darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 30th, 2022 at 1:25:30 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: lilredrooster



that's kinna interesting - I've never heard of "no setting allowed" before


so, the casino actually believes the player can get an edge by setting the dice and this rule is to prevent that__




elsewhere a high rolling BJ AP player whose words I believe and who refers to himself as being addictive and compulsive has posted that due to the fact that they knew who he was he was backed off while betting thousands at roulette and baccarat - no edge - playing minus EV - likely to lose big $$$$


maybe not a lot - but there's got to be at least a few real morons working as bosses at some casinos


.
link to original post



They are just employees trying to collect their check. They don't understand the games or the math.

They understand that Advantage Player knows how to take profit from them at Blackjack so if he is observed playing something else, then he must have figured out how to do it there as well.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
Dieter
May 30th, 2022 at 1:34:41 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: lilredrooster



that's kinna interesting - I've never heard of "no setting allowed" before


so, the casino actually believes the player can get an edge by setting the dice and this rule is to prevent that__




elsewhere a high rolling BJ AP player whose words I believe and who refers to himself as being addictive and compulsive has posted that due to the fact that they knew who he was he was backed off while betting thousands at roulette and baccarat - no edge - playing minus EV - likely to lose big $$$$


maybe not a lot - but there's got to be at least a few real morons working as bosses at some casinos
link to original post


So I am still sitting here on my balcony looking out at Vegas rather than out playing or doing anything else on probably the last of our beautiful days before summer really hits hard. I feel guilt about that, but am also enjoying the beautiful weather so...

Anyway. Pitbosses as morons. Lol.

Earlier this year I was playing off strip at a casino known for being very sweaty. No not the Spaniard place downtown, but there is a connection. So it was fairly early in the day and the $25 and $50 tables weren't open. So I was playing double deck at a $10 min table with one other player, a female between 35 and 45. ( I am not good at judging ages).

So this other player was spreading $10-$40. Really I only saw her bet $40 once, so she was effectively speading $10-$30. If she was max betting at $40, she was waiting too long to place that bet. As a matter of fact her whole bet ramp (when she placed the larger bets) was anything but optimal. Not even close. And her play wasn't very optimal either. Some strategy change index type plays weren't at the right numbers. She even made a few basic strategy mistakes. So nothing about her play was optimal. She was likely playing about a break even game at best.

So I was spreading $50-$300, but doing so in a manner that disguises my spread some, spreading both ways. Someone looking really has to see both negative counts and positive counts up to Maxbet to identify the whole spread.

So anyway, as you are probably guessing by now, after a couple shoes at this double deck game, Joe smoe, pit guy comes over and tells her she is not welcome to play blackjack anymore. She argues and such, which NEVER does any good, only makes you more memorable and then she glares at me. For a moment, I thought she was going to rat me out saying something about my play, but she didn't. She left.

So of course my point: This young lady was playing a break even game give or take with her effective $10-$30 spread and she was backed off. What morons!

AND I have seen a lot worse that that. I have seen players backed off that were no more counting cards that the man on the moon. They simply were varying wagers and Asian players do this A LOT. While sad it is also amusing because these players are genuinely confused when they are told they can't play.

Have these morons never experienced players increasing wagers because they are chasing losses? Never experienced players actually parlaying wins? Not every player varying wagers is a card counter. LOL
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100xOdds
100xOdds
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May 30th, 2022 at 4:06:50 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

So here is how it worked for me at my lower level. The play starts with a big coin in. I decided what I wanted that amount to be and when I hit it, I was done. No wiggle room. No extra play (because it is initially -EV). I wanted to hit the target that would generate the offers I was looking for and that is it.

So then a month, or 2 months at some locations, the mailer offers would start rolling in. At my prime I was getting 30 mailers a month and another 10 -12 in my partners name. Usually for 2 months, I would get the top amount of free play that I was looking for, followed by 2 months at about half that and then 2 months reduced even more (maybe a quarter of the first two months). The offers would continue to go down but I wasn't interested after that third reduction. At that point it wasn't worth it to chase these smaller amounts all over the city, so that is when I would hit another large coin-in and start the cycle all over again. For me, the totality of the free play was 4-5 times the cost of that initial coin in. But only if you were disciplined enough to stick to the target and only play the free play amounts. Any "extra" play would eat into the who thing considerably.

link to original post

For me, i usually play +EV slots.
My freeplay is $150 x 2times/week plus a friends card $40 x 2times/week.
so i book a free room weds to thurs.
play the sun-weds freeplay, sleep, then play the thurs-Sat freeplay before i leave.

My coin-in for each day is waaaaay more than the $190 freeplay.
I do at least $1000 coin-in and probably avg $2k+ coin-in.

but it's not that much profit, on avg.
say the slot is at 103%.
$2000 x 103% = +$60 EV
(There are times where i lose 4 figures chasing a +ev play)

60 x 2 = $120/week
120 x 52 weeks = $6k profit

If I did it your way on 9/6 ddb (99% ev):
($190 x 2) x 1% loss = $376 profit/week, on avg

Thus:.
first 2 months: $376 x 8 weeks = $3k
next 2 months at 50% freeplay = 1.5k
last 2 months at 25% freeplay = $750
Total: 5250

Repeat for 2nd half of year:
$5250 x 2 = $10.5k

I've been doing it wrong all these years?!
Note: I gamble for entertainment and not make a living at it.
Last edited by: 100xOdds on May 30, 2022
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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May 30th, 2022 at 5:27:27 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds


I've been doing it wrong all these years?!
Note: I gamble for entertainment and not make a living at it.
link to original post



No, you are not doing it wrong. I am not sure there is a right or wrong. Your last line is most important. You gamble for entertainment and not making a living. So it sounds like you are adding a little Ev to your entertainment. Absoluetly nothing wrong with that. :)

I was doing this play as part of my income, part of making a living. So I wasn't mixing in any extra "entertainment" play, Just collecting my money trying to maximize return.
Seedvalue
Seedvalue
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May 31st, 2022 at 12:23:03 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Quote: 100xOdds


I've been doing it wrong all these years?!
Note: I gamble for entertainment and not make a living at it.
link to original post



No, you are not doing it wrong. I am not sure there is a right or wrong. Your last line is most important. You gamble for entertainment and not making a living. So it sounds like you are adding a little Ev to your entertainment. Absoluetly nothing wrong with that. :)

I was doing this play as part of my income, part of making a living. So I wasn't mixing in any extra "entertainment" play, Just collecting my money trying to maximize return.
link to original post



Free play can be forever if you actually know the play that makes it so. But some guys wouldn’t understand that because they suck for free instead of getting paid for it.
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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May 31st, 2022 at 12:44:26 AM permalink
Quote: Seedvalue


But some guys wouldn’t understand that because they suck for free instead of getting paid for it.
link to original post



Personal insult. 3 days.
May the cards fall in your favor.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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May 31st, 2022 at 2:00:48 AM permalink
I thought about playing video poker for a $20 meal, I'd have to coin in $12K to get $20, and coin-in $24K to get $20 of free play. At $1.25 per spin on a quarter machine, that'd be 9600 spins for a $20 meal and 19,200 spins for the $20 free play. I'd do so much better on video BJ to get points where I can get 2K to 4K of points ($20-$40 in food points or $10-$20 in free play) in 2-4 hours.
DogHand
DogHand
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
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May 31st, 2022 at 3:24:40 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

<snip>But what I have learned from these discussions on both forums is that other parts of the country have not yet caugh up to Vegas in reducing these mailer offers. That in no surprise, like with 6:5 blackjack and hit soft 21 blackjack and reduced VP paytables, Vegas seems to lead the way on these cuts or negative things and the rest of the country follows. <snip>link to original post


kewlj,

If I found one of those "hit soft 21 blackjack" tables, I'd play all day long ;-)

Seriously, though, very good post clarifying the "coin-in/free play" issue.

Dog Hand
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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May 31st, 2022 at 4:16:13 AM permalink
My final free play for May:

Had $5 @ Suncoast, cashed out $2.50
Had $15 @ Red Rock, that got me $11.25

On to June. But I think that by September Suncoast will be back to $5 which I suspect is their minimum (I go to $10 in June) and Red Rock will be continuing at $10 which I suspect is their minimum for table game players. I drop to $10 starting June.
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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May 31st, 2022 at 5:47:25 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

My final free play for May:

Had $5 @ Suncoast, cashed out $2.50
Had $15 @ Red Rock, that got me $11.25

On to June. But I think that by September Suncoast will be back to $5 which I suspect is their minimum (I go to $10 in June) and Red Rock will be continuing at $10 which I suspect is their minimum for table game players. I drop to $10 starting June.
link to original post

so you'r doing your own experiment of how long they'll give you freeplay without additional play?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)

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