AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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October 23rd, 2021 at 10:04:13 PM permalink
Milking casino free play doesn't last forever and my run of free play from the Boyd Casinos here in Vegas is now over. Over the last few months I've been playing only my free play... and it has been reduced month to month. During October I got $20 of free play on 9 days. I just got my offers for November and my free play was reduced to $5 per free play day.

It isn't worth driving the two miles and pulling into the free parking lot for $5 of free play.

Adios Boyd Gaming, however this was not unexpected. It just makes me wonder about claims of never ending steams of free play.
AZDuffman
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October 24th, 2021 at 3:37:16 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Milking casino free play doesn't last forever and my run of free play from the Boyd Casinos here in Vegas is now over. Over the last few months I've been playing only my free play... and it has been reduced month to month. During October I got $20 of free play on 9 days. I just got my offers for November and my free play was reduced to $5 per free play day.

It isn't worth driving the two miles and pulling into the free parking lot for $5 of free play.

Adios Boyd Gaming, however this was not unexpected. It just makes me wonder about claims of never ending steams of free play.
link to original post



YOU GO NOW! YOU BE HERE FOR HOUR!

Even with all the marketing MBAs working there they will still notice someone milking the system. Although I still say If I lived in Vegas I might try to work a free play/bonus route as a side hustle.

Work other places for awhile, they will probably bring back offers.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
rxwine
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October 24th, 2021 at 4:56:54 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Milking casino free play doesn't last forever and my run of free play from the Boyd Casinos here in Vegas is now over. Over the last few months I've been playing only my free play... and it has been reduced month to month. During October I got $20 of free play on 9 days. I just got my offers for November and my free play was reduced to $5 per free play day.

It isn't worth driving the two miles and pulling into the free parking lot for $5 of free play.

Adios Boyd Gaming, however this was not unexpected. It just makes me wonder about claims of never ending steams of free play.
link to original post



Free play never ends if that's all you use? I suppose it could depend on how you define never using it. It's possible if you show up using services, even if not gambling a casino might send out an offer knowing you've been in the place.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
darkoz
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October 24th, 2021 at 5:07:31 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Milking casino free play doesn't last forever and my run of free play from the Boyd Casinos here in Vegas is now over. Over the last few months I've been playing only my free play... and it has been reduced month to month. During October I got $20 of free play on 9 days. I just got my offers for November and my free play was reduced to $5 per free play day.

It isn't worth driving the two miles and pulling into the free parking lot for $5 of free play.

Adios Boyd Gaming, however this was not unexpected. It just makes me wonder about claims of never ending steams of free play.
link to original post



I'm total, how much freeplay did you use without additional gambling over the months?

9×$20 in just September is $180. But you had freeplay for a few months before that, correct?

So how much freeplay in total?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
TomG
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October 24th, 2021 at 9:11:25 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

It just makes me wonder about claims of never ending steams of free play.



Where are these claims of getting perpetual free-play without giving the casino any action?
ChumpChange
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October 24th, 2021 at 9:45:24 AM permalink
If I bet $12,000 in the slot machines, I might get a card upgrade and a couple slices of pizza.
If I can bet $5,000 over 40 hours and profit 22 cents, surely I could bet $50K over 40(0) hours and win $2.20.
It's either 10 times the bet amounts or 10 times the hours.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Oct 24, 2021
Mission146
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October 24th, 2021 at 10:07:45 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Milking casino free play doesn't last forever and my run of free play from the Boyd Casinos here in Vegas is now over. Over the last few months I've been playing only my free play... and it has been reduced month to month. During October I got $20 of free play on 9 days. I just got my offers for November and my free play was reduced to $5 per free play day.

It isn't worth driving the two miles and pulling into the free parking lot for $5 of free play.

Adios Boyd Gaming, however this was not unexpected. It just makes me wonder about claims of never ending steams of free play.
link to original post



Who claimed free play never ends?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AlanMendelson
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October 24th, 2021 at 11:44:06 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Milking casino free play doesn't last forever and my run of free play from the Boyd Casinos here in Vegas is now over. Over the last few months I've been playing only my free play... and it has been reduced month to month. During October I got $20 of free play on 9 days. I just got my offers for November and my free play was reduced to $5 per free play day.

It isn't worth driving the two miles and pulling into the free parking lot for $5 of free play.

Adios Boyd Gaming, however this was not unexpected. It just makes me wonder about claims of never ending steams of free play.
link to original post



I'm total, how much freeplay did you use without additional gambling over the months?

9×$20 in just September is $180. But you had freeplay for a few months before that, correct?

So how much freeplay in total?
link to original post



The previous month it was $25 per visit and the month before that it was $40 per visit.

So I went from $40 to $25 to $20 to $5. There were 9 or 10 free play days per month.
darkoz
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October 24th, 2021 at 12:01:55 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Milking casino free play doesn't last forever and my run of free play from the Boyd Casinos here in Vegas is now over. Over the last few months I've been playing only my free play... and it has been reduced month to month. During October I got $20 of free play on 9 days. I just got my offers for November and my free play was reduced to $5 per free play day.

It isn't worth driving the two miles and pulling into the free parking lot for $5 of free play.

Adios Boyd Gaming, however this was not unexpected. It just makes me wonder about claims of never ending steams of free play.
link to original post



I'm total, how much freeplay did you use without additional gambling over the months?

9×$20 in just September is $180. But you had freeplay for a few months before that, correct?

So how much freeplay in total?
link to original post



The previous month it was $25 per visit and the month before that it was $40 per visit.

So I went from $40 to $25 to $20 to $5. There were 9 or 10 free play days per month.
link to original post



So not counting the $5 days you had about $850 in freeplay.

You have the first puzzle solved. Only two more to go.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mission146
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October 24th, 2021 at 12:11:09 PM permalink
Pretty much: you’ve got 2 + x = 4

You’ve just got to solve for x.

That’s also not a bad drop off rate with nine pickups per each part of the cycle.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AlanMendelson
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October 29th, 2021 at 12:08:03 PM permalink
Just got my freeplay notice for November. Red Rock reduced me from $40 in October, twice a week, to $30 in November twice a week. In September it was $45 twice a week.

A funny thing happened a week ago. I had $5 free play and played 6/5 5-cent bonus. Had to seed the machine with $1 cash.

Made some hits and got up to $20. Switched to 25-cent bonus and got several nice pays including quad 3s twice. Then hit a $1,000 royal.

Good things can happen with $5 freeplay and $1 seed money.
billryan
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October 29th, 2021 at 12:29:16 PM permalink
I've twice gotten bottom line 4OAK on JOB 100 Play while using Free Play.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Mission146
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October 29th, 2021 at 12:38:57 PM permalink
If you can hit a Royal on hand 64,819, then you can hit a Royal on hand one.

Which, really, is some number much higher than that lifetime...but you get the idea.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
speedycrap
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October 29th, 2021 at 1:50:14 PM permalink
Alan, I just wonder how much you played in order to get that $45 twice/week offer please??
AlanMendelson
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October 29th, 2021 at 7:15:29 PM permalink
Quote: speedycrap

Alan, I just wonder how much you played in order to get that $45 twice/week offer please??
link to original post



I play very little machines. The free play has always been a minimum amount because I play craps. Red Rock before the pandemic gave me $75 free bets at craps once a week.

Before the pandemic my machine free play was never more than $50.

I think it was a token gesture.
ChumpChange
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October 30th, 2021 at 3:31:38 AM permalink
I got a mailer today that says if I show up during certain days of next month, they'll add 500 points ($5 in points!) to my players' card. If I'm not broke by then, I could upgrade my card and get a couple slices of pizza. I have to get there before midnight to redeem the offer because the promotions department shuts down their computers at midnight. The other morning, all the kiosks where you can check your points were out of order. If I'm playing after midnight, the points don't really get added to my account until after I've left which would mean they get added on the next business day.
But hey, $5 in points means I've gambled an extra $3,000; times 4 times in a month it'd be $20 in points and $12,000 extra gambled.
billryan
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October 30th, 2021 at 5:57:06 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I got a mailer today that says if I show up during certain days of next month, they'll add 500 points ($5 in points!) to my players' card. If I'm not broke by then, I could upgrade my card and get a couple slices of pizza. I have to get there before midnight to redeem the offer because the promotions department shuts down their computers at midnight. The other morning, all the kiosks where you can check your points were out of order. If I'm playing after midnight, the points don't really get added to my account until after I've left which would mean they get added on the next business day.
But hey, $5 in points means I've gambled an extra $3,000; times 4 times in a month it'd be $20 in points and $12,000 extra gambled.
link to original post



Now do that on twenty different cards and you'll become feared. Or is it fierce?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
darkoz
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October 30th, 2021 at 6:40:44 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: ChumpChange

I got a mailer today that says if I show up during certain days of next month, they'll add 500 points ($5 in points!) to my players' card. If I'm not broke by then, I could upgrade my card and get a couple slices of pizza. I have to get there before midnight to redeem the offer because the promotions department shuts down their computers at midnight. The other morning, all the kiosks where you can check your points were out of order. If I'm playing after midnight, the points don't really get added to my account until after I've left which would mean they get added on the next business day.
But hey, $5 in points means I've gambled an extra $3,000; times 4 times in a month it'd be $20 in points and $12,000 extra gambled.
link to original post



Now do that on twenty different cards and you'll become feared. Or is it fierce?
link to original post



Lol, you have got to be kidding.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
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October 30th, 2021 at 6:41:37 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I got a mailer today that says if I show up during certain days of next month, they'll add 500 points ($5 in points!) to my players' card. If I'm not broke by then, I could upgrade my card and get a couple slices of pizza. I have to get there before midnight to redeem the offer because the promotions department shuts down their computers at midnight. The other morning, all the kiosks where you can check your points were out of order. If I'm playing after midnight, the points don't really get added to my account until after I've left which would mean they get added on the next business day.
But hey, $5 in points means I've gambled an extra $3,000; times 4 times in a month it'd be $20 in points and $12,000 extra gambled.
link to original post



Sounds like Rivers casino. Their system has that terrible midnight restriction. At least the one in PA does.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AlanMendelson
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May 29th, 2022 at 12:01:26 PM permalink
Free play offers for June are in...

I've played very little over the past three months because I was in Salt Lake City being a caregiver.

My Boyd free play had dropped to $5, seven days a month. In June it goes to $10.

Red Rock which was $15 drops to $10.

Remember we took one day trip to Wendover when Janet felt like "going for a ride"? No offer, but neither of us played more than $100 and we both finished with a small profit.

Mesquite: I made two overnight trips back to Vegas and stopped at Mesquite to use my $40/month dining. No change. Still get $40 free play, $20 twice a month.

I passed by Suncoast on Saturday and used my $5 free play on 25-cent 8/5 Bonus. Cashed $10.

Haven't played craps since Wendover at their $5 table with no setting allowed.
lilredrooster
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May 30th, 2022 at 6:53:29 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson



Wendover at their $5 table with no setting allowed.



that's kinna interesting - I've never heard of "no setting allowed" before

so, the casino actually believes the player can get an edge by setting the dice and this rule is to prevent that_______?



I don't actually play craps - jut fool around on the Wiz's online craps - and enjoy analyzing various strategies

.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
kewlj
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May 30th, 2022 at 10:41:22 AM permalink
Alan, you have every right to be a bit annoyed that some of these guys are only telling part of their stories. (Don't get excited Mods, I am not talking about you know who).

If someone is going to reveal a play like Darkoz had, he should reveal the entire cost of the play. Not doing so just is not very honest. For years some of these guys didn't want to talk about the free play bonanza (especially using multiple cards) and that was fine, but don't tell half the story. I think this can be talked about now. There IS an initial cost to this play. And that is a large coin-in play that initiates the offers. I don't know why they are leaving this out. The offers that roll in for up to 6 months are worth much more than the cost of that initial coin in.

I have used this play, albeit, a much smaller level than I am now learning some of these guys played for my first 10 years in Vegas, to supplement my blackjack play and income. I did so because I was convinced by another AP that not taking advantage of these disproportionately lucrative mail offers was leaving money on the table.

So here is how it worked for me at my lower level. The play starts with a big coin in. I decided what I wanted that amount to be and when I hit it, I was done. No wiggle room. No extra play (because it is initially -EV). I wanted to hit the target that would generate the offers I was looking for and that is it.

So then a month, or 2 months at some locations, the mailer offers would start rolling in. At my prime I was getting 30 mailers a month and another 10 -12 in my partners name. Usually for 2 months, I would get the top amount of free play that I was looking for, followed by 2 months at about half that and then 2 months reduced even more (maybe a quarter of the first two months). The offers would continue to go down but I wasn't interested after that third reduction. At that point it wasn't worth it to chase these smaller amounts all over the city, so that is whn I would hit another large coin-in and start the cycle all over again. For me, the totality of the free play was 4-5 times the cost of that initial coin in. But only if you were disciplined enough to stick to the target and only play the free play amounts. Any "extra" play would eat into the who thing considerably.

So that is it. Unless I am missing something, these other guys are/were just doing much larger amounts than I was. I was just supplementing my main AP income from blackjack. I also hated doing this. I don't enjoy and kind of machine play. And I hated taking time away from what I really moved to Vegas for, to play blackjack. As soon as I could, I pushed this play off on my partner and he handled all our play which we split. He passed away at just the time Vegas casinos began tightening up on mailer offers (lead by Boyd with others to follow). There are still a couple good places. I am down to 3 or 4, well 2 or 3 individual casinos plus one chain. I suppose there are a few more if I looked.

But what I have learned from these discussions on both forums is that other parts of the country have not yet caugh up to Vegas in reducing these mailer offers. That in no surprise, like with 6:5 blackjack and hit soft 21 blackjack and reduced VP paytables, Vegas seems to lead the way on these cuts or negative things and the rest of the country follows.

So you are absolutely correct Alan, there is a cost that isn't being shared for whatever reason.
AlanMendelson
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May 30th, 2022 at 10:58:05 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: AlanMendelson



Wendover at their $5 table with no setting allowed.



that's kinna interesting - I've never heard of "no setting allowed" before

so, the casino actually believes the player can get an edge by setting the dice and this rule is to prevent that_______?



I don't actually play craps - jut fool around on the Wiz's online craps - and enjoy analyzing various strategies

.
link to original post



There is a sign on the table at Peppermill that says "no setting"

I was barred from playing at MGM and NYNY for setting. And I did not delay the game. And while this forum does not believe setting has any value it does have a value with a controlled throw.

With an uncontrolled throw setting has no value.

At Bellagio years ago I was in a heated argument with a table crew over my controlled throw. But it was a legal throw with both dice hitting the back Wall. Management later apologized to me for the problem with the crew.
Dieter
Administrator
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May 30th, 2022 at 11:08:03 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

So you are absolutely correct Alan, there is a cost that isn't being shared for whatever reason.
link to original post



(quote truncated)

I, for one, am not getting my nose out of joint.
Saying that there is an initiating play requirement is probably not a secret.
Saying that playing exactly $17 (example only; change some numbers and maybe add a zero or 3) with some other suggestions could be leaking the secret sauce.
May the cards fall in your favor.
kewlj
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May 30th, 2022 at 11:08:37 AM permalink
So this dice setting technique that you do and believe in, that has netted you how much profit Alan? I mean THAT is really the bottom line isn't it?
darkoz
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May 30th, 2022 at 11:21:47 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Alan, you have every right to be a bit annoyed that some of these guys are only telling part of their stories. (Don't get excited Mods, I am not talking about you know who).

If someone is going to reveal a play like Darkoz had, he should reveal the entire cost of the play. Not doing so just is not very honest. For years some of these guys didn't want to talk about the free play bonanza (especially using multiple cards) and that was fine, but don't tell half the story. I think this can be talked about now. There IS an initial cost to this play. And that is a large coin-in play that initiates the offers. I don't know why they are leaving this out.

So you are absolutely correct Alan, there is a cost that isn't being shared for whatever reason.
link to original post



I understand not everyone has time to read everything I write so I forgive you for any oversight.

I have been quite up front with seed money costs.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling-outside-vegas/atlantic-city/36900-gn-ac-vs-darkoz/6/

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
BillHasRetired
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May 30th, 2022 at 11:32:00 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster



that's kinna interesting - I've never heard of "no setting allowed" before

so, the casino actually believes the player can get an edge by setting the dice and this rule is to prevent that_______?

link to original post



AlHanbra Casino, Aruba, 2008--I got tossed off the only open table (only had one other player, too) because I was setting dice and lofting them. It was a $5 table too. It was all so bogus. I certainly wasn't slowing down the game, and soon after I was tossed, the other player left leaving zero craps action in the entire place. Good job, pit boss.

Browned me off to that place for the rest of the vacation, which actually turned out to be a good thing. After all, I was there with my family, and didn't go specifically to gamble, so...they lost any action I'd give them, and I spent more time with the fam.
kewlj
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May 30th, 2022 at 11:32:11 AM permalink
I only have a minute as I am heading out to play today, still taking advantage of holiday weekend crowds for cover, one last session.

I don't want to get into a big bru-ha with you over this darkoz, but when you claim you "made" 20k on some particular week from free play, I don't beleive you calculated the initial cost of the large coin in did you? And that cost btw, would be in expectation (EV) not whether you or whoever put through the initial coin-in won or lost....THAT is just variance.

I think most of us, especially anyone who has done any variation of this play, even at lower levels like myself, understood this. But obviously to someone like Alan, they don't understand and I think that is because you were intentionally vague about this initial coin-in (or seed money as you call it).

It's all good though. I have said my piece on this. Happy Memorail Day to all and bless those who served protecting and promoting the way of life that I so enjoy.
darkoz
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May 30th, 2022 at 11:37:04 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I only have a minute as I am heading out to play today, still taking advantage of holiday weekend crowds for cover, one last session.

I don't want to get into a big bru-ha with you over this darkoz, but when you claim you "made" 20k on some particular week from free play, I don't beleive you calculated the initial cost of the large coin in did you? And that cost btw, would be in expectation (EV) not whether you or whoever put through the initial coin-in won or lost....THAT is just variance.

I think most of us, especially anyone who has done any variation of this play, even at lower levels like myself, understood this. But obviously to someone like Alan, they don't understand and I think that is because you were intentionally vague about this initial coin-in (or seed money as you call it).

It's all good though. I have said my piece on this. Happy Memorail Day to all and bless those who served protecting and promoting the way of life that I so enjoy.
link to original post



The only brouhaha is that you are commenting on what I didn't mention or misconstrued without reading the link (labeled part 13 on that page).

I spelled out pretty much everything you say I am guilty of not spelling out.

So yes that would create a brouhaha with me. Simply read part 13 when you have the time and then return to this conversation.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
lilredrooster
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May 30th, 2022 at 12:54:28 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster



that's kinna interesting - I've never heard of "no setting allowed" before


so, the casino actually believes the player can get an edge by setting the dice and this rule is to prevent that__




elsewhere a high rolling BJ AP player whose words I believe and who refers to himself as being addictive and compulsive has posted that due to the fact that they knew who he was he was backed off while betting thousands at roulette and baccarat - no edge - playing minus EV - likely to lose big $$$$


maybe not a lot - but there's got to be at least a few real morons working as bosses at some casinos


.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on May 30, 2022
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
darkoz
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May 30th, 2022 at 1:25:30 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: lilredrooster



that's kinna interesting - I've never heard of "no setting allowed" before


so, the casino actually believes the player can get an edge by setting the dice and this rule is to prevent that__




elsewhere a high rolling BJ AP player whose words I believe and who refers to himself as being addictive and compulsive has posted that due to the fact that they knew who he was he was backed off while betting thousands at roulette and baccarat - no edge - playing minus EV - likely to lose big $$$$


maybe not a lot - but there's got to be at least a few real morons working as bosses at some casinos


.
link to original post



They are just employees trying to collect their check. They don't understand the games or the math.

They understand that Advantage Player knows how to take profit from them at Blackjack so if he is observed playing something else, then he must have figured out how to do it there as well.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
kewlj
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Dieter
May 30th, 2022 at 1:34:41 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: lilredrooster



that's kinna interesting - I've never heard of "no setting allowed" before


so, the casino actually believes the player can get an edge by setting the dice and this rule is to prevent that__




elsewhere a high rolling BJ AP player whose words I believe and who refers to himself as being addictive and compulsive has posted that due to the fact that they knew who he was he was backed off while betting thousands at roulette and baccarat - no edge - playing minus EV - likely to lose big $$$$


maybe not a lot - but there's got to be at least a few real morons working as bosses at some casinos
link to original post


So I am still sitting here on my balcony looking out at Vegas rather than out playing or doing anything else on probably the last of our beautiful days before summer really hits hard. I feel guilt about that, but am also enjoying the beautiful weather so...

Anyway. Pitbosses as morons. Lol.

Earlier this year I was playing off strip at a casino known for being very sweaty. No not the Spaniard place downtown, but there is a connection. So it was fairly early in the day and the $25 and $50 tables weren't open. So I was playing double deck at a $10 min table with one other player, a female between 35 and 45. ( I am not good at judging ages).

So this other player was spreading $10-$40. Really I only saw her bet $40 once, so she was effectively speading $10-$30. If she was max betting at $40, she was waiting too long to place that bet. As a matter of fact her whole bet ramp (when she placed the larger bets) was anything but optimal. Not even close. And her play wasn't very optimal either. Some strategy change index type plays weren't at the right numbers. She even made a few basic strategy mistakes. So nothing about her play was optimal. She was likely playing about a break even game at best.

So I was spreading $50-$300, but doing so in a manner that disguises my spread some, spreading both ways. Someone looking really has to see both negative counts and positive counts up to Maxbet to identify the whole spread.

So anyway, as you are probably guessing by now, after a couple shoes at this double deck game, Joe smoe, pit guy comes over and tells her she is not welcome to play blackjack anymore. She argues and such, which NEVER does any good, only makes you more memorable and then she glares at me. For a moment, I thought she was going to rat me out saying something about my play, but she didn't. She left.

So of course my point: This young lady was playing a break even game give or take with her effective $10-$30 spread and she was backed off. What morons!

AND I have seen a lot worse that that. I have seen players backed off that were no more counting cards that the man on the moon. They simply were varying wagers and Asian players do this A LOT. While sad it is also amusing because these players are genuinely confused when they are told they can't play.

Have these morons never experienced players increasing wagers because they are chasing losses? Never experienced players actually parlaying wins? Not every player varying wagers is a card counter. LOL
.
100xOdds
100xOdds
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May 30th, 2022 at 4:06:50 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

So here is how it worked for me at my lower level. The play starts with a big coin in. I decided what I wanted that amount to be and when I hit it, I was done. No wiggle room. No extra play (because it is initially -EV). I wanted to hit the target that would generate the offers I was looking for and that is it.

So then a month, or 2 months at some locations, the mailer offers would start rolling in. At my prime I was getting 30 mailers a month and another 10 -12 in my partners name. Usually for 2 months, I would get the top amount of free play that I was looking for, followed by 2 months at about half that and then 2 months reduced even more (maybe a quarter of the first two months). The offers would continue to go down but I wasn't interested after that third reduction. At that point it wasn't worth it to chase these smaller amounts all over the city, so that is when I would hit another large coin-in and start the cycle all over again. For me, the totality of the free play was 4-5 times the cost of that initial coin in. But only if you were disciplined enough to stick to the target and only play the free play amounts. Any "extra" play would eat into the who thing considerably.

link to original post

For me, i usually play +EV slots.
My freeplay is $150 x 2times/week plus a friends card $40 x 2times/week.
so i book a free room weds to thurs.
play the sun-weds freeplay, sleep, then play the thurs-Sat freeplay before i leave.

My coin-in for each day is waaaaay more than the $190 freeplay.
I do at least $1000 coin-in and probably avg $2k+ coin-in.

but it's not that much profit, on avg.
say the slot is at 103%.
$2000 x 103% = +$60 EV
(There are times where i lose 4 figures chasing a +ev play)

60 x 2 = $120/week
120 x 52 weeks = $6k profit

If I did it your way on 9/6 ddb (99% ev):
($190 x 2) x 1% loss = $376 profit/week, on avg

Thus:.
first 2 months: $376 x 8 weeks = $3k
next 2 months at 50% freeplay = 1.5k
last 2 months at 25% freeplay = $750
Total: 5250

Repeat for 2nd half of year:
$5250 x 2 = $10.5k

I've been doing it wrong all these years?!
Note: I gamble for entertainment and not make a living at it.
Last edited by: 100xOdds on May 30, 2022
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
kewlj
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May 30th, 2022 at 5:27:27 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds


I've been doing it wrong all these years?!
Note: I gamble for entertainment and not make a living at it.
link to original post



No, you are not doing it wrong. I am not sure there is a right or wrong. Your last line is most important. You gamble for entertainment and not making a living. So it sounds like you are adding a little Ev to your entertainment. Absoluetly nothing wrong with that. :)

I was doing this play as part of my income, part of making a living. So I wasn't mixing in any extra "entertainment" play, Just collecting my money trying to maximize return.
Seedvalue
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May 31st, 2022 at 12:23:03 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Quote: 100xOdds


I've been doing it wrong all these years?!
Note: I gamble for entertainment and not make a living at it.
link to original post



No, you are not doing it wrong. I am not sure there is a right or wrong. Your last line is most important. You gamble for entertainment and not making a living. So it sounds like you are adding a little Ev to your entertainment. Absoluetly nothing wrong with that. :)

I was doing this play as part of my income, part of making a living. So I wasn't mixing in any extra "entertainment" play, Just collecting my money trying to maximize return.
link to original post



Free play can be forever if you actually know the play that makes it so. But some guys wouldn’t understand that because they suck for free instead of getting paid for it.
Dieter
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Dieter
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May 31st, 2022 at 12:44:26 AM permalink
Quote: Seedvalue


But some guys wouldn’t understand that because they suck for free instead of getting paid for it.
link to original post



Personal insult. 3 days.
May the cards fall in your favor.
ChumpChange
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May 31st, 2022 at 2:00:48 AM permalink
I thought about playing video poker for a $20 meal, I'd have to coin in $12K to get $20, and coin-in $24K to get $20 of free play. At $1.25 per spin on a quarter machine, that'd be 9600 spins for a $20 meal and 19,200 spins for the $20 free play. I'd do so much better on video BJ to get points where I can get 2K to 4K of points ($20-$40 in food points or $10-$20 in free play) in 2-4 hours.
DogHand
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May 31st, 2022 at 3:24:40 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

<snip>But what I have learned from these discussions on both forums is that other parts of the country have not yet caugh up to Vegas in reducing these mailer offers. That in no surprise, like with 6:5 blackjack and hit soft 21 blackjack and reduced VP paytables, Vegas seems to lead the way on these cuts or negative things and the rest of the country follows. <snip>link to original post


kewlj,

If I found one of those "hit soft 21 blackjack" tables, I'd play all day long ;-)

Seriously, though, very good post clarifying the "coin-in/free play" issue.

Dog Hand
AlanMendelson
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May 31st, 2022 at 4:16:13 AM permalink
My final free play for May:

Had $5 @ Suncoast, cashed out $2.50
Had $15 @ Red Rock, that got me $11.25

On to June. But I think that by September Suncoast will be back to $5 which I suspect is their minimum (I go to $10 in June) and Red Rock will be continuing at $10 which I suspect is their minimum for table game players. I drop to $10 starting June.
100xOdds
100xOdds
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May 31st, 2022 at 5:47:25 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

My final free play for May:

Had $5 @ Suncoast, cashed out $2.50
Had $15 @ Red Rock, that got me $11.25

On to June. But I think that by September Suncoast will be back to $5 which I suspect is their minimum (I go to $10 in June) and Red Rock will be continuing at $10 which I suspect is their minimum for table game players. I drop to $10 starting June.
link to original post

so you'r doing your own experiment of how long they'll give you freeplay without additional play?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
darkoz
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May 31st, 2022 at 6:35:26 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: AlanMendelson

My final free play for May:

Had $5 @ Suncoast, cashed out $2.50
Had $15 @ Red Rock, that got me $11.25

On to June. But I think that by September Suncoast will be back to $5 which I suspect is their minimum (I go to $10 in June) and Red Rock will be continuing at $10 which I suspect is their minimum for table game players. I drop to $10 starting June.
link to original post

so you'r doing your own experiment of how long they'll give you freeplay without additional play?
link to original post



If Alan and Mdawg were in the know they would be able to find out how long the freeplay lasts sans additional play without having to actually wait month after month.

Like literally they could find out today.

MDawg thinks he's the pro but can't figure this one out. Ridiculous!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
100xOdds
100xOdds
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May 31st, 2022 at 7:27:02 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

If Alan and Mdawg were in the know they would be able to find out how long the freeplay lasts sans additional play without having to actually wait month after month.

Like literally they could find out today.

MDawg thinks he's the pro but can't figure this one out. Ridiculous!
link to original post

Was going to ask you about this in PM but can't send it to you.

You turned off PM?
Or is WoO having a problem with that?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
AlanMendelson
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May 31st, 2022 at 7:29:36 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: AlanMendelson

My final free play for May:

Had $5 @ Suncoast, cashed out $2.50
Had $15 @ Red Rock, that got me $11.25

On to June. But I think that by September Suncoast will be back to $5 which I suspect is their minimum (I go to $10 in June) and Red Rock will be continuing at $10 which I suspect is their minimum for table game players. I drop to $10 starting June.
link to original post

so you'r doing your own experiment of how long they'll give you freeplay without additional play?
link to original post



It's not an experiment because this is nothing new. Casinos have a history of downgrading free play without additional play.

I don't bother to report the $20 per stay that Caesars offers when I used to get as much as $2500 per stay and the reason is I havent been at a Caesars property in about five years.
Mosca
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May 31st, 2022 at 7:57:13 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

My final free play for May:

Had $5 @ Suncoast, cashed out $2.50
Had $15 @ Red Rock, that got me $11.25

On to June. But I think that by September Suncoast will be back to $5 which I suspect is their minimum (I go to $10 in June) and Red Rock will be continuing at $10 which I suspect is their minimum for table game players. I drop to $10 starting June.
link to original post



Just wait until it drops to "Play $50 to get $10 free play!" That's what I'm down to. When we go to Mohegan Pocono for our favorite restaurant (Rustic Kitchen), we don't bother with the casino at all any more.
A falling knife has no handle.
kewlj
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May 31st, 2022 at 8:28:43 AM permalink
Quote: DogHand



If I found one of those "hit soft 21 blackjack" tables, I'd play all day long ;-)

Seriously, though, very good post clarifying the "coin-in/free play" issue.

Dog Hand
link to original post



Thanks for correcting (sort of) my mistake Doghand. Obviously I meant hit soft 17. lol.
darkoz
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May 31st, 2022 at 8:34:42 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: darkoz

If Alan and Mdawg were in the know they would be able to find out how long the freeplay lasts sans additional play without having to actually wait month after month.

Like literally they could find out today.

MDawg thinks he's the pro but can't figure this one out. Ridiculous!
link to original post

Was going to ask you about this in PM but can't send it to you.

You turned off PM?
Or is WoO having a problem with that?
link to original post



I didn't even know you could turn off PM so it's probably a woo issue.

I will try sending to you.

EDIT:. I can't send to you but had no problem sending to Dieter.

Let's see if he can figure out what the problem is.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Dieter
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May 31st, 2022 at 8:44:31 AM permalink
I'll get Miro. This is part of the deep magic, and my hat is not configured for the proper shade of green and suitable pointiness.

If you have older PM exchanges, it sometimes works to reply to an old PM when the system gets persnickety about a new-from-scratch PM.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AlanMendelson
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June 4th, 2022 at 9:22:55 PM permalink
Just played my new level of $10 free play at Suncoast on 8/5 Bonus $1.25 per hand.
Cashed out $5.
I expected $3.75
tuttigym
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June 5th, 2022 at 8:31:23 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Just played my new level of $10 free play at Suncoast on 8/5 Bonus $1.25 per hand.
Cashed out $5.
I expected $3.75
link to original post


June 4: How many casinos did you hit today? How far did you travel from your home to the casino(s)? Did you do any additional play? What did you do the rest of the day? And finally, are you out of your mind? $5.00 Really?

You need to start a thread similar to McDawgs adventures and give us a blow by blow diary of your gambling days.
That might really be entertaining. Just sayin'

tuttigym
AlanMendelson
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June 5th, 2022 at 9:04:28 AM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Quote: AlanMendelson

Just played my new level of $10 free play at Suncoast on 8/5 Bonus $1.25 per hand.
Cashed out $5.
I expected $3.75
link to original post


June 4: How many casinos did you hit today? How far did you travel from your home to the casino(s)? Did you do any additional play? What did you do the rest of the day? And finally, are you out of your mind? $5.00 Really?

You need to start a thread similar to McDawgs adventures and give us a blow by blow diary of your gambling days.
That might really be entertaining. Just sayin'

tuttigym
link to original post



I live less than a mile from Suncoast, just a mile from Red Rock.

I'm not a machine player.

I do this as an experiment.

Pre Covid Red Rock would give as much as $75, twice a week or three times a week for VP. Suncoast gave as much as $45 a couple of times a week.

It's been interesting watching how the machine free play tumbled.

More curious is that I was at $5/visit at Suncoast for the last couple of months. But this month it was raised to $10/visit with no additional play.

By the way I havent played craps at Suncoast in more than three months.

Tuttigym you are very critical of what others do. Lighten up.

Even if I traveled 30 miles for $5 of free play what does it matter to you?

We are all grownups here. Each of us has our reasons for what we do.

Sometimes we just might want to go for a ride a drop $20 in a bar top.

Several years ago Janet and I would go to local bar, grab their daily food special, and put 20 in their bar top VP machine. Maybe that's not your cup of tea. We enjoyed it.

To answer your question... after my 8 hands of VP I walked out and drove home. I'm not out of my mind. You should be suspended.
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