Thread Rating:

Poll

44 votes (65.67%)
2 votes (2.98%)
5 votes (7.46%)
4 votes (5.97%)
9 votes (13.43%)
2 votes (2.98%)
1 vote (1.49%)

67 members have voted

redietz
redietz
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 767
Joined: Jun 5, 2019
May 9th, 2020 at 7:26:32 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Betting on it seems to be exactly the same as any other market: best available, correlated parlays

For tonight: Dinos -130 and -135, Giants over 9.5, Eagles +160




Okay, so I assume this was NOT a "correlated parlay" due to the presence of three outcomes?
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
TomG
TomG
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 2428
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
May 9th, 2020 at 3:04:09 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Hard to find a place lets you parlay an NFL win and over/under? I do it all the time.



Explain how those are correlated, and the strength of the correlation.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 242
  • Posts: 14154
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
May 9th, 2020 at 3:11:41 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

Explain how those are correlated, and the strength of the correlation.



Ask the poster who brought it up. I just make the bet sometimes if it looks good. I do not use it as a regular thing.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
TomG
TomG
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 2428
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
May 9th, 2020 at 3:14:36 PM permalink
Quote: redietz

Quote: TomG

Betting on it seems to be exactly the same as any other market: best available, correlated parlays

For tonight: Dinos -130 and -135, Giants over 9.5, Eagles +160

Okay, so I assume this was NOT a "correlated parlay" due to the presence of three outcomes?



Those bets were made based on best available numbers. But two of those bets were highly correlated. I'll let you decide which ones.

For tonight, which is really tomorrow: Tigers -130, Dinos +145, Eagles +165, Wyverns +135, Bears under 9.5 +105
redietz
redietz
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 767
Joined: Jun 5, 2019
May 9th, 2020 at 10:03:52 PM permalink
Okay, well, this brings me to the nitty gritty. When you said "bets" in the phrase above, were you referencing three separate wagers? Or were you talking about betting a three-team parlay, which makes zero sense to me.
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
May 17th, 2020 at 6:38:59 AM permalink
new rules for the MLB when it resumes include:

𝐧𝐨 𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐭𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠


say whaaaaaaaat?


baseball just won't be baseball without 90% of the players 𝘩𝘰𝘤𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘨𝘪𝘦 every couple of minutes...........................................😃




https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/16/major-league-baseball-new-rules-coronavirus/
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
redietz
redietz
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 767
Joined: Jun 5, 2019
May 17th, 2020 at 12:56:58 PM permalink
Yeah, I saw this. This is going to take more self awareness than people realize, I think. Literally every moment is going to require some self-adjustment or editing. Many rules; very different.

Man, even though I'm old, I try to jog 1 1/2 to 3 miles every other day. I have done it wearing a mask about half of the last dozen times. I must spit about as much as anyone while jogging, so it is really an adjustment to suck air through a mask and not spit. It's a harder workout, and swallowing your own spit is no fun at all. You can't reach up and pull your mask away and spit while jogging -- it throws off your pace and you wind up touching your face and defeating the purpose of the mask.

It looks pretty obvious that football is not going to work if the same priorities are applied. Football should either plan for a January start or take the year off.
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
vegas
vegas
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 716
Joined: Apr 27, 2012
May 17th, 2020 at 6:41:44 PM permalink
Quote: redietz

Yeah, I saw this. This is going to take more self awareness than people realize, I think. Literally every moment is going to require some self-adjustment or editing. Many rules; very different.

Man, even though I'm old, I try to jog 1 1/2 to 3 miles every other day. I have done it wearing a mask about half of the last dozen times. I must spit about as much as anyone while jogging, so it is really an adjustment to suck air through a mask and not spit. It's a harder workout, and swallowing your own spit is no fun at all. You can't reach up and pull your mask away and spit while jogging -- it throws off your pace and you wind up touching your face and defeating the purpose of the mask.

It looks pretty obvious that football is not going to work if the same priorities are applied. Football should either plan for a January start or take the year off.




Football will NEVER take a year off. Football is America's sport. Way too much money involved to cancel the season. Won't happen. Money talks.
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
michael99000
michael99000
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2113
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
May 17th, 2020 at 10:15:01 PM permalink
Quote: vegas

Football will NEVER take a year off. Football is America's sport. Way too much money involved to cancel the season. Won't happen. Money talks.



So hypothetically, had this whole pandemic began in August, what do you think the NFL wouldve done ?

We may actually find out. If there’s a second, and possibly worse wave in the fall.
vegas
vegas
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 716
Joined: Apr 27, 2012
May 18th, 2020 at 5:25:26 AM permalink
Quote: michael99000

So hypothetically, had this whole pandemic began in August, what do you think the NFL wouldve done ?

We may actually find out. If there’s a second, and possibly worse wave in the fall.



Football will go on. The first big issue is college football. The universities make the bulk of their money from tv concession stands and ticket sales. Los Angeles County has extended its stay at home by three months. This includes UCLA and USC. Instead of the usual six week training camp maybe they will shorten to half as long.
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
DRich
DRich
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 12032
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
May 18th, 2020 at 5:57:49 AM permalink
I expect college football to delay or cancel the season becausemost of their revenue comes from people at the stadiums. Pro football most of their revenue comes from TV so I expect it will go on and I would be shocked if they cancelled the season.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
  • Threads: 122
  • Posts: 11139
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
May 18th, 2020 at 11:04:01 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I expect college football to delay or cancel the season becausemost of their revenue comes from people at the stadiums. Pro football most of their revenue comes from TV so I expect it will go on and I would be shocked if they cancelled the season.



College football, at the top level, laughably will have their hypocrisy exposed bare when they decide to have 'students' banging heads while not allowing them to sit in a classroom with masks on.

NFL may make a boatload from TV, but they make a half boatload from tickets/parking/concessions. Will be interesting to see what concessions in reduced salary the owners will request/players will agree to.

MLB pitcher (Snell?) on "low" contract, "only" $50 million for 5 years. Is due $8 million this year, will be cut to $4 million with deal worked out between union and owners. Player said he won't play for that little, and will just forgo the $2+ million he would have gotten after taxes. His next contract if he keeps up his level of play is probably $200 million plus for 7 or so years. So he will sit out abridged 2020 season. Interesting
michael99000
michael99000
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2113
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
May 18th, 2020 at 11:30:54 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

College football, at the top level, laughably will have their hypocrisy exposed bare when they decide to have 'students' banging heads while not allowing them to sit in a classroom with masks on.

NFL may make a boatload from TV, but they make a half boatload from tickets/parking/concessions. Will be interesting to see what concessions in reduced salary the owners will request/players will agree to.

MLB pitcher (Snell?) on "low" contract, "only" $50 million for 5 years. Is due $8 million this year, will be cut to $4 million with deal worked out between union and owners. Player said he won't play for that little, and will just forgo the $2+ million he would have gotten after taxes. His next contract if he keeps up his level of play is probably $200 million plus for 7 or so years. So he will sit out abridged 2020 season. Interesting



I don’t see NFL players taking any less money due to the no fans thing. If the season is shortened and actual games are missed , than they would have to accept prorated salaries.

But if they play the full 16 games that their salary is based on, they’ll expect all their money. Especially in a sport where careers average only 3-4 years, You make sure you get every penny your contract calls for. When games have no fans because of bad weather, or the team is playing poorly , or any other reason, the owners take on that financial hit themselves. This would be the same. Additionally , The NFL is already a salary capped league to begin with , so they will put an even bigger stance against reduced salaries.

It also remains to be seen how the shortened offseason affects things. OTAs were already cancelled. There’s talk of a shortened preseason to maybe 1-2 games. Let’s see about training camps in late July. I’m curious how that gets handled , right now in NJ there is no way the jets would be able to hold theirs (if it hypothetically began today ) while maybe some teams could. This could all lead to more injuries early in the season , with players out of shape, not properly prepped.
redietz
redietz
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 767
Joined: Jun 5, 2019
May 18th, 2020 at 1:49:21 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I expect college football to delay or cancel the season becausemost of their revenue comes from people at the stadiums. Pro football most of their revenue comes from TV so I expect it will go on and I would be shocked if they cancelled the season.




I think this is the most likely scenario. Most of the "Power Five" conference teams rely on scheduling the bottom teams from other conferences and the occasional 1-AA squad to pad the home revenues. The non-power schools without big contracts are not going to see any cost/benefit advantage to playing this season. The money's not worth it. The 1-AA schools are in a bind. They rely on the "slaughter largesse" to finance their seasons.

If you have a college season, and multiple teams wind up with multiple infections, it will be a nightmare. And if anyone dies from getting sick, the amateurism model will go out the window. Dying for a scholarship would taint college athletics in a way no scandal ever has.

One good side effect -- this may end bowl games once and for all.
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 3667
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
May 18th, 2020 at 1:55:33 PM permalink
Quote: redietz



Man, even though I'm old, I try to jog 1 1/2 to 3 miles every other day. I have done it wearing a mask about half of the last dozen times. I must spit about as much as anyone while jogging, so it is really an adjustment to suck air through a mask and not spit. It's a harder workout, and swallowing your own spit is no fun at all. You can't reach up and pull your mask away and spit while jogging -- it throws off your pace and you wind up touching your face and defeating the purpose of the mask.



One of your character parodies you sometimes speak of?
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
  • Threads: 122
  • Posts: 11139
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
May 18th, 2020 at 1:59:57 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

I don’t see NFL players taking any less money due to the no fans thing. If the season is shortened and actual games are missed , than they would have to accept prorated salaries.

But if they play the full 16 games that their salary is based on, they’ll expect all their money. Especially in a sport where careers average only 3-4 years, You make sure you get every penny your contract calls for. When games have no fans because of bad weather, or the team is playing poorly , or any other reason, the owners take on that financial hit themselves. This would be the same. Additionally , The NFL is already a salary capped league to begin with , so they will put an even bigger stance against reduced salaries.

It also remains to be seen how the shortened offseason affects things. OTAs were already cancelled. There’s talk of a shortened preseason to maybe 1-2 games. Let’s see about training camps in late July. I’m curious how that gets handled , right now in NJ there is no way the jets would be able to hold theirs (if it hypothetically began today ) while maybe some teams could. This could all lead to more injuries early in the season , with players out of shape, not properly prepped.



Each year the NFL puts in place a salary cap. If the players do NOT accept a deal for lower salaries this year the cap (around $198 million per team for 2020) will drop according to a pre-determined formula based on revenue for 2021. Maybe to $150 million if they have to play without fans in the stands? I would LOVE to see players slotted to make $20+ million a year, cut, and begging for $10 million a year from a new team, and whining about it!
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 3667
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
May 18th, 2020 at 2:14:26 PM permalink
I was listening to some discussion about possibility of NBA finishing playoffs and what they would entail. Big if at this point if it’ll happen at all should have some clarity within next month.

Outside of the obvious issue with if elderly/at risk coaches and staff would be able to participate and players being ready for playoffs (possibly shortened 5 game series) variance, they brought up there would/could be a huge amount of variance in the results based on what player/players on teams would potentially get the virus. Discussion was that if a player tests positive, they would be treated as an injured player out as an injured player for 2-3 weeks rest of team/teams probably continue on they’re already otherwise going to be in a quarantine type situation. Huge variance there, if Lebron/Harden go down their team is immediately done for they can’t really beat any playoff team in a series without them. Possibly minor advantage for Utah with their best two players Gobert and Mitchell (best in that order btw Mitchell is one dimensional) already infected and recovered.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
May 21st, 2020 at 3:40:21 PM permalink
a couple of sports broadcasters just a little bit past their prime reminisce about the great game of baseball........................... 😄


the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
DRich
DRich
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 12032
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
May 26th, 2020 at 9:07:49 AM permalink
I was very excited for Sunday as there was both Golf and Nascar to watch. The problem was that I was out of town visiting family so I wasn;t sure if plans would allow me to watch. It turns out that Sunday was planned to just spend the day at my daughters house while my wife and daughter cooked for everybody. I was very happy because I would get to watch both golf and Nascar.
r
When it was time I plopped down on the couch and turned their TV on. Slight problem, they don't get any channels. They only have HULU. Being an old guy I just couldn't understand how you can not have any regular channels. My day was ruined, my wife wouldn;t let me go back to the hotel to watch so I just sat in the corner and pout the rest of the day.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
May 26th, 2020 at 9:31:55 AM permalink
If it makes you feel any better, the golf match was very disappointing. I'd been looking forward to it and ended up flipping between the match and The Green Berets. I thought the bad conditions would make for a better broadcast but it was far from compelling.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
May 29th, 2020 at 3:48:29 AM permalink
Esteban Loaiza ex Yankees pitcher blew thru $44 million
up his nose and on luxury stuff
now dead broke and busted - either in jail or will be soon



https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-yankees-pitcher-blew-through-44-million-before-cocaine-bust
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
May 29th, 2020 at 9:11:36 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Esteban Loaiza ex Yankees pitcher blew thru $44 million
up his nose and on luxury stuff
now dead broke and busted - either in jail or will be soon



https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-yankees-pitcher-blew-through-44-million-before-cocaine-bust




Loazia spent fourteen years in the majors and was a Yankee for only a part of one of them, but the headline is Ex-Yankee pitcher.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
DRich
DRich
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 12032
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
Thanked by
tringlomane
May 29th, 2020 at 9:40:53 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Loazia spent fourteen years in the majors and was a Yankee for only a part of one of them, but the headline is Ex-Yankee pitcher.



The only thing I really remember about him was when he was with the White Sox he won 20 games.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Keeneone
Keeneone
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 1422
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
June 10th, 2020 at 6:16:04 PM permalink
4 days of pro golf starting up tomorrow morning (PGA Charles Schwab Challenge in Fort worth Tx.). I am looking forward to the distraction/entertainment of the event.
How many of these pros are really ready to play 4 rounds of golf in mid 90's sunny Texas weather?
https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?textField1=32.75&textField2=-97.33#.XuGFJEVKjyQ
DRich
DRich
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 12032
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
June 11th, 2020 at 8:37:03 AM permalink
Quote: Keeneone

4 days of pro golf starting up tomorrow morning (PGA Charles Schwab Challenge in Fort worth Tx.). I am looking forward to the distraction/entertainment of the event.
How many of these pros are really ready to play 4 rounds of golf in mid 90's sunny Texas weather?
https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?textField1=32.75&textField2=-97.33#.XuGFJEVKjyQ



I am also excited for golf starting back up. I will probably watch the complete TV coverage over the next four days. I made some $5 bets on a few players that have over 100-1 odds.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
  • Threads: 122
  • Posts: 11139
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
June 13th, 2020 at 11:39:03 AM permalink
Watching golf. Bryson DeChambeau is a top 20 golfer from before the pandemic. Apparently put on like 30 pounds of MUSCLE during the time off. He is now driving the ball on AVERAGE 335 yards! In any other sport you would be hearing "STEROIDS" every time he participated. He looks like a blown up version of, well, Bryson DeChambeau! 500 yard hole for me..... Driver, 3 wood, wedge..... for him... Driver, wedge!
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
Thanked by
tringlomane
June 13th, 2020 at 11:50:41 AM permalink
June 12, 1970. Dock Ellis wakes up and realizes he has no weed, but wants to get high. His team has a game that night, but he is not involved. Starting pitchers pitch every few games and his spot isn't up for two days. So Doc drops that tab of acid he'd been saving for the weekend and heads out to the ballpark. Only to find the starting pitcher has been injured and he is in fact going to start.
He takes to the mound and his first practice pitch goes about forty feet. His second is well over the catchers head.
Suddenly, he sees something he'd never noticed before. He looks deep into the catcher's mitt and realizes there is a black hole the size of a volleyball and no batter can touch a ball thrown to that spot. He tries explaining to his team but they don't get it so he shows them.
Nine innings of playing catch with his backstop later, he has pitched the only no-hitter of his career.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
michael99000
michael99000
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2113
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
June 13th, 2020 at 5:08:00 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Watching golf. Bryson DeChambeau is a top 20 golfer from before the pandemic. Apparently put on like 30 pounds of MUSCLE during the time off. He is now driving the ball on AVERAGE 335 yards! In any other sport you would be hearing "STEROIDS" every time he participated. He looks like a blown up version of, well, Bryson DeChambeau! 500 yard hole for me..... Driver, 3 wood, wedge..... for him... Driver, wedge!



Just gotta be careful it doesn’t limit his flexibility. That’s why baseball pitchers don’t get too bulky.
Keeneone
Keeneone
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 1422
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
June 14th, 2020 at 9:09:22 AM permalink
It has been a great event so far. Should be an exicting finish with the compact leaderboard.

Bryson does look a bit puffy, but there is drug testing in the PGA now. He is likely just eating more and working out a lot. I also read he is using a 5.5 degree driver and about a 10 degree 3 wood. "Normal" loft for driver would be about 9 degrees and 15 degrees for a 3 wood. He is a very unique player.
TomG
TomG
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 2428
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
June 14th, 2020 at 11:15:45 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

June 12, 1970. Dock Ellis



Here's a good first person account of that story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14

I'm certain the exact details of the game and his condition are forever lost to a drug induced haze. Dexamyl sounds like it was a good one. First comment on that youtube video is gold: he would have been listed in the boxscore as Ellis, D.

An even better clip on 1970s baseball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQbN0jFo_k
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
June 15th, 2020 at 1:40:41 AM permalink
a lot of sports bettors hungry for action have moved to "betting" on stocks - particularly on options
a great number of new accounts have been opened and they are moving the markets
no doubt a lot of them don't really understand what they are doing and are getting creamed
and some, no doubt are getting lucky, - or may possibly have some skill at it as they did when they could bet sports



from the article:




"But some Wall Street analysts see people who used to bet on sports as playing a big role in the market’s recent surge, which has largely erased its losses for the year.
“There’s zero doubt in my mind that it is a factor,” said Julian Emanuel, chief equity and derivatives strategist at the brokerage firm BTIG. “Zero doubt.”


Millions of small-time investors have opened trading accounts in recent months, a flood of new buyers unlike anything the market had seen in years, just as lockdown orders halted entire sectors of the economy and sent unemployment soaring.

It’s not clear how many of the new arrivals are sports bettors, but some are behaving like aggressive gamblers. There has been a jump in small bets in the stock options market, where wagers on the direction of share prices can produce thrilling scores and gut-wrenching losses. And transactions that make little economic sense, like buying up the nearly valueless shares of bankrupt companies, are off the charts."




https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/business/sports-gamblers-stocks-virus.html
Last edited by: lilredrooster on Jun 15, 2020
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
  • Threads: 242
  • Posts: 14154
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
June 15th, 2020 at 3:22:16 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

a lot of sports bettors hungry for action have moved to "betting" on stocks - particularly on options
a great number of new accounts have been opened and they are moving the markets
no doubt a lot of them don't really understand what they are doing and are getting creamed
and some, no doubt are getting lucky, - or may possibly have some skill at it as they did when they could bet sports



from the article:




"But some Wall Street analysts see people who used to bet on sports as playing a big role in the market’s recent surge, which has largely erased its losses for the year.
“There’s zero doubt in my mind that it is a factor,” said Julian Emanuel, chief equity and derivatives strategist at the brokerage firm BTIG. “Zero doubt.”


Millions of small-time investors have opened trading accounts in recent months, a flood of new buyers unlike anything the market had seen in years, just as lockdown orders halted entire sectors of the economy and sent unemployment soaring.

It’s not clear how many of the new arrivals are sports bettors, but some are behaving like aggressive gamblers. There has been a jump in small bets in the stock options market, where wagers on the direction of share prices can produce thrilling scores and gut-wrenching losses. And transactions that make little economic sense, like buying up the nearly valueless shares of bankrupt companies, are off the charts."




No surprise. I always maintained that the serious sports bettor and handicapper is really a frustrated trader. To get the trading jobs you have to know someone and have went to the right school. Or you can rent a seat on the floor and trade but you have to live in the expensive area near NYC I knew a guy did that, he said it is a business where you are eating Waygu Beef omelettes for breakfast one month then looking for change to buy gasoline the next. Seat rental alone costs thousands per month.

Sports betting, OTOH, gets easier and easier to place bets. The math parts are similar. So these guys, and it is almost all guys, just do serious sports bets. FWIW I had a covered call going last month or so and I was near the strike price, rooting for it to fall just a few cents per share to avoid my position being called away. It was not and I am up 50% since that day! Now it is happening again but I may buy it back.

On expiration day to watch the ticker is the same feel and rush as to watch the NFL team you took in the 4th in a close game,
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
June 30th, 2020 at 6:49:34 AM permalink
my best baseball story involves Jimmy Piersall who was a pretty good ballplayer and I saw this happen in person when I was a little kid

Piersall had mental issues and a book and a movie were made about his issues - both were called 𝘍𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘚𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘬𝘦𝘴 𝘖𝘶𝘵

I saw him play in 1962 for the Washington Senators in D.C. Stadium

he often played the clown and believe it or not I saw him several times 𝐥𝐢𝐞 𝐝𝐨𝐰𝐧 𝐢𝐧 𝐜𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐢𝐞𝐥𝐝 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐥𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐠𝐚𝐦𝐞 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐠𝐨𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐨𝐧 - while the other team was batting - it was a night game and he was lying on his back with his legs crossed and his hands behind his head looking up at the stars

it's hard to believe that the Senators Manager, Mickey Vernon let him get away with that sh.. but he did...........
maybe because the Senators were so bad he hoped Piersall's antics would boost attendance

Last edited by: lilredrooster on Jun 30, 2020
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Keeneone
Keeneone
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 1422
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
June 30th, 2020 at 7:04:15 PM permalink
Came across this story about start time errors in international baseball leading to some big wins. Investigation opened by NV gaming.

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/29389142/probe-opened-las-vegas-bettors-exploit-error-international-baseball-bets
DRich
DRich
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 12032
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
June 30th, 2020 at 7:47:44 PM permalink
Quote: Keeneone

Came across this story about start time errors in international baseball leading to some big wins. Investigation opened by NV gaming.

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/29389142/probe-opened-las-vegas-bettors-exploit-error-international-baseball-bets



Interesting, hopefully some of the bettors have already cashed their tickets.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Keeneone
Keeneone
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 1422
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
July 1st, 2020 at 8:49:39 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Interesting, hopefully some of the bettors have already cashed their tickets.


Manually entering start times into an app could easily lead to errors.
Keeneone
Keeneone
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 1422
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
July 1st, 2020 at 8:50:30 AM permalink
I asked a baseball fan friend about Piersall and his first memory of him was running the bases backwards after his 100th home run.
https://www.sportscasting.com/did-jimmy-piersall-really-run-the-bases-backwards-when-he-hit-his-100th-home-run/
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 1st, 2020 at 9:20:33 AM permalink
Quote: Keeneone

I asked a baseball fan friend about Piersall and his first memory of him was running the bases backwards after his 100th home run.
https://www.sportscasting.com/did-jimmy-piersall-really-run-the-bases-backwards-when-he-hit-his-100th-home-run/




that was a very interesting article - thanks for that
I was surprised to read this in the article:

"Stengel, however, did pay Piersall a major compliment at one point in his career, saying “I thought Joe DiMaggio was the greatest defensive outfielder I ever saw,” said Stengel, who managed DiMaggio from 1949-51. “But I have to rate Piersall better.”

I knew most of the Senators players pretty well and I didn't have any sense that he was a great fielder
I looked it up in baseball reference and the year I referred to, 1962, he played 132 games and had a .997 fielding % and made only 1 error

that is truly excellent - there are quite a few outfielders who did 1,000 for the year - no errors
but the 2nd highest career fielding % for an outfielder was .996 and Piersall topped that playing many games, although just for one year


his best year batting was 1956 with the Red Sox - his B.A. was .293 - he had 87 RBIs and 40 doubles
so yes, at his best, he was pretty damn good




https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/piersji01.shtml


https://www.baseball-almanac.com/rb_offa.shtml
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Keeneone
Keeneone
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 1422
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
July 1st, 2020 at 10:05:20 AM permalink
I really enjoyed the interview with Letterman (starts around 12:30). The part about "homer" announcers was good. And the part about being critical of "loafers" vs at least respecting "hot dogs" still applies today imo. He also states he was the first ballplayer traded for a manager.
I also saw he went 6 for 6 in a nine inning game which is pretty rare.
Unique ballplayer and person.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 1st, 2020 at 2:06:38 PM permalink
Piersall died just 3 years ago
this is a scene from the movie 𝘍𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘚𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘬𝘦𝘴 𝘖𝘶𝘵
Piersall is played by Anthony Perkins, Karl Malden plays his father
the movie got a high 7.0 rating from the voters at IMDB
you might reckon that Piersall was never actually as wild as shown here, but I suspect he probably was

the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 3rd, 2020 at 8:08:34 AM permalink
basketball memories:

Willie Allen played for Richard Montgomery H.S. in Rockville, MD and he played against my H.S.
he was surely the greatest player ever to come out of Montgomery County, MD
he got a full scholarship to Miami and was the first black player ever to play for Miami and one of the first black players ever to play for a major college in the south
he is Miami's 2nd all time leading rebounder behind Rick Barry
after graduating he became a pro playing in the A.B.A. for one year

that same H.S., Richard Montgomery, while strong in basketball was an absolute terror in football. they often went undefeated, and they were often called the best H.S. team in the country by local reporters - although they could not possibly have had a good way to compare H.S. teams

this same H.S. produced Mike Curtis, who was a ferocious linebacker and many time Pro Bowler for the Baltimore Colts


the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
  • Threads: 60
  • Posts: 5174
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
July 4th, 2020 at 9:04:02 AM permalink
The measure of a great outfielder is not his error rate (which must of course, be low) but his range and his arm.

Range is both his ability to run and and than catch the ball, but also his ability to position himself.

And arm strength and accuracy is very important.

Roberto Clemente and Joe DiMaggio had great arms. DiMaggio, Willy Mays, and guys like Cesar Geronimo had great range.

I wonder what Piersall was good at.

***************************************
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
  • Threads: 60
  • Posts: 5174
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
July 4th, 2020 at 9:42:39 AM permalink
I've always been impressed by the statistics of Jimmy Sheckard, an outfielder who played mostly for Brooklyn and the Cubs from 1897 to 1913.

In 1899, he led the majors in stolen bases with 77.

In 1901, he led the NL in triples, 19, and slugging percentage,0.534. He also had a batting average of 0.354 and 104 RBIs and 116 runs. In September he became the first player of the 20th century to slug two grand slams in one season, hitting them in consecutive games.

In 1903 he led the NL in homers (9) and the majors in stolen bases (67). That doesn't happen very often.

In 1906 and 1909 he led the majors in Sacrifice hits with 40 and 46 respectively. His 46 SHs in one season is the all-time MLB record.

In 1911, he led the majors in walks (147 and none were intentional) and the NL in runs (121) and OBP (0.434).

In 1912, he again led the majors in walks, 122.

Early in his career, he was Hit By Pitch 18 times in 1899 and 12 times in 1900.

So, during his career he led the league (or majors) in 8 different batting categories. And he constantly changed his tactics as he aged. He had an eye injury in 1908 which may have affected him.

"Sheckard also was an outstanding defensive outfielder–both SABR and STATS, Inc., selected him to their retroactive Gold Glove teams for the first decade of the Deadball Era–and the right-handed thrower’s career assist total is one of the highest in history for an outfielder. One sportswriter described Sheckard as “a marvelous workman in his pasture and one of the surest, most deadly outfielders on fly balls that ever choked a near-triple to death by fleetness of foot and steadiness of eye and grip.” Another noted that he “did clever things in the outfield in nearly every game and was in a class by himself at trapping a ball.”

“Sheckard was one of the brightest ball players in the business,” proclaimed teammate Johnny Evers, “and he was a bigger cog in the old invincible Cub machine than he ever received credit for being.”

Few have ever heard of Jimmy Sheckard but he was a great baseball player.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Jul 4, 2020
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 4th, 2020 at 10:12:57 AM permalink
Al Kaline is considered the youngest man to ever win a major league batting title, but there is at least one player who was younger.
Scouts from the Washington Senators had been watching a player in Cuba and over the winter a contract arrived in the mail for him.
Cuba was rife with revolutionary fever and the young man decided to stay home to fight communists, so he was going to decline the chance. The boy's father talked to the scouts to see if they would be watching over the boy in Florida and was told that they would not be there, so they took a chance and sent 16-year-old Tony in his 18-year-old brother's place. Tony
Oliva assumed his brother's id and when he won the 1964 Battling title as a rookie, he was really only 20, not the 22 they had him listed at.
In later years, when Tony became a US Citizen, this long-rumored tale was proven true.
These days, the opposite is true. Many Latin players try to appear younger than they are. After 2001, when the US government started paying more attention to who was in the country, more than a dozen players produced their real papers showing either they were older than listed or in at least two cases, not the person they claimed to be.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 4th, 2020 at 10:39:37 AM permalink
In high school, I was on the track and field team, tossing both shootput and discus. We were blessed by being coached part time by a man who became one of my lifelong idols-Al Oerter.
Coach Oerter was a four time Olympic champion, the only man to win Gold in four straight Olympics.He had retired after the 1968 Games but had decided to make a comeback for the 1976 games. That spring, he started adding an amazing amount of muscle but then told us the prescription steroids he was taking were messing with his heart medicine so he stopped taking them and stopped his comeback.
In 1980, he tried once again and came in fourth, even though he threw his personal best. He said everyone in the top eight but himself was on steroids.
Coach often told us how he would not have won the second of his Gold Medals without the help of his rival. You get five attempts in the Discus, with only your best score counting. After four tosses, he was in second when the man in first place pulled him aside and pointed out a flaw in Oerters follow thru. His last attempt won by almost six inches.
Mr Oerter went on to have a career as an abstract artist, and started a foundation that is currently funded by Olympic athletes creating works of art.
But I digress. ..., here is my main point.
When Coach was in college at Kansas, one of the high jumpers was a thin wisp of a man named Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt was a freshman and ineligible for basketball so he concentrated on track. One day, a loose shot put rolled into the high jump pit and Wilt casually picked it up and threw it back, softball style. Coach estimated Wilt threw in close to sixty feet on the fly. Coach's best shotput record was 58 feet. Nuff said.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 4th, 2020 at 10:56:48 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

The measure of a great outfielder is not his error rate (which must of course, be low) but his range and his arm.

Range is both his ability to run and and than catch the ball, but also his ability to position himself.

And arm strength and accuracy is very important.



that is very true and also very interesting
because those are things that are not measured by statistics

arm accuracy is only measured to the extent that the ball is so poorly thrown that it is counted as an error
but it is not measured (as far as I know) as to whether the right fielder's throw to home or 3rd to get the runner was thrown very well in the best position to tag the runner out
the velocity of his throw is also not measured - nor is the distance that the outfielder is capable of throwing

the Managers, players and astute fans just know from observing which outfielders are very good at these things and which are not




this list shows most of the different stats that are out there now - and I'm pretty sure this list may have missed some - I don't see ERA+ in this list


the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 4th, 2020 at 11:27:26 AM permalink
Quote: billryan


When Coach was in college at Kansas, one of the high jumpers was a thin wisp of a man named Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt was a freshman and ineligible for basketball so he concentrated on track. One day, a loose shot put rolled into the high jump pit and Wilt casually picked it up and threw it back, softball style. Coach estimated Wilt threw in close to sixty feet on the fly. Coach's best shotput record was 58 feet. Nuff said.



I read or heard a story somewhere about Wilt
he dunked a ball so hard -
it went thru the net and hit an opposing player's foot
𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐢𝐭 𝐛𝐫𝐨𝐤𝐞 𝐬𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐥 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐛𝐨𝐧𝐞𝐬 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐥𝐚𝐲𝐞𝐫'𝐬 𝐟𝐨𝐨𝐭






all of the criticism Wilt got - but he was a great sportsman - in some ways - and in some ways not
everybody knew he couldn't shoot fouls so he was brutally hacked for years - much worse than Hak-A-Shaq
and he never threw a punch or took a shot at an opposing player
I often saw 3 players foul (hack) him on just one play - especially the Celtics - they really brutalized him
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 4th, 2020 at 11:37:02 AM permalink
When Bret Gardner was young, he had a rocket for an arm and few would challenge him. Over the course of the season, dozens of runners would stop at second to avoid a play at third. Now his arm isn't so strong and people try to go first to third on plays they wouldn't have six years ago. He gets most assists because people run on him, which makes his stats look better, but more players going first to third means more runs will score.
Aaron Judge is going through the same thing right now.
The Dodgers of the late 70s had an infield that had amazing defensive stats, but not one of the four infielders had much range.
Many say the same thing about Derek Jeter.

I am old school. If a stat isn't on the back of a baseball card, it isn't important.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 4th, 2020 at 2:28:18 PM permalink
I'm always amazed and have a lot of fun looking at Babe Ruth's stats
of course, everybody knows what a great home run hitter he was
but do they know that in 1923 he played 152 games and batted .𝟑𝟗𝟑?

and then there's his pitching which isn't very often discussed
pitching in 1916 he went 23-12 with a 𝟏.𝟕𝟓 ERA......................................he averaged giving up .71 hits per inning that year or about 6.4 hits per game

and his lifetime pitching record was 𝟗𝟔-𝟒𝟔 and his lifetime ERA was 𝟐.𝟐𝟖

was this guy even human?


https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
July 4th, 2020 at 2:35:56 PM permalink
Ruth had a tremendous advantage with Lou Gerhig batting behind him. Without Gerhig, I think Ruth would have been walked 250-300 times a season. There will never be another combination like those two.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
  • Jump to: