Wino
Wino
Joined: Dec 13, 2014
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July 4th, 2017 at 11:59:50 PM permalink
BJ card counting being the bread and butter to my overall AP activities and the edge in straight counting being razor thin, I started developing a Degenerate Gambler persona who is pretty much always unhappy 80% of the time and who can never be satisfied by the commonly found poor service and lack of people-skills exhibited by the Casino Industry staff. Only tipping $1 when specific Pit are watching and no matter how big a win I acquire I experimented with just walking away still angry and negative despite the few thousand dollar win and it seems believable. From a math standpoint, if I play 5 sessions a week and tip $1 per session x 52 weeks that = $260 a year and when I factor in dealer mis-pays that $260 amount should be reduced significantly as my min bet is $25 usually. I don't see why I shouldn't tip the same amounts in Hole-card play either as that's what I have already been doing.
How much do you APs WASTE in tipping dealers per year? I would like any suggestions on how to tip EVEN LESS just like LVBEAR -one of my AP idols. This thread is obviously directed to the AP community and so dealers who chime in and say that I have a social responsibility to supplement the Casino's non-living wage pay to employees despite their exorbitant profits can save it. In life, I'm a complete gentleman. In the Casino, it is ALL OUT WAR! ,
Wanda Wilcox: “I can’t stand people. I hate them.” Chinaski: “Oh, yeah?” Wanda: “You hate them?” Chinaski: “No, but I seem to feel better when they’re not around.” Barfly, starring Mickey Rourke
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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July 5th, 2017 at 12:56:50 AM permalink
Been several years since a tipping thread has started here, so lets get it on. What would SoxFan say? Cashews and Guinness? Hey, hey!
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
RSodiousgambitRigondeauxBTLWIontariodealer
July 5th, 2017 at 12:59:54 AM permalink
If you are playing $25 BJ 5 times a week, and sweating $250 a year in tips, I'm guessing your degenerate gambler persona is no longer an act.
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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July 5th, 2017 at 1:28:32 AM permalink
I've never understood how or why (well, I guess I understand why to an extent) people sweat tipping and want to tip as little as possible. I'm not saying you should tip away all your EV or do anything stupid. Although, counting cards, or any game where the player has a small advantage, tipping can add up quickly if you aren't smart about it.

But in other games, particularly those where you have a nice edge, there's no reason to sweat the tipping. Let's say you have a decent play, $1 9/6 JOB where you can do 1000 HPH (for simplicity), and you get 4.46% cash-back, for an overall positive 4% win. At $5k in action per hour, that's $200/hour. The only hand you'll be tipping on is a RF which pays $4k and is worth 2% of your overall return. Some people tip like 0.5% of a jackpot which would be $20 in this case. Sure, that might be a fair amount to tip (who knows what's a fair amount?), but that $20 loss over a 40 hour span is essentially nothing, as your EV would have been $8k. Hell, if you wanted to, you could tip 50% of your jackpot payouts to the slot attendant and still do very well, making $150/hour instead of $200/hour. (I'm not saying you should tip that much, but it goes to show how little of an impact tipping has if you're playing a decent or strong play.)


It's much more difficult in blackjack card counting. You have a small edge, you're making big bets compared to your hourly win-rate, and thus tipping what a dealer would consider fair is much different than what you can actually afford. If your max bet is $500 and your hourly EV is $100, you're not going to be able to find a tip amount that satisfies the dealer. Dealer bases it off of your $500 bet, and/or how much you win or bought in for, you base it off of your $100/hour in EV....and there's not really a "fair" middle ground. But then again, you're playing a pretty bad game to begin with.


But if you're not going to tip, don't be an a**hole about it (unless the dealer deserves it). Just color up or do whatever you do, grab your money, and go.
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Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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Thanks for this post from:
RS
July 5th, 2017 at 2:35:40 AM permalink
It's simple.

If someone wotks for tips and they perform adequate work for you, you are on your honor to tip them. That's how it works. If you don't like it don't accept their labor.

If you stiff, your doing something roughly as immoral as stealing.

Invent any story you want to cover it up. You think workers should be paid more and instead of tips the service shoud cost more, or whatever bs you want to spin. You know you're full of crap.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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July 5th, 2017 at 3:30:43 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

If you don't like it don't accept their labor.

If you stiff, your doing something roughly as immoral as stealing.



I dislike when people never tip or leave really crappy tips. What I dislike even more is when people tell others how much and when they should tip.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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July 5th, 2017 at 3:35:08 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Invent any story you want to cover it up. You think workers should be paid more and instead of tips the service shoud cost more, or whatever bs you want to spin. You know you're full of crap.



I don't see how the casino is off the hook.

The casino says - if the customer doesn't make up your wage difference for any reason, not our problem.
The customer says - if the casino doesn't make up your wage difference for any reason, not my problem.
prisoner of gravity
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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Thanks for this post from:
beachbumbabsBTLWI
July 5th, 2017 at 4:15:48 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I dislike when people never tip or leave really crappy tips. What I dislike even more is when people tell others how much and when they should tip.


"I already tipped the cocktail waitress for you, why'd you give her a dollar? Are you insane, a $2 tip for a drink is ridiculous, period! Go find her and get your dollar back."

That quote kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
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Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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July 5th, 2017 at 4:25:17 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I don't see how the casino is off the hook.

The casino says - if the customer doesn't make up your wage difference for any reason, not our problem.
The customer says - if the casino doesn't make up your wage difference for any reason, not my problem.



There is no hook. Workers need to live.

One system is that the boss charges the customer more and then uses that money to pay workers.

The other is that the boss charges the customer less and customers pay workers directly on the honor System.

The latter usual works out best for workers because most people prefer to pay them well. They derive a utility from tipping that they would not get from higher prices. Plus, they know where it is going.

But if you have some subjective reaction that makes you dislike it you can choose not to participate. Expecting people to work for free because of some nonsense rattling around inside your head is extremely arrogant and not far removed from stealing.

They work for tips. Knowing this, you accepted their work. So tip, or you have taken something without paying for it.

Not only that, as with shoplifters, honest customers now must pay more to make up for the deficit you created.
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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July 5th, 2017 at 7:16:16 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux


But if you have some subjective reaction that makes you dislike it you can choose not to participate. Expecting people to work for free because of some nonsense rattling around inside your head is extremely arrogant and not far removed from stealing.
.
They work for tips. Knowing this, you accepted their work. So tip, or you have taken something without paying for it.



Well, then, if I over tip someone they should speak up and say sir, you overpaid? Right. That's the honest thing to do.
prisoner of gravity

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