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pacomartin
pacomartin
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September 9th, 2011 at 11:13:40 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I don't read the Bible, nor have I ever read it in Spanish that I can recall, bt I've heard that verse used as "¡Hágase la luz!" more or less "let light be made," or "let light come to be."

But then that's part of the punchline of a well-known quick joke.



The phrase ¡Hágase la luz! is not normally used to translate Let there be light but is normally used in to translate another famous verse translated in King James as:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

It is a phrase written in Greek that was written hundreds of years later, but is referencing the earlier phrase that was written in Hebrew.

Quote: Nareed

Of all that all I can easily udnerstand is that"quixotic" is not used in Spanish. The word "Quijotesco" does exist and would be understood, but it means something realted to the style affected by Cervantes, not to undertake an impossible quest.

In fact, the English expression, I suspect, might have come from the play "The Man of La Mancha" and the song about the impossible dream.

BTW where does Shakespearan rank as a word derived from a persons' name?



I am sorry, the word is quixotic in English. It does mean to act in the manner of Don Quixote. You are correct that very few English speakers have read Cervantes even in translation, but most people are familiar with the story or the musical version.

Shakesperian is an adjective, but it isn't very descriptive of any one characteristic. It may simply mean that someone is using high language.

Chauvinism, in its original and primary meaning, is an exaggerated, bellicose patriotism and a belief in national superiority and glory and was named for fictional French soldier Nicolas Chauvin. In the 1960's the word was coupled with male to form male chauvinism to refer to men who believe in the natural superiority of men over women. Because it has been used in this context only for decades, most people associate it with male superiority.
Nareed
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September 9th, 2011 at 5:00:55 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

My questions to Nareed are: (1) how do you say "eponym" in Spanish?; (2) Is some variation of contrepèterie used in Spansih for wordplay?; (3) What are some eponyms that would be well known in Spanish (besides quixotic) that English speakers wouldn't understand?



Ok. Having re-read the post in a more leisurely fashion, I think I can answer now:

1) no idea.
2) no idea
3) I already asnwered it.

On 2, Spanish wordplay is even sillier and more contrived than it is in English. And anturally 99.999999....9% of the time it cannot be translated successfuly. A typical pun goes like this: someone says, "me siento mal." someone else answers "pues siéntate bien." The translation is "I feel poorly." and the answer "so sit up straight." See?

Just the same, there's an Argentine commedy/musical group called Les Luthiers, whom I may have mentioned a time or twenty eight, who do use a lot of word play in their routines. Typically there's a narrative or dialog to set up a song. One such, concerning mythical composer Johan Sebastian Mastropiero's quest to compose music for movies, carried this narration:

"Mastropiero made a good impression on Skinny Walrus [that's the actual name used], the head of one ofthe biggest studios. Skinny Walrus was the CEO of Walrus Bros. He commisioned Mastropiero to write the score for the latest production by celebrated director Ralph Smith: 'The Abominable Beast'... the director, that is. The film was called "The Mysterious Murderer."

Stuff like that. Their best works do rely on word play and are completely untranslatable.

Some of their commedy relies on massive exaggeration. there's one bit called "El Vals Del Segundo." IT tells the sotry, for over 20 minutes, of how Mastropiero, along with his students, researched through mounds of musical history to compose a piece called "The Waltz of the Second." At the end they play the peice, which lasts exactly one second.

Oh, well, i could go on and on (and on and on) about them and get not even a mild chuckle from any of you. I'll just say their website says they once played a show in NYC in English (they habitually do a little bilingual commedy in some pieces). I would love to track it down.
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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September 10th, 2011 at 11:19:24 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

sh wordplay is even sillier and more contrived than it is in English. And anturally 99.999999....9% of the time it cannot be translated successfuly. A typical pun goes like this: someone says, "me siento mal." someone else answers "pues siéntate bien." The translation is "I feel poorly." and the answer "so sit up straight." See?



Ronnie Barker built an entire career about mispronunciation. Many of the references are very British and I don't get them.

Les filles aiment le tennis en pension is apparently very common joke in French, but even with an online translator I have no idea why it is funny.

Your Spanish joke reminds me of a classic vaudeville joke.
Wizard
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September 11th, 2011 at 8:24:00 PM permalink
Fecha: Sep. 12, 2011
Palabra del dia: solitario


Today's word, solitario=lonely. This is an easy one, as you would guess solitario would mean solitary, which would likely cause feelings of lonliness. I'm sure Paco can help with the etymology of "sol," but my guess would be related to the number one.

Ejemplo time.

Uno es el numero mas solitario. = One is the lonliest number.
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Nareed
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September 11th, 2011 at 8:44:07 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's word, solitario=lonely. This is an easy one, as you would guess solitario would mean solitary, which would likely cause feelings of lonliness.



I'm surprised you didn't say it's also the Spanish word for "solitaire." But then that's not a casino game ;)
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pacomartin
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September 11th, 2011 at 8:58:41 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm sure Paco can help with the etymology of "sol," but my guess would be related to the number one.



I think sol has always meant sun.

But se is Latin for "himself". The word solus is latin for "alone".

==============
The word has an idiomatic suffix:
The word solitude translates as la soledad, the only other similar translation I can find is that vastitude translates as vastedad. Vastitude is a rare English word that means immensity.


But it is much more common to translate the "ude" suffix differently

English aptitude is Spanish aptitud
English amplitude is Spanish amplitud
English attitude is Spanish actitud *
English allude is Spanish alluden
etc.

* Spanish has only 3 double-letter combinations "cc, ll, and rr" whereas in English we double many letters. So "attitude" becomes "actitud" where the ""tt" becomes "ct", and the final letter "e" is dropped.

The "dad" ending in Spanish is much more common as a translation for the "ty" suffix in English.
So English cruelty becomes Spanish crueldad
English constitucionality becomes Spanish constitucionalidad

It is almost as if the word solity was missing from the English language. The literal translation for English "solitude" is "the solity" in Spanish.

Here is a list of common English words the end in "ude". Only solitude is translated with the "dad" ending.
English Spanish
altitude altitud
amplitude amplitud
aptitude aptitud
gratitude gratitud
ineptitude ineptitud
ingratitude ingratitud
latitude latitud
magnitude magnitud
attitude actitud
vicissitude vicisitud
laude laude (straight from Latin)
allude aludir
elude eludir
exclude excluir
extrude extrudir
exude exudar
include incluir
preclude evitar
protrude sobresalir
delude engañar
intrude entrometerse
obtrude entrometerse
collude confabularse
crude crudo
nude desnudo
rude grosero
prude mojigato
dude amigo
interlude interludio
prelude preludio
fortitude fortaleza
platitude lugar común
solitude soledad
Nareed
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September 13th, 2011 at 8:12:14 PM permalink
I have the energy for a qiuck one. So let's relate it to my day:

Fecha 13 de Septeimbre de 2011
Palabra del día: Desperdicio.

Simply put it means waste. It may also mean trash or refuse. Related verb is "Desperdiciar"

Ejemplo:

Desperdicié medio día en una junta con gente del gobierno = I wasted half the day in a meeting with government people.
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Wizard
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September 13th, 2011 at 8:19:47 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Fecha 13 de Septeimbre de 2011
Palabra del día: Desperdicio



Thanks. I think that is one of my 2,000 flash card vocabulary words. Whenever it comes up I usually incorrectly guess "desperate."

Here we always use basura for trash. For meeting I thought the word was reunion, which is a false cognate/friend.
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Nareed
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September 13th, 2011 at 8:32:49 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. I think that is one of my 2,000 flash card vocabulary words. Whenever it comes up I usually incorrectly guess "desperate."



My brother, who's almost as fluent as I am in English, sometimes still mistakes "after" for "before," because he says it sounds to him like "antes," which is Spanish for "before"

Quote:

For meeting I thought the word was reunion, which is a false cognate/friend.



I still don't quite get that. In any case they're almost synonymous. "Reunión" is used mostly to refer to a social gathering. But if you said "Estuve reunida con gente del gobierno," you are indeed correctly stating that "I was in a meeting with government people."
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pacomartin
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September 13th, 2011 at 10:28:20 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. I think that is one of my 2,000 flash card vocabulary words. Whenever it comes up I usually incorrectly guess "desperate."

Here we always use basura for trash. For meeting I thought the word was reunion, which is a false cognate/friend.



The two words come from different Latin words that are close in spelling.

Late Latin word perdere (ruin, destroy; lose)
Latin word disperdere (ruin utterly;destroy,)
related Latin word (disperditio)
Spanish words desperdiciar (infinitive form) desperdiciado, and desperdicio
English words (doesn't seem that there are any cognates)
RAE desperdiciar.
(Del lat. disperditĭo, de disperdĕre, consumir, derrochar).
1. tr. Malbaratar, gastar o emplear mal algo. Desperdiciar el dinero, la comida.
2. tr. desaprovechar (‖ dejar pasar una oportunidad). Desperdiciar la ocasión, el tiempo.


Late Latin prefix de-
Latin word de (away; down)
Latin word sperare (hope for; trust; look forward to)
Latin word desperare (despair; have no trust, give up hope)
Latin word desperatus (related form)
English word desperate
Spanish word desesperado

desesperado, da.
1. adj. Dominado por la desesperación. U. t. c. s.
2. adj. Extremo, forzoso, causado por la desesperación. Una decisión desesperada.
3. adj. Que no tiene remedio o no permite concebir esperanzas. Un caso desesperado.
a la desesperado
1. loc. adv. Acudiendo a remedios extremos para lograr lo que no parece posible de otro modo.



Prefixes
dis-
a Latin prefix meaning “apart,” “asunder,” “away,” “utterly,” or having a privative, negative, or reversing force
des-
the usual form of Latin dis- in Spanish.

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