool by then. He has to get back on here and resolve this once and for all. He has made it clear I am not welcome next year and that is fine, but make good here and I will bounce for good.
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I have been made aware of this situation and am on the case.
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Oh snap, much appreciated. This is very unlike Mission. from my experiences, mostly on another forum, he has always seemed just as solid a bloke as everyone says. If I wasn't between jobs IRL this really would be a back burner issue for me and I'd chill n wait. But I am desperate, sad to say, to get paid here and pad my life roll.
March 12th, 2024 at 6:24:11 PM
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oops double post, deleting this one.
March 12th, 2024 at 6:25:18 PM
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Quote: unJonJust to reiterate, I’m happy to send anyone an Amazon gift card code for an amount Mission owes. Just PM me.
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I'd be up for this if someone on here immediately wanted to buy it off me at a discount. Serious. With the extra vig offered,I'm owed 480. Id go 400 if someone jumped right on this.
March 12th, 2024 at 7:35:55 PM
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Quote: DJChapsQuote: unJonJust to reiterate, I’m happy to send anyone an Amazon gift card code for an amount Mission owes. Just PM me.
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I'd be up for this if someone on here immediately wanted to buy it off me at a discount. Serious. With the extra vig offered,I'm owed 480. Id go 400 if someone jumped right on this.
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I have sent DJChaps $400 USD through Paypal. We simply had a worse case scenario here where our big winner has a personal situation and would genuinely benefit from promptly receiving cash. The payment that was due to DJChaps is now owed to me. I expect that DJChaps will make a post to confirm this.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
March 12th, 2024 at 7:50:49 PM
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Quote: gordonm888Quote: DJChapsQuote: unJonJust to reiterate, I’m happy to send anyone an Amazon gift card code for an amount Mission owes. Just PM me.
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I'd be up for this if someone on here immediately wanted to buy it off me at a discount. Serious. With the extra vig offered,I'm owed 480. Id go 400 if someone jumped right on this.
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I have sent DJChaps $400 USD through Paypal. We simply had a worse case scenario here where our big winner has a personal situation and would genuinely benefit from promptly receiving cash. The payment that was due to DJChaps is now owed to me. I expect that DJChaps will make a post to confirm this.
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I assume you contacted Mission to let him know. If he was owed $480 I would hope Mission would pay you $400 and DJChaps the $80 he was willing to forgo to just get paid. Of course I know technically Mission now owes you the entire $480. To me it’s the right thing to do.
And of course thank you to UnJon and Gordon for protecting the reputation of WoV.
There won’t be this issue next year. I will patiently wait for my winning payment.
March 12th, 2024 at 7:52:02 PM
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Quote: gordonm888Quote: DJChapsQuote: unJonJust to reiterate, I’m happy to send anyone an Amazon gift card code for an amount Mission owes. Just PM me.
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I'd be up for this if someone on here immediately wanted to buy it off me at a discount. Serious. With the extra vig offered,I'm owed 480. Id go 400 if someone jumped right on this.
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I have sent DJChaps $400 USD through Paypal. We simply had a worse case scenario here where our big winner has a personal situation and would genuinely benefit from promptly receiving cash. The payment that was due to DJChaps is now owed to me. I expect that DJChaps will make a post to confirm this.
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100% confirm reciept of said paypal payment. I have been made good here, and all prizes owed are now owed to Gordon.
C
March 12th, 2024 at 8:15:41 PM
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Quote: gordonm888Quote: DJChapsQuote: unJonJust to reiterate, I’m happy to send anyone an Amazon gift card code for an amount Mission owes. Just PM me.
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I'd be up for this if someone on here immediately wanted to buy it off me at a discount. Serious. With the extra vig offered,I'm owed 480. Id go 400 if someone jumped right on this.
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I have sent DJChaps $400 USD through Paypal. We simply had a worse case scenario here where our big winner has a personal situation and would genuinely benefit from promptly receiving cash. The payment that was due to DJChaps is now owed to me. I expect that DJChaps will make a post to confirm this.
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Something about this doesn't seem right to me. I don't think the winner of the contest should have to settle for less than the full prize. The prize was $480. Due to slow payment the winner had to sell the debt at a discount and is only awarded $400. This in addition to possibly being deprived of the joy of victory by having to pursue the winnings. I think anyone who has an interest in maintaining the integrity of WoV and contests held here should take the responsibility to make up the difference. Primarily I think this falls on Mission as the person who runs the contest.
Since Mission has trouble paying it was very generous of unJon to step up especially since he has no skin in the game.
I'm not sure what to think of a moderator taking advantage of the arbitrage opportunity unJon's generosity created. Even though the contest was run by a private individual and not by WoV, I think WoV has an interest in the integrity of the contest. The contest generates traffic and has participation by prominent members, so it is part of the WoV product. I think the moderators are uncompensated volunteers, so I'm unsure of their level of responsibility to maintain contest integrity and can accept that that is not their job. Yet somehow a moderator taking advantage of a contest winner getting a haircut on their winnings doesn't have the ring of integrity to me. I find the contrast between unJon's generosity and gordonm888's purchase of the alternate prize interesting. It's an AP move in a sense and we're not necessarily friends here, but it is one contest participant who in some sense represents the site by being a moderator taking advantage of another contest participant who put up their own funds to protect the integrity of the contest. Perhaps someone else can more eloquently identify what's wrong here or convince me that it really is all above board.
SOOPOO also expressed some thoughts as I was typing this, and I endorse parts of what he said.
(edited to say I endorse parts of SOOPOO's post, I reread it after finishing my post.)
March 12th, 2024 at 8:27:26 PM
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Quote: RideTheEdgeQuote: gordonm888Quote: DJChapsQuote: unJonJust to reiterate, I’m happy to send anyone an Amazon gift card code for an amount Mission owes. Just PM me.
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I'd be up for this if someone on here immediately wanted to buy it off me at a discount. Serious. With the extra vig offered,I'm owed 480. Id go 400 if someone jumped right on this.
link to original post
I have sent DJChaps $400 USD through Paypal. We simply had a worse case scenario here where our big winner has a personal situation and would genuinely benefit from promptly receiving cash. The payment that was due to DJChaps is now owed to me. I expect that DJChaps will make a post to confirm this.
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Something about this doesn't seem right to me. I don't think the winner of the contest should have to settle for less than the full prize. The prize was $480. Due to slow payment the winner had to sell the debt at a discount and is only awarded $400. This in addition to possibly being deprived of the joy of victory by having to pursue the winnings. I think anyone who has an interest in maintaining the integrity of WoV and contests held here should take the responsibility to make up the difference. Primarily I think this falls on Mission as the person who runs the contest.
Since Mission has trouble paying it was very generous of unJon to step up especially since he has no skin in the game.
I'm not sure what to think of a moderator taking advantage of the arbitrage opportunity unJon's generosity created. Even though the contest was run by a private individual and not by WoV, I think WoV has an interest in the integrity of the contest. The contest generates traffic and has participation by prominent members, so it is part of the WoV product. I think the moderators are uncompensated volunteers, so I'm unsure of their level of responsibility to maintain contest integrity and can accept that that is not their job. Yet somehow a moderator taking advantage of a contest winner getting a haircut on their winnings doesn't have the ring of integrity to me. I find the contrast between unJon's generosity and gordonm888's purchase of the alternate prize interesting. It's an AP move in a sense and we're not necessarily friends here, but it is one contest participant who in some sense represents the site by being a moderator taking advantage of another contest participant who put up their own funds to protect the integrity of the contest. Perhaps someone else can more eloquently identify what's wrong here or convince me that it really is all above board.
SOOPOO also expressed some thoughts as I was typing this, and I endorse parts of what he said.
(edited to say I endorse parts of SOOPOO's post, I reread it after finishing my post.)
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I don't see a problem, Chaps offered to sell the debt at a discount Gordon accepted.
As simple, smooth and clean as a business transaction gets.
I don't know why Mission hasn't paid he has always been a standup guy in my opinion so I suspect there is
a legitimate reason.
March 12th, 2024 at 9:08:31 PM
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Quote: RideTheEdgeQuote: gordonm888Quote: DJChapsQuote: unJonJust to reiterate, I’m happy to send anyone an Amazon gift card code for an amount Mission owes. Just PM me.
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I'd be up for this if someone on here immediately wanted to buy it off me at a discount. Serious. With the extra vig offered,I'm owed 480. Id go 400 if someone jumped right on this.
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I have sent DJChaps $400 USD through Paypal. We simply had a worse case scenario here where our big winner has a personal situation and would genuinely benefit from promptly receiving cash. The payment that was due to DJChaps is now owed to me. I expect that DJChaps will make a post to confirm this.
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Something about this doesn't seem right to me. I don't think the winner of the contest should have to settle for less than the full prize. The prize was $480. Due to slow payment the winner had to sell the debt at a discount and is only awarded $400. This in addition to possibly being deprived of the joy of victory by having to pursue the winnings. I think anyone who has an interest in maintaining the integrity of WoV and contests held here should take the responsibility to make up the difference. Primarily I think this falls on Mission as the person who runs the contest.
Since Mission has trouble paying it was very generous of unJon to step up especially since he has no skin in the game.
I'm not sure what to think of a moderator taking advantage of the arbitrage opportunity unJon's generosity created. Even though the contest was run by a private individual and not by WoV, I think WoV has an interest in the integrity of the contest. The contest generates traffic and has participation by prominent members, so it is part of the WoV product. I think the moderators are uncompensated volunteers, so I'm unsure of their level of responsibility to maintain contest integrity and can accept that that is not their job. Yet somehow a moderator taking advantage of a contest winner getting a haircut on their winnings doesn't have the ring of integrity to me. I find the contrast between unJon's generosity and gordonm888's purchase of the alternate prize interesting. It's an AP move in a sense and we're not necessarily friends here, but it is one contest participant who in some sense represents the site by being a moderator taking advantage of another contest participant who put up their own funds to protect the integrity of the contest. Perhaps someone else can more eloquently identify what's wrong here or convince me that it really is all above board.
SOOPOO also expressed some thoughts as I was typing this, and I endorse parts of what he said.
(edited to say I endorse parts of SOOPOO's post, I reread it after finishing my post.)
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I just want to clarify that I haven’t received any PMs asking me to send an Amazon code. In other words, Gordon did not execute an immediate payment mechanism arbitrage by Venmo’ing DJ $400 and asking me for a $480 Amazon code. I assume Gordon is accepting “Mission credit risk” which I handicap as close to the time value of money without any significant amount of counterparty nonpayment risk.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:08:02 PM
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Quote: unJon
[snip]
I just want to clarify that I haven’t received any PMs asking me to send an Amazon code. In other words, Gordon did not execute an immediate payment mechanism arbitrage by Venmo’ing DJ $400 and asking me for a $480 Amazon code. I assume Gordon is accepting “Mission credit risk” which I handicap as close to the time value of money without any significant amount of counterparty nonpayment risk.
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Thank you for clarifying. The arbitrage is thus between DJC's time value of money (a very high percentage rate, though maybe he also considers risk of non-payment while others do not) and Gordon's time value of money. I still think it smells funny, especially since Gordon is a moderator. He doesn't have a responsibility to insure the integrity of the contest (neither do you though it was very nice to offer) but taking advantage of DJC's desire to be paid promptly (a very reasonable desire) doesn't feel right.
We're in a world where there is now a market for Mission's marker, and the winners and losers in this market aren't based on the ability to pick the winner of a football game. I don't think this is the contest DJC thought he was entering.
I get passionate about this because gambling as an avocation relies on integrity of payment of gambling debts. In many forms of gambling all of the money changes hands between individuals who rely on trust or the games go away.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:08:17 PM
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Yes, I am not going to make an AP move and take advantage of this situation by asking unjon for $480 in amazon gift cards. I was honestly trying to help DJChaps who has a real-life need to get cash promptly.
I paid a $5.00 paypal fee in sending the $400 to DJChaps (his preferred method of payment.). I have to bear the following risks:
1. Mission doesn't pay.
2. Mission disagrees with the $480 figure and declares the payment due to DJChaps is lower. Note: only DJChaps has defined that he is owed $480.
If Mission comes out of his coma and offers to make a $480 payment, I have three options:
1. Hang on to the $75 in profit.
2. Forgive Mission $75 in payment. (Last year I told Mission to withhold $100 of my winnings and apply it to the prizes for the playoff contest.)
3. Send $70 -75 to DJChaps.
It's my choice as to what I do. I'll make that decision if and when Mission is ready to pay up.
I do not have a charitable view of anyone posting that a moderator has taken advantage of this situation. DJChaps thanked me repeatedly for doing this and I am now out $405 with no certainty that I will be paid anything.
I paid a $5.00 paypal fee in sending the $400 to DJChaps (his preferred method of payment.). I have to bear the following risks:
1. Mission doesn't pay.
2. Mission disagrees with the $480 figure and declares the payment due to DJChaps is lower. Note: only DJChaps has defined that he is owed $480.
If Mission comes out of his coma and offers to make a $480 payment, I have three options:
1. Hang on to the $75 in profit.
2. Forgive Mission $75 in payment. (Last year I told Mission to withhold $100 of my winnings and apply it to the prizes for the playoff contest.)
3. Send $70 -75 to DJChaps.
It's my choice as to what I do. I'll make that decision if and when Mission is ready to pay up.
I do not have a charitable view of anyone posting that a moderator has taken advantage of this situation. DJChaps thanked me repeatedly for doing this and I am now out $405 with no certainty that I will be paid anything.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:16:44 PM
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The unfortunate part is that year after year, it appears, a user who habitually stalls payment of prizes is permitted to continue running this contest and promising money he doesn't have as bonuses etc.
March 12th, 2024 at 10:18:55 PM
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Quote: gordonm888[snip]
I do not have a charitable view of anyone posting that a moderator has taken advantage of this situation.
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Gordon, I have a lot of respect for your posts regarding analysis of gambling games and have no wish to run afoul.
I'd add one more risk. Mission may not recognize that the deal you and DJC made has anything to do with him and pays DJC in full directly.
I don't think you are using your power as a moderator to take advantage of this situation. Just that as a moderator, your actions should enhance rather than diminish the integrity of the contest. We clearly disagree here, but I'll shut up now.
March 14th, 2024 at 12:14:27 AM
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wow glad I didn't win now, getting slow paid twice in one season I woulda flipped my lid
Also one thing that I don't get, if you say well I run a great freeroll every year.....well here is the thing, the thing is the payouts. If you get everyone paid in a timely manner then yes, you run a great freeroll. If you do not pay expeditiously then sorry, it is not a great freeroll. And frankly the winner's financial situation should be completely irrelevant, whether they need the money or not they should get paid.
Also one thing that I don't get, if you say well I run a great freeroll every year.....well here is the thing, the thing is the payouts. If you get everyone paid in a timely manner then yes, you run a great freeroll. If you do not pay expeditiously then sorry, it is not a great freeroll. And frankly the winner's financial situation should be completely irrelevant, whether they need the money or not they should get paid.
March 18th, 2024 at 3:20:06 AM
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Quote: DJChapsQuite the slap in the face watching us get back burnered while you do the cringy MDawg shit.
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Warning -- profanity.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 18th, 2024 at 7:32:09 AM
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Quote: WizardQuote: DJChapsQuite the slap in the face watching us get back burnered while you do the cringy MDawg shit.
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Warning -- profanity.
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LOL what?
March 18th, 2024 at 7:51:27 AM
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This forum has lots of rules and much effort Is put into enforcement of these rules. See https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/
March 18th, 2024 at 10:48:32 AM
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Mission146 could just disclose in advance of each contest that while payments to winners are guaranteed, they may be delayed and will not be paid on any particular schedule.
Solved.
Solved.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
March 30th, 2024 at 3:32:07 AM
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Quote: DJChapsLike....WTF? HELLO???? Guy gives his word, AGAIN. This is beyond ridiculous at this point.
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Have you been paid yet?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 30th, 2024 at 4:23:03 AM
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Gordon has to answer that
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 30th, 2024 at 10:04:59 AM
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Quote: WizardQuote: DJChapsLike....WTF? HELLO???? Guy gives his word, AGAIN. This is beyond ridiculous at this point.
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Have you been paid yet?
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Sort of yeah. I put the debt up for sale for 420 and ended up accepting 400 out of desperation.
March 30th, 2024 at 3:54:19 PM
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Quote: DJChapsSort of yeah. I put the debt up for sale for 420 and ended up accepting 400 out of desperation.
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Getting 95 cents on the dollar isn't bad. I don't know who assumed the debt, but the suspension shall hold until the holder of such debt has been made whole.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 30th, 2024 at 6:41:40 PM
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Quote: WizardQuote: DJChapsSort of yeah. I put the debt up for sale for 420 and ended up accepting 400 out of desperation.
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Getting 95 cents on the dollar isn't bad. I don't know who assumed the debt, but the suspension shall hold until the holder of such debt has been made whole.
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If you scroll upward you will see that DJChaps offered to sell anyone his debt of $480 for $400 if the $400 could be paid immediately to help him with a personal situation. I offered to do that and immediately sent DJChaps $400 in cash and paid a Paypal fee of $5.00 to do so. He thanked me repeatedly for doing this.
So, as posted somewhere above, Mission now owes me $480. If he pays it to DJChaps I expect DJ will do the honorable thing and send the money to me.
One member has been criticizing me for profiteering off the contest. In my defense:
- I am now out $405 of my personal funds with no guarantee of getting paid. And I am not publicly badgering the WOV leadership about hosting a non-paying tournament.
- If Mission does make payment to me of $480, I have made no decision yet what I will do with the $75 profit. The money is not important to me.
- My motivation was actually to help DJChaps. I am not at liberty to reveal why he needed the cash immediately, but I was trying to act out of human decency.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
