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Poll

10 votes (34.48%)
1 vote (3.44%)
1 vote (3.44%)
1 vote (3.44%)
4 votes (13.79%)
2 votes (6.89%)
7 votes (24.13%)
3 votes (10.34%)

29 members have voted

odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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July 20th, 2022 at 1:10:23 PM permalink
You can vote in the poll, the question is, what would it take to convince you a dice setter can really do it ? Not a scientific experiment, but just observing at the same table.

for arguments sake, say a session is 2 hours at the table. Yeah, I know that means a lot of variation for how much you get to see one shooter.

I once observed other players were quite convinced a dice setter could influence the dice and they were following him around and passing the dice so as to minimize their own influence. At least two players were making this clear, and I felt more were in on this. I went along with it and benefited, but didn't make all that much as I stuck to betting the minimum... though with max odds and plenty of come bets.

The reason for that was that I had no idea why they were so convinced. Very easily they may have been convinced by something that wouldn't convince me, such as there being one day where the guy had lots of winning sessions. Now, for sure he did set the dice, and it did seem as though the dice were hitting the back wall very gently tossing from next to stick. So admittedly those requirements were met for me. I talked to him at the cashier line and he was definitely bragging, not just saying 'oh I was just lucky'

I would still require more than the two sessions I saw, though they came out well for him. I would be influenced no doubt if I kept betting more and winning more. If he had an occasional losing session, I would consider that normal. I probably could never get to 100% sure, but if a clear majority of sessions were winners after 20 or so, I'd consider it a good theory he could do it, or at least he's damned lucky and who cares how it is happening. I think it would be an unrealistic maybe 200 sessions to be able to say, you know, I think I did run into someone who seemed to be able to do it.

How about you?
The Dice, the cards, they not only have no sense of justice but are seemingly endowed with a sense of cruel irony. This devolves from the 'nature of random'. Ironically, don't you see. 
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
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July 20th, 2022 at 1:43:43 PM permalink
Nothing at the tables would convince me, not even the world record of 154 rolls that took over four hours. That was just extremely good luck
Itís all about making that GTA
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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July 20th, 2022 at 2:51:40 PM permalink
If the shooter is calling his shots with around 75% accuracy, I could be convinced in a few dozen throws.

If I'm still skeptical, I would hope to be indulged with a hopping hardway demonstration.
May the cards fall in your favor.
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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July 20th, 2022 at 3:01:00 PM permalink
Are you making a distinction between "setting" and "influence/control"?

tuttigym
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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July 20th, 2022 at 3:10:24 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

You can vote in the poll, the question is, what would it take to convince you a dice setter can really do it ? Not a scientific experiment, but just observing at the same table.

for arguments sake, say a session is 2 hours at the table. Yeah, I know that means a lot of variation for how much you get to see one shooter.

I once observed other players were quite convinced a dice setter could influence the dice and they were following him around and passing the dice so as to minimize their own influence. At least two players were making this clear, and I felt more were in on this. I went along with it and benefited, but didn't make all that much as I stuck to betting the minimum... though with max odds and plenty of come bets.

The reason for that was that I had no idea why they were so convinced. Very easily they may have been convinced by something that wouldn't convince me, such as there being one day where the guy had lots of winning sessions. Now, for sure he did set the dice, and it did seem as though the dice were hitting the back wall very gently tossing from next to stick. So admittedly those requirements were met for me. I talked to him at the cashier line and he was definitely bragging, not just saying 'oh I was just lucky'

I would still require more than the two sessions I saw, though they came out well for him. I would be influenced no doubt if I kept betting more and winning more. If he had an occasional losing session, I would consider that normal. I probably could never get to 100% sure, but if a clear majority of sessions were winners after 20 or so, I'd consider it a good theory he could do it, or at least he's damned lucky and who cares how it is happening. I think it would be an unrealistic maybe 200 sessions to be able to say, you know, I think I did run into someone who seemed to be able to do it.

How about you?
link to original post

A slow-motion video that shows many shots where the dice not bouncing around in a random manner enough to beat the house edge, along with some experts explaining why and how the influence is happening.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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July 20th, 2022 at 3:30:00 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: odiousgambit

You can vote in the poll, the question is, what would it take to convince you a dice setter can really do it ? Not a scientific experiment, but just observing at the same table.

for arguments sake, say a session is 2 hours at the table. Yeah, I know that means a lot of variation for how much you get to see one shooter.

I once observed other players were quite convinced a dice setter could influence the dice and they were following him around and passing the dice so as to minimize their own influence. At least two players were making this clear, and I felt more were in on this. I went along with it and benefited, but didn't make all that much as I stuck to betting the minimum... though with max odds and plenty of come bets.

The reason for that was that I had no idea why they were so convinced. Very easily they may have been convinced by something that wouldn't convince me, such as there being one day where the guy had lots of winning sessions. Now, for sure he did set the dice, and it did seem as though the dice were hitting the back wall very gently tossing from next to stick. So admittedly those requirements were met for me. I talked to him at the cashier line and he was definitely bragging, not just saying 'oh I was just lucky'

I would still require more than the two sessions I saw, though they came out well for him. I would be influenced no doubt if I kept betting more and winning more. If he had an occasional losing session, I would consider that normal. I probably could never get to 100% sure, but if a clear majority of sessions were winners after 20 or so, I'd consider it a good theory he could do it, or at least he's damned lucky and who cares how it is happening. I think it would be an unrealistic maybe 200 sessions to be able to say, you know, I think I did run into someone who seemed to be able to do it.

How about you?
link to original post

A slow-motion video that shows many shots where the dice not bouncing around in a random manner enough to beat the house edge, along with some experts explaining why and how the influence is happening.
link to original post



Of course. With variance, unless the purported DI was unreal in his ability, any good or bad result could be the result of variance.

There will be no such video, however, because there are no, nor will there ever be, legal DI who can overcome the house edge.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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July 20th, 2022 at 3:52:19 PM permalink
If you're just trying to eek a 1% advantage over the house, who cares what others think. Bye.
BillHasRetired
BillHasRetired
Joined: May 7, 2022
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July 20th, 2022 at 7:40:17 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

You can vote in the poll, the question is, what would it take to convince you a dice setter can really do it ?
{snip}
How about you?
link to original post


At the tables? That's really iffy. The guy might just want to run one good long roll (~25 rolls) and escape notice by the casino. So, maybe follow him around The Strip and watch him reel off a 25-roll session, head to the next casino, do it again, over and over. That would make it 'more probable than not', especially if spread over a full week. Coming up a consistent winner is a requirement

In the lab? I'd want to see at least a 2% edge in the Seven-to-Rolls-Ratio over 1500 rolls before I'd consider DI 'more probable than not'.

Hell, if Wizard could get someone to go to Vegas for that Two Dice thing he had last week, I'm sure someone could wrangle up the Golden Craps boys (Scoblete, Dominator, Sharpshooter, etc) to convince us all. NDAs would be required, I imagine.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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July 20th, 2022 at 8:01:18 PM permalink
BillHasRetired even if a DI surpassed all of the requirements stated by the members of this forum they would never acknowledge Dice Influencing.

They'd say "variance" was responsible for the great results.

Stop wasting your time here.
BillHasRetired
BillHasRetired
Joined: May 7, 2022
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Thanks for this post from:
Ace2odiousgambitcamaplCalderTalldude90
July 20th, 2022 at 8:13:30 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


{snip}
Stop wasting your time here.
link to original post


Life is short, but I do enjoy a friendly discussion.
When it no is no longer friendly or civilized, that's when I spend time elsewhere.
Besides, this time tomorrow, I'll be at the craps table in Cherokee.

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