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MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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October 5th, 2011 at 2:47:35 PM permalink
I would be interested in viewing whatever "proof" the casinos have of the sliding activity.

Obviously nobody saw it as it happened, so the evidence must all be from the Eye.

One must wonder if the camera has sufficient resolution to clearly show the dice sliding?

I assume it must, otherwise no claim could possibly be made against them.

Just how good, how powerful, are the cameras, and to what degree can their images be magnified, still retaining sufficient clarity?

Let's not forget that this case involves two separate claims from two different sources, each with a different burden of proof: the criminal charge (beyond a reasonable doubt) and the civil suit (preponderance of the evidence, i.e. more likely than not).

I suspect it will play out like the case against the team who used cell phones to take down a London casino at roulette: the casino came in roaring like a lion but went out meekly bleating like a lamb.
"What, me worry?"
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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October 5th, 2011 at 2:55:49 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo


What I sense is a long and determined effort by a team (of more than 2), that sliding was only happening on occasion, that distraction was occurring, and that the discovery and collection of evidence happened well after the fact. They were able to stay under the radar for a while because the slider wasn't betting big, and the frequency of the slide was low enough and not detected by the crew due to distraction. While hindsight is indeed 20-20, surveillance relies heavily on the pit to enforce this game.



I think this will turn out to be the case. Wynn probably had to go back thru the tapes because expert blockers were at work during the live sessions and surveillance happened not to be watching that table at the time. Most likely it was the two Argentinian individuals who were merely the front personnel but the excited other players who were reaching out to make bets or trying to call a bet too late or just jumping up and down excitedly and knocking chips from the rail or something who were the blockers and distractors.
reno
reno
Joined: Jan 20, 2010
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October 5th, 2011 at 3:12:25 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Doesn't matter if they were good at it. It mattered if they did it. They did.



So you'd back off all card-counters. Even counters who suck at counting cards?
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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October 5th, 2011 at 4:45:18 PM permalink
Who here, if you threw a pair a dice, and you yourself noticed one remained flat and slid without hitting the end of the table would call yourself out if the casino let it go unnoticed and you won quite a bit of money?
Everything is in high definition today except Bigfoot and UFOs
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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October 5th, 2011 at 4:47:04 PM permalink
Probably no one, rx, but it wasn't as simple as that.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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October 5th, 2011 at 4:48:02 PM permalink
Well, that would be part of the defense. How many players would call out their own mistake. You've nearly got to show collusion I think to have anything at all, especially if it's irregular over a month.
Everything is in high definition today except Bigfoot and UFOs
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 5th, 2011 at 5:03:45 PM permalink
Quote: reno

Dice-setting is only cheating if it works.



This is the slippery slope the casino is on. If you attempt
to rob a bank, and don't get any money, you still go to
jail. The casino says card counting and dice setting is
cheating, yet they only enforce it if you're winning. Is
it cheating or isn't it, make up your minds.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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October 5th, 2011 at 5:10:20 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

This is the slippery slope the casino is on. If you attempt
to rob a bank, and don't get any money, you still go to
jail. The casino says card counting and dice setting is
cheating, yet they only enforce it if you're winning. Is
it cheating or isn't it, make up your minds.




++.

If a short roll is against the rules... EVERY short roll should be a no throw. Not only if it 7's out (I've never been warned on a short roll when I chucked a 7....).

If a dice slide is against the rules, the casino should no throw every slide. If they lose to a cheat that they should have detected, they should take their chops.

Game protection is a two way street. Both to protect the player and the casino and offer a "fair" game (at least one with consistent rules for all to follow).
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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October 5th, 2011 at 5:15:50 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Who here, if you threw a pair a dice, and you yourself noticed one remained flat and slid without hitting the end of the table would call yourself out if the casino let it go unnoticed and you won quite a bit of money?

I do not call out numbers ... that is the crew's job. I do not call out "no roll"... that is the crew's job, even if my roll quite rightfully deserves it and my bankroll would desperately be pleading for it, ... its still the crew's job. I do not call "no roll" ... its not what a player does. Its like an actor who just flubbed his lines calling out "Cut". Its just improper. A Director calls Action and Cut. No one else. Ever! Even if the footage only ends up on the gag roll, the actors do not call "cut".

One box man came alive when a woman got the dice and threw them in the wrong direction but it was he who said No Roll, not the players. Clearly it was a No Roll... but despite whatever bad karma we want to visit on the woman for her maiden roll being in the wrong direction... it is still the crew's job, not the players.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 5th, 2011 at 5:22:08 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

If a dice slide is against the rules, the casino should no throw every slide.



Exactly. And if somebody is counting, he should be
backed off. The pit is very good now at spotting
counters, but they tolerate it if the counter is
losing. It looks like they tolerate the slider for
the same reason. The casino mentality is so
over powered by greed that they try and manipulate
every aspect of every game to squeeze every
last dollar out of any situation. Then they have the
gall to get on a soapbox and preach to us about
all those wascally cheaters, like they, the casino, are
are pure as the driven snow.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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