Can You Be Banned for Dice Control? Have Casinos Done This?

Quote: Zcore13

You really should learn the game. Short rolls are not a legal shot. They might be allowed sometimes, just like driving over the speed limit, but neither is legal. It's too bad you lose so much money on a game you you can't seem to understand. Casinos love your type.

ZCore13

Quote: Ahigh

Additionally, the rules, laws, and so on that I am familiar with are those of Las Vegas,.

Quote: EvenBob

It's the same in any casino anywhere, no short
rolls. What's Vegas got to do with it.

Quote: Zcore13

It's too bad you lose so much money on a game you you can't seem to understand. Casinos love your type.

Quote: Ahigh

Even if I got to the point of attending a meeting for people who have gambling problems, I assure you that I would not be asking for your help.

Quote: Zcore13

All I can say to you is wow

Quote: AlanMendelson

Do you think you have a gambling problem?

Quote: Ahigh

I am absolutely 100% sure this topic is outside of the domain of your or anyone else's business on this forum.

Quote: EvenBob

I can categorically
state I don't have one. You apparently can't.

Quote: Ahigh

Let me make a liar out of you. .

Quote: AlanMendelson

At NYNY they took the dice away from me because I was setting and winning even though my dice were bouncing all over the table. Just the act of setting and apparently winning was too much for them.

At MGM I was warned that if both dice don't hit the back wall EVEN ONCE the boxman is to take the dice away from me.

At Bellagio my dice were hitting the table and rolled softly so they came to rest against the back wall. But the table crew insisted that the dice must bounce off the back wall and when I argued with that it caused a big uproar. I won't rehash that story, but later management said the crew was wrong and just hitting the back wall was sufficient.

Quote: Ahigh

I will add that if I did develop a gambling problem in the future,

Quote: Ahigh

To the original question posed...

You can ABSOLUTELY be banned from ANY casino for ANY reason here in Las Vegas, including even just a SUSPICION that you have a player edge at dice..

Quote: Beethoven9th

Did these 3 incidents occur recently (i.e., the past few months or so)? It seems like a bunch of places in Vegas are "cracking down" on shooters, but I wasn't sure if it was just all in my head or not.

Quote: Buzzard

Gamblers' Anonymous asks its new members twenty questions:
.

Quote: Buzzard

All except the last one:

Have you ever considered self-destruction as a result of your gambling?

Quote: Ahigh

I am absolutely 100% sure this topic is outside of the domain of your or anyone else's business on this forum.

Quote: Beethoven9th

Ahigh, do you play craps at Encore? I personally can't stand the dealers at the Wynn, but the ones at Encore are much better (which is kinda strange since it's basically the same company). Encore doesn't give shooters as much crap about short rolls, at least when I've been there.

Quote: Ahigh

I will add that if I did develop a gambling problem in the future, it's not a subject or topic of conversation for this forum... This forum should be for discussing the process of gambling, not the personal lives of those who choose to gamble.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Why did YOU bring it up?

Quote: Zcore

You didn't mention the name of the person you are referring to, but I bet you I can guess. And he criticized me for trying to tell him I've seen it a thousands of times.

Hopefully he can stop himself. He's said multiple times he's going to stop giving information about his wins/losses and he can't do it for more than a few days in a row.

Quote: Zcore

It's too bad you lose so much money on a game you you can't seem to understand.

Quote: Zcore

I agree. I see it every day. There are 3 things that can completely ruin your life if you are not careful... drugs, alcohol and gambling. There are plenty of other things that can disrupt your life and make your life difficult, but drugs, alcohol and gambling to excess are life changing and devastating. I don't wish the problems from these 3 addictions on anyone. Even if you don't lose all your money, you generally start losing jobs, relationships, friends and family over it.

Quote: FrankScoblete

First let me make a distinction between “dice setting” and controlled shooting. A tremendous number of players set the dice this way, that way, some other way. This is nothing more than just setting the dice. Often these “dice setters” will wing the dice down the table where they bounce all over the place after hitting the back wall. Nothing but a random game here.

The dice controller (dice influencer) on the other hand not only sets the dice but takes care with his roll. Here the object isn’t just a dice set but some control of the outcome of a roll. No longer a totally random game in this case.

Can a “dice setter” be thrown out of the casinos? Yes. I’ve never personally seen a plain, old dice setter who does not have a controlled throw bounced (other than for drunkenness or that kind of thing). I’ve never seen a drink spilled on someone who has had hot rolls in order to cool him off, whether that someone is merely a dice setter or a dice controller. Why bother losing beverage money when the “tap on the shoulder” can start the heave-ho-ing? (Note: Alan Mendelson mentioned in a post that he got the “tap” at several Vegas casinos and he had no dice control skill. So he is the exception to my experience.)

Yes, a dice controller can be barred (“Sir, you can play any other game in the casino but you cannot shoot the dice at craps.”) or banned. (“If you come back to this casino in the future you will be arrested for trespassing.”) Although casinos in Vegas, other Nevada venues, Mississippi and in most of the Midwest casinos don’t have to give a reason, they usually do. (“Sir, you are too good for us.”)

Sadly both things have happened to me. In Tunica, in a single week, I was banned from every casino. (I have the full story of this in my book The Virgin Kiss.) I was threatened with arrest if I returned (the banning in Fitzgerald’s was nasty; the banning at the Grand – now Harrah’s – was almost comical – it took eight suits to do it; the banning at Sam’s Town was weird because I hadn’t even started playing) and the pit boss at Gold Strike let me know that no matter what casino I went into I would get the heave-ho. He was right. I went into three more and out I was escorted. They didn’t want my play in Mississippi. This was for craps by the way. Most were “trespassing” offenses (if I came back I would get arrested for trespassing) and a couple were a little scary (although the scariest banning that ever happened to me was in the early 1990s in Vegas).

I know many of you have seen “My Cousin Vinny” and you think it is a comedy. It’s actually a documentary. I do not want to go to jail in Mississippi.

The following year I went down to Tunica to teach a dice control class. We had 40 students. The sheriff’s department came to the non-casino hotel where we were going to hold the class and told me that I would be arrested if I held the class because I would be using “gaming tables” to teach the students on and there was some kind of “Faro” law from the 1800’s that banned gaming tables for private use.

My lawyer said we would win the case hands-down as we had won a case in the early 2000’s where we were also threatened with arrest for teaching how to beat the casinos. (“No one is allowed to teach people the casino games in Mississippi unless you are a dealers’ school.”) We took that case to the Mississippi attorney general who realized it was a “free speech” case and he withdrew the charges. Still, it cost a small fortune to establish “free speech” in Mississippi. This victory allowed other dice control teachers to continue with their classes.

My lawyer also told me that Mississippi would keep bringing up reasons to arrest me even though they would lose every case. His view was that the state was only interested in harassing me by costing me lawyers’ fees. He recommended that we move our classes to Tennessee which we did. I haven’t set foot in Mississippi since, although I am glad that Mississippi has finally passed the 13th Amendment to the Constitution in recent years which was the Amendment that outlawed slavery. (http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/270499/1/Mississippi-Ratifies-13th-Amendment-148-Years-After-Slavery-Abolished)

We hired buses and drove all of our students into Tennessee. As I just said, I haven’t stepped foot in Mississippi since.

My most recent banning for craps was at Bellagio in Las Vegas. The full story of that banning will be in my next book. It was a really nasty banning shared with Jerry “Stickman,” John “Skinny,” and “Not Too Soon.” I mean a really nasty, nasty banning.

Those writers who claim that no one has ever been banned for dice control just haven’t experienced it or don’t know anyone who has been unfortunate enough to be “asked” to leave the casinos or threatened with arrest should they return. Trust me, it is not fun. Trust me, it has happened.

Although Atlantic City cannot technically ban an advantage player, it can make your play a PITA (pain-in-the-ass). One night in 2002 or 2003 (memory fails at the moment), John “Skinny” in front of 10 witnesses was almost physically assaulted by a Pit Boss named Francis at the Claridge. John is an excellent dice controller and had just rolled his 26th number. He is also a BIG bettor, often orange chips. The dice scooted over to the box person’s side of the table, out of the view of Francis who was hovering over the game like a buzzard. Francis leaped over to the table and started yelling at Skinny.

We had about eight other people at the table including Marilyn “the Goddess,” Charlie “Sandtrap,” Jack “the Raging Baritone,” Dominator, Jerry “Stickman” and some others whose names I have forgotten at the moment.

John “Skinny” had indeed hit the back wall with both dice. We all saw that, as did the dealers. But when asked about it, the dealers stayed mum – obviously they didn’t want to contradict their raging boss. Several rolls later, Skinny did miss the back wall. At that point, Francis leapt across the table – and I mean across the table with his whole body – going after Skinny who backed up. If I were writing fiction I’d have had Francis foaming at the mouth during this encounter. He wasn’t foaming, just slobbering and spitting.

Francis said he would take the dice away from Skinny if he missed the back wall again. The floor person and box person helped Francis get off the table. Skinny sevened out a few rolls later and took all his orange chips and colored up. We all colored up.

There was a casino manager at Trump Plaza who also tended to go berserk when we played there – this was probably eight years ago. He’d come down and start threatening to take the dice away if we missed the back wall. For some strange reason, some casino people (and some players) think that is what a dice controller is trying to do – miss the back wall. Not so. Since the throw is geared to hitting the back wall, a back wall miss is probably just a random throw. (I am discounting those few players who can actually do a “kill shot.”) I have information about the back wall in “Cutting Edge Craps.” It isn’t always what it seems.

Maybe the all time record for being barred for craps happened at Bally’s in Vegas when 17 of us – yes 17 of us – playing at two different tables were “asked” to leave in a most disgraceful way. It seems both tables had shooters who were wickedly on fire – happily I was one of them. The casino was losing a lot of money. (Not all dice controllers are small bettors although that is another myth that seems to have circulated.) The suits and security guards came over in force. They stopped the game. They surrounded us.

Since true nastiness reigned during this, one of our players Arman “Pit Boss,” got into a face-to-face shouting match with the casino manager. If Arman had gone totally nuts (he’s a former soccer player and strong as a former soccer player), that casino manager would have been toast. We pulled him away and all 17 of us left the casino.

I am now writing a chapter in a new book about the experiences I have had in the area of ungracious behavior by casinos. I go into detail about such cases.

Why did my bannings happen? I only have myself to blame. I ruined myself in Tunica because I kept going back and back and back for more. I should have lessened the length of my stays, not played at the same casinos time and time again. I didn’t follow my own advice. Same thing happened at Bellagio. Same at Treasure Island. Same at other Vegas casinos. But I’ve also experienced (too many times!), the tap for blackjack as well.

Quote: MrV

YOU are the one who cannot shut up about his personal life; you've posted many photos of your home, car and family on gambling boards and youtube.

So your personal life is not so sacrosanct, is it?

Whether you have a gambling problem would seem arguably relevant, as it could affect your motivation viz. your ongoing inquiry into whether dice setting can be scientifically proven.

An addict might be tempted to fudge the results, e.g. False Hope could lead you to conclude it is real, when results show otherwise.

But carry on, we're all Bozos on this bus.

Quote: Ahigh

Just like your photo of a clown in a bus is a personal insult.

Quote: EvenBob

4. Bozo jokes.

Quote: Ahigh

Just like your photo of a clown in a bus is a personal insult. That's a perfect example of the kind of personal insult that I wish not to be a topic of conversation.

Quote: thecesspit

and don't think I saw I didn't see what you did just now with MrV's photo... oh so mature.

Quote: Ahigh

.

Quote: Ahigh

You mean showing it? I consider this to be an appropriate thing as far as something that is personal (showing a personal photo of someone without saying something mean).

Quote: thecesspit

You know damn well what you did before editing the post further.

I'm pretty sure saying 'we are all bozos on this bus' is a general implied comment about us all. Not about you. Cos, Aaron... it's not all about you.

Quote: thecesspit

You know damn well what you did before editing the post further.

Quote: Ahigh

Actually, I have to tell you that I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Anyone else have any idea what he's talking about?
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