Coronavirus math
Quote: LethalWe didn't? This is incorrect. Also, there were other pandemics in this country where the founding fathers were still alive and not only would they lock down the colonies that were experiencing outbreaks, they would quarantine themselves to that colony if they were exposed.
To counter the half as much population I offer we have double the information we had at that time, and at that time even they knew that masks work.
Your logic is fallible, your confirmation biases are showing and you do more mental gymnastics to provide false information that is opinion and not factual.
Do you wear pants? Shoes? Shirt? Are you going to state that these are also against your personal freedom and you should not have to wear these in public? Particularly when you enter someone else's home or business?
Mask wearing proves to others whether you are a selfish easily led sheep that believes only convenient thoughts versus someone that remembers that freedoms come with responsibilities to the community that provides the means for that freedom to exist. Claiming that masks are unconstitutional is actually incorrect as well. Personal freedoms have been restricted legally in the past for public health considerations because the group is more important than the individual.
Actually saying "MASKSMASKSMASKS" shows you are the easily led sheep. You think a small piece of fiber will protect you and my not wearing one will kill you. I can't see how that is anything but being a sheep.
Sorry but I firmly believe these lockdowns are unconstitutional and are really just a means to get the sheep in line and the sheepdogs starved out. Meanwhile the sheep thank the wolves for a small check.
Quote: AZDuffmanJust going by what the maskers say. They keep saying most people want the masks.
Pathetic - straw man argument. Shifting the goal post to attempt to remain in control of the conversation. Logical Fallacies about when you reply.
You have no way of knowing what "The Maskers" with any more accuracy than attempting to tell us what "the maskers" ate for breakfast.
No one >wants< to wear the masks - or at least most Americans don't wish to according to recent polling. However even fewer wish to catch a potentially life damaging disease that does not need to kill to have a hugely negative effect on your day to day life. Also the people that have a conscience would rather be lightly inconvenienced than potentially spread a disease to the rest of the community they exist in.
Wearing a mask is so easily accomplished - it is just the silly entitled mindset of some that believe they know more than the scientists and doctors and other professionals and would rather get their information from their chosen political propaganda.
It is always sad to see someone die alone with only the gloved hand of a nurse they do not know holding their hand as they move into the next form of life - and it wreaks havoc on their families that could not say good bye.
But you keep not wearing a mask. It says everything that needs to be said about who you are.
Quote: AZDuffmanActually saying "MASKSMASKSMASKS" shows you are the easily led sheep. You think a small piece of fiber will protect you and my not wearing one will kill you. I can't see how that is anything but being a sheep.
Sorry but I firmly believe these lockdowns are unconstitutional and are really just a means to get the sheep in line and the sheepdogs starved out. Meanwhile the sheep thank the wolves for a small check.
No dear I assume fellow AZ resident - saying wear a mask shows that you put others on the same level of importance as you do yourself. Saying wear a mask shows that you understand basic scientific principals and would prefer to act according to those principals instead of acting as people too selfish to wear a mask show they lack any principals.
The lockdowns are not unconstitutional - but you go ahead and believe that - We live in the worst effected country in the world due to people that continue to believe that this pandemic is something they themselves have seen with their own lives in the past - but they haven't and they don't bother to attempt to understand it - they just boldly believe they are too strong and too smart to succumb to a virus that does not care what they think or how strong they are.
I am not going to waste too much time watching you chase your tail attempting to be correct when you are just mislead and misinformed. Trust those that are trustworthy and the people that are trustworthy in this world do not only think about themeselves.
I was inclined to suspend you for this post, which I personally find offensive and wilfully ignorant.Quote: AZDuffmanActually saying "MASKSMASKSMASKS" shows you are the easily led sheep. You think a small piece of fiber will protect you and my not wearing one will kill you. I can't see how that is anything but being a sheep.
Sorry but I firmly believe these lockdowns are unconstitutional and are really just a means to get the sheep in line and the sheepdogs starved out. Meanwhile the sheep thank the wolves for a small check.
But I'm not doing so this time. Please take, or keep, this controversial take on an already controversial topic, elsewhere. Call me a sheep or other perjoritive noun again and I will suspend.
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Controversial Speech: In an effort to keep the focus of the forum on gambling, Vegas, and math, comments of a political, racial, religious, sexual, or otherwise controversial nature are not allowed. We recommend taking such discussion elsewhere (Added 8/13/19).
Quote: AZDuffmanYou think a small piece of fiber will protect you and my not wearing one will kill you. I can't see how that is anything but being a sheep.
Sorry but even I being a non-frequent here can't help but notice you KEEP repeating this same erroneous statement time and time again.
Like if nothing anyone else says and links to ever enters your ears.
One MORE time. The main function of a simple cloth facemask is NOT to protect YOU. It is to protect EVERYONE ELSE.
Also, masks alone can provide only so much protection. It is the COMBINED effect of conforming to both facemasks, distancing, disinfection and avoiding gathering of people that MAKES THE BIG DIFFERENCE.
LOOK AT USA AND ITALY AND FRANCE AND UK AND SPAIN AND IRAN ETC AND HOW DID THEY APPROACH THE OUTBREAK AT FIRST AND IN GENERAL ON ONE HAND, AND SOUTH KOREA, NEW ZEALAND, JAPAN ETC ON THE OTHER.
Sorry for the capslock.
''Quote: LethalPathetic - straw man argument. Shifting the goal post to attempt to remain in control of the conversation. Logical Fallacies about when you reply.
You have no way of knowing what "The Maskers" with any more accuracy than attempting to tell us what "the maskers" ate for breakfast.
No one >wants< to wear the masks - or at least most Americans don't wish to according to recent polling. However even fewer wish to catch a potentially life damaging disease that does not need to kill to have a hugely negative effect on your day to day life. Also the people that have a conscience would rather be lightly inconvenienced than potentially spread a disease to the rest of the community they exist in.
Wearing a mask is so easily accomplished - it is just the silly entitled mindset of some that believe they know more than the scientists and doctors and other professionals and would rather get their information from their chosen political propaganda.
It is always sad to see someone die alone with only the gloved hand of a nurse they do not know holding their hand as they move into the next form of life - and it wreaks havoc on their families that could not say good bye.
But you keep not wearing a mask. It says everything that needs to be said about who you are.
I can see what the maskers want. Just need to watch them. They want everyone to be maskers because they think if they do it will all be over in a few weeks.
They wear fancy masks like a slave polishes his chains. They are proud to do what they are told to do.
As to "know more than the scientists and doctors" you prove you want to be told what to do. How accurate has any of it been? How many maskers catch the virus?
I do not believe things just because some government "scientist" gets on TV and says it is so.
Don't you believe even studies like this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7301882/#:~:text=We%20show%20that%20the%20use,droplets%20expelled%20from%20other%20subjects.&text=The%20implications%20of%20the%20reduced,more%20critical%20for%20healthcare%20workers.
?
No one, literally, believes "it will all be over in a few weeks" . What is known and proved to work in effectively slowing an outbreak like this until better cures and eventually a vaccine is available is not a matter of opinion. It's a scientific fact.
Masks wearing + social distancing + disinfecting = saves lives + alleviates social-economic and health care systems burden to society of having to deal with waves and waves of sick people until mass immunization eventually is available. It's so basic, so commonly known and so easy to understand I really struggle to get people's like you viewpoint...
Quote: rawtuffSo you "don't believe" masks are effectively reducing the spread of droplet transmitting pathogens? Why? What's the logic behind such skepticism?
Don't you believe even studies like this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7301882/#:~:text=We%20show%20that%20the%20use,droplets%20expelled%20from%20other%20subjects.&text=The%20implications%20of%20the%20reduced,more%20critical%20for%20healthcare%20workers.
?
No one, literally, believes "it will all be over in a few weeks" . What is known and proved to work in effectively slowing an outbreak like this until better cures and eventually a vaccine is available is not a matter of opinion. It's a scientific fact.
Masks wearing + social distancing + disinfecting = saves lives + alleviates social-economic and health care systems burden to society of having to deal with waves and waves of sick people until mass immunization eventually is available. It's so basic, so commonly known and so easy to understand I really struggle to get people's like you viewpoint...
It's the same mentality where a major storm or hurricane is on its way or volcano is about to erupt and people don't want to listen and refuse to evacuate their homes citing freedom blah blah.
They then drain the system with calls to 911 when they are sitting on their rooftop surrounded by miles of water or ask for a helicopter to rescue them from the raging lava.
After this drain on resources they will ask why the government didn't respond properly.
Quote: rawtuffSo you "don't believe" masks are effectively reducing the spread of droplet transmitting pathogens? Why? What's the logic behind such skepticism?
Don't you believe even studies like this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7301882/#:~:text=We%20show%20that%20the%20use,droplets%20expelled%20from%20other%20subjects.&text=The%20implications%20of%20the%20reduced,more%20critical%20for%20healthcare%20workers.
?
No, I do not. I basically do not believe anything they are pushing. Not when they poo pooh things like a zinc and hydroxychloroquine just because they do not like that it did not come from big pharma. But like I said, wear your mask and leave me alone, your mask makes you safe by masker standards,
Quote:No one, literally, believes "it will all be over in a few weeks" . What is known and proved to work in effectively slowing an outbreak like this until better cures and eventually a vaccine is available is not a matter of opinion. It's a scientific fact.
Masks wearing + social distancing + disinfecting = saves lives + alleviates social-economic and health care systems burden to society of having to deal with waves and waves of sick people until mass immunization eventually is available. It's so basic, so commonly known and so easy to understand I really struggle to get people's like you viewpoint...
Really? We were told 300+ days ago we just needed 2-3 weeks of lockdown to "flatten the curve." Then they keep telling you just a little more, just a little more. Why do you still believe what they are telling you? They say "JONES WILL COME BACK" and you listen time after time.
NOTE: If you do not know what "JONES WILL COME BACK" means go read "Animal Farm."
Quote: AZDuffmanNo, I do not. I basically do not believe anything they are pushing. Not when they poo pooh things like a zinc and hydroxychloroquine just because they do not like that it did not come from big pharma. But like I said, wear your mask and leave me alone, your mask makes you safe by masker standards,
Really? We were told 300+ days ago we just needed 2-3 weeks of lockdown to "flatten the curve." Then they keep telling you just a little more, just a little more. Why do you still believe what they are telling you? They say "JONES WILL COME BACK" and you listen time after time.
NOTE: If you do not know what "JONES WILL COME BACK" means go read "Animal Farm."
I seem to recall a group of people saying it will all just go away on its own by Easter and then with summer heat.
I am still waiting on those predictions.
Those were the non-scientists btw.
The ones saying "JONES NEVER LEFT BUT HE IS RIGHT OF CENTER"
Quote: darkozI seem to recall a group of people saying it will all just go away on its own by Easter and then with summer heat.
I am still waiting on those predictions.
Those were the non-scientists btw.
The ones saying "JONES NEVER LEFT BUT HE IS RIGHT OF CENTER"
So you are saying being a scientist or non-scientist is the same on predictions?
Quote: AZDuffmanSo you are saying being a scientist or non-scientist is the same on predictions?
No.
I am saying you didn't listen to scientists. Instead you listened to non-scientists.
And so here we are still suffering
Quote: DeMangoAnd those of us who predicted economic disasters 300 days ago because of lock downs? Don't have a problem with masks and social distancing, but lock downs do nobody any good.
It's like being on a sinking ship and arguing that abandoning the boat doesn't do anyone any economic good.
Quote: darkozNo.
I am saying you didn't listen to scientists. Instead you listened to non-scientists.
And so here we are still suffering
You listened to the scientists and are still suffering. That is my point.
Quote: AZDuffmanYou listened to the scientists and are still suffering. That is my point.
Because the science says the fight against contagion has to be collective. Everyone has to participate. Because it's contagious. You do understand what contagious means. If you got it you can give it to others. So everyone has to participate
So anti-maskers ruin our chances to beat the spread of the disease by not listening to the scientists.
Then have huge balls to say it was the scientists fault
Quote: darkozIt's like being on a sinking ship and arguing that abandoning the boat doesn't do anyone any economic good.
Your reply makes no sense, who would not jump in the lifeboat? That's right ignore the economic mess we are in.
Quote: DeMangoYour reply makes no sense, who would not jump in the lifeboat? That's right ignore the economic mess we are in.
It makes perfect sense.
This virus isn't something you can ignore just like a sinking ship. There is going to be economic damage regardless.
Your argument against closing down is like arguing not to get into lifeboats on a sinking ship
But public health policy is also going disagree with some individuals personal preference. That's the way it's suppose to work. Go along with it or not. BUT DON'T TRY TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. If sewage gets in your drinking water 'cause your neighbor can't follow the law. You want freedom! Why should anyone care?
MAKE ONE CHOICE OR MAKE THE OTHER. But stop pretending we need to cater to any whim you get against current public health policy.
Is that political? I'll take a ban if applicable.
Quote: rxwineIf you don't want any enforceable public health policy just say so. Your neighbor might burn rubber tires in his backyard while you're trying to barbecue and have a picnic. Too bad your steak meat tastes like burned rubber. That's the way freedom works when individuals decide willynilly what is okay for them.
But public health policy is also going disagree with some individuals personal preference. That's the way it's suppose to work. Go along with it or not. BUT DON'T TRY TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. If sewage gets in your drinking water 'cause your neighbor can't follow the law. You want freedom! Why should anyone care?
MAKE ONE CHOICE OR MAKE THE OTHER. But stop pretending we need to cater to any whim you get against current public health policy.
Is that political? I'll take a ban if applicable.
That's not political. That's logical imho
Quote: HunterhillSo what do the anti maskers on here think about wearing seatbelts? Is that being a sheep?
Shhhh, don't tell them. They are already slaves.
"No shoes, no shirts, no service"
Quote: rxwineShhhh, don't tell them. They are already slaves.
"No shoes, no shirts, no service"
And yet I am certain these same anti-maskers will argue AP's are wrong for Breaking Casino rules when doing a play.
And it's the Casinos house. Their house, their rules.
And AP's ruin it for the rest of the recreational gamblers.
Quote: HunterhillSo what do the anti maskers on here think about wearing seatbelts? Is that being a sheep?
Seatbelts are a proven safety measure. Seatbelt laws should be abolished.
No proof masks do anything.
Quote: HunterhillNH still doesn’t have a seatbelt law and also car insurance is not required.
Car insurance is not required in any state.
LIABILITY insurance is, but that is not car insurance.
Quote: AZDuffmanCar insurance is not required in any state.
LIABILITY insurance is, but that is not car insurance.
Ok then,so I should say Liability insurance is not required in NH.
Quote: HunterhillOk then,so I should say Liability insurance is not required in NH.
It de facto is. Insurance or else proof of funds.
So, AZ, you are worried about so many things, many if I analyzed each one individually I might agree with you on. But overall I am happy that our government tries to keep us safe. Do they overreach at times? Sure. I am not looking for perfect. I will remind you I’ve had to wear a mask for around 35 years at work, and retiring made me happy to NOT have to wear one! And BAM, hear we got this pandemic. I’m not sure how much wearing a mask helps; I surmise it is more than you think but less than our elected leaders think.... so just like I think 30mph on certain streets is ridiculous.... but I obey.... I do the same for wearing a mask. Heck, even if the ONLY positive it brought was making my fellow citizens feel safe, it is a price I’m willing to pay to live in our civilized, cushy, easy society.
Quote: SOOPOOSome think the sum total of rules and regulations and taxes and restrictions that IS government is bad. Overall I think it is good. I may grumble about the ‘how’ but I am pretty happy with what my government does for me at all levels. I am generally safe from Jihadists. I am generally safe from Right wing terrorists.
What is missing here? Think about it without going to red!
Proof of funds is not the same as insurance.Quote: AZDuffmanIt de facto is. Insurance or else proof of funds.
Quote: HunterhillProof of funds is not the same as insurance.
It is as it is self-insurance.
Quote: DeMangoWhat is missing here? Think about it without going to red!
Not taking the bait! My point was that I am generally safe from EVERYTHING!!!
It is worse in case of accidents caused by you or other drivers. Considering that you can be sued up to $50,000, it is no wonder that the vast majority of New Hampshire drivers purchase insurance.Quote: HunterhillProof of funds is not the same as insurance.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt is worse in case of accidents caused by you or other drivers. Considering that you can be sued up to $50,000, it is no wonder that the vast majority of New Hampshire drivers purchase insurance.
In Nevada every car must have liability insurance. Stupidly the minimum required is only $15,000.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIt is worse in case of accidents caused by you or other drivers. Considering that you can be sued up to $50,000, it is no wonder that the vast majority of New Hampshire drivers purchase insurance.
I suspect the type of people who don't need the insurance are the type that would buy it anyway.
http://www.capetalk.co.za/articles/386608/covid-19-is-a-vascular-disease-not-a-respiratory-one-taking-aspirin-makes-absolutely-sense?fbclid=IwAR2GGulvu-gccFJoJBei6w1ifHp7BzDyCakmq1wzDX1AUSh72JDvpxESKzE
Quote: jjjoooggg
The man who did my yard work for over 20 years died of covid last week. He was in the hospital on a ventilator for over 3 months, and his blood took on a syrupy consistency. He developed a clot last week and had a massive stroke and died.
I already take aspirin, but if I became infected would probably ask my doctor to go on blood thinners temporarily. (I had to take thinners for a couple years due to a separate issue, so have experience with them).
Quote: rsactuaryThe man who did my yard work for over 20 years died of covid last week. He was in the hospital on a ventilator for over 3 months, and his blood took on a syrupy consistency. He developed a clot last week and had a massive stroke and died.
I already take aspirin, but if I became infected would probably ask my doctor to go on blood thinners temporarily. (I had to take thinners for a couple years due to a separate issue, so have experience with them).
Im sorry to hear that.
Quote: ChumpChangeI thought insurance dropped you if you didn't improve your condition while in the hospital.
That is incredibly illegal.
not able to get vaccinated today as indicated by email from my County and State
they both indicated it would happen today for my age group but that was false
they claim there is a shortage of doses - distribution and supply chain problems
well aware it's not just me but probably millions throughout the U.S. unable to proceed as planned
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Spokeslady for California governor was asked about releasing the California medical statistics that motivated the governor to end the lock-down. She basically replied that they will not be releasing the medical statistics because they don't think the public will understand them.
I guess that the threat of coronavirus must be over, eh? All those states acting in concert to relax the lockdowns. I would love to hear an explanation of this from billryan, darkoz or others.
Quote: gordonm888Governors of NY State, California and Michigan all announcing that they will be ending the state-wide lock down orders even though positive tests/day are at a very high level.
Spokeslady for California governor was asked about releasing the California medical statistics that motivated the governor to end the lock-down. She basically replied that they will not be releasing the medical statistics because they don't think the public will understand them.
I guess that the threat of coronavirus must be over, eh? All those states acting in concert to relax the lockdowns. I would love to hear an explanation of this from billryan, darkoz or others.
Very weird timing to be sure.
Quote: gordonm888
I guess that the threat of coronavirus must be over, eh? All those states acting in concert to relax the lockdowns. I would love to hear an explanation of this from billryan, darkoz or others.
Lockdowns dont work if a part of the population is pro virus by refusing to wear masks, refusing to social distance and attending super spreader events maskless
I was born in Taiwan and have relatives there. Everybody is united against the virus. Nobody pro virus. 7 deaths.
Quote:SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California’s health department on Monday released to the public previously secret projections for future hospital intensive care unit capacity throughout the state, the key metric for lifting the coronavirus stay-at-home order.
https://apnews.com/article/business-sacramento-coronavirus-pandemic-california-gavin-newsom-fc0c15eb5e7359b4bae50602f79a2cfd
