tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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June 21st, 2021 at 7:41:58 PM permalink
Mr. Ace2: You have made a statement that is reasonable regarding the come out roll as well as a valid question, so I will elaborate.

Whenever I play, regardless of the table limit, I use the "Doey/Don't on the come out simply because winning a table minimum bet at come out is not important to my over-all strategy. What that does is allows me to play Don't odds when the table is cold or the HA on the point is so great, i.e. 10 or 4, Now, I do not have to pay a vig on a lay which does the same thing. Also, I can play both sides of the table and use the Don't odds as a hedge on a "choppy" table. Does it work all the time? Of course not, but I can get more bang for my gambling buck so that when a hot shooter appears, I can take down the Don't odds during the hand. Flexibility!!

tuttigym
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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June 21st, 2021 at 7:54:06 PM permalink
Mr. Vegasrider: I am originally from Hollywood, CA, so been going to Vegas since the '50's when it was the only game around, period and a real value. Now I live in the southeast US so Biloxi is my chosen destination with huge comps for rooms, meals, and golf. I don't need the Vegas glitz or heat or expenses. Treasure Bay in Biloxi offers $2 BJ and other "carnival" card games like 3 Card Poker, Mississippi Stud, etc. One other thing, they are much more friendly there. You should try it.

tuttigym
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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June 21st, 2021 at 7:57:03 PM permalink
MrV: Now you are starting to think with some creativity, but you need to take your thoughts a few steps further out.

tuttigym
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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June 21st, 2021 at 8:17:42 PM permalink
I sometimes have 5 to 10 come-out rolls before the first point gets established. That $1 midnight bet would get crushed, unless it hit.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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June 22nd, 2021 at 3:43:43 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I sometimes have 5 to 10 come-out rolls before the first point gets established. That $1 midnight bet would get crushed, unless it hit.

Probably $5 on a $25 table. But when it does hit, it wipes out the the only time you get a loss doing the doey-don't. Hmmm. 


But the student of the game will know instantly it won't work in the long run because it is a combination of negative expectaion bets; the overall EV is always a sum of the EV of each bet. The HE against the '12' bet is quite heavy, but interestingly it still wouldn't work to beat the house long-run if it was small edge or even a fair bet with no edge. Note Tuttigym concedes " Does it work all the time?  Of course not"
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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June 22nd, 2021 at 7:01:36 AM permalink
Mr. Chump c: As an "establishment" (right side, i.e. PL player) several of those come-out rolls are probably craps which means losing that $25 PL bet every time. My play NEVER LOSES a PL wager. I have 30 come out rolls to hit that "midnight" number, and if it does not show, a reasonable probability, losing $30 over a span of 30 hands is not "crushing" to my bankroll or ego. Losing several $25 come outs to craps tosses would probably be beyond "crushing" to you though. One other thing: It's gambling.

tuttigym
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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June 22nd, 2021 at 7:08:23 AM permalink
An ill-informed gambler is the casino's best friend.
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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June 22nd, 2021 at 7:30:42 AM permalink
Mr. O: "Doey/Don't" gotcha thinking some perhaps. I am a student of the game in a more creative fashion that the "right-side establishment" player. First, for me there is no such thing as the "long run." Why? I do not know precisely what that entails: 100; 250; 500+ hands in a session? We all play in a "short term" environment and are at the mercy of the table, limited finances, style of play, luck, and lastly discipline or lack thereof. However, what I can do to TRY to beat the HA or HE is to use some SIMPLE craps math such as: point is 8; play DP odds at $18; play the Hard 8 for $9. I now have 7 ways to win and 4 ways to lose. I have a mathematical advantage of winning over the house. If I win by 7 out, it is small, $6; if I win by the Hard 8: $72, really good. If I lose with a easy 8 which happens; -$18 no big deal but fun and not "crushing". See Mr Chumpc.

p.s. I am talking about a $10 or $15 table minimum here.

tuttigym
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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June 22nd, 2021 at 7:34:41 AM permalink
Mr billryan: That's why I don't play roulette or Keno or "establishment " (right-side only) craps.

tuttigym
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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June 22nd, 2021 at 8:55:47 AM permalink
Tuttigym: it seems you enjoying hedging your bets.

In that you are not alone.

The first gambling author I read was John Patrick, and in his two books on craps, esp. "Advanced Craps" he lays out a variety of plays on both the right and the dark side, which you might enjoy looking at.

No, his methods are not "math approved" but it seems you and he think alike.
"What, me worry?"

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