Free play doesnt last forever

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September 3rd, 2022 at 5:00:26 AM permalink

No comment.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AlanMendelson

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September 3rd, 2022 at 5:31:47 AM permalink

Quote: ChumpChange
Slotmassacre has a hard time sticking to one denom in any session. But lately he's on his Free Play Tour, with less than $1,000 buy-ins at each casino. If I were him, I'd be playing 25 cent with 5 coins for Free Plays of $300+. If he gets a $200 Free Play, I'd add $100 of my own money to make it a $300 buy-in.

This is what I was watching last night and what Slotmassacre was playing 1 year ago. He could have won $400K on a Royal, but he's getting hand pays for 3 of a kind.
He had a lot more luck than I've ever had in any session. He's playing Bonus Poker which pays 2 for 1 on 2 Pair, so that's a game I should watch for.
Fantastic $500 hand High Limit Video Poker session. - Aug 31, 2021 - Slotmassacre - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZO9svlyS1U
link to original post

I'm starting to get disappointed in Slotmassacre. But before I say anything critical I'd like to say that I enjoy his videos and I think he's a good guy and I wish him the best. But in this new video he said some troubling things.

https://youtu.be/2lP_Sc7ac7c

First of all he's now "campaigning" to find a casino to sponsor him. He said that openly in a previous video. The key to getting sponsored is to have a large subscriber base which was the point of his opening monologue in this new video.

But he also said he wants to be a video poker evangelist and talks about 99% returns. But he overlooks that 99% returns continue to whittle down bankrolls as you continue to play them.

I'm surprised the math guys haven't jumped all over this.

I've also lost faith in John's World of video poker for his self challenge to take free play and run it up to a $100k royal. He keeps adding his own money after busting and starting over and over again.

He's another one shopping for a casino sponsor with a long travelogue about casino resorts before you see even one frame of actual play. I know he does this to suck in views and to increase the time duration of viewers. It's a YouTube trick to boost ad revenue.

The bottom line for these guys is that the free play they're getting is not going to beat the house edge on VP games.

Seedvalue

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September 5th, 2022 at 9:03:06 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
No comment.
link to original post

Not trying to derail the thread but does anyone have some insight or information regarding lawsuits against casinos requiring patrons to scan their ID through Veridocs. It seems that It should be sufficient for the patron to show an ID without being required to have it run through some third party software. State issued ID should be all that is needed to enter. I�m not talking about the act of showing ID I�m talking about the act of casinos requiring you scan. If a patron agrees to show a legal ID and you refuse them entry�s because they don�t want a third party to have their information that seems illegal.

It�s like walking into a Walmart and they refuse entry because you won�t sign up for a Facebook profile. No one should be forced to sign up or engage with another business to enter the one you choose. I think this needs to be challenged legally

darkoz

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September 5th, 2022 at 10:01:43 PM permalink

Quote: Seedvalue
Quote: AxelWolf
No comment.
link to original post

Not trying to derail the thread but does anyone have some insight or information regarding lawsuits against casinos requiring patrons to scan their ID through Veridocs. It seems that It should be sufficient for the patron to show an ID without being required to have it run through some third party software. State issued ID should be all that is needed to enter. I�m not talking about the act of showing ID I�m talking about the act of casinos requiring you scan. If a patron agrees to show a legal ID and you refuse them entry�s because they don�t want a third party to have their information that seems illegal.

It�s like walking into a Walmart and they refuse entry because you won�t sign up for a Facebook profile. No one should be forced to sign up or engage with another business to enter the one you choose. I think this needs to be challenged legally
link to original post

I don't see that you have a case. Verifying ID is legit could be argued a necessity in this day and age since there has been a long history of ID fraud

The argument will be made that you have the right to refuse and not enter.

It reminds me of the signs you periodically see that filming is currently ongoing within the premises and your willingness to enter and remain gives automatically the right to your being filmed. In that situation, the notification is necessary as you may be unaware of the filming but once you pass the sign it's your choice to stay or not

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

MDawg

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September 5th, 2022 at 10:14:48 PM permalink

I suppose if enough people felt that this scanned ID requirement were burdensome enough to discourage them from entering casinos, staying at the hotels in the casinos, and so on, the argument could be made that this practice impacted interstate commerce.

This "negatively affected interstate commerce" is how the federal government was able to justify laws preventing private establishments from refusing to serve people of a certain race, color, religion, sex, national origin, etc. because otherwise, it would have been hard to make a constitutional argument involving something that would seem to involve only a private business.

If you're green, and your whole family is green, and green people are not allowed to buy gas, stay at hotels, or eat at restaurants, that will affect their willingness and ability to travel, and will affect interstate commerce, is the way the constitutional argument goes.

Otherwise, short of making some kind of commerce clause or other constitutional argument, private business are able to make rules even rules that ostensibly make it harder for people to enter their establishments....

I tell you it�s wonderful to be here, man. I don�t give a damn who wins or loses. It�s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

Seedvalue

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September 5th, 2022 at 10:15:56 PM permalink

Quote: darkoz
Quote: Seedvalue
Quote: AxelWolf
No comment.
link to original post

Not trying to derail the thread but does anyone have some insight or information regarding lawsuits against casinos requiring patrons to scan their ID through Veridocs. It seems that It should be sufficient for the patron to show an ID without being required to have it run through some third party software. State issued ID should be all that is needed to enter. I�m not talking about the act of showing ID I�m talking about the act of casinos requiring you scan. If a patron agrees to show a legal ID and you refuse them entry�s because they don�t want a third party to have their information that seems illegal.

It�s like walking into a Walmart and they refuse entry because you won�t sign up for a Facebook profile. No one should be forced to sign up or engage with another business to enter the one you choose. I think this needs to be challenged legally
link to original post

I don't see that you have a case. Verifying ID is legit could be argued a necessity in this day and age since there has been a long history of ID fraud

The argument will be made that you have the right to refuse and not enter.

It reminds me of the signs you periodically see that filming is currently ongoing within the premises and your willingness to enter and remain gives automatically the right to your being filmed. In that situation, the notification is necessary as you may be unaware of the filming but once you pass the sign it's your choice to stay or not
link to original post

Well I�m not refusing them the ability to read my id. I have no problem giving them that to enter. I just don�t think I should be forced into scanning or essentially doing business with another company.

Patrons should be able to opt out of that. Much like refusing email or mail. If you show ID then I think it should be illegal. If I show them Id and they refuse entry if I don�t scan what happens if I just walk in ? I�m not breaking any laws I did what is legal now if they grab me or something along those lines they are breaking the law.

I think everyone is giving up to much privacy voluntarily. Again I should not be forced to do business with a third party company to enter. I don�t see how they could win a case of I refused and sue. Essentially it�s not a law and they definitely don�t scan everyone all the time. Maybe it�s discriminatory

MDawg

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September 5th, 2022 at 10:19:41 PM permalink

And then...as far as a discrimination "equal protection" argument, that gets pretty complex, and with something like this if the rule has even a rational relationship to its intended effect, assuming it even crosses the line into constitutionally protected subject matter to begin with, it will pass muster.

Rational basis is like - does the rule serve some legitimate purpose? And again, the whole subject isn't even bound by constitutional constraints unless it somehow falls under the Constitution and its Amendments to begin with.

But it's good to think along these lines, because at some point a rule might be too intrusive or discriminatory and somehow cross the line of constitutionally protected boundaries.

I tell you it�s wonderful to be here, man. I don�t give a damn who wins or loses. It�s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

Seedvalue

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September 5th, 2022 at 10:28:33 PM permalink

This company veridocs is essentially building this huge database by casinos forcing patrons to scan. I watched one casino make two people in their 80s show ID then scan. It�s totally absurd. I wonder if there is away to contact the company directly and force them to remove your information

MDawg

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September 5th, 2022 at 10:33:26 PM permalink

Well, during the Pandemic weren't people from one state not allowed to enter certain other states unless they proved they were vaccinated, or else be subject to quarantine? You'd think that would have given rise to some kind of constitutional challenge - definitely restricts interstate commerce anyway.

I tell you it�s wonderful to be here, man. I don�t give a damn who wins or loses. It�s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

ChumpChange

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September 6th, 2022 at 12:57:28 AM permalink

From a Google search without a paywall entry...
Horseshoe Casino fined $100,000 for repeatedly admitting ...https://www.nwitimes.com � business � gambling � horses...
She's confident the new rule will keep out underage patrons better than most other Indiana casinos that don't run IDs through Veridocs and solely rely on a ...

Dieter
Administrator

Dieter

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September 6th, 2022 at 1:10:28 AM permalink

Quote: ChumpChange
From a Google search without a paywall entry...
Horseshoe Casino fined $100,000 for repeatedly admitting ...https://www.nwitimes.com � business � gambling � horses...
She's confident the new rule will keep out underage patrons better than most other Indiana casinos that don't run IDs through Veridocs and solely rely on a ...
link to original post

https://apnews.com/article/indiana-3ba994d6deeb215e661be89549fad54b

No idea if that's paywalled.

May the cards fall in your favor.

DRich

DRich

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September 6th, 2022 at 6:26:20 AM permalink

Quote: Seedvalue
This company veridocs is essentially building this huge database by casinos forcing patrons to scan. I watched one casino make two people in their 80s show ID then scan. It�s totally absurd. I wonder if there is away to contact the company directly and force them to remove your information
link to original post

The simple answer is to just refuse to let them. They have no right to do it but you also don't have a right to play there without following their rules. Just play somewhere else. If enough people do that they will stop requiring it.

At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.

darkoz

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September 6th, 2022 at 7:49:36 AM permalink

Quote: MDawg
Well, during the Pandemic weren't people from one state not allowed to enter certain other states unless they proved they were vaccinated, or else be subject to quarantine? You'd think that would have given rise to some kind of constitutional challenge - definitely restricts interstate commerce anyway.
link to original post

Well quarantine isn't refusal of entry. It's just being forced to be separate until you pass a possible incubation period.

Diseases usually trump constitutional concerns.

Typhoid Mary for example insisted on not taking precautions and after repeatedly spreading typhoid she was forcibly quarantined for years!!!

As for restricting interstate commerce, that's a difficult claim in today's internet age of eBay purchasing.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

MDawg

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September 6th, 2022 at 7:56:43 AM permalink

Quote: ChumpChange
From a Google search without a paywall entry...
Horseshoe Casino fined $100,000 for repeatedly admitting ...https://www.nwitimes.com � business � gambling � horses...
She's confident the new rule will keep out underage patrons better than most other Indiana casinos that don't run IDs through Veridocs and solely rely on a ...
link to original post

Circa scans your ID when you enter. In fact, when I have entered the guard hasn't even looked at the front of the ID(s) just turned it/them over and scanned the back, and then waved me (or us) in. They check IDs both from the parking garage entrance and all other entrances, whether you have a room key or not.

That's the thing with IDs and many security or clerks at stores, etc. They seem to make a bigger deal out of verifying the ID itself versus making certain that the person presenting it resembles the picture.

I tell you it�s wonderful to be here, man. I don�t give a damn who wins or loses. It�s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

ChumpChange

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September 6th, 2022 at 5:55:13 PM permalink

I walked by a casino entrance and there was a driver's license on the computer screen. I'm kind of gobsmacked that there would be one on the screen where they tally the population of the casino. I've seen middle aged Asian women being asked for ID, but I'm right behind them and I don't get ID'd. I've seen an entourage of variously aged people who came together and the guards at the front asked them all for ID and a few of them were underage. They said they'd like to just visit the food court but the guard said "no." One of the older ones could get takeout at the food court but nobody underage is getting past the front to the casino floor. I was behind them and they were clogging up the entrance for 10-15 minutes and I had to ask to be let by, and they didn't ask for my ID.

The casino used to ask for ID when they first reopened and everybody had to wear masks, so maybe I'm already in the system.

I was looking at the craps table the other night and maybe half of the players were still wearing masks. It's really close at a crowded table so masks are probably advisable. At the Bubble Craps machine, that seems somewhat socially distanced while deserted so I don't wear a mask. The slot machines are no longer alternately shut off for socially distancing.

jafdevera004

jafdevera004

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September 6th, 2022 at 6:49:29 PM permalink

I'm a beginner. Any tips on how I can earn ? Like what kind of games should I play for better chances of winning ?

ChumpChange

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September 6th, 2022 at 7:04:40 PM permalink

I just figure all slot machines are one-armed bandits and I should focus on simple games like Black Jack or Baccarat. Craps is the game I started with because there used to be $5 tables pre-COVID-19 but they're all $15 tables now and Black Jack is either $15 or $25 and Baccarat is either $50 or $100. So I've been relegated to Bubble Craps until I can win enough for a $500 or $1,000 buy-in at a Black Jack table, or a $2,000 or $4,000 buy-in at a Baccarat table. I'll probably get to a craps table first.

This thread is about Free Play, where people win Free Play or are given Free Play when they walk in and check-in at the Player's Club kiosk. The best way to play Free Play, or the most common way, is to play Video Poker. There's strategy on this website for different Video Poker games, so memorize those after you pick out a game you want to try. Jacks or Better is a standard game. I've been playing 9/6 Double Bonus Poker lately.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/basics/#playing-strategy

AlanMendelson

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September 7th, 2022 at 6:48:24 AM permalink

Wednesday free play report.

Had $5 @ Suncoast which seems to be the minimum, and I haven't tables there for months. Cashed at $3.50 @ Bonus Poker.

$15 @ Red Rock. Cashed out $11.

darkoz

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September 7th, 2022 at 9:39:41 AM permalink

Quote: AlanMendelson
Wednesday free play report.

Had $5 @ Suncoast which seems to be the minimum, and I haven't tables there for months. Cashed at $3.50 @ Bonus Poker.

$15 @ Red Rock. Cashed out $11.
link to original post

Now that's a good Freeplay report.

Also note your return even at VP was not anywhere near 95% which is why I feel it's crazy to be willing to pay that for Freeplay.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

AxelWolf

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September 7th, 2022 at 10:07:15 AM permalink

Quote: darkoz
Quote: AlanMendelson
Wednesday free play report.

Had $5 @ Suncoast which seems to be the minimum, and I haven't tables there for months. Cashed at $3.50 @ Bonus Poker.

$15 @ Red Rock. Cashed out $11.
link to original post

Now that's a good Freeplay report.

Also note your return even at VP was not anywhere near 95% which is why I feel it's crazy to be willing to pay that for Freeplay.
link to original post

You are back on that? If you were able to buy unlimited free play at 95%, given a high enough denomination such as $100 you would be making upwards of 10's of thousands per hour. So yeah, it would be dumb for an advantage player not to take advantage of a situation like that.

It's not so crazy, since there have been casino promotions and various private deals where you could buy Freeplay for a discount.

Let's say you win a drawing worth 100k in free play, but they offer 60 % in cash, are you telling me you would take the cash?

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

darkoz

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September 7th, 2022 at 11:18:43 AM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AlanMendelson
Wednesday free play report.

Had $5 @ Suncoast which seems to be the minimum, and I haven't tables there for months. Cashed at $3.50 @ Bonus Poker.

$15 @ Red Rock. Cashed out $11.
link to original post

Now that's a good Freeplay report.

Also note your return even at VP was not anywhere near 95% which is why I feel it's crazy to be willing to pay that for Freeplay.
link to original post
You are back on that? If you were able to buy unlimited free play at 95%, given a high enough denomination such as $100 you would be making upwards of 10's of thousands per hour. So yeah, it would be dumb for an advantage player not to take advantage of a situation like that.

It's not so crazy, since there have been casino promotions and various private deals where you could buy Freeplay for a discount.

Let's say you win a drawing worth 100k in free play, but they offer 60 % in cash, are you telling me you would take the cash?
link to original post

Is that $100,000 to only be used at slots or it can be used at VP and VBJ as well?

Is that $100'000 at once or spread out? Is the cash option at once or spread out?

For that matter, is the Freeplay offers revocable?

I'm curious how you feel that, say, 86% slots return would be wise to purchase Freeplay at 95% value?

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

AlanMendelson

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September 7th, 2022 at 11:33:23 AM permalink

I wouldn't pay 95% for free play. Sure, I've had some super returns on free play... but they were real long shots.

Two of my 3 $100k royals were hit with freeplay of $2500... but before hitting the $25/coin royals I played $5/coin VP and had built up my bankroll to more than $5k. Once I was above $5k I switched to $25/coin and then hit several quads before hitting a royal.

I think paying 95% for VP games that return 98% or 99% doesnt give you much of a safety margin.

On Shark Tank they wouldn't pay you 95%. LOL

MDawg

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September 7th, 2022 at 11:42:08 AM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
If you were able to buy unlimited free play at 95%, given a high enough denomination such as $100 you would be making upwards of 10's of thousands per hour. So yeah, it would be dumb for an advantage player not to take advantage of a situation like that.

It's not so crazy, since there have been casino promotions and various private deals where you could buy Freeplay for a discount.
link to original post

Lately, I am getting an average of $10K a month in table game freeplay. I don't really even pursue all I COULD be getting but if there are takers out there to buy these at 95%, I could step it up and probably double that, maybe more. While sometimes I have taken those freeplay chips to extraordinary levels, still - I'll sell you all the promo chips you want at 95 cents on the dollar.

Didn't someone else say that the return on promo chips at Blackjack should be at least 99%?

And here I thought that the $2000. DarkOz gave me was going to be the only material benefit from joining these forums.

I tell you it�s wonderful to be here, man. I don�t give a damn who wins or loses. It�s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

AlanMendelson

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September 7th, 2022 at 12:31:54 PM permalink

Mdawg what denomination are your free play chips? I think that's crucial for a buyer to know.

Seedvalue

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September 7th, 2022 at 4:19:55 PM permalink

It�s all fun and games until you sell free play to an undercover surveillance employee at a very good price, and suddenly every card you have in that persons name gets killed at multiple casinos.

Probably just me being paranoid tho right ?

If only it was�.

I don�t think people are respecting the other side. The guys paid to thwart advantage players. I hear time and time again how stupid surveillance is or this and that. They are definitely not stupid and many of them take great pride in their job. Buying and selling free play or promo chips is just to risky. Maybe I can guest author a chapter in Oz book. I got some very interesting stories to tell on the subject.

Seedvalue

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September 7th, 2022 at 4:29:47 PM permalink

Quote: AlanMendelson
I wouldn't pay 95% for free play. Sure, I've had some super returns on free play... but they were real long shots.

Two of my 3 $100k royals were hit with freeplay of $2500... but before hitting the $25/coin royals I played $5/coin VP and had built up my bankroll to more than $5k. Once I was above $5k I switched to $25/coin and then hit several quads before hitting a royal.

I think paying 95% for VP games that return 98% or 99% doesnt give you much of a safety margin.

On Shark Tank they wouldn't pay you 95%. LOL
link to original post

Alan when you were getting $2,500 was it once a week or the standard 4 to 5 times a week Caesar�s schedule.

AlanMendelson

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September 7th, 2022 at 4:42:32 PM permalink

Quote: Seedvalue
Quote: AlanMendelson
I wouldn't pay 95% for free play. Sure, I've had some super returns on free play... but they were real long shots.

Two of my 3 $100k royals were hit with freeplay of $2500... but before hitting the $25/coin royals I played $5/coin VP and had built up my bankroll to more than $5k. Once I was above $5k I switched to $25/coin and then hit several quads before hitting a royal.

I think paying 95% for VP games that return 98% or 99% doesnt give you much of a safety margin.

On Shark Tank they wouldn't pay you 95%. LOL
link to original post

Alan when you were getting $2,500 was it once a week or the standard 4 to 5 times a week Caesar�s schedule.
link to original post

$2500 in one shot per weekend. It came as vouchers. I could play all $2500 at one time or use them as I wanted during the trip.... say $1200 one day and then $1300 the next day.

Caesars had a voucher system for it's free play then. Not a download system that most casinos have today.

Vouchers were distributed at the cage.

darkoz

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September 7th, 2022 at 5:03:18 PM permalink

Quote: Seedvalue
It�s all fun and games until you sell free play to an undercover surveillance employee at a very good price, and suddenly every card you have in that persons name gets killed at multiple casinos.

Probably just me being paranoid tho right ?

If only it was�.

I don�t think people are respecting the other side. The guys paid to thwart advantage players. I hear time and time again how stupid surveillance is or this and that. They are definitely not stupid and many of them take great pride in their job. Buying and selling free play or promo chips is just to risky. Maybe I can guest author a chapter in Oz book. I got some very interesting stories to tell on the subject.
link to original post

I was just about to post how dangerous using someone else's Freeplay could be.

I don't think undercover surveillance would bother with this though. I mean if you are buying from someone who just approached you, then maybe it's undercover but then you get what you deserve.

I am more concerned with getting freeplay from someone I at least know isn't a casino undercover, let's say a longtime poster on here, but unaware of where the freeplay comes from its dangerous.

I know one person for example who utilizes an insider employee to upload offers as well as print out fake players cards (the cards are real but the names, addresses, etc are fake) which is totally illegal.

I have heard of people who cracks pins from found cards.

I have also seen someone who gave permission for their card to be used and didn't realize someone else was using it downstream. For example, let's say MDawg gives Axel permission to use his Freeplay and then Axel sells it to me and then I get caught. Casino security calls MDawg and he says he didn't give Darkoz permission (Because he didn't, he gave permission only to Axelwolf).

That's a whole lot of legal issues that are simply better left avoided.

I can earn my offers. Don't need to shortcut. This type of work, shortcuts are never a good ending.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

AxelWolf

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September 7th, 2022 at 7:57:53 PM permalink

Quote: darkoz
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AlanMendelson
Wednesday free play report.

Had $5 @ Suncoast which seems to be the minimum, and I haven't tables there for months. Cashed at $3.50 @ Bonus Poker.

$15 @ Red Rock. Cashed out $11.
link to original post

Now that's a good Freeplay report.

Also note your return even at VP was not anywhere near 95% which is why I feel it's crazy to be willing to pay that for Freeplay.
link to original post
You are back on that? If you were able to buy unlimited free play at 95%, given a high enough denomination such as $100 you would be making upwards of 10's of thousands per hour. So yeah, it would be dumb for an advantage player not to take advantage of a situation like that.

It's not so crazy, since there have been casino promotions and various private deals where you could buy Freeplay for a discount.

Let's say you win a drawing worth 100k in free play, but they offer 60 % in cash, are you telling me you would take the cash?
link to original post

Is that $100,000 to only be used at slots or it can be used at VP and VBJ as well?

Is that $100'000 at once or spread out? Is the cash option at once or spread out?

For that matter, is the Freeplay offers revocable?

I'm curious how you feel that, say, 86% slots return would be wise to purchase Freeplay at 95% value?
link to original post

Obviousy paying more than the free play is worth would be retarded. We were talking about the VP regarding paying 95%. Go read Alan's original question and my response.

Even if only available on slots, why would you choose a machine that only has an 86% payback? Heck, I would be thinking I might even find a machine with over 100% payback. If not, ill gladly go for 86k over 60k. As an advantage player, you are looking for ways to gain value, not toss it away. I think 26k is too much to give up.

It's ok man, I realize you are mostly a specialist in one area of advantage play. IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

darkoz

Threads: 300
Posts: 11893

Joined: Dec 22, 2009

September 7th, 2022 at 8:42:33 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AlanMendelson
Wednesday free play report.

Had $5 @ Suncoast which seems to be the minimum, and I haven't tables there for months. Cashed at $3.50 @ Bonus Poker.

$15 @ Red Rock. Cashed out $11.
link to original post

Now that's a good Freeplay report.

Also note your return even at VP was not anywhere near 95% which is why I feel it's crazy to be willing to pay that for Freeplay.
link to original post
You are back on that? If you were able to buy unlimited free play at 95%, given a high enough denomination such as $100 you would be making upwards of 10's of thousands per hour. So yeah, it would be dumb for an advantage player not to take advantage of a situation like that.

It's not so crazy, since there have been casino promotions and various private deals where you could buy Freeplay for a discount.

Let's say you win a drawing worth 100k in free play, but they offer 60 % in cash, are you telling me you would take the cash?
link to original post

Is that $100,000 to only be used at slots or it can be used at VP and VBJ as well?

Is that $100'000 at once or spread out? Is the cash option at once or spread out?

For that matter, is the Freeplay offers revocable?

I'm curious how you feel that, say, 86% slots return would be wise to purchase Freeplay at 95% value?
link to original post
Obviousy paying more than the free play is worth would be retarded. We were talking about the VP regarding paying 95%. Go read Alan's original question and my response.

Even if only available on slots, why would you choose a machine that only has an 86% payback? Heck, I would be thinking I might even find a machine with over 100% payback. If not, ill gladly go for 86k over 60k. As an advantage player, you are looking for ways to gain value, not toss it away. I think 26k is too much to give up.

It's ok man, I realize you are mostly a specialist in one area of advantage play. IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.
link to original post

+100% slots?

Unless you are planning to vulture, downloading $5 at a time from your $100,000 Freeplay every time you see someone leave behind a couple of Scarabs etc, I don't know what machines you are talking about.

Perhaps they have +100% slots in Vegas but not on the East Coast.

I suspect that if you had to operate on the East Coast you would get a bit of an education. I suspect a lot of opportunities you have in Vegas would be missing from your repertoire here.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

AlanMendelson

Threads: 167
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September 7th, 2022 at 9:28:37 PM permalink

Isn't there an issue with free play expiring? And not being able to bank it?

jafdevera004

jafdevera004

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September 7th, 2022 at 10:03:07 PM permalink

Do you even win playing online casino?

camapl

camapl

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September 7th, 2022 at 11:23:04 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
�IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.
link to original post

Here, here!

It�s a dog eat dog world. �Or maybe it�s the other way around!

darkoz

Threads: 300
Posts: 11893

Joined: Dec 22, 2009

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September 7th, 2022 at 11:35:16 PM permalink

Quote: camapl
Quote: AxelWolf
�IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.
link to original post

Here, here!
link to original post

Gambling for free toasters to sell on eBay isn't my idea of life fulfilling advantage play!

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

Seedvalue

Threads: 0
Posts: 157

Joined: Apr 5, 2022

September 7th, 2022 at 11:35:24 PM permalink

Quote: camapl
Quote: AxelWolf
�IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.
link to original post

Here, here!
link to original post

I think you would find more competition for a ever decrease set of machines if casinos did away with free play and bonus slots. I actually think it�s better with all the opportunities and competition.

Seedvalue

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September 7th, 2022 at 11:36:55 PM permalink

Yes there is

Seedvalue

Threads: 0
Posts: 157

Joined: Apr 5, 2022

September 7th, 2022 at 11:37:38 PM permalink

Quote: AlanMendelson
Isn't there an issue with free play expiring? And not being able to bank it?
link to original post

Yea there is

Seedvalue

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September 7th, 2022 at 11:38:38 PM permalink

Quote: jafdevera004
Do you even win playing online casino?
link to original post

No online casinos cannot be beat

cyberbabble

cyberbabble

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September 7th, 2022 at 11:46:54 PM permalink

It's my understanding that free play awards are not reported to the IRS. Is this correct?
Cash is reported and free play is not means taking the free play is usually best.

darkoz

Threads: 300
Posts: 11893

Joined: Dec 22, 2009

September 8th, 2022 at 12:07:37 AM permalink

Quote: cyberbabble
It's my understanding that free play awards are not reported to the IRS. Is this correct?
Cash is reported and free play is not means taking the free play is usually best.
link to original post

Under current IRS guidelines that is correct.

But a lot of forum members don't believe that.

And a lot of AP's don't report their cash winning anyhow.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

AlanMendelson

Threads: 167
Posts: 5937

Joined: Oct 5, 2011

September 8th, 2022 at 1:00:27 AM permalink

Quote: cyberbabble
It's my understanding that free play awards are not reported to the IRS. Is this correct?
Cash is reported and free play is not means taking the free play is usually best.
link to original post

Free play, cash back, promotions, RFB, etc are all considered to be rebates. The same as getting a check from Ford when you buy a car.

Rebates are not taxable.

ChumpChange

Threads: 131
Posts: 5112

Joined: Jun 15, 2018

September 8th, 2022 at 1:23:30 AM permalink

I cashed a $140 voucher at the ATM/Voucher kiosk for the first time and I got a $100 bill, two $20's, and a voucher for the <$1 change. So I don't need to visit the cashier every time I leave. I used to go to the cashier to get $100 bills, and I didn't expect the ATM/Voucher machine would give $100 bills. I don't know what the maximum payout is on the ATM/Voucher machine, but I think it's likely $3,000, the same as the slot machines. If it's lower, I don't know about it.

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22678

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

September 8th, 2022 at 1:36:41 AM permalink

Quote: darkoz
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AlanMendelson
Wednesday free play report.

Had $5 @ Suncoast which seems to be the minimum, and I haven't tables there for months. Cashed at $3.50 @ Bonus Poker.

$15 @ Red Rock. Cashed out $11.
link to original post

Now that's a good Freeplay report.

Also note your return even at VP was not anywhere near 95% which is why I feel it's crazy to be willing to pay that for Freeplay.
link to original post
You are back on that? If you were able to buy unlimited free play at 95%, given a high enough denomination such as $100 you would be making upwards of 10's of thousands per hour. So yeah, it would be dumb for an advantage player not to take advantage of a situation like that.

It's not so crazy, since there have been casino promotions and various private deals where you could buy Freeplay for a discount.

Let's say you win a drawing worth 100k in free play, but they offer 60 % in cash, are you telling me you would take the cash?
link to original post

Is that $100,000 to only be used at slots or it can be used at VP and VBJ as well?

Is that $100'000 at once or spread out? Is the cash option at once or spread out?

For that matter, is the Freeplay offers revocable?

I'm curious how you feel that, say, 86% slots return would be wise to purchase Freeplay at 95% value?
link to original post
Obviousy paying more than the free play is worth would be retarded. We were talking about the VP regarding paying 95%. Go read Alan's original question and my response.

Even if only available on slots, why would you choose a machine that only has an 86% payback? Heck, I would be thinking I might even find a machine with over 100% payback. If not, ill gladly go for 86k over 60k. As an advantage player, you are looking for ways to gain value, not toss it away. I think 26k is too much to give up.

It's ok man, I realize you are mostly a specialist in one area of advantage play. IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.
link to original post

+100% slots?

Unless you are planning to vulture, downloading $5 at a time from your $100,000 Freeplay every time you see someone leave behind a couple of Scarabs etc, I don't know what machines you are talking about.

Perhaps they have +100% slots in Vegas but not on the East Coast.

I suspect that if you had to operate on the East Coast you would get a bit of an education. I suspect a lot of opportunities you have in Vegas would be missing from your repertoire here.
link to original post

Obvious, I wouldn't be willing to download $5 at a time, I have been to the East Coast many times, there are many different slots available that can be 100%+ where you would hopefully get some significant action in. Not all the casinos are going to always have 100% + machine opportunities, but I would certainly find something much better than 86 %. Perhaps if nothing else, the higher limits would be an option. Worst case scenario you'll get 86k in value instead of locking yourself into 60k.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22678

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

September 8th, 2022 at 1:46:01 AM permalink

Quote: darkoz
Quote: cyberbabble
It's my understanding that free play awards are not reported to the IRS. Is this correct?
Cash is reported and free play is not means taking the free play is usually best.
link to original post

Under current IRS guidelines that is correct.

link to original post

I thought a chunk over 20k or something like that was supposed to be reported.

Quite a few years back Club Fortune was 1099'ing people for their accumulated yearly won free-play(or earnings from it). They may still be doing that, it's been a while since I have been there.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22678

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

September 8th, 2022 at 1:56:43 AM permalink

Quote: darkoz
Quote: camapl
Quote: AxelWolf
�IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.
link to original post

Here, here!
link to original post

Gambling for free toasters to sell on eBay isn't my idea of life fulfilling advantage play!
link to original post

Who's doing that?

At one time, in your neck of the woods, people were earning Rolex watches and other expensive gifts on good video poker and selling some of it on eBay.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

Seedvalue

Threads: 0
Posts: 157

Joined: Apr 5, 2022

September 8th, 2022 at 2:59:19 AM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: camapl
Quote: AxelWolf
�IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.
link to original post

Here, here!
link to original post

Gambling for free toasters to sell on eBay isn't my idea of life fulfilling advantage play!
link to original post
Who's doing that?

At one time, in your neck of the woods, people were earning Rolex watches and other expensive gifts on good video poker and selling some of it on eBay.
link to original post

I don�t think Oz does promos but I can tell you that there�s still a few games that are over 100 percent when you take into account everything. The problem is there are very few machines so you must network to get time. This is why I pointed out that if the bonus machines and free play went away the competition would be fierce for these machines. I know of a few stores with plays worth mid to upper 6 figures if you put in the time. Again you are going to have to network to get the hours in. My problem with this type of play is just that. I personally rather be in complete control of what I�m going to make. I don�t want network with 10 different people to get in my hours. So everyone knows your business and what not. But yes there are some very lucrative plays even now.

darkoz

Threads: 300
Posts: 11893

Joined: Dec 22, 2009

September 8th, 2022 at 3:53:08 AM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: darkoz
Quote: AlanMendelson
Wednesday free play report.

Had $5 @ Suncoast which seems to be the minimum, and I haven't tables there for months. Cashed at $3.50 @ Bonus Poker.

$15 @ Red Rock. Cashed out $11.
link to original post

Now that's a good Freeplay report.

Also note your return even at VP was not anywhere near 95% which is why I feel it's crazy to be willing to pay that for Freeplay.
link to original post
You are back on that? If you were able to buy unlimited free play at 95%, given a high enough denomination such as $100 you would be making upwards of 10's of thousands per hour. So yeah, it would be dumb for an advantage player not to take advantage of a situation like that.

It's not so crazy, since there have been casino promotions and various private deals where you could buy Freeplay for a discount.

Let's say you win a drawing worth 100k in free play, but they offer 60 % in cash, are you telling me you would take the cash?
link to original post

Is that $100,000 to only be used at slots or it can be used at VP and VBJ as well?

Is that $100'000 at once or spread out? Is the cash option at once or spread out?

For that matter, is the Freeplay offers revocable?

I'm curious how you feel that, say, 86% slots return would be wise to purchase Freeplay at 95% value?
link to original post
Obviousy paying more than the free play is worth would be retarded. We were talking about the VP regarding paying 95%. Go read Alan's original question and my response.

Even if only available on slots, why would you choose a machine that only has an 86% payback? Heck, I would be thinking I might even find a machine with over 100% payback. If not, ill gladly go for 86k over 60k. As an advantage player, you are looking for ways to gain value, not toss it away. I think 26k is too much to give up.

It's ok man, I realize you are mostly a specialist in one area of advantage play. IIRC you once said, if they did away with free play, you would be out(or something like that). For me, I would be jumping for joy and praying the variable state machines were next. This would drastically weed out a significant portion of Advantage Players and hustlers. The casinos would then be forced into coming up with various promotions and marketing, that with some understanding of different areas of AP and outside-the-box thinking would be highly exploitable.
link to original post

+100% slots?

Unless you are planning to vulture, downloading $5 at a time from your $100,000 Freeplay every time you see someone leave behind a couple of Scarabs etc, I don't know what machines you are talking about.

Perhaps they have +100% slots in Vegas but not on the East Coast.

I suspect that if you had to operate on the East Coast you would get a bit of an education. I suspect a lot of opportunities you have in Vegas would be missing from your repertoire here.
link to original post
Obvious, I wouldn't be willing to download $5 at a time, I have been to the East Coast many times, there are many different slots available that can be 100%+ where you would hopefully get some significant action in. Not all the casinos are going to always have 100% + machine opportunities, but I would certainly find something much better than 86 %. Perhaps if nothing else, the higher limits would be an option. Worst case scenario you'll get 86k in value instead of locking yourself into 60k.
link to original post

The problem with going to higher limit rooms is jackpots. I know of a quite a few Casinos on the East Coast (though admittedly not all) where winning a jackpot on someone else's Freeplay will be checked!

Imagine paying $95,000 for $100,000 freeplay, winning a jackpot about$2,000 in and then finding your card pin locked with about $90,000 to go!

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

AxelWolf