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EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:07:08 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboy99

My real beef with setters, savvy or clueless both, is the way they SLOOOWWWW the pace of the game down...I like a fast tempo,



Exactly. The same thing happens in midi-bac, where they
let the big player mutilate the cards. Why do this, all it
does is slow the game to a crawl.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:16:09 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboy99

This has been an eye opener of a thread for me as a working dice dealer. While I've been aware of the DC phenomenon for years, ( I believe Mr. Scoblete held some Golden Touch seminars here in Reno in times past), I have yet to witness a consistent ability to effect the outcome regularly...maybe I haven't run into the elite so far, I don't know. I DO know that if I tell a shooter to get a bounce off the felt and off the back wall and those instructions are ignored, those shooting privileges will be lifted and he'll no longer be able to shoot. He'll be more than welcome to continue playing though. My real beef with setters, savvy or clueless both, is the way they SLOOOWWWW the pace of the game down...I like a fast tempo, and I think most experienced, non-DC players feel the same way.



THANKS for the feedback from someone in the game.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:18:44 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboy99

This has been an eye opener of a thread for me as a working dice dealer. While I've been aware of the DC phenomenon for years, ( I believe Mr. Scoblete held some Golden Touch seminars here in Reno in times past), I have yet to witness a consistent ability to effect the outcome regularly...maybe I haven't run into the elite so far, I don't know. I DO know that if I tell a shooter to get a bounce off the felt and off the back wall and those instructions are ignored, those shooting privileges will be lifted and he'll no longer be able to shoot. He'll be more than welcome to continue playing though. My real beef with setters, savvy or clueless both, is the way they SLOOOWWWW the pace of the game down...I like a fast tempo, and I think most experienced, non-DC players feel the same way.



You are right on. There is no such thing as dice control on a legal shot. DI or DC should just be renamed AC for attempted cheating.

99.9% of craps players are just there to have fun and take their chances. The 0.01% that think they can set the dice and slow the game down or berate the staff should be asked to leave for the benefit of everyone else.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:30:10 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

You are right on. There is no such thing as dice control on a legal shot. DI or DC should just be renamed AC for attempted cheating.

99.9% of craps players are just there to have fun and take their chances. The 0.01% that think they can set the dice and slow the game down or berate the staff should be asked to leave for the benefit of everyone else.

ZCore13



You sure do write a lot of garbage. Can you believe this stuff he's writing?

How often do you even see a real craps table, Zcore?

For someone who is in the business of gambling, you sure do reveal your lack of knowledge on subjects related to craps!

I don't know anyone who has been 86'd for a legal shot. I've been 86'd from two casinos (Fiesta Properties here in Vegas) related to a counting device that I used. They listed me as a card counter in their notes according to my host (I've never played a single hand of blackjack at any stations properties).

South Point disallows me from shooting due to short rolls.

Casinos generally believe in controlled shooting for short rolls. They generally don't believe in controlled shooting for legal shots (those where both dice hit the back wall).

Zcore works for a casino. I don't think there is a craps table in the casino that Zcore works in.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:34:50 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

You sure do write a lot of garbage. Can you believe this stuff he's writing?

How often do you even see a real craps table, Zcore?

For someone who is in the business of gambling, you sure do reveal your lack of knowledge on subjects related to craps!



I feel bad for you. I'll take my knowledge, experience and mental state over yours any day.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
treetopbuddy
treetopbuddy
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:36:34 PM permalink
he we go....dice setting threads have caused a contraction in the GDP
Each day is better than the next
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:36:48 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

I feel bad for you.



I don't believe you. I think you are writing lies. Maybe you believe them, but I still think you are a lying.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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Thanks for this post from:
ChumpChange
September 23rd, 2013 at 1:37:34 PM permalink
A casino can ban you, block you from playing, ask you to leave, keep you from shooting at any time and for any reason -- whether you try to influence the dice or not.

The position of the Nevada Gaming Commission is that SHOOTERS ARE ALLOWED TO TRY TO INFLUENCE, SET, AND CONTROL THE DICE as long as the following conditions are met:

1. The dice must fly in the air, off the table (to eliminated sliding)
2. The dice must bounce on the table surface at least once (to eliminate sliding)
3. The dice must hit the back wall

There is NO requirement that the dice must bounce off the back wall, or that the dice must bounce off the back wall any particular distance.

What I wrote above is how the NGC defines a "legal throw" and legal does not mean it is a written law, so you might want to use the term "acceptable throw."

BUT NOW COMES THE BIG CAVEAT:

Casinos are private businesses and if they don't want you setting, throwing, or betting they can ask you to leave and prohibit you from being there. So if a casino asks you not to set your dice -- you can't. If a casino asks that your dice must bounce off the back wall -- you have to do it.

I want to add this:

At NYNY they took the dice away from me because I was setting and winning even though my dice were bouncing all over the table. Just the act of setting and apparently winning was too much for them.

At MGM I was warned that if both dice don't hit the back wall EVEN ONCE the boxman is to take the dice away from me.

At Bellagio my dice were hitting the table and rolled softly so they came to rest against the back wall. But the table crew insisted that the dice must bounce off the back wall and when I argued with that it caused a big uproar. I won't rehash that story, but later management said the crew was wrong and just hitting the back wall was sufficient.

THE BOTTOM LINE

It doesn't matter what is a "legal" or "acceptable" throw or how the gaming regulators define it, because each house has its own rules anyway.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:43:21 PM permalink
The most likely dice table to ban you is the table that is hurting the most financially.

They want stupid people at the table making prop bets and crap checks and hi-lo's. You can even get banned for just winning too much if you go full-on-10x odds and take $100,000 or more from a casino that has $1,000 limits. They say "we don't want your action."

They can't put you in jail for not hitting the back wall, as far as I know, even if you get paid.

Once you let go of those dice and they both fly through the air and bounce down on the table and even have a chance at hitting the back wall, you're going to get paid for that if you get a favorable outcome.

But they can and will ban anyone they don't want to play, here in Nevada. They didn't give me a reason for banning me at Fiesta. They said, "we are not comfortable with your play."

I had been making $300 bets (their max) prior to them saying this to me. They cater to people who bet hop bets over there and it's a $3 table. They didn't like me there is why I think they banned me, no matter what the details.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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September 23rd, 2013 at 1:46:49 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

I'll take my knowledge, experience and mental state over yours any day.



Who offered mine to ya? Here's my proposal: why don't you stop posting about that which you do not understand? And I'm not sure what you're saying with regards to "mental state" but I take offense to that comment.

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