darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 19th, 2019 at 9:31:10 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

If there was ever any doubt that police officers act as agents of the casino rather than law enforcement officers in casino police interactions...



I have my own documentation that police act that way

Which is why I couldn't call them in to investigate the theft of my cards
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
heatmap
heatmap
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 2286
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
Thanked by
AxelWolfRS
April 19th, 2019 at 9:41:33 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: RS

You’re like 0 for 100 when it comes to knowing what actually happens in casinos. Not every casino is run the way the two casinos you’ve worked for are run. And speaking of irony, SCG is actually a credible source.



That's kind of strange, since everything I predict and get criticized for here comes true.

I could name half a dozen things off the top of my head.

And SCG is not a credible source on this story. I guarantee it's far from the true story. Where's any proof that it happened that way? Police report? Lawsuit? Court filings? Witnesses? Video of the conversation with the gaming board? Receipt for the money they took? Anything?


ZCore13

I don't care what happened that lead up to this. He shouldn't be on this or any forum saying or showing anything. I find it strange someone like him would do that. He needs to stop posting and contact a lawyer or someone that can help him and then tell his story after it's all figured out one way or the other. I don't know why you think this stuff doesn't and cant happen? You only need one person to make a bad call for something like this to happen. It seems to me that once a security guard or management makes a bad decision even others who know its probably the wrong decision they will back that person up and.



It can and does happen, I just don't believe his story. Give me a realistic description of what happened and I can believe it. Heck, I'll help with any info I can give or get. Come in with some proof. Something more realistic than I copied and pasted this so I don't care about the spelling. Lol. I hear stuff like this every night. Then I look up the info and it's not even close.


ZCore13

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/497562399700942860/568565756057354250/video.mov

Here ya go. To me, it looks like what he is saying is absolutely true. Of course, you are now going to say there was some kind of back story he wasn't telling us.

Unless he was cheating at the time he won the 80k in chips or was not 21 there's absolutely no reason they should have tried to keep his chips or not cashed them. And if he was cheating, they should have detained him and called the athoritues. It's obvious they did not suspect him of cheating.

Give me a GOOD reason they should not have cashed his chips?




Haha hahaha hahaha haha oh ZCore you sad sad man when will you ever stop trusting yourself. The only reason you think you were right and succeeded in life is because your employer wanted to set you up for failure as soon as you left them. They have misguided you and you have built a false sense of superiority beyond any reasonable logic presented to your face. It’s trust but verify not distrust call names and say whatever stupid stuff comes out of your mouth and this is coming from someone who says just as much equally stupid stuff but I always have proof to back my stupid stuff up at least with a patent and Not some thing someone posted from another forum which makes you think their wrong.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22296
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
April 19th, 2019 at 9:49:45 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

If there was ever any doubt that police officers act as agents of the casino rather than law enforcement officers in casino police interactions...

For the most part I have found that the police oftentimes remain indifferent. They tent to take the word of the casino over yours. However, they never arrest security guards when they assult customers. If you assult them, you will get arrested.


Gaming control has been more than fair in almost all disputes I have been involved in. I can only think of one time they were totally wrong when I had to call them.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
Thanked by
Hunterhill
April 19th, 2019 at 9:52:12 AM permalink
This is the type of supreme court case I would like to see.

Certainly the US government in giving the tribes autonomy did not intend for them to rob US citizens while utilizing the US territory police to enforce the theft and trespassing laws.

Can a US citizens constitutional rights be considered null and void on Indian territory to this extent while the tribe simultaneously utilizes US law enforcement to enforce its sovereignty
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
rainman
rainman
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 1884
Joined: Mar 28, 2012
April 19th, 2019 at 10:13:21 AM permalink
Is this the same SmallCap that was on an episode of GWAE? If so, very interesting guy great life story.
Last edited by: rainman on Apr 19, 2019
michael99000
michael99000
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2113
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
April 19th, 2019 at 10:53:12 AM permalink
Quote: rainman

Is this the same SmallCap that was on an episode of GWAE? If so very interesting guy great life story.




It must not be him then.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
  • Threads: 60
  • Posts: 5175
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
Thanked by
AxelWolf
April 19th, 2019 at 11:54:17 AM permalink
The two Indian casinos (both operated by Harrahs) in North Carolina are the perfect storm.

1. North Carolina has no other kinds of gambling and so has no bureaucracy of any kind to regulate gaming. They have no state bureaucrats that have any expertise or interest in overseeing the enforcement of game integrity - the State government's only interest is in verification that they are getting their full share of casino gaming profits.

2. The casinos are on the edge of the state, far from NC population centers and accessible only by difficult roads. Out of sight, out of mind.

3. They do indeed make a ton of money (comparable to major LV Strip casinos) a fraction of which goes to North Carolina (for schools), and the bulk of it comes from out-of-state: Atlanta, Tennessee and Virginia. Ka-ching!

4. The Eastern Band of Cherokees host/regulate no other casinos. Their share of the revenue from these casinos are their financial heroin.

5. These casinos have zero competition. They are infamous for their pathetic comps and surly attitude to patrons.

6. The casinos are located in Appalachia, the people of which have a long-standing culture of corruption and sketchy law enforcement. For Nevada/New Jersey effetes like Zcore and FBCLCommish, this may seem to be meaningless, but it is not. Think moonshiners. Recall the movie "Deliverance." These are popular symbols of something that is a reality in the hard-scrabble poverty of Appalachia: local people take care of themselves and their neighbors and they wink at the law. And when outsiders like Zcore travel through Appalachia they find themselves in a strange land where they don't know the customs and rules - and where sometimes they are made to squeal like a pig.

This does not mean that we know that these casinos cheat and/or harvest their patrons' money in unethical ways. But if you were to do a thoughtful analysis in order to define which North American casinos would be the most likely to cheat, I suspect that your "pin in the map" would be placed in Cherokee, North Carolina.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Zcore13
Zcore13
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 3819
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
April 19th, 2019 at 3:36:10 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: RS

You’re like 0 for 100 when it comes to knowing what actually happens in casinos. Not every casino is run the way the two casinos you’ve worked for are run. And speaking of irony, SCG is actually a credible source.



That's kind of strange, since everything I predict and get criticized for here comes true.

I could name half a dozen things off the top of my head.

And SCG is not a credible source on this story. I guarantee it's far from the true story. Where's any proof that it happened that way? Police report? Lawsuit? Court filings? Witnesses? Video of the conversation with the gaming board? Receipt for the money they took? Anything?


ZCore13

I don't care what happened that lead up to this. He shouldn't be on this or any forum saying or showing anything. I find it strange someone like him would do that. He needs to stop posting and contact a lawyer or someone that can help him and then tell his story after it's all figured out one way or the other. I don't know why you think this stuff doesn't and cant happen? You only need one person to make a bad call for something like this to happen. It seems to me that once a security guard or management makes a bad decision even others who know its probably the wrong decision they will back that person up and.



It can and does happen, I just don't believe his story. Give me a realistic description of what happened and I can believe it. Heck, I'll help with any info I can give or get. Come in with some proof. Something more realistic than I copied and pasted this so I don't care about the spelling. Lol. I hear stuff like this every night. Then I look up the info and it's not even close.


ZCore13

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/497562399700942860/568565756057354250/video.mov

Here ya go. To me, it looks like what he is saying is absolutely true. Of course, you are now going to say there was some kind of back story he wasn't telling us.

Unless he was cheating at the time he won the 80k in chips or was not 21 there's absolutely no reason they should have tried to keep his chips or not cashed them. And if he was cheating, they should have detained him and called the athoritues. It's obvious they did not suspect him of cheating.

Give me a GOOD reason they should not have cashed his chips?




Haha hahaha hahaha haha oh ZCore you sad sad man when will you ever stop trusting yourself. The only reason you think you were right and succeeded in life is because your employer wanted to set you up for failure as soon as you left them. They have misguided you and you have built a false sense of superiority beyond any reasonable logic presented to your face. It’s trust but verify not distrust call names and say whatever stupid stuff comes out of your mouth and this is coming from someone who says just as much equally stupid stuff but I always have proof to back my stupid stuff up at least with a patent and Not some thing someone posted from another forum which makes you think their wrong.



So I have an opinion different than yours and you find it necessary to get personal?


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Zcore13
Zcore13
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 3819
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
April 19th, 2019 at 3:47:21 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: RS

You’re like 0 for 100 when it comes to knowing what actually happens in casinos. Not every casino is run the way the two casinos you’ve worked for are run. And speaking of irony, SCG is actually a credible source.



That's kind of strange, since everything I predict and get criticized for here comes true.

I could name half a dozen things off the top of my head.

And SCG is not a credible source on this story. I guarantee it's far from the true story. Where's any proof that it happened that way? Police report? Lawsuit? Court filings? Witnesses? Video of the conversation with the gaming board? Receipt for the money they took? Anything?


ZCore13

I don't care what happened that lead up to this. He shouldn't be on this or any forum saying or showing anything. I find it strange someone like him would do that. He needs to stop posting and contact a lawyer or someone that can help him and then tell his story after it's all figured out one way or the other. I don't know why you think this stuff doesn't and cant happen? You only need one person to make a bad call for something like this to happen. It seems to me that once a security guard or management makes a bad decision even others who know its probably the wrong decision they will back that person up and.



It can and does happen, I just don't believe his story. Give me a realistic description of what happened and I can believe it. Heck, I'll help with any info I can give or get. Come in with some proof. Something more realistic than I copied and pasted this so I don't care about the spelling. Lol. I hear stuff like this every night. Then I look up the info and it's not even close.


ZCore13

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/497562399700942860/568565756057354250/video.mov

Here ya go. To me, it looks like what he is saying is absolutely true. Of course, you are now going to say there was some kind of back story he wasn't telling us.

Unless he was cheating at the time he won the 80k in chips or was not 21 there's absolutely no reason they should have tried to keep his chips or not cashed them. And if he was cheating, they should have detained him and called the athoritues. It's obvious they did not suspect him of cheating.

Give me a GOOD reason they should not have cashed his chips?



Still more to the story. I don't know what it is, but there is a reason they did not cash them that day. Their reason may not be legitimate when it's all said and done, but something is still missing.

If I was him I would call the Casino GM and ask for the reason he can not cash his chips (if he wasn't already told). If after a few days they still won't cash, that's been plenty of time to review his situation or investigate anything they think he did. Then you get an Attorney.

The one thing you don't do is talk about it on a public forum. Anything you post, write or accuse can be used against you. Bad idea. Hopefully he gets his chips cashed and he won't have to worry about it.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
michael99000
michael99000
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2113
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
April 19th, 2019 at 3:47:55 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Quote: heatmap

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: RS

You’re like 0 for 100 when it comes to knowing what actually happens in casinos. Not every casino is run the way the two casinos you’ve worked for are run. And speaking of irony, SCG is actually a credible source.



That's kind of strange, since everything I predict and get criticized for here comes true.

I could name half a dozen things off the top of my head.

And SCG is not a credible source on this story. I guarantee it's far from the true story. Where's any proof that it happened that way? Police report? Lawsuit? Court filings? Witnesses? Video of the conversation with the gaming board? Receipt for the money they took? Anything?


ZCore13

I don't care what happened that lead up to this. He shouldn't be on this or any forum saying or showing anything. I find it strange someone like him would do that. He needs to stop posting and contact a lawyer or someone that can help him and then tell his story after it's all figured out one way or the other. I don't know why you think this stuff doesn't and cant happen? You only need one person to make a bad call for something like this to happen. It seems to me that once a security guard or management makes a bad decision even others who know its probably the wrong decision they will back that person up and.



It can and does happen, I just don't believe his story. Give me a realistic description of what happened and I can believe it. Heck, I'll help with any info I can give or get. Come in with some proof. Something more realistic than I copied and pasted this so I don't care about the spelling. Lol. I hear stuff like this every night. Then I look up the info and it's not even close.


ZCore13

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/497562399700942860/568565756057354250/video.mov

Here ya go. To me, it looks like what he is saying is absolutely true. Of course, you are now going to say there was some kind of back story he wasn't telling us.

Unless he was cheating at the time he won the 80k in chips or was not 21 there's absolutely no reason they should have tried to keep his chips or not cashed them. And if he was cheating, they should have detained him and called the athoritues. It's obvious they did not suspect him of cheating.

Give me a GOOD reason they should not have cashed his chips?




Haha hahaha hahaha haha oh ZCore you sad sad man when will you ever stop trusting yourself. The only reason you think you were right and succeeded in life is because your employer wanted to set you up for failure as soon as you left them. They have misguided you and you have built a false sense of superiority beyond any reasonable logic presented to your face. It’s trust but verify not distrust call names and say whatever stupid stuff comes out of your mouth and this is coming from someone who says just as much equally stupid stuff but I always have proof to back my stupid stuff up at least with a patent and Not some thing someone posted from another forum which makes you think their wrong.



So I have an opinion different than yours and you find it necessary to get personal?


ZCore13



While reading heatmaps posts..

Keep in mind he also believes switching to 2 hands is effective in changing a cold bj shoe.

And that when he bets a side bet in bj , he’s always going to win at least that bet or the main bet.
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 19th, 2019 at 4:07:30 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: RS

You’re like 0 for 100 when it comes to knowing what actually happens in casinos. Not every casino is run the way the two casinos you’ve worked for are run. And speaking of irony, SCG is actually a credible source.



That's kind of strange, since everything I predict and get criticized for here comes true.

I could name half a dozen things off the top of my head.

And SCG is not a credible source on this story. I guarantee it's far from the true story. Where's any proof that it happened that way? Police report? Lawsuit? Court filings? Witnesses? Video of the conversation with the gaming board? Receipt for the money they took? Anything?


ZCore13

I don't care what happened that lead up to this. He shouldn't be on this or any forum saying or showing anything. I find it strange someone like him would do that. He needs to stop posting and contact a lawyer or someone that can help him and then tell his story after it's all figured out one way or the other. I don't know why you think this stuff doesn't and cant happen? You only need one person to make a bad call for something like this to happen. It seems to me that once a security guard or management makes a bad decision even others who know its probably the wrong decision they will back that person up and.



It can and does happen, I just don't believe his story. Give me a realistic description of what happened and I can believe it. Heck, I'll help with any info I can give or get. Come in with some proof. Something more realistic than I copied and pasted this so I don't care about the spelling. Lol. I hear stuff like this every night. Then I look up the info and it's not even close.


ZCore13

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/497562399700942860/568565756057354250/video.mov

Here ya go. To me, it looks like what he is saying is absolutely true. Of course, you are now going to say there was some kind of back story he wasn't telling us.

Unless he was cheating at the time he won the 80k in chips or was not 21 there's absolutely no reason they should have tried to keep his chips or not cashed them. And if he was cheating, they should have detained him and called the athoritues. It's obvious they did not suspect him of cheating.

Give me a GOOD reason they should not have cashed his chips?



Still more to the story. I don't know what it is, but there is a reason they did not cash them that day. Their reason may not be legitimate when it's all said and done, but something is still missing.

If I was him I would call the Casino GM and ask for the reason he can not cash his chips (if he wasn't already told). If after a few days they still won't cash, that's been plenty of time to review his situation or investigate anything they think he did. Then you get an Attorney.

The one thing you don't do is talk about it on a public forum. Anything you post, write or accuse can be used against you. Bad idea. Hopefully he gets his chips cashed and he won't have to worry about it.


ZCore13



I suspect he has taken to the net due to what most attorneys are already telling him.

Indian lands have sovereign immunity from lawsuits so they can effectively rob/confiscate his chips and he has zero legal recourse

In that situation the only remedy is to scream and holler on the net
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
heatmap
heatmap
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 2286
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
April 19th, 2019 at 4:46:57 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000



While reading heatmaps posts..

Keep in mind he also believes switching to 2 hands is effective in changing a cold bj shoe.

And that when he bets a side bet in bj , he’s always going to win at least that bet or the main bet.



I covered my stupidity I think haha
Last edited by: heatmap on Apr 19, 2019
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22296
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
April 19th, 2019 at 4:58:09 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: RS

You’re like 0 for 100 when it comes to knowing what actually happens in casinos. Not every casino is run the way the two casinos you’ve worked for are run. And speaking of irony, SCG is actually a credible source.



That's kind of strange, since everything I predict and get criticized for here comes true.

I could name half a dozen things off the top of my head.

And SCG is not a credible source on this story. I guarantee it's far from the true story. Where's any proof that it happened that way? Police report? Lawsuit? Court filings? Witnesses? Video of the conversation with the gaming board? Receipt for the money they took? Anything?


ZCore13

I don't care what happened that lead up to this. He shouldn't be on this or any forum saying or showing anything. I find it strange someone like him would do that. He needs to stop posting and contact a lawyer or someone that can help him and then tell his story after it's all figured out one way or the other. I don't know why you think this stuff doesn't and cant happen? You only need one person to make a bad call for something like this to happen. It seems to me that once a security guard or management makes a bad decision even others who know its probably the wrong decision they will back that person up and.



It can and does happen, I just don't believe his story. Give me a realistic description of what happened and I can believe it. Heck, I'll help with any info I can give or get. Come in with some proof. Something more realistic than I copied and pasted this so I don't care about the spelling. Lol. I hear stuff like this every night. Then I look up the info and it's not even close.


ZCore13

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/497562399700942860/568565756057354250/video.mov

Here ya go. To me, it looks like what he is saying is absolutely true. Of course, you are now going to say there was some kind of back story he wasn't telling us.

Unless he was cheating at the time he won the 80k in chips or was not 21 there's absolutely no reason they should have tried to keep his chips or not cashed them. And if he was cheating, they should have detained him and called the athoritues. It's obvious they did not suspect him of cheating.

Give me a GOOD reason they should not have cashed his chips?



Still more to the story. I don't know what it is, but there is a reason they did not cash them that day. Their reason may not be legitimate when it's all said and done, but something is still missing.

If I was him I would call the Casino GM and ask for the reason he can not cash his chips (if he wasn't already told). If after a few days they still won't cash, that's been plenty of time to review his situation or investigate anything they think he did. Then you get an Attorney.

The one thing you don't do is talk about it on a public forum. Anything you post, write or accuse can be used against you. Bad idea. Hopefully he gets his chips cashed and he won't have to worry about it.


ZCore13

So you don't think it's a good possibility that he has been tagged a'san AP/card counter and they had him flagged so they took the wrong action?

Perhaps there is more to the story on their side like a mistake made. That does not mean there's more to the story on his side.

I don't know if he had ever been 86ed there or any other properties affiliated with him. But even then that's not a legitimate reason to confiscate the money.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
GWAE
GWAE
  • Threads: 93
  • Posts: 9854
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
April 19th, 2019 at 5:25:41 PM permalink
of course there is more to the story. It is not as nefarious as zcore may think. Since he can not speak for himself until Saturday maybe you should just wait to see if he puts the reason out there.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
michael99000
michael99000
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2113
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
April 19th, 2019 at 5:27:04 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

of course there is more to the story. It is not as nefarious as zcore may think. Since he can not speak for himself until Saturday maybe you should just wait to see if he puts the reason out there.




Why tell the story and leave out important facts to begin with ?
GWAE
GWAE
  • Threads: 93
  • Posts: 9854
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
April 19th, 2019 at 5:29:49 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Why tell the story and leave out important facts to begin with ?



not for me to answer. I believe I was the first one to say there is something more to it. Maybe tomorrow all will be revealed... and maybe it won't
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 19th, 2019 at 5:35:05 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Why tell the story and leave out important facts to begin with ?



Sometimes to protect an ongoing or future legal AP play
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
unJon
unJon
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 4661
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
Thanked by
AxelWolfRS
April 19th, 2019 at 5:38:16 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Sometimes to protect an ongoing or future legal AP play

Who are you, and what did you to do darkoz?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 19th, 2019 at 5:55:34 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Who are you, and what did you to do darkoz?



Lol

While I seem to be free with a lot of info there are some secrets I keep close to the vest.

One is coming to a definitive end soon so I will probably disclose that one. Its totally dead in 1 week
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22296
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
April 19th, 2019 at 7:06:12 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Lol

While I seem to be free with a lot of info there are some secrets I keep close to the vest.

One is coming to a definitive end soon so I will probably disclose that one. Its totally dead in 1 week

The Secret Life of the American Bus Rider.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 19th, 2019 at 7:12:56 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

The Secret Life of the American Bus Rider.



I will admit I took the bus to this particular play

Sadly they had no bus bonus :(
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 549
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
Thanked by
AxelWolfdarkoz
April 19th, 2019 at 9:41:38 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

6. The casinos are located in Appalachia, the people of which have a long-standing culture of corruption and sketchy law enforcement. For Nevada/New Jersey effetes like Zcore and FBCLCommish, this may seem to be meaningless, but it is not. Think moonshiners. Recall the movie "Deliverance." These are popular symbols of something that is a reality in the hard-scrabble poverty of Appalachia: local people take care of themselves and their neighbors and they wink at the law. And when outsiders like Zcore travel through Appalachia they find themselves in a strange land where they don't know the customs and rules - and where sometimes they are made to squeal like a pig.



I am smart enough not to comment on something I know nothing about. I have never been to either of the North Carolina operations, nor do I know anyone associated with them. This is a pass for me.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
randomperson
randomperson
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 198
Joined: Dec 21, 2012
Thanked by
HunterhillRigondeauxMoosetonmcallister3200smurgerburgerMinty
April 20th, 2019 at 11:36:10 AM permalink
I think this strategy of claiming that a person is banned and shouldn't be paid is a tactic more casinos will be using in the future. This is not an isolated incident that happened because the person was in North Carolina. I was part of an incident and heard about another one within the last year of major casinos trying this move.

For the incident I was part of, I was trespassed from a state regulated casino. At the time I was trespassed, the casino did an investigation and banned two other known associates. We don't know whether this was because of something we had done together inside of this particular casino of whether the casino just looked up my name in a database. These people were no where near the casino on the day I was trespassed and were never informed that the casino banned them. The casino never contacted or even attempted to contact these people to inform them. One of these individuals hit a taxable jackpot two weeks after I was banned and the casino told him that he was on the ban list and would not be paid. It didn't matter that no one informed him he was on the list because they couldn't pay a jackpot to anyone on the banned list, no matter what. The person was not even given a direct contact number to address the issue, just the general number for hotel reservations. He wrote a strongly worded email the next day and got a call from someone at the casino. They said come on down and we will pay you your jackpot and clear everything up (hat tip: whenever anybody says anything about clearing things up, they are lying). He goes to the casino and security escorts him to the cashier and positions him in front of the best camera they have in the joint. They go through an hour of back and forth about whether it was even physically possible to pay somebody on the ban list, and the the security supervisor walks back up to the person and says we got you on facial recognition. We saw you playing on another person's card on a specific date. You will not be getting any money today. The person contacted the gaming commission and they investigated, then several days later they escorted the person into the casino and he was immediately paid. The casino tried to maintain that it actually violated the law to pay someone on the ban list and then the gaming commission set them straight. However, there were no consequences other than having to do what they should have done in the first place. This particular casino is a newly opened branch of a large chain, which has a lot of employees that have moved over from other locations.

The second incident is a story I heard from a trustworthy source about a major California tribal casino. The person involved was deep into a play on a must hit by 10k Ainsworth machine. They finally hit the jackpot and security walked up to him and informed him that he would not be paid the jackpot and he had to leave the casino immediately. When he asked why, they told him he had been placed on the ban list 15 minutes prior to hitting the jackpot and was therefore not eligible to receive any winnings. It did not matter that they did not inform him of this fact, because it was against their policy to pay anyone on the ban list. He appealed to the tribal gaming commission and was rejected. He threatened to contact local media and the casino eventually decided it was in their best interests to pay.

From the casino's perspective the move is a free roll. The worst outcome for them is that they have to do what they should have done in the first place. Even in the state regulated casino, the gaming commission didn't require the casino to pay an additional fine. In some cases, the casinos will try this move and the person won't pursue it further because they won't know how. It's clear to me that with the same move popping up in multiple locations around the same time, that the casinos are likely communicating about strategies to use against APs and this is one of their tactics.
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 20th, 2019 at 12:05:05 PM permalink
Quote: randomperson

I think this strategy of claiming that a person is banned and shouldn't be paid is a tactic more casinos will be using in the future. This is not an isolated incident that happened because the person was in North Carolina. I was part of an incident and heard about another one within the last year of major casinos trying this move.

For the incident I was part of, I was trespassed from a state regulated casino. At the time I was trespassed, the casino did an investigation and banned two other known associates. We don't know whether this was because of something we had done together inside of this particular casino of whether the casino just looked up my name in a database. These people were no where near the casino on the day I was trespassed and were never informed that the casino banned them. The casino never contacted or even attempted to contact these people to inform them. One of these individuals hit a taxable jackpot two weeks after I was banned and the casino told him that he was on the ban list and would not be paid. It didn't matter that no one informed him he was on the list because they couldn't pay a jackpot to anyone on the banned list, no matter what. The person was not even given a direct contact number to address the issue, just the general number for hotel reservations. He wrote a strongly worded email the next day and got a call from someone at the casino. They said come on down and we will pay you your jackpot and clear everything up (hat tip: whenever anybody says anything about clearing things up, they are lying). He goes to the casino and security escorts him to the cashier and positions him in front of the best camera they have in the joint. They go through an hour of back and forth about whether it was even physically possible to pay somebody on the ban list, and the the security supervisor walks back up to the person and says we got you on facial recognition. We saw you playing on another person's card on a specific date. You will not be getting any money today. The person contacted the gaming commission and they investigated, then several days later they escorted the person into the casino and he was immediately paid. The casino tried to maintain that it actually violated the law to pay someone on the ban list and then the gaming commission set them straight. However, there were no consequences other than having to do what they should have done in the first place. This particular casino is a newly opened branch of a large chain, which has a lot of employees that have moved over from other locations.

The second incident is a story I heard from a trustworthy source about a major California tribal casino. The person involved was deep into a play on a must hit by 10k Ainsworth machine. They finally hit the jackpot and security walked up to him and informed him that he would not be paid the jackpot and he had to leave the casino immediately. When he asked why, they told him he had been placed on the ban list 15 minutes prior to hitting the jackpot and was therefore not eligible to receive any winnings. It did not matter that they did not inform him of this fact, because it was against their policy to pay anyone on the ban list. He appealed to the tribal gaming commission and was rejected. He threatened to contact local media and the casino eventually decided it was in their best interests to pay.

From the casino's perspective the move is a free roll. The worst outcome for them is that they have to do what they should have done in the first place. Even in the state regulated casino, the gaming commission didn't require the casino to pay an additional fine. In some cases, the casinos will try this move and the person won't pursue it further because they won't know how. It's clear to me that with the same move popping up in multiple locations around the same time, that the casinos are likely communicating about strategies to use against APs and this is one of their tactics.



You can add me to the list of stories.

I won a $1770 jackpot at a slot machine and was informed I was on the banned list and payment was refused.

As I stated earlier I got the gaming commission involved same day and walked out with the money

The casino employees seem to believe they can break the law to protect themselves
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
  • Threads: 54
  • Posts: 2168
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
Thanked by
Forager
April 20th, 2019 at 12:47:31 PM permalink
Indian casinos can just violate your rights and you basically have no recourse.
My partner hit a small bonus on a table game for 10k.
They refused to pay him unless he produced id and gave his social,this was for a nontaxable amount.
Sovereign immunity needs to be eliminated.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
Thanked by
Minty
April 20th, 2019 at 1:03:02 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Indian casinos can just violate your rights and you basically have no recourse.
My partner hit a small bonus on a table game for 10k.
They refused to pay him unless he produced id and gave his social,this was for a nontaxable amount.
Sovereign immunity needs to be eliminated.



How is $10k non-taxable?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
April 20th, 2019 at 1:08:51 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Indian casinos can just violate your rights and you basically have no recourse.
My partner hit a small bonus on a table game for 10k.
They refused to pay him unless he produced id and gave his social,this was for a nontaxable amount.
Sovereign immunity needs to be eliminated.



I'm not sure you can pass a law about people immune from the law. NYC tried that, passing a law revoking diplomatic immunity for parking tickets. It didn't work out.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 3667
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
Thanked by
Minty
April 20th, 2019 at 1:11:07 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

How is $10k non-taxable?



Table games isn’t based on a dollar amount like slots, it’s based on a multiple of the payout, 300-1 and above a certain amount. If it was like slots, every time someone bet table max on a 1k bj table and won a double down or got a blackjack, they’d trigger a w2g.

So for example if you had $100 bet on lucky ladies and hit a 200-1 payout for 20k, that doesn’t trigger a w2g, they shouldn’t need your info to pay you in chips. Many non Indian casinos will still request it in a case like that but you can politely refuse and they’re obligated to pay.
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 20th, 2019 at 1:23:21 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Table games isn’t based on a dollar amount like slots, it’s based on a multiple of the payout, 300-1 and above a certain amount. If it was like slots, every time someone bet table max on a 1k bj table and won a double down or got a blackjack, they’d trigger a w2g.

So for example if you had $100 bet on lucky ladies and hit a 200-1 payout for 20k, that doesn’t trigger a w2g, they shouldn’t need your info to pay you in chips. Many non Indian casinos will still request it in a case like that but you can politely refuse and they’re obligated to pay.



Ah thanks.

I have never won a table games jackpot so good to know
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
April 20th, 2019 at 1:51:39 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Table games isn’t based on a dollar amount like slots, it’s based on a multiple of the payout, 300-1 and above a certain amount. If it was like slots, every time someone bet table max on a 1k bj table and won a double down or got a blackjack, they’d trigger a w2g.

So for example if you had $100 bet on lucky ladies and hit a 200-1 payout for 20k, that doesn’t trigger a w2g, they shouldn’t need your info to pay you in chips. Many non Indian casinos will still request it in a case like that but you can politely refuse and they’re obligated to pay.



Won't they ask for id when you go to cash out the chips? What about a CTR? I don't play at those levels so I've never experienced that sort of heat. I did make the mistake once of holding all my black chips for a week and trying to cash in 15 of them at once at the Vegas Players Club.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
michael99000
michael99000
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2113
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
April 20th, 2019 at 1:59:06 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Won't they ask for id when you go to cash out the chips? What about a CTR? I don't play at those levels so I've never experienced that sort of heat. I did make the mistake once of holding all my black chips for a week and trying to cash in 15 of them at once at the Vegas Players Club.



They would ask for your players card where I play. To see if you have any outstanding markers.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 3667
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
April 20th, 2019 at 2:08:00 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Won't they ask for id when you go to cash out the chips? What about a CTR? I don't play at those levels so I've never experienced that sort of heat. I did make the mistake once of holding all my black chips for a week and trying to cash in 15 of them at once at the Vegas Players Club.



Sure will. For practical purposes you might just be willing to give it up unless you want to be accused of structuring or have an Suspicious Activity Report filed on you. Yeah if you cash out more than 10k going to be required for a CTR. Some players will find a chip inventory useful if they play heavy enough to get in deep and want to avoid CTR when going over 10k cash+chips combined but less than 10 cash.

Cage threshold will vary by property usually somewhere between 1k and 3-4K, or even a single purple chip. At least two properties in LV will refuse to cash so much as a single purple chip without record of play. Properties in AC will usually just ask if you have a marker if cashing in 2-4K range, often you can decline ID or players card request (assuming less than 10k )and they’ll still pay you, but they will likely take a note of your description in that case. Title 31 stuff.
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 549
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
Thanked by
beachbumbabs
April 20th, 2019 at 9:12:39 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Indian casinos can just violate your rights and you basically have no recourse.
My partner hit a small bonus on a table game for 10k.
They refused to pay him unless he produced id and gave his social,this was for a nontaxable amount.
Sovereign immunity needs to be eliminated.



Any payout of a bonus on a table game of over $600 and over 300:1 odds is taxable. Anything over $5000 and 300:1 odds requires tax to be withheld.

This is Federal. Does not matter if it is a commercial casino or tribal, it's the law. As soon as your partner produces the proper documents, he will be paid.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
RS
RS
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8626
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
April 20th, 2019 at 10:50:44 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

Any payout of a bonus on a table game of over $600 and over 300:1 odds is taxable. Anything over $5000 and 300:1 odds requires tax to be withheld.

This is Federal. Does not matter if it is a commercial casino or tribal, it's the law. As soon as your partner produces the proper documents, he will be paid.


HunterHill is saying it was for a non-taxable amount, meaning no documentation is necessary. If it was a $100 wager and paid 100:1, then nothing extra needs to happen....the player should be treated the same as if he just won a 4:1 on a $5 wager.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange 
  • Threads: 121
  • Posts: 4969
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
April 20th, 2019 at 11:45:51 PM permalink
Does the table fill out a CTR when you win $10,001+, or do they delegate that to the cage when you get there?
Maybe some wins are paid in cash at the table, like a posted jackpot amount; and other wins are paid in chips.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 2549
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
April 21st, 2019 at 1:06:40 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz



The casino employees seem to believe they can break the law to protect themselves



Of course they can. Not because they are casinos, but because they are part of big business. They own the political process, so it will only get worse.
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 21st, 2019 at 3:35:39 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Of course they can. Not because they are casinos, but because they are part of big business. They own the political process, so it will only get worse.



So you walk into a car Porsche dealership and fork over $80,000 (lets say you wire it so we dont even have any issues of suspicious activity)

They claim they now realize you were banned from another Porsche dealership on the other side of the country and its their policy not to do business with people banned at any of their locations

They demand you leave without the car and claim your $80,000 is forfeit store policy.

They call the cops who uphold the policy and demand you leave or you will be the criminal.

I dont see big business getting away with this. It only seems to be casinos that try this crap

(And cops through civil forfeiture so no surprise cops and casinos are in cahoots)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 2549
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
April 21st, 2019 at 4:53:30 AM permalink
Just tribal casinos....

industry's campaign contributions increased nearly tenfold during the past decade, from $4.3 million during the 2000 campaign cycle to more than $14 million during the 2014 cycle.


I assume we all understand this is is not about agreeing on foreign policy.

How much do casino patrons (as such) contribute?
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
  • Threads: 54
  • Posts: 2168
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
April 21st, 2019 at 5:18:59 AM permalink
Quote: RS

HunterHill is saying it was for a non-taxable amount, meaning no documentation is necessary. If it was a $100 wager and paid 100:1, then nothing extra needs to happen....the player should be treated the same as if he just won a 4:1 on a $5 wager.


Exactly it was less than a 300 to 1 payoff,The boss was such a dick about it too.The U S.has given these tribes the right to basically print money,and they allow them to abuse the sovereign immunity status.
Since most of the tribes pay some percentage to the local or state coffers the local police are in bed with the casinos.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
  • Threads: 122
  • Posts: 11141
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
April 21st, 2019 at 5:27:01 AM permalink
But seriously, doesn't every AP know this about tribal casinos? That you have few rights there? That taking advantage (that's what the "A" in AP stands for) of the casino is against the casinos rules? That even if what you are doing is technically legal if done in the USA under our laws, that the tribe can interpret it differently?

Acting surprised that whatever play you were doing was squashed by the tribe is the silly part. I'll bet if a non AP like me won the same bet there would have been no issue.

If I walk through the worst neighborhood in Buffalo and get mugged, I can be unhappy about it but should not be surprised about it.


If an AP wants to try and beat a tribal casino, be aware the tribe can f... you, because they can. And recourse can be limited to whining on an Internet message board.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 3667
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
April 21st, 2019 at 5:40:27 AM permalink
In the 10k payoff being talked about, this casino would also be asking you for your SSN for no valid reason whatsoever as a condition of payment.

And what never written or spoken casino rules are you talking about? Did PGD rise on Easter and hack your account for you to seemingly justify the behavior? Lamest thing you have ever posted, hope you have the day off today if you’re exercising that sort of judgment.
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 21st, 2019 at 7:07:28 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

But seriously, doesn't every AP know this about tribal casinos? That you have few rights there? That taking advantage (that's what the "A" in AP stands for) of the casino is against the casinos rules? That even if what you are doing is technically legal if done in the USA under our laws, that the tribe can interpret it differently?

Acting surprised that whatever play you were doing was squashed by the tribe is the silly part. I'll bet if a non AP like me won the same bet there would have been no issue.

If I walk through the worst neighborhood in Buffalo and get mugged, I can be unhappy about it but should not be surprised about it.


If an AP wants to try and beat a tribal casino, be aware the tribe can f... you, because they can. And recourse can be limited to whining on an Internet message board.



True.

But just like women wearing short provocative outfits to nightclubs should know they may get raped

And black people who wander through the south in the sixties may get lynched

It behooves people to fight for whats rigbt until something is done about it

Most non-AP's look at AP's in a bad light because their motives are financial nonetheless most AP's are about fighting for the right thing to be done while the casinos repeatedly break laws no normal citizens would be allowed to get away with
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
billryan
  • Threads: 240
  • Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
Thanked by
Zcore13
April 21st, 2019 at 8:05:39 AM permalink
I had no idea being an AP was so altruistic. I mistakenly look at them as ankle biters, gaming the system. I never realized they were fighting the good fight. When APs win, the world is a better place.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
randomperson
randomperson
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 198
Joined: Dec 21, 2012
April 21st, 2019 at 8:20:41 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

But seriously, doesn't every AP know this about tribal casinos? That you have few rights there? That taking advantage (that's what the "A" in AP stands for) of the casino is against the casinos rules? That even if what you are doing is technically legal if done in the USA under our laws, that the tribe can interpret it differently?

Acting surprised that whatever play you were doing was squashed by the tribe is the silly part. I'll bet if a non AP like me won the same bet there would have been no issue.

If I walk through the worst neighborhood in Buffalo and get mugged, I can be unhappy about it but should not be surprised about it.


If an AP wants to try and beat a tribal casino, be aware the tribe can f... you, because they can. And recourse can be limited to whining on an Internet message board.



You might want to go back in the the and read the two separate accounts of the same thing happening in state regulated casinos before you say this is only a tribal casino problem.
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
Thanked by
SOOPOO
April 21st, 2019 at 8:56:55 AM permalink
Quote: randomperson

You might want to go back in the the and read the two separate accounts of the same thing happening in state regulated casinos before you say this is only a tribal casino problem.



I think soopoo was referring to the lack of oversight and protective powers.

In both of the state regulated casino cases the casino tried the same thing and were then shot down by gaming commission oversight

AP's do know that Indian casinos have ridiculous sovereign immunity to commit crimes.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 21st, 2019 at 9:02:25 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

I had no idea being an AP was so altruistic. I mistakenly look at them as ankle biters, gaming the system. I never realized they were fighting the good fight. When APs win, the world is a better place.



EVERY person who enters a casino tries to win

They want to leave with more money AND actively attempt to do so.

The only difference between an AP and every other gambler is they use actually proven methods mathematically grounded or at least logical in a world that requires adherence to physical laws

So rubbing the screen of a slot wont help a ploppie

Saying hail mary nope

Switching slots, gambling only in the daytime, waiting until the color black has landed 9 times before wagering at roulette etc.

All of these are attempts to win and beat the casino.

Is everyone an ankle biter or is it only if you have logical methods that work that makes you an ankle biter?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
randomperson
randomperson
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 198
Joined: Dec 21, 2012
Thanked by
mcallister3200Hunterhill
April 21st, 2019 at 11:58:13 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I think soopoo was referring to the lack of oversight and protective powers.

In both of the state regulated casino cases the casino tried the same thing and were then shot down by gaming commission oversight



Its kind of like saying if someone robs you and the police return your belongings that everything is OK and the person didn't do anything wrong. Its not like the casinos aren't trying to steal your money.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 237
  • Posts: 6793
Joined: May 8, 2015
April 21st, 2019 at 2:23:29 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

I 𝐠𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐞 it's far from the true story. ZCore13




no you can't. you can't 𝐠𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐞 anything at all about the incident
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 549
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
April 21st, 2019 at 6:32:58 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Exactly it was less than a 300 to 1 payoff,The boss was such a dick about it too.The U S.has given these tribes the right to basically print money,and they allow them to abuse the sovereign immunity status.
Since most of the tribes pay some percentage to the local or state coffers the local police are in bed with the casinos.



If less than 300:1, then they should pay you with no documentation required, unless it is over $10,000 in which case a CTR will be necessary.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 298
  • Posts: 11628
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
April 21st, 2019 at 7:32:20 PM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

If less than 300:1, then they should pay you with no documentation required, unless it is over $10,000 in which case a CTR will be necessary.



He said the bet paid $10,000

Over as in $10,001.01 or as in $9,999.99?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
  • Jump to: