Spanish word of the day
Quote: WizardFor the record, I'm not going to indicate today's SWD in the index on the first page of this thread, since detengar is not a legitimate word, as Nareed made perfectly clear.
There is a group of verbs built around tener which all have similar conjugations. Yo tengo una casa. No tengas mierdo.
Note the relationship with 'tain in English words: attain, contain, detain, entertain, mantain, obtain, pertain, retain, sustain.
- detener: to detain, to arrest, stop. La policía detuvo a once personas. (The police arrested eleven people.)
- abstener, abstenerse: to abstain, to abstain. Mi padre tiene que abstenerse del alcohol. (My father has to abstain from alcohol.)
- atenerse: to observe, to abide by, to heed. Es importante que nos atenemos la ley. (It is important that we obey the law.)
- contener: to contain. La jarra contiene dos litros. (The jug contains two liters.)
-
entretener: to distract, to entertain, to delay, to maintain. Se entretuvieron buscando un coche. (They got distracted looking for a car.) No ha entretenido su coche. (He has not maintained his car.) Se entretenía por tocar el piano. (She entertained herself by playing the piano.)
mantener: to (physically) support, to sustain, to maintain, to remain or keep. Los precios se mantuvieron estables. (Prices remained stable.) Mantenga limpia España. (Keep Spain clean.) Roberto se mantiene con caramelos. (Roberto keeps himself going with candy.) Se ha mantenido como nuevo. (It has been maintained like new.) - obtener: to get, to obtain. Obtuve la firma del actor. (I got the actor's signature.)
- retener: to retain, to hold back, to deduct, to keep. Retenieron el avión presidencial por una deuda. (They held back the presidential plane because of a debt.) Muchas empresas retienen impuestos. (Many businesses deduct taxes.) Retengo en la cabeza todos los lugares que he visto. (I keep in my head every place I have seen.)
- sostener: to hold up, to defend. Los tres bloques sostienen la casa. (The three blocks hold up the house.) No puedo sostener mi opinión. (I can't defend my position.)
Fecha: 17-07-12
Palabra: Disparar
In the Mount Whitney thread there is talk about what kind of firearm would be best for shooting bears. In that spirit, today's SWD is disparar, which seems to primarily mean to shoot or fire.
The question for the advanced readers is to comment on the relationship between parar, which means to stop, and disparar, which perhaps could be interpreted as stopping somebody or something by shooting it.
Ejemplo time.
trató de disparar el oso con mi rifle de 22 calibre, pero sólo lo hizo más enfadado. = I tried to shoot the bear with my 22 caliber rifle, but it only made him more angry.
Here's my co-workers description(she's Mexican).
Disparar=which as you say is to shoot, not necessarily shooting somebody or stopping something by shooting it. Just shoot in general. She even made a gun shape with her hand and said bang!
Parar=which again, as you say is to stop, as in go up three streets, stop(parar) and turn right.
Quote: AlanDisparar=which as you say is to shoot, not necessarily shooting somebody or stopping something by shooting it. Just shoot in general. She even made a gun shape with her hand and said bang!
Parar=which again, as you say is to stop, as in go up three streets, stop(parar) and turn right.
Thanks Alan to you and your co-worker. I assume that both "shoot" and disparar don't necessarily mean to shoot a gun, but shoot anything, like a rubber band.
Regarding parar, as I recall the stop signs in Argentina said para, but in Mexico they also alto, but I could have that backwards.
Trivialidades time!
A big off topic, but on the topic of stop signs, where is the only place (as far as I know) in French-speaking Quebec to use stop signs in English, and why?
Quote: WizardThe question for the advanced readers is to comment on the relationship between parar, which means to stop, and disparar, which perhaps could be interpreted as stopping somebody or something by shooting it.
Not as far as I know.
Quote:trató de disparar el oso con mi rifle de 22 calibre, pero sólo lo hizo más enfadado. = I tried to shoot the bear with my 22 caliber rifle, but it only made him more angry.
"He/She/It tried to shoot to the bear with my rifle of 22 caliber, but he/she/it only made it more angry."
"TratÉ de dispararle AL oso con mi rifle calibre 22, pero ESTO solo lo hizo enojar mas."
BTW I think it's hard to hurt a fly with a .22, but I have a feeling I may be exaggerating a bit ;)
I'll try to foresall a question. If you say "traté de disparar al oso," it means you tried to shoot the bear as if it were amunition. That is you tried to put it in a gun and shoot it, which is utterly ridiculous. Therefore "traté de dispararLE AL oso," meaning you tried to shoot something, pressumably a bullet, at the bear.
Quote: AlanWiz,
Here's my co-workers description(she's Mexican).
Disparar=which as you say is to shoot, not necessarily shooting somebody or stopping something by shooting it. Just shoot in general. She even made a gun shape with her hand and said bang!
Parar=which again, as you say is to stop, as in go up three streets, stop(parar) and turn right.
Alto from Latin means "high", but it is also a word derived from the German "halt". So on a STOP sign it obviously means "halt", but in most cases it means "tall" or "high".
Set aside the Latin roots for now of "parar" and "disparar".
I am confused between the word tirar and disparar. The dictionary lists "tirar" as having multiple meanings including "to throw", "to throw out ", "to knock over", "to manage", "to fornicate (in Spain)", but it also means "to shoot". In what cases would it be proper to use "tirar" vs "disparar" when talking about shooting a gun?
It's fairly common to see the word indicating what to do with trash, but it is also used in talking about guns.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tirar
Quote: pacomartinAlto from Latin means "high", but it is also a word derived from the German "halt". So on a STOP sign it obviously means "halt", but in most cases it means "tall" or "high".
I never stopped to think about it. I guess I assumed that there was a verb altar that meant stop. That would be high right, there is such a verb, but it means to elevate.
Any takers on my trivia question?
Quote: pacomartinAlto from Latin means "high", but it is also a word derived from the German "halt". So on a STOP sign it obviously means "halt",
It means "stop." A red traffic light is called "alto," too (the green is known as "siga," wchich literally means "follow").
Quote:I am confused between the word tirar and disparar. The dictionary lists "tirar" as having multiple meanings including "to throw", "to throw out ", "to knock over", "to manage", "to fornicate (in Spain)", but it also means "to shoot".
"Tirar" also means "to pull." So the action of pulling the trigger which actually shoots the weapon is where "tirar=disparar" comes from.
Quote: WizardA big off topic, but on the topic of stop signs, where is the only place (as far as I know) in French-speaking Quebec to use stop signs in English, and why?
I have read that arrêt is actually "stop" as in a stopping place (like a bus stop), and so it is actually poor French. In France the signs say STOP.
The International Civil Aviation Organisation has decreed that from 1 January 2008 all Air Traffic Controllers and Flight Crew Members engaged in or in contact with international flights must be proficient in the English language as a general spoken medium and not simply have a proficiency in standard ICAO Radio Telephony Phraseology.
So my guess to the answer to your trivia question is the airport. If not, I would guess West Island, Quebec, where English is dominant.
Quote: WizardI never stopped to think about it. I guess I assumed that there was a verb altar that meant stop.
Bad, bad habit :)
One thing I do remember from Yiddish classes at school, is a teacher adamantly reminding everyone that just adding the phoneme "irn" to a Spanish verb did not turn it magically into Yiddish.
In Spanish very few nouns forma verb, and few nouns are identical to a related verb. For example, the verb "morir," meaning "to die" is similar to the noun "muerto," meaning "dead person/animal/man" (it depends ont he context. but if you were to take "muerto" and turn into a verb you'd end up with "muertar," which simply does not exist.
Quote: WizardI never stopped to think about it. I guess I assumed that there was a verb altar that meant stop. That would be high right, there is such a verb, but it means to elevate.
Two things:
(1) Not every adjective has a matching verb. Alto and Alta are adjectives, but there is no verb altar that means "to elevate". There is a noun "altar" , which has the same meaning as it does in English.
(2) The subjunctive/imperative is going to be the death of you. Theoretically, if there was a verb "altar" that meant "to stop", in the positive imperative the command would be ALTA, not ALTO. So signs would say ALTA.
Although, to be fair, you don't automatically think of a Spanish word being of Germanic origin. So the word coming from "Halt" is a stretch. By far the most common Spanish word of Germanic origin is hola which comes from German hallo and is obviously a cognate with English hello.
Also keep in mind that the Visigoths conquered Spain before the Arabs did. The city of Toledo is the Visigothic capital.
Other Spanish words that are Germanic include:
guerra
balcón
bandera
bandido
bebé
blanco; blanca
bloque; bloquear
busca; buscar
chocar
club
folclore
fresco
fútbol, futbol
ganar
garaje
grabar
grupo
guía
hola
jardin
lapiz
lotería
marchar
mascota
norte
oeste
orgullo
queso
ratón
robar
rojo(a)
ropa
salón
sopa
tapa
tarjeta
toalla
trampa
trombón
vagón
Regarding the stop sign question, the answer is the Kahnawake territory across the Saint Laurence River from Montreal. If you make a bet on Bovada, the outcome will be determined on a computer server there. I've personally toured the building and the Bovada offices nearby. There you will see stop signs in English and many more American flags than Canadian. Why? The Kahnawakes have had a bad relationship with Canada for decades and many have moved to the United States. Here is where I get fuzzy, but for whatever reason, most of them just like the U.S. better than Canada, and hang the U.S. flag, and use English, as a form of protest. Canadians, being rather passive, don't seem to really care.
Fecha: 07-18-12
Palabra: víspera
Today's SWD means eve or the day before. There is this same problem in English with the word "eve." To this day, I don't understand if "Christmas eve" is the night of December 24, or the entire 24-hour day of December 24. My interpretation is that it means just the night before Christmas. It wouldn't seem right to say "It is Christmas eve" at 8:00 AM on December 24. So, I welcome elaboration on what víspera means, and maybe it will help my English as well.
Ejemplo time.
Estas el Era la víspera de Navidad, y en todo las casa
Ninguna criatura era moviena, ni siquiera un ratón =
Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
Quote: WizardEstas el víspera de Navidad, y en todo las casa
Ninguna criatura era moviena, ni siquiera un ratón =
Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
Era la víspera de Navidad, y todo en la casa era paz.
No se oía ni un ruidito, ni siquiera chillar a un ratón.
Although the above translation is not literal, you should not use "Estas" for "it was" . You should use "Era" (past imperfect of "ser").
It was the night before ..
Era la noche anterior ..
When this poem was written in 1822, the Englishman made a deliberate reference to the opening lines of a Shakespearean play written below. Without googling, can you name the play?
Quote: Shakespearian PlayBERNARDO: Who's there?
FRANCISCO: Nay, answer me: stand, and unfold yourself.
BERNARDO: Long live the king!
FRANCISCO: Bernardo?
BERNARDO: He.
FRANCISCO: You come most carefully upon your hour.
BERNARDO: 'Tis now struck twelve; get thee to bed, Francisco.
FRANCISCO: For this relief much thanks: 'tis bitter cold, And I am sick at heart.
BERNARDO: Have you had quiet guard?
FRANCISCO: Not a mouse stirring.
Quote: pacomartin
When this poem was written in 1822, the Englishman....
hey, wait a minute!
clement clarke moore, born 1779, elmhurst, queens, new york
first published anonymously in the Troy, New York, Sentinel on December 23, 1823...
there is some controversy that it may have been written by henry livingston,
who was born in 1748, in troy, new york
Quote: WongBohey, wait a minute!
My apologies. I thought he was English, and I didn't check. In 1807 and 1811 in America, the Family Shakespeare was published by Thomas Bowdler. For most of the 19th century nearly every child in America grew up reading that book. From Thomas's surname the eponym bowdlerize developed because Thomas and his sister expurgated the naughty bits of Shakespeare.
In any case, if you were talking to a child in 1822, he probably grew up having the FS read to him.
Quote: WizardIf I may change the topic, I came across the word rota as a translation of "broke," as in to have no money. According to Reverso, romper has no such usage as to be out of money. Is Reverso wrong, or did the translator perhaps not understand that "broke" can mean to be out of money, and assumed it meant to be broken, as in not working.
I think it is correct to say that romper, (past participle roto), and the adjective roto/rota never mean to be out of money. The translation is broke, and also torn, smashed, broken down, split, and broke as in "she broke out laughing".
In English "broke" means to "shatter, burst; injure, violate, destroy". Also ideas like "break into" and "break out" as well as "breaking in a horse" are all ancient. Even the concept of "breaking bread" is almost 700 years old. However, the English definition of "financially insolvent" is a much later meaning only added in the 18th century.
Fecha: 19-07-12
Palabra: guateque
Today's SWD means party. Every gringo already knows that fiesta also means party. What is the difference? I think that fiesta is the more common and general term. A guateque would probably be something that teenagers have, that is probably going to be a bit on the rowdy and loud side. Of course, I always welcome correction, especially when it comes to my Spanish.
The question for the advanced readers is what does the root "guat" mean? In particular, what does it mean in "Guatemala"?
Ejemplo time.
Nunca me invitó a los guateques de los chicos populares. = I never get invited to the cool kid parties.
Note that I used the ó in invitó to imply that I'm the one (not) being invited. I would have used é if I was the one doing the inviting. Of course, I'm sure I still blew it somehow.
Quote: WizardToday's SWD means party. Every gringo already knows that fiesta also means party. What is the difference? I think that fiesta is the more common and general term. A guateque would probably be something that teenagers have.
The DRAE says the word is associated with young people, and is Caribbean in origin. I am not sure if it is a current word, or is more like "groovy".
As usual when I reply to this thread I had to ask my co-worker...'cuz I don't know Spanish.
She said there was no difference between fiesta and your SWD. I even tried to coax a difference out of her using your 'loud and rowdy' description, but she wouldn't buy it. Just another name for 'party' according to her.
Quote: WizardWhat is the difference? I think that fiesta is the more common and general term. A guateque would probably be something that teenagers have, that is probably going to be a bit on the rowdy and loud side.
You shuold find out in what part of the world that word is used, then avoid it like the plague. Seriously, I've never heard that word before.
Quote:Nunca me invitó a los guateques de los chicos populares. = I never get invited to the cool kid parties.
Note that I used the ó in invitó to imply that I'm the one (not) being invited. I would have used é if I was the one doing the inviting. Of course, I'm sure I still blew it somehow.
Yes, you did. You're complainign that one person never invited you to the parties thrown by the popular boys.
Quote: NareedYou shuold find out in what part of the world that word is used, then avoid it like the plague. Seriously, I've never heard that word before.
I though it was Mexican Spanish. I'll have to ask around. Is there something you don't like about the word?
Update: We're in luck. I'm having my palm trees trimmed today and of course the crew is all Spanish-speaking. The young guy of the bunch seemed to know the most about it. He seemed to say it was more informal than a fiesta and often done with little planning. I asked him what parts of the Spanish-speaking world use the word. All he could say is that he is from Colima and they use it there. Then the jefe chimed in and said he thought it was more likely to be heard in southern Mexico. So, if they are right, I think you may owe your fellow citizens to the south a disculpa.
Quote:You're complainign that one person never invited you to the parties thrown by the popular boys.
What if just the most popular boy is the one doing the inviting? I think that is how it works with the cool kids in high school. Of course, I would have no first-hand experience with that, as I was in the bottom of the caste system with the other nerds in the computer room.
Quote: WizardAll he could say is that he is from Colima and they use it there. Then the jefe chimed in and said he thought it was more likely to be heard in southern Mexico. So, if they are right, I think you may owe your fellow citizens to the south a disculpa.
The dictionary says Voz Caribe . But I am not surprised that they use it down south.
Defeños speak a fairly high level of Spanish, for want of a better word. I am not surprised that Nareed wouldn't recognize a regional word. Also if you google the word you get lots of old images from the 50's and 60's.
There are strong regional accents, especially in places that have been very detached. The Spanish on the coast in Oaxaca is mixed with some African rythms, and is very distinct.
Quote: WizardI though it was Mexican Spanish.
[..]
All he could say is that he is from Colima and they use it there.
I'm not sure, but I think Colima is a fly-speck on the map somewhere...
Quote:So, if they are right, I think you may owe your fellow citizens to the south a disculpa.
Once they stop taking my taxes to pay off the teachers unions there, who don't even teach, I might consider an apology. Not to mention they owe an apology to the world for the mere existence of Chilpancingo. If that is not the ugliest city on the face of the Earth, it's not for lack of trying.
Quote:What if just the most popular boy is the one doing the inviting?
Not the point. Your Spanish translation does not mean the same thing as the English sentence you provided.
Quote: NareedI'm not sure, but I think Colima is a fly-speck on the map somewhere...
Good thing there are no forum members from Colima.
Quote:Not the point. Your Spanish translation does not mean the same thing as the English sentence you provided.
It never does.
Quote: NareedI'm not sure, but I think Colima is a fly-speck on the map somewhere...
You know the famous view of the world from 9th avenue
The world view is something New Yorkers and defeños have in common.
it brought back memories of my childhood,
my neighbors (expatriate jews from brooklyn) had this poster in their kitchen.
now that i live in NYC (8th ave). i find that this is exactly
how i conceptualize the rest of the country...
Quote: WongBoi find that this is exactly how i conceptualize the rest of the country...
In the context of what we were discussing, Colima is about the same population of Vermont, and is a tiny state by area with a great big Volcano.
To Nareed, citing someone from Colima about Mexican culture is a lot like us hearing that someone in Arkansas telling a foreigner that some saying was commonplace in America.
what block of 8th avenue?
Quote: WizardIt never does.
Then what's the point of building sentences that are supposed to have specific meanings? Besides, sometimes they do.
What I'm trying now is to point out where the error is and see whether you can correct yoruself from there. I thought you'd advanced enough for that. Perhaps I should have said so.
Quote: pacomartinThe world view is something New Yorkers and defeños have in common.
I resent that. But for three years, I've lived all my life in Mexico State.
Quote: NareedI resent that. But for three years, I've lived all my life in Mexico State.
The Saul Steinberg picture "view from 9th avenue" is one of the best known jokes in the United States. It is supposed to be gentle humor. I hope you really don't take the comment seriously enough to resent it.
At the same time, I never knew what to call people from Mexico City (which covered D.F. and parts of Mexico State). Sometimes I hear them called Mexicans (which is confusing to Americans).
I've heard defeños which I was told was broad enough to cover people who lived in the urban area, regardless of whether they actually lived in D.F. In comparison we say Washingtonians even if they live outside of the formal limits of D.C.
The term chilango I am not comfortable with. It does seem that some people take it as merely descriptive, while others feel like it is an insult. Since I am not sure how it is taken, I don't use it. Plus it reminds me of chicano . I am aware that most people proudly use that term, but I still feel like it as an "insiders" term, that I shouldn't be using. I will say Chicano movement which is very clear, but I usually fall back on Mexican Americans.
Quote: NareedWhat I'm trying now is to point out where the error is and see whether you can correct yoruself from there. I thought you'd advanced enough for that. Perhaps I should have said so.
I did not see that as your intent. Okay, how about Nunca me invitaron a los guateques de los chicos populares.
By the way I saw Susie, my hair stylist, today and she never heard of the word. She is Mexican by race, but born and raised in this country. She admits she speaks Spanglish.
Quote: pacomartinI hope you really don't take the comment seriously enough to resent it.
I hope you can recognize a joke when you see one.
This one should be obvious. First, you assert I share in a provincial or derogatory attitude. Then I counter with how I resent being identified as being from a certain palce, as though that matters in this context, or much in any way at all.
Quote:At the same time, I never knew what to call people from Mexico City (which covered D.F. and parts of Mexico State). Sometimes I hear them called Mexicans (which is confusing to Americans).
Who cares? Overall it shouldn't be important at all. It's not as if where you were born matters much. Regional designations are useful almost only for telling regional jokes.
Quote: WizardEjemplo time.
Nunca me invitó a los guateques de los chicos populares. = I never get invited to the cool kid parties.
Note that I used the ó in invitó to imply that I'm the one (not) being invited. I would have used é if I was the one doing the inviting. Of course, I'm sure I still blew it somehow.
Los chicos populares nunca me invitan a guateques.
Quote: WizardI did not see that as your intent. Okay, how about Nunca me invitaron a los guateques de los chicos populares.
Perfect. Now ask yourself why you got it wrong int he first place. That's an exercise my English teacher had me do.
Also ask yourself how often you'll have the opportunity to refer to a party in Colima.
Quote: NareedNow ask yourself why you got it wrong int he first place.
I conjugated invitar in the él/ella/ud. form because I had in my mind just one person doing the inviting. However, it would seem that it should match chicos populares, and use conjugated in the ellos/ellas/Uds ending.
Quote:Also ask yourself how often you'll have the opportunity to refer to a party in Colima.
I usually have a Spanish lesson before my radio show, meaning today. My tutor, from Peru, had never heard of guateque. However, by chance, her boss, was there who is from Spain and proudly claims to speak correct pure Spanish Spanish. I asked her about it and she said that guateque does in indeed mean party, but it is an antiquated word she hasn't heard since the seventies in Spain. Maybe it is making a comeback.
I feel we've beaten that word to death, so if you'll permit me the last word, no reply necessary on that.
Quote: WizardI feel we've beaten that word to death, so if you'll permit me the last word, no reply necessary on that.
Oh, but if I let you have the last word you may get used to it. ;)
Palabra: retrasar
Today's SWD means to postpone, to be late, to fall behind, etc..
The question for the advanced readers is to compare and contrast retrasar, aplazar, posponer y postergar. How many words for procrastinating does one language need?
Ejemplo time.
Nunca hace hoy lo que se puede retrasar hasta mañana. = Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow.
I think you can tell the difference, generally, whether mañana means tomorrow or morning is that the "morning" meaning is preceded by la.
Quote: WizardHow many words for procrastinating does one language need?
considering it's a culture that routinely eats dinner at 10 pm i would say 4 or 5 should be enough :)
Quote: WizardHow many words for procrastinating does one language need?
I think 6 is about right.
atrasar
retardar
retrasar
aplazar
posponer
postergar
Quote: WizardToday's SWD means to postpone, to be late, to fall behind, etc..
Not quite. It means to delay.
Quote:The question for the advanced readers is to compare and contrast retrasar, aplazar, posponer y postergar.
Delay, continue (as in continuance), postpone and defer.
Quote:Nunca hace hoy lo que se puede retrasar hasta mañana. = Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow.
That expression isn't known in Spanish, nor is it used. I'll spot yuo the original and you try to correct this one: Nunca dejes para mañana lo que puedes hacer hoy.
Quote: DocGee, I thought the expression was, "Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid completely."
No, no. It's "Never do at all what you can get other people to do for you." :)
Quote: NareedNunca dejes para mañana lo que puedes hacer hoy.
I would have gone with por.
A bit off topic, but my philosophy when it comes to most things is "If you want a job done right, then get somebody else to do it."
Quote: WizardA bit off topic, but my philosophy when it comes to most things is "If you want a job done right, then get somebody else to do it."
I bet somehow that didn't come up at your last job interview ;)
Quote: NareedI bet somehow that didn't come up at your last job interview ;)
I conveniently forgot to mention it.
Quote: WongBoconsidering it's a culture that routinely eats dinner at 10 pm i would say 4 or 5 should be enough :)
You get another feather for making me laugh. Fortunatley, nobody seems offended.
