rxwine
rxwine
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July 5th, 2017 at 3:58:18 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

See , if you know what mandatory means, it's virtually impossible that you genuinely think this makes sense.



It's that thing they do to the bill for groups at restaurants. A party of 8 or more has a tip added to their bill. That's what mandatory means.
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Rigondeaux
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July 5th, 2017 at 4:12:21 PM permalink
Right. Tipping for a smaller group is more like obligatory.

So, i figure you also probably know what charity means but were distorting the meaning intentionally.
rxwine
rxwine
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July 5th, 2017 at 5:55:38 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Right. Tipping for a smaller group is more like obligatory.



Pretty sure obligatory is In every sense mandatory. You might wrangle your way out of one group tip, but most likely they will call security on you if you do it again at the same place.


Quote:

So, i figure you also probably know what charity means but were distorting the meaning intentionally.



You described tipping as something the worker needs and I am under no obligation to give, so it's charity. Both are true here.

In fact, the only person obligated to make up what a worker doesn't make in tips is the employer who must supplement the worker's tips (up to minimum wage I believe) if the worker doesn't make enough in tips.

Also, the claim that the customer should go elsewhere is no more valid than the worker should find a new job if he doesn't like the setup.
prisoner of gravity
rxwine
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July 5th, 2017 at 6:03:30 PM permalink
If I had my druthers, I'd always rather have a choice. Do you want really good service or just basic and save your tip money. I'd take basic every time nearly. Except food servers. Anyone who can poison me probably should be tipped. That and maybe the maid cause I don't want them putting my toothbrush up their butt.

But that's just my preference.
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beachbumbabs
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July 5th, 2017 at 7:34:19 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

If I had my druthers, I'd always rather have a choice. Do you want really good service or just basic and save your tip money. I'd take basic every time nearly. Except food servers. Anyone who can poison me probably should be tipped. That and maybe the maid cause I don't want them putting my toothbrush up their butt.

But that's just my preference.



Ummm.

It's not often I can say this board changed my life, but today is one of those days. Not sure I will ever leave my toothbrush accessible again.

This is a thing? OMG. I'm completely repulsed.

As to tipping. I'm a demiGeorge.

However, I saw something done a while back at a table, and I would like to ask why I haven't seen more of it. First seen at a craps table (2 way place 6/8), then a bj table same chain but 1000 miles away.

Bet placed for dealers. Bet wins. Dealer takes win but leaves original chip working, just like player's bet.

Genius.

Tried it somewhere else when I felt like tip as you go was worth doing; was told house doesn't allow it.

Why is the default most places to take both chips, other than -ev game? Why would some houses allow it and not others? Is there an accepted way to ask for your played tips to be handled this way?

I would be placing bets for dealers much more often if they worked them, since I would get that much better value for my tip money. They would make more in the long run, because I would keep them in when the table's running good. And I'm not seeing a constant drain on my wins to nearly the same percentage (similar to the play - til you lose promo chip, instead of take the chip win or lose type.)
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boymimbo
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Rigondeaux
July 5th, 2017 at 9:31:12 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Well, maybe yes, and maybe no. As it applies to dealers, drink servers, and restaurant servers, I agree.

But, what about tipping hotel staff who clean your room? This tipping never existed (to my knowledge) in the 1960s when I began my professional career. But, it now seems "expected" if you are a hotel guest.

Here you have a situation where you never supervise (much less observe) the services performed on your behalf. AFIK, the cleaner will not (and IMHO should not) clean the room with the occupant present. Plus, leaving a tip today for a great job cleaning after the mess friends and I made watching the game in my room last night may or may not go to the cleaner who did all the work. The cleaner who did a great job yesterday may have the day off today, and today's cleaner may do a poor job, while pocketing the tip you intended for someone else. Furthermore, you have no say concerning the quality of service you expect, because the hotel -- and the hotel alone -- monitors whether or not the room was appropriately cleaned to its (the hotel's) standards, as verified by some clipboard-carrying supervisor.



Our corporate expense policy changed a couple of years ago where we couldn't expense tips for hotel housekeeping. Marriott (one of our major hotel groups) decided to play along and give its patrons points (500 points, about a $5 value) for each night they elect not to do housekeeping. So, that solves two problems. You can cheap it, earn some extra points, and avoid tipping.

For me, I choose to tip anyway because I would rather that the housekeeper be employed and have a living. Just because my company decides to be cheap doesn't mean I have to be.
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Rigondeaux
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RogerKint
July 5th, 2017 at 10:46:57 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Pretty sure obligatory is In every sense mandatory. You might wrangle your way out of one group tip, but most likely they will call security on you if you do it again at the same place.




You described tipping as something the worker needs and I am under no obligation to give, so it's charity. Both are true here.

In fact, the only person obligated to make up what a worker doesn't make in tips is the employer who must supplement the worker's tips (up to minimum wage I believe) if the worker doesn't make enough in tips.

Also, the claim that the customer should go elsewhere is no more valid than the worker should find a new job if he doesn't like the setup.



Obligatory means you have an obligation, which might be merely moral. Mandatory means you have no choice, or at least that negative consequences will be imposed if you don't do the mandatory thing If your country is invaded, you might be obligated to aid in its defense. But this is only mandatory if there is a draft. You might have an obligation to take care of your aged parents, but it is not mandatory. etc.

I believe you didn't get that distinction.

I find it hard to believe that you do not realize, on some level, that you are just making up an alternative definition of charity that does not correspond to the definition used by everybody outside of your head.

Honoring a financial obligation without compulsion is not charity. Paying an informal debt, or honoring a bet, for example, are not charity. Nor is giving someone money in exchange for their work a charity, just because they can't sue you if you cheat them.

Charity is when you give to a person or organization to help them, in exchange for nothing. Though maybe they give you a t-shirt or something.

But I'm pretty sure you know that. I certainly hope so.

Also, it is much easier to avoid accepting work from people who work for tips than to avoid working for tips. It's incredibly easy, actually. Just don't do it. But even to a worker, if they were constantly fuming about how much they hated working for tips (almost all of them like it, but let's just say...) I would say they should change jobs if at all possible.

It's a very unusual view you have, and for good reason. Paying $25 for a dinner and having the waiter make $16/hr in salary is fine. But paying $20 and tip and having them make $17/hr is some kind of crime against humanity. Most people like the second way, so that's how it's done. If you take the work without paying, you're a cheat.
MaxPen
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July 5th, 2017 at 10:55:54 PM permalink
About the only thing I won't tip for is a hand pay. Unless there are extenuating circumstances. As a matter of fact, I think the casino should have to provide a free play incentive for making me wait.😜

I don't drink alcohol so I constantly get screwed. 20 cents of cranberry juice, about 4 sips, in a glass of ice. $1 not for the supposed "free drink" but the fact that I didn't have to get it myself. I must drink at least a $1000 of cranberry juice per year. Oh well.
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Calder
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July 5th, 2017 at 11:07:57 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Why is the default most places to take both chips...



Don't know if it is. In Wisconsin players often tip by betting for the crew and specifying "player control." If it hits, the player may specify how to handle the win: parlay, drop part and let the rest ride, use the win to place another number, lock it all up, etc.

Though a couple weeks ago I was told by boxmen at two different casinos in Deadwood, SD that it was against state law to allow player control, though no one seemed to know why. I could only take them at their word. While $1 place bets were rounded up (a $1 placed 6 and the crew dropped $3), they miss out on those parlayed hardways...
Rigondeaux
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July 5th, 2017 at 11:11:59 PM permalink
To what Romes said, I think it's OK for an AP to tip less, and for the recreational players to tip more. Or for someone who is struggling to tip less and for someone who is rolling in it to tip more. That's part of the beauty of the system, I think.

When I play poker, I tip about a dollar per raked pot. Sometimes I'm a little stingy with small pots, especially if the rake is high, but this just serves as a reminder to avoid small pots when the rake is high. Sometimes I go a little more on big pots or if I suck out. I might also tip more if the dealer isn't making much.

Really, if I tipped like some recs, I couldn't play at all and then the dealer wouldn't get anything from me.

They probably have some kind of gambling budget that they will lose anyway, so it feels good to them to lose a lot of it on tips, rather than to the house. If I was a degen, I think I'd feel the same way.

As long as you're paying someone a reasonable wage for their work, I think you're OK.

As for maids and so forth, I think that gets into more complicated territory. Ever more people in our country are paid wages, but wages that are bellow poverty level. I think that has a lot to do with why tipping is spreading into new areas. Since those wages will probably just keep going down, this is probably for the best.

I simply don't want maid service during my stay, so I keep the sign up. When I leave, I tip about 3 bucks. They still got the room ready and will clean it up. I usually use the change I have accumulated.

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