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Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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March 31st, 2013 at 7:30:24 PM permalink
All this time I was so frustrated, when all I had to do is realize we are only talking about dice setting alone. Things are so much simpler now knowing that someone who sets the dice gets just as random results as someone who doesn't.

Brilliant.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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March 31st, 2013 at 7:43:18 PM permalink
Alan, would you concede that the Nevada Gaming Commission Enforcement Division would have a different opinion about its legality if it were conclusively proven to them that it can be done and is being done successfully in Nevada casinos?

I am certain they would then label it as cheating ... if it really worked.

It would be a clear violation of existing law.

NRS 465.015  Definitions.  As used in this chapter:

1.  “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:

(a) The result of a game.

If they felt a player really could, via dice setting (or bone arranging, whatever label its doltish devotees care to use) "alter the elements of chance" ... hello, well-deserved gray bar hotel.

The only reason they DON'T arrest dice setters is because they, like me, find it to be little more than a non-threatening circle jerk.
"What, me worry?"
Ahigh
Ahigh
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March 31st, 2013 at 7:49:17 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

circle jerk.



I've never heard this term. What does that mean?
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
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March 31st, 2013 at 7:56:58 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Alan, would you concede that the Nevada Gaming Commission Enforcement Division would have a different opinion about its legality if it were conclusively proven to them that it can be done and is being done successfully in Nevada casinos?



No. Because the point of the game is to give the dice to the shooters.

Look, MrV I quoted those same sections of the law in my article, I discussed those same sections of the law with the NGC. Stop trying to twist it. the game of craps is what the game of craps is. The dice are given to the players to determine the outcome of the game. That's it, deal with it.

Now, the question you should be asking is this: If there were an army of dice controllers, would the traditional game of craps still be offered?

I played craps for a second time the other day over at Harrah's Rincon near San Diego. I wanted to kill some time between hourly drawings for $1,000 giveaways and craps seemed like a fun way to spend the time. By the way, I only bet the passline $5 and the fire bet for $5. No one made more than three passes. On a lark I made a few $5 hard six bets, and I hit one and made the bet $25 and that one hit for a payout of $250 and that kept me at the table for a few hours.

But I raise the point about Rincon because they have card craps. You could be the best dice controller in the world and it would do you no good, because when you throw a hard 8 the cards under the 4 and 4 could be 5 and 2 for a seven out.

There is nothing keeping the Vegas casinos from switching to card craps if too many people become true dice controllers and dice influencers. Or the casinos might have their own house rules which say "no setting" and under the law they can do that.

But dice setting and dice control -- if possible -- are considered to be "a part of the game." If a casino doesn't want it to be part of their game, so be it. So perhaps you should be asking the casino owners if they plan to outlaw dice setting. The NGC says it is okay to do it.

And I do want to say again for the record -- while I try to influence the dice I still question if there is anybody in the world who really can control or influence the dice to any measurable degree. But as I have always said, there is nothing wrong in trying.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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March 31st, 2013 at 8:11:07 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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March 31st, 2013 at 8:44:58 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I've never heard this term. What does that mean?



12 guys get in a circle, half are wearing masks
and half aren't. Face the backside of the person
in front of you and reach around his hips and
throw the dice. Good practice for your wrist,
improves hitting the back wall.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Ahigh
Ahigh
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March 31st, 2013 at 9:37:22 PM permalink
https://www.google.com/search?q=circle+jerk+site%3Awizardofvegas.com%2Fforum

It seems the two guys to use this term on the Wizard of Vegas forum are MrV (twice) and sodawater (once).

I've never heard the term before joining this forum, myself.

So I guess I'm wondering if the two people who have used this term on this forum previously intended for this to be an insult (IE: name calling) to those who they referred to in their posts as being members of said group who are in said circle.

I doubt that the reference was to any definition that would not be considered offensive by anyone fitting of the groups identified by the original posters using such term.

I'm not saying anyone is blindly calling anyone else a "faggot" for example, just saying it sure seems like name-calling to this person not familiar with the term.

If circle jerk is hereby authorized as not name calling, please let me know what the definition is so that I can use it as appropriate in this forum.

IE: moderators disambiguate please!
MrV
MrV
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March 31st, 2013 at 10:16:08 PM permalink
Ahigh, since you asked I will endeavor to dispel your ignorance; normally I would not post such crudity, but you have insisted, so here goes.

Imagine Boy Scouts are at the Jamboree, and it is raining and oh, so boring.

Imagine how someone comes up with the idea to drop trou, sit in a circle, beat off simultaneously and then annoint as "winner" he who comes first.

That's dice setting.

*my apologies to those who may have been offended by this post, but he DID ask*
"What, me worry?"
FrankScoblete
FrankScoblete
Joined: Mar 27, 2013
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March 31st, 2013 at 10:44:22 PM permalink
I do get a feeling that whatever I write can be used against me. I wish we had a "Miranda Warning" --- Frank, whatever you write will be held against you.

Anyway, Superrick, I am not retired; I just retired from Golden Touch Craps. My plate is full. Doing four major projects at once, all with time limits (writing on a truly great web site board such as this is a part of one of the projects). I also just got a feeler for a web show (those do come and go) from a pretty big network.

Now as far as selling books; I'm guilty. I do want people to read my books. I do want to sell my books. If I feel a reference to my book is relevant to the discussion (my new book is "Everything Casino Poker: Get the Edge at Video Poker, Texas Hold'em, Omaha Hi-Lo and Pai Gow Poker") then I will reference it ("Beat Blackjack Now: The Easiest Way to Get the Edge"). I don't see a problem, unless the discussion really is not proper to a book reference ("Casino Craps: Shoot to Win!") and then I won't make a book reference ("Cutting Edge Craps: Advanced Strategies for Serious Players") because that would be a distraction. I am sure that if any of you had written books, not just gambling books such as my non-gambling book "The Virgin Kiss" you would try to alert people to it. During holidays or for birthdays I would want folks to give other folks a gambling book of mine ("Casino Conquest: Beat the Casinos at Their Own Games") because that would be helpful to the person who received the book. I do not see anything weird in any of this. I'll plug television shows I'm on, or I've written, or movies I have consulted for.

Okay, so I am not retired and yes I want to sell my books.

As to someone being successful and "therefore why would he write stuff about it if he were so successful" and therefore he can't be that successful at the actual activity, just pause and give a thought. Donald Trump teaches a course in real estate at the Learning Center here in New York [whether you love him or hate him]. Well known scientists with major writing credits teach courses in science. Steven Speilberg was teaching a course in film making about a decade ago. Successful actors teach acting courses. Successful chefs teach people how to cook. It can go on and on. Ken Uston, Ed Thorp, Stanford Wong, The Wizard of Odds, all excellent players, all with books to their credit. I think it is in the nature of some of us --- certainly everybody who writes on this site and certainly everybody who writes on Facebook and certainly everybody who comments on the web on news articles, movies, books, television shows, politics, religion and so on, they, us and I want to teach others what they think.

I am not ashamed to admit that my source material for everything I write about is my own life; part of that being the experiences I have had in casinos. I hope to make these experiences written well enough to interest people. But I have written in other areas than gambling; I'm just better known for the gambling writing.

Two last things: I also went to the Nevada Casino Control Commission when I was researching a television show I was writing ("What Would You Do If?") which appeared on the Travel Channel. I wanted to know what was legal and what wasn't legal. Dice control was not illegal, as card counting was not illegal; these activities were not considered changing the nature of the game. After all, the casino gave the player the dice, right? and (here is point two) the player is under no obligation to try to deliberately lose by not trying to control the dice.

Okay, a third thing: Over the years some people have discounted the existence of the Captain because I have never revealed his name or told where he had his 147-roll hand. The judgment of such individuals was that he didn't exist and the roll never happened. Or he existed but I exaggerated his craps prowess and that roll was shorter than I said it was (I did keep an accurate record using chips and he did win what to many of us would be a fortune). Here again, a thought: This is the guy who did these things but did not want to be famous for them or take credit for them but was nice enough to teach me his ideas. He is the shining light for people who criticize those of us who enjoy spreading the word under our own names. If I hadn't written about him, then he would not have existed for anyone except the group of people who knew him. So I think he should be held up as the shining example for those who think that anyone who is successful at gambling should keep their mouths shut.
24Bingo
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
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March 31st, 2013 at 10:53:32 PM permalink
At 147, just seven short of the record, he wouldn't have been able to keep it secret, because the house would have put it out. On what planet would they not try to capitalize on a table that "hot"?
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.

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