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Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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July 9th, 2016 at 7:03:29 PM permalink
I may have to block 2f now - I hate the deleted edit
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
djatc
djatc
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July 9th, 2016 at 10:11:10 PM permalink
deleted
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
RS
RS
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July 9th, 2016 at 10:11:36 PM permalink
deleted
PokerGrinder
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July 9th, 2016 at 10:40:09 PM permalink
deleted
(I wanted to be one of the cool kids)
Last edited by: PokerGrinder on Jul 9, 2016
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. ó Amarillo Slim Preston
darkoz
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July 9th, 2016 at 11:19:42 PM permalink
Oh hell, why not

Edited for television and the internet.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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July 10th, 2016 at 5:29:17 AM permalink
Lemmings...
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
djatc
djatc
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July 10th, 2016 at 4:30:27 PM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Lemmings...



Redacted



DELETED AP CONTENT THANKS TO:



Voodoo systems
Over time
Today or tomorrow
Eventually
4 realz
Take all your money
Really
Uh huh
Money gone,
Poo poo

PS. FREE MAXPEN
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Maniacwarrrt
Maniacwarrrt
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July 10th, 2016 at 4:54:57 PM permalink
Well, guess I learned a hard lesson

I was so sure I watched letswin carefully enough when he was showing me his play, to have figured it out on my own. Theres something with the seeding element of the rng in those baccarat machines thats exploitable. I saw him, in person, turn $500 into $2500. Cash out. Then turn $1000 into $4500. Cash out.

I saw an asian kid with a black kid do something similar a few seats behind him. They won a shit load of $500 wagers. So I know, whatever hes doing? Some others have figured it out too. Unfortunately for me? I lost over $12750 trying to figure it out myself. Stupid. Very stupid. I was up $4500 at first. Which got me excited, hooked, and I ended up losing it back plus much more.

Since I burned through my gambling bank roll Im going to reluctantly take letswin up on his offer. At least I can dive deeper into whatever this is hes doing without risking my own money.
Wizardofnothing
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July 10th, 2016 at 5:45:59 PM permalink
That was the post of the year!!!!!!!! You steal his system then you want to come crawling back
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
darkoz
darkoz 
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July 10th, 2016 at 5:49:00 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

That was the post of the year!!!!!!!! You steal his system then you want to come crawling back



Actually he says "there's something with the seeding of the rng....that makes it exploitable."

In other words, he has no idea what it is, he just decided to go play Baccarat... then was shocked he lost 12 grand.

I don't know if it can be considered stealing someone's system if you haven't figured out yet what it is, lol.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
andysif
andysif
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July 10th, 2016 at 6:18:09 PM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Well, guess I learned a hard lesson

I was so sure I watched letswin carefully enough when he was showing me his play, to have figured it out on my own. Theres something with the seeding element of the rng in those baccarat machines thats exploitable. I saw him, in person, turn $500 into $2500. Cash out. Then turn $1000 into $4500. Cash out.

I saw an asian kid with a black kid do something similar a few seats behind him. They won a shit load of $500 wagers. So I know, whatever hes doing? Some others have figured it out too. Unfortunately for me? I lost over $12750 trying to figure it out myself. Stupid. Very stupid. I was up $4500 at first. Which got me excited, hooked, and I ended up losing it back plus much more.

Since I burned through my gambling bank roll Im going to reluctantly take letswin up on his offer. At least I can dive deeper into whatever this is hes doing without risking my own money.


and no more independent mind that wants to explore now ha. LOL

and now that you seems to have taken the place for spoke person for Letswin, could you please explain how this "RNG bug" can represent itself as the holy grail of baccarat, how is it "random beating random", and how is it possible to win every live shoe game?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 10th, 2016 at 7:12:21 PM permalink
Obviously the "new guy" is trying to convince us we should join letswin's team.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Maniacwarrrt
Maniacwarrrt
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July 10th, 2016 at 7:24:36 PM permalink
Quote: andysif

and no more independent mind that wants to explore now ha. LOL

and now that you seems to have taken the place for spoke person for Letswin, could you please explain how this "RNG bug" can represent itself as the holy grail of baccarat, how is it "random beating random", and how is it possible to win every live shoe game?



Kick me while im down? What a classy thing to do.

I lost money. I obviously thought I knew what he was doing by just watching him play. I was wrong
Maniacwarrrt
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July 10th, 2016 at 7:29:33 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Obviously the "new guy" is trying to convince us we should join letswin's team.



I went to the casino and lost over twelve thousand dollars trying to do some thing I thought would work. I and one other person here said that letswin did not try to sell us anything, when he was banned for system selling. Theres people here claiming to know what letswin is doing, yet so far? Ive only seen myself and wizardfnothing are the only two people with real communication or contact with him since he made the offer.

The conclusion? Im trying to get people to join letswins team, for no gain for me or him ""obviously". And Im getting made fun of for losing money? What kind of people do that?

Im pissed off I lost twelve grand. I dont even know why I continue to post on a forum that says things just to say it. I know for a fact none of you win any money. Other wise youd be smart enough to get all your facts straight before opening your mouth
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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July 10th, 2016 at 7:35:58 PM permalink
Facts? We don't need no stinking facts!

Welcome aboard matey, the seas are a bit rough at the moment, but I hear there's a double ration of rum tonight!
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
andysif
andysif
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July 10th, 2016 at 10:17:42 PM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Kick me while im down? What a classy thing to do.

I lost money. I obviously thought I knew what he was doing by just watching him play. I was wrong



so you said you were a programmer.

and you said letswin said his system was a RNG bug.

and then you said you thought you knew what he was doing by just watching him play.

a programmer thinks he can hack a RNG bug just by watching other people play. what can i say, brilliant.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 10th, 2016 at 10:51:53 PM permalink
Quote: andysif

so you said you were a programmer.

and you said letswin said his system was a RNG bug.

and then you said you thought you knew what he was doing by just watching him play.

a programmer thinks he can hack a RNG bug just by watching other people play. what can i say, brilliant.



We are wasting our time. I'm not saying he's a sockpuppet however his posts reek of some scheme to entice and validate getting mixed up in this. From the information I got and if that information is true it's illegal.

The way in which he wanted to do it was definitely illegal in NV. Feeding information how to play via text message.

Millions in profits will get someones attention, I'm very surprised someone hasn't called the casino, manufacturers perhaps they have alerted gaming. We have game protection people on this site. Someone who actually try's this could be walking into a trap.
Hell, since the OP seems so willing to meet up with people, there's a chance he might end up meeting with an undercover agent. It just isn't adding up, he's so willing to work with random people and post this publicly.

It would be very easy to get people involved if it really worked without hitting up a public forum.

Think about it. If you had something like this and you wanted to exploit it, would you go about like the OP is? It seems like one of the worst way's possible IMO.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RonC
RonC
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July 11th, 2016 at 12:07:11 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Max. You know better. I know you do.

3 days, personal insult + racial slur.



Wow. Just wow.

He "insulted" a guy who was, if one believes what the fellow wrote, going to meet the OP and see if he could steal his system/method/pattern.

It was barely an insult and there was nothing racial about it--Chinese hackers are out there stealing stuff all the time. Asking some one if they are "Chinese" in this context is simply comparing them to what is going on in the real world; not a racial slur.

If we really think about it, why would we allow someone to continue to post who admits meeting a guy to basically see if he can steal his play?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 11th, 2016 at 1:10:13 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

Wow. Just wow.

He "insulted" a guy who was, if one believes what the fellow wrote, going to meet the OP and see if he could steal his system/method/pattern.

It was barely an insult and there was nothing racial about it--Chinese hackers are out there stealing stuff all the time. Asking some one if they are "Chinese" in this context is simply comparing them to what is going on in the real world; not a racial slur.

If we really think about it, why would we allow someone to continue to post who admits meeting a guy to basically see if he can steal his play?

Ya but...... can you really meet and steal from yourself?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 11th, 2016 at 2:24:49 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

Wow. Just wow.

He "insulted" a guy who was, if one believes what the fellow wrote, going to meet the OP and see if he could steal his system/method/pattern.

It was barely an insult and there was nothing racial about it--Chinese hackers are out there stealing stuff all the time. Asking some one if they are "Chinese" in this context is simply comparing them to what is going on in the real world; not a racial slur.

If we really think about it, why would we allow someone to continue to post who admits meeting a guy to basically see if he can steal his play?



I got 2 member complaints about it. I personally did not see the problem, but they did. I don't really think I had much choice, unfortunately.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
TwoFeathersATL
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July 11th, 2016 at 4:06:20 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I got 2 member complaints about it. I personally did not see the problem, but they did. I don't really think I had much choice, unfortunately.

Some people complain too much.
That statement sounds like a complaint itself.
Good Grief!
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
Maniacwarrrt
Maniacwarrrt
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July 11th, 2016 at 4:51:18 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I got 2 member complaints about it. I personally did not see the problem, but they did. I don't really think I had much choice, unfortunately.



I wasnt offended by some one asking me if Im chinese. Last time I heard some one say things like that? Was in high school. Im not chinese, however, if some one is going to say some thing high school, ignorant, and childish? Like asking me if my race defines my actions? As if some how only certain races do certain things? I just ignore the post.

Im more offended when a person makes a mockery of me losing 12000 or more at the casino. Thats not funny
Romes
Romes
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July 11th, 2016 at 6:53:59 AM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Well, guess I learned a hard lesson

I was so sure I watched letswin carefully enough when he was showing me his play, to have figured it out on my own. Theres something with the seeding element of the rng in those baccarat machines thats exploitable. I saw him, in person, turn $500 into $2500. Cash out. Then turn $1000 into $4500. Cash out.

I saw an asian kid with a black kid do something similar a few seats behind him. They won a shit load of $500 wagers. So I know, whatever hes doing? Some others have figured it out too. Unfortunately for me? I lost over $12750 trying to figure it out myself. Stupid. Very stupid. I was up $4500 at first. Which got me excited, hooked, and I ended up losing it back plus much more.

Since I burned through my gambling bank roll Im going to reluctantly take letswin up on his offer. At least I can dive deeper into whatever this is hes doing without risking my own money.

And here squattith the toad of truth...

Let us all recall the video poker "glitch" that allowed 2 men from Pennsylvania to constantly win jackpots. The casinos didn't figure out the glitches. No. What did they do? They noticed their machines were taking a beating, moved them, took them out, and started watching them and the people that played them.

The same would happen in this situation. If you can beat one of their machines, then you're on borrowed time until they figure out why the machines are constantly coming in negative. After all, how many people really bet $500 on video baccarat? Certainly not enough to offset the action and consistent winning of letswin and his "teammates." Any high limit baccarat player would prefer to be at the table with their other superstitious table mates and being treated like a high roller in the high limit room... Not in front of a machine like a typical slot player.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
darkoz
darkoz 
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July 11th, 2016 at 6:56:57 AM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

I wasnt offended by some one asking me if Im chinese. Last time I heard some one say things like that? Was in high school. Im not chinese, however, if some one is going to say some thing high school, ignorant, and childish? Like asking me if my race defines my actions? As if some how only certain races do certain things? I just ignore the post.

Im more offended when a person makes a mockery of me losing 12000 or more at the casino. Thats not funny



We're not laughing cuz you lost money at the casino - every gambler does that (although we do laugh/feel bad/criticize ploppies on here all the time.

We're laughing because you said you figured out his system just by watching him and then failed miserably.

I too cannot understand what you could have done to believe you understand his secret. You say you observed his play? So, you sat there while he bet banker and player while checking his phone for texts? Because that's the gist of his system. Any software he is running wouldn't be with him and I doubt he would have shown it to you.

SO, you saw him bet banker and win, you saw him make some other player bets and win and then said, "Got it."

That's what we are laughing at.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz 
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July 11th, 2016 at 7:01:11 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

And here squattith the toad of truth...

Let us all recall the video poker "glitch" that allowed 2 men from Pennsylvania to constantly win jackpots. The casinos didn't figure out the glitches. No. What did they do? They noticed their machines were taking a beating, moved them, took them out, and started watching them and the people that played them.

The same would happen in this situation. If you can beat one of their machines, then you're on borrowed time until they figure out why the machines are constantly coming in negative. After all, how many people really bet $500 on video baccarat? Certainly not enough to offset the action and consistent winning of letswin and his "teammates." Any high limit baccarat player would prefer to be at the table with their other superstitious table mates and being treated like a high roller in the high limit room... Not in front of a machine like a typical slot player.



Normally I would agree with you Romes, but the "high limit area" at Resorts is a joke. Anyone can walk in and since everything is automated there, the high limit is $2000 versus $1000 in the regular areas so there really aren't the image of the "high rollers" you are referring to there.

However, I do agree they would notice if money was going in the wrong direction. In fact, it happened when a glitch was observed at their Craps game a few years ago and a hundred grand walked out the door in one day. Next day, machines were all shut down.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
OnceDear
OnceDear 
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July 11th, 2016 at 8:16:04 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Obviously the "new guy" is trying to convince us we should join letswin's team.


You can't buy advertising this good.
Gotta hand it to Letswin. he doesn't even need to write the copy for his own promotional posts.
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is NOT a winning strategy: Pressing into trends is NOT a winning strategy: Progressive betting systems are NOT a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
RonC
RonC
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July 11th, 2016 at 8:35:14 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I got 2 member complaints about it. I personally did not see the problem, but they did. I don't really think I had much choice, unfortunately.



I find that "no choice" statement interesting--obviously, you did have a choice just as you did when you suspended someone for an offense for which Face had already issued a warning. I'm not saying you are wrong, but you do have a degree of latitude when it comes to these things. If you didn't see the problem, then why make the choice to suspend instead of just saying "that was close to the line; step over it and you'll get a couple of days off"??
Maniacwarrrt
Maniacwarrrt
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July 11th, 2016 at 9:47:46 AM permalink
I have been accused of more things on this site than any where else in the world. Im a shill, a thief, and Im Chinese.

Cant make this stuff up. I also dont see how trying to figure out what another player was doing in a casino to profit, so I can profit on my own the same way is stealing. I never said I wanted to take his idea and sell it and claim it as my own. Now THAT is stealing.

But, in this place? People call things what they want to call them, even if its not that. And then its decided as a fact by the consensus, with or without proof, and immediately acted upon. So because it was stated? Regardless of the reality? I am a chinese thief, working as a shill for letswin.

I guess wizardofnothing, who also contacted letswin or has met him already, is also a shill too?
Maniacwarrrt
Maniacwarrrt
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July 11th, 2016 at 9:55:17 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

We're not laughing cuz you lost money at the casino - every gambler does that (although we do laugh/feel bad/criticize ploppies on here all the time.

We're laughing because you said you figured out his system just by watching him and then failed miserably.

I too cannot understand what you could have done to believe you understand his secret. You say you observed his play? So, you sat there while he bet banker and player while checking his phone for texts? Because that's the gist of his system. Any software he is running wouldn't be with him and I doubt he would have shown it to you.

SO, you saw him bet banker and win, you saw him make some other player bets and win and then said, "Got it."

That's what we are laughing at.




How is it ok to laugh at anyones failure whatsoever? That only leads me to further believe there arent many winners on here. Winners encourage those who fail to find answers and solutions to avoid further failure. As all winners at one time knew how it felt to lose before becoming a winner. They can relate to the terrible feeling of losing. Real concern.

Losers point fingers - "aha! You lost" while thinking in their heads 'glad it wasnt me'. Real
Crummy.
TomG
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July 11th, 2016 at 10:01:10 AM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Winners encourage those who fail to find answers and solutions to avoid further failure.



Everyone here was encouraging you to take the path that would have let you win. You only lost because you got greedy trying to steal his play.
RonC
RonC
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July 11th, 2016 at 10:04:03 AM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

I have been accused of more things on this site than any where else in the world. Im a shill, a thief, and Im Chinese.



--the "Chinese" thing was more of a comment on all of the stuff that China is involved with like stealing ideas, hacking our systems, etc. I don't think it was an actual reference to your race, religion, or creed as much as comparing what you were trying to do to what the Chinese (not every Chinese person, of course) do a whole lot of...

--being accused of being a thief when you tell a guy you want to see his system and then try to copy it on your own is pretty standard

--Your appearance here saying that he is winning with his system is something that shills have done from time to time...hence the idea that you could be one...

Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Cant make this stuff up. I also dont see how trying to figure out what another player was doing in a casino to profit, so I can profit on my own the same way is stealing. I never said I wanted to take his idea and sell it and claim it as my own. Now THAT is stealing.



If I do something and I bring you in to possibly be part of it and you instead try to learn it and do it for yourself, you have stolen the idea, or attempted to do so.

The good thing is that, if this play is as illegal as has been mentioned, you will be in the clear when the law catches up to the problem.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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Thanks for this post from:
NDnathan
July 11th, 2016 at 10:28:46 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs


I've given you several hours to respond to my PM. You've indicated you're online that whole time. But no response.

I think your reply above indicates you're hiding behind semantics rather than being factually able to rebut that you're using this forum to find customers (not "team members"). Accordingly, letswin is banned for system selling. You may appeal to the Wizard if you wish.



I respect all the administrators, and Babs in particular, but I am discouraged by the decision to ban letswin.

The OP, letswin, knew (or claimed to know) something that most of us didn't: that there was an error in the randomness of an automated shuffler for a baccarat game. Many of us would have appreciated a chance to interact with the OP so that we could have learned more - and, as adults, we were fully capable of protecting our own pocketbooks while having those discussions. Your banning of letswin prevents us from communicating with him and learning more. The forum members in here are not "virgins" and did not need you to intervene and protect our virtue.

The OP literally was NOT breaking your rules by "selling a system" - he was recruiting people for a team, just as he said. His terms and conditions for the team could be argued to be unfavorable or favorable - but forum members could have decided that for themselves. Your decision seems to me to have been heavy-handed. IMO, you should have waited several days - not hours - before banning a person for not responding to a PM.

The major reason I (and many others) check the WOV forum boards occasionally is to learn of things that other gambling "experts" have noticed or thought of and to keep abreast of new developments. I tell you this from the heart - when administrators descend like the angel of vengeance onto posters like letswin, who knew of an RNG error in shuffler software, you damage the long-term commercial viability of the WOV site - because you diminish the incentives for many of us to even get onto the site.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Maniacwarrrt
Maniacwarrrt
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July 11th, 2016 at 10:30:37 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

--the "Chinese" thing was more of a comment on all of the stuff that China is involved with like stealing ideas, hacking our systems, etc. I don't think it was an actual reference to your race, religion, or creed as much as comparing what you were trying to do to what the Chinese (not every Chinese person, of course) do a whole lot of...

--being accused of being a thief when you tell a guy you want to see his system and then try to copy it on your own is pretty standard

--Your appearance here saying that he is winning with his system is something that shills have done from time to time...hence the idea that you could be one...



If I do something and I bring you in to possibly be part of it and you instead try to learn it and do it for yourself, you have stolen the idea, or attempted to do so.

The good thing is that, if this play is as illegal as has been mentioned, you will be in the clear when the law catches up to the problem.



Im 100% sure what hes doing is not illegal. Im not even going to argue with the know it alls here. Its pointless.

Im also not going to argue the chinese thing. Its also stupid and pointless.

But the thief and shill part? One, how can I be a shill for a guy who isnt selling anything??? Two, sorry, but I 1000% disagree with you in what is considered stealing. Trying to figure out the inner workings of an idea that is being shown to me in plain sight for my own person gain, is not stealing. Thats intelligent capitalization. Unfortunately in my case? All I have to show foe my efforts is a twelve thousand dollar failure.

But the idea that everytime someone picks up on something they saw from observation and was able to put it into practice themselves without being taught, is stealing?! Strongly disagree
RonC
RonC
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July 11th, 2016 at 10:37:26 AM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

But the idea that everytime someone picks up on something they saw from observation and was able to put it into practice themselves without being taught, is stealing?! Strongly disagree



I would like to bet you $1 in monopoly money that he would not have let you see what he was doing if he did not think that you were considering joining him and his team.

I'd be careful on the legal thing; if you don't know exactly what he was doing, how can you know that the part you didn't figure out is legal?
Wizardofnothing
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July 11th, 2016 at 10:47:37 AM permalink
Just for the record I do not agree with the banning either.
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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July 11th, 2016 at 10:53:57 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

Wow. Just wow.

He "insulted" a guy who was, if one believes what the fellow wrote, going to meet the OP and see if he could steal his system/method/pattern.

If we really think about it, why would we allow someone to continue to post who admits meeting a guy to basically see if he can steal his play?



The use of the word "steal" is wrong -both on legal grounds and on ethical grounds.

If a gambler thinks he has determined that a certain table game or sidebet on a casino table game can yield a positive EV by counting cards, then it is natural that other gamblers might want to meet with that person and try to learn more and possibly try to figure it our for themselves. It happens all the time. And, unless the first gambler has copyrighted or patented his observation/idea - which would obviously never be the case - there is literally nothing to "steal" because nothing is owned.

Any lawyer would tell you that there is insufficient information on this thread to warrant the use of the word "illegal" when describing the OP's proposal - you shouldn't make judgments based on hearsay and on something for which you don't understand the details. So I suggest you cool your jets, calm down and try to think more clearly.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
RonC
RonC
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July 11th, 2016 at 11:03:07 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

The use of the word "steal" is wrong -both on legal grounds and on ethical grounds.

If a gambler thinks he has determined that a certain table game or sidebet on a casino table game can yield a positive EV by counting cards, then it is natural that other gamblers might want to meet with that person and try to learn more and possibly try to figure it our for themselves. It happens all the time. And, unless the first gambler has copyrighted or patented his observation/idea - which would obviously never be the case - there is literally nothing to "steal" because nothing is owned.

Any lawyer would tell you that there is insufficient information on this thread to warrant the use of the word "illegal" when describing the OP's proposal - you shouldn't make judgments based on hearsay and on something for which you don't understand the details. So I suggest you cool your jets, calm down and try to think more clearly.



No thanks...I was pretty clear on the whole issue...

Have a great day!
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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July 11th, 2016 at 11:10:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

Just for the record I do not agree with the banning either.



Wow, I am very impressed with the integrity that surely underlies this post. It is heartening to see that a dissenting opinion can be raised on the WOV forums and not automatically receive a 100% defensive response and that an administrator would express reservations about a specific banning action of another administrator. Specific issue aside, this shows a genuine honesty and integrity of deliberative thought processes. It elevates my opinion of the WOV forum and of all the admins - including Babs, who most of us respect for always trying to do the right thing.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 11th, 2016 at 11:18:43 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I respect all the administrators, and Babs in particular, but I am discouraged by the decision to ban letswin.

The OP, letswin, knew (or claimed to know) something that most of us didn't: that there was an error in the randomness of an automated shuffler for a baccarat game. Many of us would have appreciated a chance to interact with the OP so that we could have learned more - and, as adults, we were fully capable of protecting our own pocketbooks while having those discussions. Your banning of letswin prevents us from communicating with him and learning more. The forum members in here are not "virgins" and did not need you to intervene and protect our virtue.

The OP literally was NOT breaking your rules by "selling a system" - he was recruiting people for a team, just as he said. His terms and conditions for the team could be argued to be unfavorable or favorable - but forum members could have decided that for themselves. Your decision seems to me to have been heavy-handed. IMO, you should have waited several days - not hours - before banning a person for not responding to a PM.

The major reason I (and many others) check the WOV forum boards occasionally is to learn of things that other gambling "experts" have noticed or thought of and to keep abreast of new developments. I tell you this from the heart - when administrators descend like the angel of vengeance onto posters like letswin, who knew of an RNG error in shuffler software, you damage the long-term commercial viability of the WOV site - because you diminish the incentives for many of us to even get onto the site.

According to what he has told people so far It's either a scam or illegal, take your pick. IMO a Mod should protect the community.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
TomG
TomG
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July 11th, 2016 at 11:20:11 AM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Trying to figure out the inner workings of an idea that is being shown to me in plain sight for my own person gain, is not stealing. Thats intelligent capitalization. Unfortunately in my case? All I have to show foe my efforts is a twelve thousand dollar failure.



The only reason he met with you is because you said you had interest in being on his team. Yet you already knew being allowed to keep only 70% of profits wasn't good enough. So you met up to try to get as much information as you could and use it for yourself. Then when you couldn't figure it out, you blabbed all the details you knew, ensuring the play will be gone very soon.

You had the chance to earn a lot of money, but you got greedy and wanted even more, then ended up losing over $12,000. That's the exact opposite of intelligently capitalizing on your opportunity
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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July 11th, 2016 at 11:22:41 AM permalink
70% free roll is huge. Grosjean mentions 10% in CAA.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 11th, 2016 at 11:30:01 AM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Im 100% sure what hes doing is not illegal.

People were asked if they had access to certain types of baccarat machines not just at resorts world, IE NV. Then you would receive instructions what to bet via text. THAT'S ILLEGAL.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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July 11th, 2016 at 11:37:10 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

And here squattith the toad of truth...

Let us all recall the video poker "glitch" that allowed 2 men from Pennsylvania to constantly win jackpots. The casinos didn't figure out the glitches. No. What did they do? They noticed their machines were taking a beating, moved them, took them out, and started watching them and the people that played them.

The same would happen in this situation. If you can beat one of their machines, then you're on borrowed time until they figure out why the machines are constantly coming in negative. After all, how many people really bet $500 on video baccarat? Certainly not enough to offset the action and consistent winning of letswin and his "teammates." Any high limit baccarat player would prefer to be at the table with their other superstitious table mates and being treated like a high roller in the high limit room... Not in front of a machine like a typical slot player.

IIRC they barley got off and they were not using a cell phone or computer to aide them. They didn't have inside information. They weren't recruiting people on a forum.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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July 11th, 2016 at 11:54:02 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

The only reason he met with you is because you said you had interest in being on his team. Yet you already knew being allowed to keep only 70% of profits wasn't good enough. So you met up to try to get as much information as you could and use it for yourself. Then when you couldn't figure it out, you blabbed all the details you knew, ensuring the play will be gone very soon.

You had the chance to earn a lot of money, but you got greedy and wanted even more, then ended up losing over $12,000. That's the exact opposite of intelligently capitalizing on your opportunity

+1.

A 70% free roll even if it doesn't work it's one hell of a deal, it's unprecedented. I can't imagine offering to put up 100% of the money, give up 70% of the profits, you risk someone just taking off with your seed money and or profits.

I can only imagine someone offering that deal if they knew the person doing the deed was risking getting caught and going to jail. Even in cheating cases I have heard about one where the person with the knowledge and BR made a deal with a patsy they never offered such a good deal. #Most generous team leader in the world.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
OnceDear
OnceDear 
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July 11th, 2016 at 12:31:23 PM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Im. . . hes. . . Im. . . Its. . . Im. . . Its . . . isnt. . . Thats. . .


it's just random speculation, but are Letswin and Maniacwarrr the only two members of this forum who have NEVER used an apostrophe in any of their posts????
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is NOT a winning strategy: Pressing into trends is NOT a winning strategy: Progressive betting systems are NOT a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
vegas
vegas
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July 11th, 2016 at 12:38:20 PM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

I went to the casino and lost over twelve thousand dollars trying to do some thing I thought would work. I and one other person here said that letswin did not try to sell us anything, when he was banned for system selling. Theres people here claiming to know what letswin is doing, yet so far? Ive only seen myself and wizardfnothing are the only two people with real communication or contact with him since he made the offer.

The conclusion? Im trying to get people to join letswins team, for no gain for me or him ""obviously". And Im getting made fun of for losing money? What kind of people do that?

Im pissed off I lost twelve grand. I dont even know why I continue to post on a forum that says things just to say it. I know for a fact none of you win any money. Other wise youd be smart enough to get all your facts straight before opening your mouth







Your sentences in yellow say it all. How would you know who has made contact with him (if you wern't letswin). I mean does he run to you every time some one makes contact with him????
You seem to know a lot about this guy. How does he feel about you trying to duplicate his system on your own.....or does he not know as much about your business as you seem to do about his???
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
Maniacwarrrt
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July 11th, 2016 at 12:58:05 PM permalink
Quote: vegas

Quote: Maniacwarrrt

I went to the casino and lost over twelve thousand dollars trying to do some thing I thought would work. I and one other person here said that letswin did not try to sell us anything, when he was banned for system selling. Theres people here claiming to know what letswin is doing, yet so far? Ive only seen myself and wizardfnothing are the only two people with real communication or contact with him since he made the offer.

The conclusion? Im trying to get people to join letswins team, for no gain for me or him ""obviously". And Im getting made fun of for losing money? What kind of people do that?

Im pissed off I lost twelve grand. I dont even know why I continue to post on a forum that says things just to say it. I know for a fact none of you win any money. Other wise youd be smart enough to get all your facts straight before opening your mouth






Your sentences in yellow say it all. How would you know who has made contact with him (if you wern't letswin). I mean does he run to you every time some one makes contact with him????
You seem to know a lot about this guy. How does he feel about you trying to duplicate his system on your own.....or does he not know as much about your business as you seem to do about his???




Interesting. Gordonm888, makes a very powerful post of truth. Two of them actually. There was no reason to ban him. And look how look how ridiculously the negatives try everything in their power to find other ways to smear a guy. Redirect the attention. There has been over 7 hurried up posts, much more than usual, of other tactics, ever since gordon and wizard stated lots of truth, and silly banning a a guy for system selling who wasnt selling a system is. Hmmm. Why the rush to the other tactics huh? Since the "hes system selling and scamming" thing didnt work, here are the new tactics.

- hes doing something illegal then
- his chinese shill is trying to sell his method for him then
-look at his sentence structure? That's gotta be criminal!

I dont know who all contacted. I am so obviously speaking on behalf of the two people who posted in this thread that they contacted him. The ones we can ALL obviously know about. Myself and wizardofnothing. I know nothing other than what I see or prove. I make NO other judgement other wise. Apostrophes oncedear. Really? I mean. REALLY? Ha!!

Sadly? I can't say the same for others on this forum. Im going to take my chinese, shilling, thievery else where, before I myself become another major target of the "WOV" basement clique. ::shaking with fear::
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
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July 11th, 2016 at 1:07:59 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I respect all the administrators, and Babs in particular, but I am discouraged by the decision to ban letswin.

The OP, letswin, knew (or claimed to know) something that most of us didn't: that there was an error in the randomness of an automated shuffler for a baccarat game. Many of us would have appreciated a chance to interact with the OP so that we could have learned more - and, as adults, we were fully capable of protecting our own pocketbooks while having those discussions. Your banning of letswin prevents us from communicating with him and learning more. The forum members in here are not "virgins" and did not need you to intervene and protect our virtue.

The OP literally was NOT breaking your rules by "selling a system" - he was recruiting people for a team, just as he said. His terms and conditions for the team could be argued to be unfavorable or favorable - but forum members could have decided that for themselves. Your decision seems to me to have been heavy-handed. IMO, you should have waited several days - not hours - before banning a person for not responding to a PM.

The major reason I (and many others) check the WOV forum boards occasionally is to learn of things that other gambling "experts" have noticed or thought of and to keep abreast of new developments. I tell you this from the heart - when administrators descend like the angel of vengeance onto posters like letswin, who knew of an RNG error in shuffler software, you damage the long-term commercial viability of the WOV site - because you diminish the incentives for many of us to even get onto the site.



Gordon,

I agree with much of what you say here. In this case, a lot of info came thru pm's with other members who are at various stages of talking to letswin. Step 1 was preliminary caution, step 2 was asking him for any reason to know it was not system selling in looking to allow it, step 3 was waiting several hours while letswin was on the board to hear from him, during which time he actively PM'd at least 2 other people, and I received more info not helping his case to stay on. Step 4 was the ban, and step 5 was my caveat that he could be brought back if he's shown not to be a system seller. There are folks working on finding that out still.

There has to come a point where the members and the forum itself cannot support vague and specious claims from unknowns. We can't sponsor or encourage schemes, fallacies, illegality, or other illogic; the main reason for this forum and websites to exist is to provide honest and open information about gaming, using facts and solid mathematics.

If he has something, and it's not just a pigeon story, and doesn't put members at serious risk, he'll be restored and posting. If not, then we haven't advocated something against our base mission.

Sorry you don't agree with my decision. I would prefer the need be obvious, but I can't justify it further without violating various pm's.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Maniacwarrrt
Maniacwarrrt
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July 11th, 2016 at 1:19:00 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

Just for the record I do not agree with the banning either.



Neither do I. Why hasnt all the people who "supposedly" contacted him like us two, share the exact details of their experience? EVIDENCE. Unless this is the salem court?

And an exploitable bias in an rng software that gives you an edge, is no different than counting. Not illegal.

I will leave it at that. As obviously only wizard and I have the balls to come on here and say what their "contact" with letswin was really like
TomG
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July 11th, 2016 at 1:51:52 PM permalink
Quote: Maniacwarrrt

Why hasnt all the people who "supposedly" contacted him like us two, share the exact details of their experience?



Because unlike you, most people here are respectful of other peoples privacy and opportunities to earn an income. Based on what you've disclosed about the contact you've made, it's almost certain the play will be gone very soon. My guess is that was your intention for saying all this stuff here after he told you to get lost for thinking 70% wasn't enough.

Quote: Maniacwarrrt

And an exploitable bias in an rng software that gives you an edge, is no different than counting. Not illegal.



Using an electronic device to count cards is illegal. Using an electronic device for any purpose while sitting at a blackjack table is usually prohibited.

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