Spanish word of the day
Quote: WizardThe communist liberators knocked down the capitalist oppressors in the war.
Ok, political considerations aside, I think the term "knocked down" is wrong in this context. In any case, in Spanish the verb you'd want would be "derrocar," which means "to overthrow"
Quote:When she dumped me she knocked down all my self confidence.
This one is still problematic. In Spanish I would say "Cuando me dejó me quitó toda mi confianza en mi mismo" but even that is a poor translation.
Quote: WizardFecha: 12 de Abril, 2012
Palabra: Rentabilizar
Today's SWD means to cash in on, or make more profitable.
A question for the advanced readers is how does rentabilizar differ from aprovechar. I think that aprovechar is more common and probably a safer choice for most situations. Based on very little information, its seems rentabilizar might be better for taking advantage of somebody else's situation. My degree of confidence on that is very low.
Ejemplo time.
Doné mucho dinero a su campaña, así despues El ganó la elección intenté rentabilizar el favor. = I donated a lot of money to his campaign, so after he wins I intend to cash in on the favor.
rentable is an adjective with the same definition in English or Spanish (different pronunciations) - "that is fit be rented"
renta in Spanish is a little broader than the English definition. English is pretty much combined to leasing property, including real estate, cars or tools. In Spanish it could mean the same as English, but it also could mean "aumento de la riqueza de una persona", or the increasing riches of a person.
rentabilizar is a Spanish transitive verb which has the base meaning of making something more rentable. But it is referring to the broader definition of "rent".
While "rentabilizer" is only a transitive verb, "approvechar" could be transitive, intranstive or reflexive.
As a transitive verb it includes the meaning of "rentabilizer" plus the idea of proteger & favorecer; "to protect" and "to promote".
As an intransitive verb a definition is "Adelantar en virtud, estudios, artes, etc." or to increase in virtue, studies, arts, etc.
As a reflexive verb it means to "exploit your position"
Quote: NareedQuote: WizardWhen she dumped me she knocked down all my self confidence.
This one is still problematic. In Spanish I would say "Cuando me dejó me quitó toda mi confianza en mi mismo" but even that is a poor translation.
I would say that it is a somewhat unusual phrase in English as well. I think one of these sentences is more likely.
"When she dumped me she took away all my self confidence."
"When she dumped me she took my self confidence."
"When she dumped me she stole my self confidence."
"When she dumped me I lost my self confidence."
"When she dumped me, my self esteem was knocked down."
Quote: Nareedin Spanish the verb you'd want would be "derrocar," which means "to overthrow"
I thought echar abajo meant to overthrow. It is on one of my flash cards. I happen to remember because it was in my rotation yesterday at the gimnasio.
Quote: pacomartinrenta in Spanish is a little broader than the English definition. English is pretty much combined to leasing property, including real estate, cars or tools. In Spanish it could mean the same as English, but it also could mean "aumento de la riqueza de una persona", or the increasing riches of a person.
I thought the word for rent in Spanish was alquilar. Not to be confused with prestar, which means to borrow (without having to pay).
Quote: WizardI thought the word for rent in Spanish was alquilar. Not to be confused with prestar, which means to borrow (without having to pay)
Quote: DRAErentar.
1. tr. Dicho de una cosa: Producir o rendir beneficio o utilidad anualmente.
alquilar. (De alquilé).
1. tr. Dar a alguien algo, especialmente una finca urbana, un animal o un mueble, para que use de ello por el tiempo que se determine y mediante el pago de la cantidad convenida.
2. tr. Tomar de alguien algo para este fin y con tal condición.
3. prnl. Dicho de una persona: Ponerse a servir a otra por cierto estipendio.
I am not sure that I understand the subtle differences.
Quote: WizardI thought echar abajo meant to overthrow. It is on one of my flash cards. I happen to remember because it was in my rotation yesterday at the gimnasio.
You can use both, but "derrocar" is the more common.
Quote:I thought the word for rent in Spanish was alquilar. Not to be confused with prestar, which means to borrow (without having to pay).
Rent as a noun, "renta," means the money paid monthly for rent with or without a lease, but it also mens income. no one uses "renta" to mean income frequently, except the tax collection agency, which calls the income tax "impuesto sobre la renta."
As a verb, "rentar," means to rent or to lease. "Alquilar" means the same thing.
"Prestar" means both to lend and to borrow. It does imply the thing or money borrowed will be given or paid back. A bank loan is also called "prestamo" and you'd better pay it back ;)
Palabra: Largar
Today's SWD is a tough one. Much like echar, there seem to be a whole host of usages. They mostly seem to be negative in nature. Such as a forceful leave (as in "get out of here"), be beat up, to hand over, to release (something bad). In the context I found the word it was a translation of "go away."
I should probably leave the advanced readers to explain it better.
Ejemplo time.
Ella siempre me largó su trabjo sucio, y yo siempre lo hico, porque ella esta bonita. = She always gives me her dirty work, and I always do it because she is pretty.
Quote: WizardFecha: 13 de Abril, 2012 Palabra: Largar
There isn't a verb in English with the exact same meaning. Probably the closest would be to set something "at large" where "at large" is the English idiom that is used rarely.
- At noon, the day after the robbery, the thieves were still at large.
- Truck drivers at large don't like the new speed restriction on the highway.
-
He ran for representative at large.
I have only ever heard the third use when discussing the United States House of Representatives, and the 7 states with a single "at large" congressional district.
In Spanish you can use the verb "largar" reflexively, where it literally means "I set myself at large", but you might be translating "I beat it out of here".
The colloquial use is to "let go a slap".
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You misspelled "trabajo" in your translation, and the word "hico" is a cord in a hammock. Present indicative of "hacer" is "hago", and past preterite is "hice".
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BTW: In English "large" is a Latin word, and "long" is an Anglo Saxon word. In Spanish the adjective "largo" primarily is the same as English "large" , but it also includes some of the meanings of the English word "length"
Sofia Vergara did a funny routine about this animal (which she can't remember it's English name). What is the name in Spanish?
Quote: pacomartin
Sofia Vergara did a funny routine about this animal (which she can't remember it's English name). What is the name in Spanish?
That looks like an English red squirrel. According to the dictionary the word for squirrel is ardilla, which also the word for other large rodents like chipmunks and gophers.
I saw something on TV about how American grey squirrels somehow made it to the UK, and are crowding out the reds.
Quote: WizardI should probably leave the advanced readers to explain it better.
I'll go by usage, which in the end is most useful.
Any Mexican understands the command "lárgate," as meaning "go away." Few would know there si an infinitive form of the verb. It's just out of mind, so most people don't even think of it.
So, as I said, it's used for telling people forcefully to go away. It's also applied to the speaker who's leaving or has left some place, for example you could say "me largo" at the office when you're leaving. It's not formal Spanish, but it's used that way.
It's seldom used to describe what a third person did. You can say "y entonces se largó de ahí," but you won't encoutner that often.
And while the dictionary gives it mroe definitions, it's used exclusively as meaning "to leave" or "to go away."
So:
Quote:Ella siempre me largó su trabjo sucio, y yo siempre lo hico, porque ella esta bonita. = She always gives me her dirty work, and I always do it because she is pretty.
I'll just go with a straight correction: "Ella siempre me dejaba su trabajo sucio, y yo siempre lo hicE porque ella es bonita."
I know you ahve trouble with "ser" y "estar." This case gives me a good contrast.
Ella es bonita = She's pretty
Ella está bonita = She's being pretty
And let's leave it at that.
Quote: pacomartinBTW: In English "large" is a Latin word, and "long" is an Anglo Saxon word. In Spanish the adjective "largo" primarily is the same as English "large" , but it also includes some of the meanings of the English word "length"
In Spanish "largo" means "long."
Example, "Hay un largo camino por recorrer" = "There's a long road yet to travel."
You may recall the character Lurch from The Addam's Family. In Spanish he was named "Largo" becasue he was very tall.
The Spanish term for "large" is "grande." It also means big. But when ordering a large soda, for instance, you ask for "un refresco grande." When confrotned with a large task, you're facing "un gran trabajo." And so on.
Quote: NareedElla es bonita = She's pretty
Ella está bonita = She's being pretty
Thanks. I'm not questioning that, but I went with estar because I thought that "Ella es bonita" would mean she is permanently pretty. What if she is 19 now. She may not look as good when you reverse the digits and she is 91.
Quote: WizardThanks. I'm not questioning that, but I went with estar because I thought that "Ella es bonita" would mean she is permanently pretty. What if she is 19 now. She may not look as good when you reverse the digits and she is 91.
It depends, how old do you plan to be then? :)
Quote: NareedIt depends, how old do you plan to be then? :)
So, I'll be 118 when she turns 91, which I suppose she will still be a perky young lass, by comparison to me at least.
Quote: WizardSo, I'll be 118 when she turns 91, which I suppose she will still be a perky young lass, by comparison to me at least.
So, let's revisit the question in your 115th birthday (don't forget!)
Quote: WizardThanks. I'm not questioning that, but I went with estar because I thought that "Ella es bonita" would mean she is permanently pretty. What if she is 19 now. She may not look as good when you reverse the digits and she is 91.
I know I've written this comment a bunch of times before, but the traditional way of teaching ser/estar as permanent/transitory state can be misleading. Ser is associated with "essential, essence", and estar with "state, stage, and station".
You don't mean to say she is "being pretty" by the way she is acting or with her dance routine. You mean that she is essentially a pretty girl. But "essential" is not the same as permanent. She may or not be pretty after decades of hard living.
In the same way you want to use "ser" if you are saying someone is a teacher, student, businessman, or politician. These professions are not permanent.
Palabra: Párvulo/a
Today's SWD means a child, especially a young one, perhaps even "infant." I'm not exactly sure what age range it is supposed to refer to.
The question for the advanced readers is to compare and contrast párvulo to niño, chico and infante.
Ejemplo time.
Mi profesión es que agarrar los párvulos en un campo de centeno. = My occupation is to catch children in a field of rye.
Quote: WizardThe question for the advanced readers is to compare and contrast párvulo to niño, chico and infante.
Oh, it's simple. People actually use the words "niño," "chico" and "infante." "Párvulo" is a kind of highfalutin word.
Quote:Mi profesión es que agarrar los párvulos en un campo de centeno. = My occupation is to catch children in a field of rye.
"My profession is what to grab children...." :)
I think you're using some kind of allusion, because catching children on a field of rye doesn't make much sense to me. Anyway:
"Mi ocupación es atrapar a los párvulos...."
Quote: NareedI think you're using some kind of allusion, because catching children on a field of rye doesn't make much sense to me.
"Mi ocupación es atrapar a los párvulos...."
The novel is a famous post WWII work that most of us read in school. It's a little highfalutin so "párvulos" might be appropriate. The character in the novel says he got the title from a folk tune.
The title is usually translated as Guardian Entre El Centeno
Quote: pacomartinThe novel is a famous post WWII work that most of us read in school.
Indeed. Most consider it to be one of the best works of American literature. Certainly one of the most famous, especially in the 20th century. It is the quintessential story of teenage angst. My daughter had to read it in 8th grade.
Quote: WizardMy daughter had to read it in 8th grade.
An English teacher friend always complained that Catcher in the Rye and Huckleberry Finn were both novels written for adults, yet they are always read today by children. The problem is that most people don't reread them at an age when they can actually understand the nuances.
El cazador oculto o El guardián entre el centeno es una novela de J. D. Salinger. Al publicarse en 1951 (aunque Salinger ya lo había presentado en forma de serie durante los años 1945-1946), en los Estados Unidos, la novela provocó numerosas controversias por su lenguaje provocador y por retratar sin tapujos la sexualidad y la ansiedad adolescente. Es considerado por numerosos expertos como uno de los libros más importantes del siglo XX.
Su protagonista, Holden Caulfield, se ha convertido en un ícono de la rebeldía adolescente. Escrito en primera persona, El guardián entre el centeno relata las experiencias de Holden en la ciudad de Nueva York, después de ser expulsado de Pencey Prep, su escuela preparatoria.
The original poem was written in the 18th century.
A weet – wet
B draigl't – draggled
C gin – if, should
D cry – call out [for help]
E warl – world
F ken – know
Comin' Thro' the Rye
O, Jenny's a' weet,{A} poor body,
Jenny's seldom dry:
She draigl't {B} a' her petticoatie,
Comin thro' the rye!
Chorus:
Comin thro' the rye, poor body,
Comin thro' the rye,
She draigl't a' her petticoatie,
Comin thro' the rye!
Gin {C} a body meet a body
Comin thro' the rye,
Gin a body kiss a body,
Need a body cry?{D}
(chorus)
Gin a body meet a body
Comin thro' the glen,
Gin a body kiss a body,
Need the warl'{E} ken?{F}
(chorus)
Gin a body meet a body
Comin thro' the grain;
Gin a body kiss a body,
The thing's a body's ain.
(chorus)
Ilka lassie has her laddie,
Nane, they say, ha’e I
Yet all the lads they smile on me,
When comin' thro' the rye.
While the original poem is already full of sexual imagery, an alternate version makes this more explicit. It has a different chorus, referring to a phallic "staun o' staunin' graith", "kiss" is replaced by "fuck", and Jenny's "thing" in stanza four is identified as her "cunt".
Palabra: Sembrar
Feliz día de los impuestos todos. However, today's SWD has nothing to do with that. It means to sow. A related word is semilla, which means seed.
The question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between semilla y simiente, which also means seed.
Ejemplo time.
El reino del Dio es como una semilla de mostaza, que un hombre tomaba y sembraba en su campo. = The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. -- Matthew 13:31
I struggled with what word to use for "heaven." According to Reverso (my new favorite Spanish-English dictionary), the word in Spanish is cielo. However, I thought cielo meant primarily sky. I thought saying "The kingdom of the sky" sounded like I was mocking it, which I do sometimes, but is not my intention here.
I thought "kingdom of god" sounded more respectful. However, that brought up the issue of whether I should use Dio or Dios, and I will capitalize them out of respect. It seems that usually, if not always, when god is referred to in Spanish it is Dios. However, other passages in the bible when referring to god, in English, use the singular. I wonder if using the plural Dios is because Spanish speaking countries are primarily Catholic, which has a deeply-rooted belief in the trinity. So, another question for the advanced readers, in both Spanish and theology, is why is it usually, if not always, Dios and not Dio?
Quote: WizardFeliz día de los impuestos todos.
¿Feliz?
Quote:The question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between semilla y simiente, which also means seed.
My question is how you keep coming up with obscure terms. The dictionary agrees with you, but it's new to me.
Quote:El reino del Dio es como una semilla de mostaza, que un hombre tomaba y sembraba en su campo. = The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. -- Matthew 13:31
"Dio" is not a word meaning God or god at all. At least not according to the dictionary.
Aside from that, you're using different tenses in Spanish than in English. In Spanish you said "...that a man was taking and sowing..." To get the same tense you'd say "...que un hombre tomó y plantó..." But the sentence itself is fine.
Quote:I struggled with what word to use for "heaven." According to Reverso (my new favorite Spanish-English dictionary), the word in Spanish is cielo. However, I thought cielo meant primarily sky. I thought saying "The kingdom of the sky" sounded like I was mocking it, which I do sometimes, but is not my intention here.
The word to use is "cielo," sorry. Although not used to the same extent, "heaven" also means "sky" in English. Astronomers can be described as "studying the heavens," for example. I think, though, "el reino de dios" is appropriate, too, in this case; you'd better ask a Spanish-speaking Christian to make sure. IN this specific case, but again find a Christian, I think the term sued would be "el reino de los cielos."
Quote:However, that brought up the issue of whether I should use Dio or Dios, and I will capitalize them out of respect.
Capitalization aside, as I said above "Dio" is not a word for any kind of god. "Dió" is the past tense of "dar," "to give."
Quote:It seems that usually, if not always, when god is referred to in Spanish it is Dios. However, other passages in the bible when referring to god, in English, use the singular. I wonder if using the plural Dios is because Spanish speaking countries are primarily Catholic, which has a deeply-rooted belief in the trinity. So, another question for the advanced readers, in both Spanish and theology, is why is it usually, if not always, Dios and not Dio?
Well, not all words ending in "s" are plural. Most of them, yes, but not all. One good example is "dios," that's singular, referring to a deity. The plural is "dioses." BTW it's also male. The female forms are "diosa" and "diosas" respectively.
I'll get a jump on Paco, maybe, and point out the word "dios" comes from the Latin "deus," meaning exactly the same thing. Unlime many other Latin terms, this one kept the "s" at the end.
So in order to say "god" in Spanish, you always use "dios," capitalized or not.
Quote: NareedMy question is how you keep coming up with obscure terms. The dictionary agrees with you, but it's new to me.
Usually I get them from the dictionary directly. Put in the word "seed" in an English to Spanish dictionary and it will mention both semilla y simiente. The student like me has little way of knowing which term is common and which is archaic. Other times I get them from whatever book I'm working through, so may be a seldom-used word in Mexico may be common in Spain. For example, you never hear the word "pram" in the U.S., but it is common in Australia.
Quote:Aside from that, you're using different tenses in Spanish than in English. In Spanish you said "...that a man was taking and sowing..." To get the same tense you'd say "...que un hombre tomó y plantó..."
Hmmm. I know that we've been over the difference between the peterite and imperfect past tense several times, and I don't wish to rehash that, except to say I went with the imperfect because I thought you were supposed to when telling a story. So, can I say that a good translating of the imperfect is "was (verb)ing." Such as was talking, was singing, was playing, was sleeping.
The part about cielo, dios, y dioses was quite clear. No further comment there, although I'm sure Paco can stir up that topic again.
Quote: WizardUsually I get them from the dictionary directly. Put in the word "seed" in an English to Spanish dictionary and it will mention both semilla y simiente.
Did it mention it's also related to "semen" and "semental"? The first needs no translation, the second means "stud," but only as regards animals.
Quote:The student like me has little way of knowing which term is common and which is archaic.
Indeed. Even in formal language lessons, you're often confined to word choices and usage made by the authors of text books. My teacher told me that, and that's one reason he told me to read and watch TV and movie in English.
Quote:The part about cielo, dios, y dioses was quite clear. No further comment there, although I'm sure Paco can stir up that topic again.
That's why I cleverly stole his thunder :)
Speaking of thunder, and giving Paco and opening, I've often wondered whether the Latin "deus" is derived from the Greek name "Zeus." In Spanish the pronunciation of both words varies by only one letter, I imagine in Latin it does as well.
The Roman god equated to Zeus is Jupiter. But the Romans already had gods whom they then equated to the more interesting Greek gods.
Quote:When you get down to the most fundamental words like mother, father, and God you will find some correlation among all the IE languages. Some variant of Deus is all over the IE world, in Sanskrit, Gothic, old Germanic languages, etc.
Interesting. I knew that the word for mother and father is variant of ma and pa or ba in every major language. They say it is because they are easy for babies to say. My mother says my first word was "car." Anyway, new day, so let's move on...
Fecha: 16-04-12
Palabra: Migar
Today's SWD means to crumble. A related word is miga, which means "crumb," or the inside part of a loaf of bread.
The question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between migar y desmenuzar?
Ejemplo time.
El asesino debe haber gustado donas, porque se deja las migas en la escena del homicidio. = The murderer must have liked donuts, because he left crumbs at the scene of the homicide.
Quote: NareedThe word to use is "cielo," sorry. Although not used to the same extent, "heaven" also means "sky" in English. Astronomers can be described as "studying the heavens," for example. I think, though, "el reino de dios" is appropriate, too, in this case; you'd better ask a Spanish-speaking Christian to make sure. IN this specific case, but again find a Christian, I think the term sued would be "el reino de los cielos."
Originally "sky" was an Old Norse word which meant "cloud". Heaven was from from Old English "heafon" which meant "home of God". But there was always some overlap between God's home and the sky.
The English word "celestial" is a cognate with Spanish "cielo". In English you can refer to a "celestial body", and mean a planet, or you can say "celestial being" in which case you mean something supernatural.
Quote: NareedMy question is how you keep coming up with obscure terms. The dictionary agrees with you, but it's new to me.
Wizard,
I've noticed that if you look up a word in the DRAE, and it has one word definitions, it is often obscure word. Sometimes they say it is archaic.
simiente
1. f. semilla
2. f. semen
semilla
1. f. Bot. Parte del fruto de las fanerógamas, que contiene el embrión de una futura planta, protegido por una testa, derivada de los tegumentos del primordio seminal.
2. f. Grano que en diversas formas produce las plantas y que al caer o ser sembrado produce nuevas plantas de la misma especie.
3. f. Fragmento de vegetal provisto de yemas, como tubérculos, bulbos, etc.
4. f. Cosa que es causa u origen de que proceden otras.
5. f. pl. Granos que se siembran, exceptuados el trigo y la cebada.
Quote:When you get down to the most fundamental words like mother, father, and God you will find some correlation among all the IE languages. Some variant of Deus is all over the IE world, in Sanskrit, Gothic, old Germanic languages, etc.
Interesting. I knew that the word for mother and father is variant of ma and pa or ba in every major language. They say it is because they are easy for babies to say. My mother says my first word was "car." Anyway, new day, so let's move on...
Fecha: 16-04-12
Palabra: Migar
Today's SWD means to crumble. A related word is miga, which means "crumb," or the inside part of a loaf of bread.
The question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between migar y desmenuzar?
Ejemplo time.
El asesino debe haber gustado donas, porque se deja las migas en la escena del homicidio. = The murderer must have liked donuts, because he left crumbs at the scene of the homicide.
Quote: WizardToday's SWD means to crumble. A related word is miga, which means "crumb," or the inside part of a loaf of bread.
I didn't know that.
The word "migaja/s," meaning "crumb/s," is very common, of course. So is "migajón," which is the inside of a rbead roll (which often is removed before eating the roll for some reason). And there's a dish up int he north called "migas," which often means scrambled eggs with dried beef, tortilla strips, serrano slices and cheese (the last seems to vary much), but that isn't related to "migajas" as far as I can see...
I've heard "miga/s" used as "crumb/s" but it's not much used that way in Mexico.
Quote:The question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between migar y desmenuzar?
Migajas is confined to things like bread and baked goods. "Desmenuzar" applies to other things, like chicken and beef. Enchiladas, for instance, are made with "pollo desmenuzado;" which I'd translate as "shredded chicken."
Quote:El asesino debe haber gustado donas, porque se deja las migas en la escena del homicidio. = The murderer must have liked donuts, because he left crumbs at the scene of the homicide.
"AL asesino le debeN haber gustado LAS donas, porque DEJÓ migas en la escena del homicidio."
I sense some deja vu regarding the use of "deben" vs "debe." So I'll pre-empt by saying the plural applies to the object, in this case a very plural "laS donaS."
Good call in using "donas" for "donuts." Too many Spanish translations for some reason use "rosquillas." Don't ever use that word, not in Mexico. It tends to ellicit giggles :)
Quote: Nareed"AL asesino le debeN haber gustado LAS donas, porque DEJÓ migas en la escena del homicidio."
I sense some deja vu regarding the use of "deben" vs "debe." So I'll pre-empt by saying the plural applies to the object, in this case a very plural "laS donaS."
Well, I'll have to take your word for it, but this is a bitter pill to swallow. I have always thought that you conjugate based on the subject. The last time this came up was in translating "One can see many stars on a clear night." There it was easier to buy pueden, because "one" was such a soft subject. In case I ask my new tutor about this, may I simplify the question to how to translate "He left crumbs on his plate." I take it you would say the correct translation is:
El deben migas en su plato.
Quote: NareedGood call in using "donas" for "donuts." Too many Spanish translations for some reason use "rosquillas." Don't ever use that word, not in Mexico. It tends to ellicit giggles :)
To be honest, I didn't know about rosquillas, and probably would have used it had I come across it. According to Reverso, it means "ring-shaped pastry, doughnut." So, why would it elicit giggles in Mexico. I probably will say that anyway in Mexico, because laughter is a good thing.
Quote: NareedI hope this doesn't affect my offer to give you some further tutoring.
I'm not familiar with Peruvian usage of Spanish, but I've a feeling I'm about to learn :)
The above is from the "career advice" thread, which I'll answer here.
I was looking at CraigsList for a Spanish tutor and an ad mentioned lvspanish.com. This tutoring service meets in a used book store rather far from my house, but close to my radio station. I told them the only good times for me were Thursday afternoons, before my show. So I made an appointment and met with a gal who I think just started to work for the person who runs this tutoring service. As I wrote in the other thread, she is from Peru and I don't think has any teaching experience. She graduated from UNLV with a degree in graphic arts, but is having a hard time finding work in that field, so is tutoring as a way to pull in some money until something better comes along.
So, yes, I think we can all look forward to learning some Peruvian Spanish. She has already taken issue many times at the way my current book I'm reading was translated, saying "That isn't how we would say that in Peru."
Nareed, don't worry, I still plan to maximize our tutoring time while you're in town. I'll just have to cheat on my new tutor that week.
Finally, to continue getting off topic, there is a bulletin board near the cashier at this used book store of pictures people left in books they sold there, for the owners to retrieve. One is an autographed picture of Gavin MacLead, who played the captain on the Love Boat, one of my favorite shows from the 70s.
Do you think I'm in the ethical clear to take it if it is still there this Thursday? This picture looks really old, and I doubt the person who left it in a book knows about it or cares. If not, how long should I wait before I can snag it without guilt?
Quote: WizardIn case I ask my new tutor about this, may I simplify the question to how to translate "He left crumbs on his plate." I take it you would say the correct translation is:
El deben migas en su plato.
1) Do ask your tutor.
2) You just said "He must crumbs in his plate." The right translation, and I think you just confused the words, is "El dejó migas en su plato."
Quote:To be honest, I didn't know about rosquillas, and probably would have used it had I come across it. According to Reverso, it means "ring-shaped pastry, doughnut." So, why would it elicit giggles in Mexico.
It's a diminutive of "rosca," meaning a ring-shaped pastry. But in usage, roscas are big concoctions, not confined to pastries, but ring-shaped. There's the famous "Rosca de Reyes," traditionally eaten in January 6th. A "small" one is for ten people. There's a dish called "rosca de chilaquiles," which is made with plain chialquiles and refried beans, cheese and cream, baked in an oven in a ring-shaped mold.
To call a donut a "rosquilla" would be like calling a rowboat a small ship.
Besides, everyone in Mexico calls them "donas." The one instance they're called "rosquillas" regularly is int he dubbed versions of "The Simpsons." So you'd ellicit giggles for talking like a cartoon character :)
Quote:I probably will say that anyway in Mexico, because laughter is a good thing.
I won't even try to stop you.
Quote:So, yes, I think we can all look forward to learning some Peruvian Spanish. She has already taken issue many times at the way my current book I'm reading was translated, saying "That isn't how we would say that in Peru."
Look at the bright side: this prepares you to visit any country in Latin America (except Brazil).
Quote:Nareed, don't worry, I still plan to maximize our tutoring time while you're in town. I'll just have to cheat on my new tutor that week.
Good. I am rather looking forward to our sessions.
Quote: NareedYou just said "He must crumbs in his plate." The right translation, and I think you just confused the words, is "El dejó migas en su plato."
Oops. I confused deber with dejar, and then used the wrong tense. However, I still have one strike left. What I'm trying to accomplish is to get at the conjugation issue of dejar with as simple of an example as possible, to not confuse the issue.
So how would one say "He leaves crumbs on his plate"? I'm hoping you would answer El dejan migas en su plato.
Quote:I won't even try to stop you.
Good. I will do my best to embarrass both of us. Hopefully they sell donuts at the shrine of the Virgin Guadalupe for when you take me there.
Quote: WizardFinally, to continue getting off topic, there is a bulletin board near the cashier at this used book store of pictures people left in books they sold there, for the owners to retrieve. One is an autographed picture of Gavin MacLead, who played the captain on the Love Boat, one of my favorite shows from the 70s.
[picture]
Do you think I'm in the ethical clear to take it if it is still there this Thursday? This picture looks really old, and I doubt the person who left it in a book knows about it or cares. If not, how long should I wait before I can snag it without guilt?
Well, to steer things back on topic, you may want to know the show was called "El Crucero del Amor" in the dubbed Spanish version. That would trasnlate as "The Love Cruise," which isn't so bad. Except "crucero" also means "intersection" in Spanish, so it was easy to use the shows name as a place where a man may find a woman willing to exchange certain services for money.
As to your question, can you just take it or do you ahve to ask for it? if the latter, I'd tell the cashier or an employee I want it and why, and ask for permission. If you can just take it with no questions asked, do what your conscience tells you to.
Quote: NareedAs to your question, can you just take it or do you ahve to ask for it? if the latter, I'd tell the cashier or an employee I want it and why, and ask for permission. If you can just take it with no questions asked, do what your conscience tells you to.
You can just take any picture without asking. I don't think asking the cashier for moral guidance will help, as she will probably say what you just did. The problem is in the distinction between the letter and spirit of the rule. The sign says something to the effect that if YOU left a picture, here it is, take it back. However, I think that at some point nobody is going to claim it, and it will just clutter up the board. The probably throw away pictures if they were up there too long, to make room for new ones. Basically, my conscience is conflicted.
In other news, my landscaper Lamberto is here now. I asked him how to say "He leaves crumbs on his plate." If I understood him correctly he went with deja, but I wouldn't take him as the best judge of proper Spanish, and his English is terrible. After this he made a joke that dejar can also be used to refer to all the women one leaves.
i think if you just ask if you can take it because you are a fan that it is ok.
but if you are taking it to sell it i think it might be more ethically unclear.
hollywood memorabilia - gavin macleod
Quote: WongBothe gavin macleod picture most likely has a value of somewhere between $20 - $50.
I would just leave a note:
I am safeguarding an item from this bulletin board. It is an autographed photo of a classic TV show. If it is yours, please e-mail me at _________, identify the photo and the signature, and I will mail it to you.
On the off-chance that someone actually lost it, and wants it back, then you are covered. That way it won't be thrown in the trash or taken by someone who wants to make a few dollars.
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You need to review this section again about La pasiva refleja.
There is a way to use the passive in Spanish which has no English equivalent
Google Translate offers these possibilities for "The murderer must have liked the donuts"
El asesino le deben haber gustado las donas
El asesino le debe haber gustado las donas
El asesino debe haber gustado las donas
El asesino debió haberle gustado los donas
El asesino debió gustarle los donas
El asesino debía gustarle los donas
Nareed's translation was close to the first one. Nareed started the sentence with "A el" or contracted to "Al". The indicates "to the" or that Asesino is the object of the sentence and las donas is the subject. The sentence is using this "reflexive as passive construction" which does not exist in English.
Al asesino le deben haber gustado las donas
The "passive voice" in English is constructed with the verb "to be". In Spanish, strict passive voice also uses "estar". But this "passive reflexive" voice is used as much if not more.
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Quote: Language facts by Dinita Gohil, Peruvian SpanishWith the language spanning over several countries the regional dialects vary greatly. It is Peru however that is said to have the purest and most ‘correct’ Spanish. The reason for this is belived to be rooted in its history. Lima was the capital of the Spanish Empire in Latin America between the 16th and 18th centuries, and from here the langauge spread and gradually changed, i.e. in terms of accent and slang and in some countries part of the grammar, creating the linguistic differences that exist today.
That sounds like a good idea about putting up a note. However, if I took it, even with the note, then I think every time I looked at the captain's smiling face would stare me down, saying I did the wrong thing, and he wanted to wait patiently on that bulletin board, like a loyal dog, for his rightful owner to return. I could not do that to Captain Stubing -- I have too much respect for him. Also writing that note makes me look like some kind of bottom feeder. Like saying "I stole this and hope nobody notices. If anyone does, and asks for it back, I'll return it."
So, Paco, I read that page, but it didn't resolve my issue at hand. It contained this example.
“Se dice que este restaurante es muy caro.” = “It is said that this restaurant is very expensive”
That's fine, but how would you say "“It is said that these restaurants are very expensive”?
Also, I asked my new tutor by Email about how to translate “He leaves crumbs on his plate.” She said, "El deja migajas en su plato." Narred, what sayest thou?
Quote: WizardAlso, I asked my new tutor by Email about how to translate “He leaves crumbs on his plate.” She said, "El deja migajas en su plato." Narred, what sayest thou?
The sentence you gave to Nareed was: "He left crumbs on his plate." which was translated as "El dejó migas en su plato."
The difference between migajas and migas is minor. Both could be crumbs, but migajas could also be leftovers.
Quote: wizardEl asesino debe haber gustado donas, porque se deja las migas en la escena del homicidio. = The murderer must have liked donuts, because he left crumbs at the scene of the homicide.
Quote: Nareed"AL asesino le debeN haber gustado LAS donas, porque DEJÓ migas en la escena del homicidio."
I'm not questioning it, but have a hard time why it is debeN and not debe. So, I'm going to change the example to my tutor to "He must like eggs," to simplify the issue. I'll also change donuts to eggs, so that she doesn't think the Spanish word for donuts is the issue.
Quote: WizardSo, Paco, I read that page, but it didn't resolve my issue at hand. It contained this example.
“Se dice que este restaurante es muy caro.” = “It is said that this restaurant is very expensive”
That's fine, but how would you say "“It is said that these restaurants are very expensive”?
Se dice que estoS restauranteS SON muy caroS.
I had lots of trouble diferentiating "this" and "these."
Quote:Also, I asked my new tutor by Email about how to translate “He leaves crumbs on his plate.” She said, "El deja migajas en su plato." Narred, what sayest thou?
Perfect.
She wrote back, "A él le deben gustar los huevos".
I'll ask her to explain why it is deben, and not debe, this Thursday.
Quote: WizardSo, I asked my tutor to translate "He must like eggs."
She wrote back, "A él le deben gustar los huevos".
I'll ask her to explain why it is deben, and not debe, this Thursday.
I think you would normally use a contraction at the beginning: "Al le deben gustar los huevos".
It is a "reflexive passive voice". The subject is the eggs, and the object is "he". Reflexive Passive Voice doesn't exist in English.
English as true passive voice with the verb "to be". In Spanish true passive voice uses the verb "ser" and and the past participle of the verb in question.
Quote: Using the passive voice
If we are speaking of people, the situation is slightly different. For true passive sentences we follow the same pattern.
EXAMPLES:
Los bomberos salvaron a la víctima.
(active)The firemen saved the victim.
La víctima fue salvada por los bomberos.
(passive) The victim was saved by the firemen.
Los bomberos salvaron a las víctimas.
(active)The firemen saved the victims.
Las víctimas fueron salvadas por los bomberos.
(passive) The victims were saved by the firemen.
However, when we don't mention the "doer" and express the passive idea with a reflexive sentence, we do NOT match the verb to the people affected. Instead, we use the reflexive pronoun "se" as a kind of "indefinite subject" with a singular verb. It ends up meaning something like, "someone did it". Notice also that we use the preposition "a" to indicate the human direct object.
Se salvó a la víctima.
The victim was saved.
Se salvó a las víctimas.
The victims were saved.
It would be possible to use a normal reflexive construction also, but the meaning would be changed.
Se salvó la víctima.(without the preposition "a")
Se salvaron las víctimas.(plural verb and no preposition "a")
In these sentences, the idea is different. Instead of meaning that the victims were saved by somebody, they suggest that somehow the victims saved themselves, by their own effort.
Quote: WizardI'll ask her to explain why it is deben, and not debe, this Thursday.
Good luck.
The more I think about it, the more it seems my explanation is right.
Take these examples:
The thieves must have liked the painting, because it was the only thing they stole.
A los ladrones les debe haber gustado la pintura, porque fué lo único que se robaron.
The thief must have liked the sculptures, because he took them all.
Al ladrón le deben haber gustado las estatuas, porque se llevó todas.
I think, too, your original example about a murderer and donuts stayed too much in the spirit of this thread ;)
Quote: NareedThe murderer must have liked donuts, because he left crumbs at the scene of the homicide.
"AL asesino le debeN haber gustado LAS donas, porque DEJÓ migas en la escena del homicidio."
I sense some deja vu regarding the use of "deben" vs "debe."
So I'll pre-empt by saying the plural applies to the object, in this case a very plural "laS donaS."
The plural definitely comes from "the doughnuts", but I don't think it is the object of the sentence in Spanish. It is confusing because "the doughnuts" is the object in the English sentence.
Fecha: 17-04-12
Palabra: Liar
Today's SWD is another one that that has a lot of meanings. The main ones seem to be: wrap up, make a mess of things, confuse, get mixed up in.
Here is the full sentence where I encountered it, Le dije se estaba portando como un bebé y entonces nos liamos a empujones. I think in the context of that sentence it means to punch. Definition #7 at La Acadamia Real is "Dar un golpe."
I'll put off my ejemplo until I have a better idea what the word means, plus I'm in a rush to get to an appointment.
liar
to bind, to tie.
to wrap, to wrap up
(colloquial) to deceive.
ligar
To tie
To flirt
To link, to join
The English noun ligature is a cognate
Quote: WizardFecha: 17-04-12
Palabra: Liar
Oh, dear. I think we've done this one before. But since I don't want to search the forum for a homonym of "liar," I'll refrain from reaching for the yellow flag ;)
Quote:Today's SWD is another one that that has a lot of meanings. The main ones seem to be: wrap up, make a mess of things, confuse, get mixed up in.
Fair enough. It's not a common word.
Quote:Here is the full sentence where I encountered it, Le dije se estaba portando como un bebé y entonces nos liamos a empujones. I think in the context of that sentence it means to punch. Definition #7 at La Acadamia Real is "Dar un golpe."
Well, the translation I'd use, with the caveat I'm not familiar with the word and I'm not looking it up, is: "I told him he was acting like a baby and then we got into a shoving match."
"Empujones" means "to shove someone," or "to push someone," both in the context of a physical confrontation.
But I'm looking "liar" up now. Hmm. It's still not a common word, and I thought it meant "to fight" both from the example and the ressembalnce to "lidia" which does mean "a fight." Come to think of it, the past word might have been "lidiar."
Fecha: 18-04-12
Palabra: Alocar
One thing that used to drive me crazy was how to say "drive crazy" in Spanish. I think Me vuelve loco would be "It/you drives me crazy." What I had a hard time accepting was that I thought it was saying "It returns me crazy," as if I was crazy before and now I am again. However, as I understand it, volver doesn't just mean to "to return" but also to cause a change of states.
So, after all this trouble, I discover there is a perfectly good word for "drive crazy," which is alocar. A related word would be alocado, which just means crazy.
The question for the advanced readers is why does it seem most people user volver and loco to speaking about driving crazy, when just a single word, alocar, will do?
Ejemplo time.
Aloce cuando alguien llama día de Acción de Gracias "día de los pavos." = It drives me crazy when people refer to Thanksgiving as "turkey day."
Extra credit: Say, in Spanish, what drives you crazy.
