The casino makes good money off of those proposition bets... Who cares if a dealer will have to work less.. They dont mind taking time to put up those prop bets... Which further proves the DI is costing money because now they have people on the clock doing minimal work!!! Employee salary should be at about 5 percent and if you are making fewer bets and it's not generating as much revenue..
It's like a restaurant.. They make money by 'turning' tables.. Just because a customer comes in every week and orders one drink, doesn't make them a "good customer"... If they are sitting at a table for 3 hours, after a while, they have started to cost you money. Same with a casino... the casino has a dilemma, of losing one customer to gain more
I have no special skills involving DI, but I just don't like to throw them like a girl. I don't buy in at crowded tables but they do fill up during play, that's another reason to exit.
It seems to me that a long roll causes those prop bets to grow and grow, taking more and more time. The whole table filling up with prop wager's, player's being payed, pressing, late entrants to the game buying in. It takes over a minute for the stick person to get ready, after splitting them for the box man to almost give me the dice back. Then somebody decides they want some hop bets. The box is hard of hearing as I am, bettor not loud or clear, repeats wager, box confirms. There's thousands on the place and line, hundreds on the props and they're messing around with 5 one dollar bets on the hop. Then finally the stick slides the dice toward me, about 18 inches out so I gotta really reach and tells me to hurry up and roll! Gotta love it. In my head I do consider letting "em fly right off the table and requesting same die. Just trying to have a little fun, that's why we're all here right?
They ought to not have prop bet's except on the come out.
1. Random rollers take longer to throw the dice than those who try dice influencing or dice control. Anyone who has practiced setting dice can set the dice in two seconds or less. I've written about this many times: as the dice are pushed to me I know exactly how to rotate the faces to create my set and I can throw the dice almost instantly.
It's the random shooters who do all kinds of strange things such as rolling the dice in front of them, making all sorts of changes in the set, asking their girl to kiss the dice, picking up the dice and shaking them, calling out for cocktails, drinking their beer between throws, calling out to their friends at the other tables, chanting, saying gimme a six (or whatever the point is), or changing their bets while they have the dice in their hands.
I really doubt that anyone who has studied DI or DC would do any of that.
I've been at tables where random shooters went through a routine that was so long and so drawn out it took nearly a full minute for the dice to get in the air-- and then they went off the table.
Stop saying DIs delay the game.
2. A couple of months ago at Caesars when I had made my fifth point on the fire bet and I was now going for point number six, I took my sweet ass time and the dealers let me do it. I was the only player at the table with a fire bet and when another player at the table complained I was taking so long, a dealer explained what was at stake for me. Each successive throw they let me set the dice, take deep breaths, take my time... no pressure at all.
3. I've been told to leave both NYNY and Bellagio. At NYNY they took the dice away from me for setting even though I hit the back wall every time and my dice were bouncing all over the place. When the box and stick said they didn't like setting I asked if they believe it works and they said yes. After the next pass the boxman said "you're through."
At Bellagio they refused to pay my bets because the dice didn't bounce off the wall far enough (they came to rest against the wall) and when a floor person at another table told the crew at my table to pay the bets the crew got into a shouting fight with the floor person and I was told to leave while they fought it out. Later Bellagio management apologized to me and said the crew was being "retrained." Ironically I was losing money when I had the lucky rolls with the dice leaning against the back wall. When I played again at the Bellagio a few months later a floorman made it obvious to me I wasn't welcomed there.
At MGM I had one monster roll.. and after that a floorman would go to any table I was at and tell the boxman that if I missed the back wall even once to take the dice from me, though I was welcome to bet. On a visit several months later as soon as I stepped up to the table to buy in, two suits and two security guards walked up to the table to watch me. I never shot that day. Didn't have to. My sister (a random roller) shot first and held the dice for about 35 minutes. We cashed out and left.
4. I never had a problem at Caesars, though one time many years ago, a boxman (they had boxmen then) reminded me to hit the back wall with both dice. That was the only time anything was ever said. And if you play there you know they do not enforce hitting the back wall with both dice -- they only ask that you make a reasonable effort to hit the back wall with both dice. Obviously if you don't hit the back wall everytime they will notice.
Stop saying DIs delay the game.
DIs are cheating.
DIs are cheating.
Now why would you say DIs are cheating? And I hope that you're not going to start with that silly argument that any attempt to change the odds of the game is cheating, because the Enforcement Division of the Nevada Gaming Commission IS ON RECORD that it is okay to set the dice and use a controlled throw BUT the casinos do not have to let you throw. Just like with blackjack counters: it is LEGAL to count cards, but the casinos do not have to let you play.
And if your losing money, how much does it hurt the bottom line. At big properties probably barely a dent, unless they come in and win consistently everyday. This always bothers me about where I work. They sweat a $2000 deficit on the table. Also, a guy had a purple stolen from him. His own fault since he left his chips on the craps table. Surveillance caught it, but the guy doesn't wanna press charges and they won't reimburse him (which they don't really have to) but if he never comes back then they lost a lot more than 500. At least give the guy some free slot play.
Are you saying it's his fault because he had chips sitting in the chip rail?
Is the theft really that bad is Vegas? If it was Vegas?
Thanks for the heads up.
I hope that you're not going to start with that silly argument that any attempt to change the odds of the game is cheating ... Just like with blackjack counters: it is LEGAL to count cards, but the casinos do not have to let you play.
Ah, but there is a significant difference between card counting and dice setting.
A card counter, when counting correctly, achieves an edge against the house only, and his play does not mathematically affect the results which other players can reasonably expect.
A dice setter, IF IN FACT DICE SETTING ACTUALLY WORKED, would negatively affect the result which others at the craps table would otherwise expect.
For example, setting for seven on the come out, IF IT WORKED, would be "cheating" a dark sider on that roll.
Take a look at the article:
DICE CONTROL: IS IT LEGAL? IS IT POSSIBLE?
Update May 3, 2011
Yes, it's almost two years ago that this came up AGAIN because people like you just don't want to accept what the game of craps is all about.
So once again I am going to repeat the OFFICIAL position of the Nevada Gaming Commission Enforcement Division. Ready? Will you let this sink in, please? Here it is, in Q and A format with the NGC on the record:
Q: "Does the Gaming Commission then consider "dice setting" to fall under the definition of "cheating"?
A: "No, as long as the dice fly in the air, bounce on the table, and hit the back wall. In some cases the casinos are lenient about the dice not hitting the back wall, and these are still legal throws, no cheating."
I also asked the regulators in Michigan and New Jersey and they said the same thing but I do not have exact quotes from them.
If you want to read the entire article, please do.
Then give it a rest.
You might not think dice setting and a controlled throw works, but with the exception of a slide or whipshot it's not illegal and it doesn't violate any rule of the game.