Spanish word of the day
Quote: etymonlineExactly which blow is meant is the subject of some debate; the word might have begun as a euphemism for suck, or it might refer to the explosive climax of an orgasm. Unlike much sex slang, its date of origin probably is pretty close to the date it first is attested in print (1933): as recently as the early 1950s, military pilots could innocently talk of their jet planes as blow jobs according to the "Thesaurus of American Slang."
This usage probably is not connected to the colloquial imprecation (1781, associated with sailors, e.g. Popeye's "well, blow me down!").
Translation: chupársela or comérsela a alguien (español de España)
The word run is ancient, but the idea of machinery running is 450 years old. The idea of run out of or "exhausting your supply" is 300 years old, and a run-in with your boss or total number of copies printed is 100 years old. A run in your stockings is 90 years old.
It is generally my belief that English words have far more definitions than Spanish ones, but I might think that only because English is my native language.
Quote: pacomartinThe original question is "could a Spanish word have two very different meanings", which are not obviously related.
I should think this happens in every language.
Quote:It is generally my belief that English words have far more definitions than Spanish ones, but I might think that only because English is my native language.
It could be. Even when related, two meanings can be different. Take this sentence: "A place with a population so small has no place in a list of prominent places in the first place." Funny thing is it translates almost word for word into Spanish. "Un lugar con una población tan pequeña no tiene lugar en una lista de luagares en primer lugar."
Anyway, I consider English to be more flexible. There's a dialogue scene in Robert Heinelen's much overated work "Stranger in a Strange Land," where a multilingual character comapres languages to maps. He makes the comparison that some languages are like maps with a large scale (that is many miles per inch of map), and some are like maps in a small scale (few miles per inch of map). The point being both maps can guide you from one point to another, but the lower scale lets you see more possible routes.
So, just abut any language can express any idea, but some give you more options as to how, and some give you more precision in such expression. But there's also culture to consider. There are a few ideas which can be expressed in one word in language A, which require a sentence in language B, and a complex sentence in language C.
For example, the English verb "to earn," is as near to untranslatable to Spanish as a word can be. Some simply translate it as "ganar," but that si simplistic and carries some semantical and philosophical issues with it, as "ganar" mostly means "to win" without regard of how the win comes about. So to explain "to earn" I would say "obtener algo por esfuerzo propio" = "to obtain something by your own efforts."
Oh, well, it's too early in the morning for this kind of thread.... :)
Quote: NareedFor example, the English verb "to earn," is as near to untranslatable to Spanish as a word can be. Some simply translate it as "ganar," but that si simplistic and carries some semantical and philosophical issues with it, as "ganar" mostly means "to win" without regard of how the win comes about. So to explain "to earn" I would say "obtener algo por esfuerzo propio" = "to obtain something by your own efforts."
I never realized that the verbs "to win" and "to earn" are both translated as "ganar" in the dictionaries. The phrases unearned income and earned income are pretty common in economic theory and in the tax code.
Palabra: Chula
Paco just recommended a restaurant to me in Chula Vista, California. CV is located just south of San Diego, not far from the Tijuana border. This got me to wondering what Chula means. According to SpanishDict.com it means "wench." Here is the full definition:
chula[choo’-lah]
noun
1. Woman from the back streets, low-class woman. (f)
2. Loud wench, flashy female; brassy girl (charra). (f)
3. girlfriend. (Ante Meridian & Latin American) (m)
noun
1. Punster, jester, merry-andrew. (m & f)
2. An artful, sly, and deceitful person. (m & f)
3. A funny person. (m & f)
4. Butcher’s mate or assistant. (m & f)
5. Bullfighter’s assistant. (m & f)
6. (m & f)
verb
7. PÍCARO.
8. Smart, attractive (aspecto).
9. Proud, jaunty, swaggering.
Con el sombrero a lo chulo -> with his hat at a rakish angle
Iba muy chulo -> he walked with a swagger
10. Brilliant, super.
11. Villain, rascal.
Chulo de putas -> pimp, pander
So, does Chula Vista means "view of the wench"? I'm always up for looking at wenches. According to other sites, Chula Vista means roughly beautiful view. My pocket dictionary says chula means show-off or smashing. Could these just be smoothing over the real meaning? It has been known to happen before. I won't say what the Grand Tetons means.
Clearly we need to shed some light on this word.
Ejemplo time.
Este lugar es demasiado aburrido. ¿Dónde puedo encontrar una chula para pasar un buen rato? = This place is too boring. Where can I find a wench to have a good time?
Well, these restaurants clearly aren't using the word to mean woman from the back streets
----------------------------------
There is an obsolete English word quean
(archaic) A woman; female person, considered without regard to qualities or position: hence generally in a slighting use.
(archaic) An impudent woman; a prostitute
& another English word queen
A female monarch. Example: Queen Victoria
The wife or widow of a king. Example: Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother
Somehow, both these words have come together to mean an effeminate male homosexual in common slang.
Quote: WizardPaco just recommended a restaurant to me in Chula Vista, California. CV is located just south of San Diego, not far from the Tijuana border. This got me to wondering what Chula means. According to SpanishDict.com it means "wench." Here is the full definition:
I move you ditch that dictionary and try this one:
http://www.merriam-webster.com
Just click on the Spanish-English tab in the search box. The definitions it provides, though shorter, are more ina greement with bothw aht I know and what the DRAE says.
Quote:Chulo de putas -> pimp, pander
That si ain common use, but it's slang. The "proper" word for pimp is "Proxeneta," which no doubt derives from ancient Greek and Latin.
Quote:So, does Chula Vista means "view of the wench"?
No. it means "nice view," or "pretty view,2 as you also noted. A related name, which is common in Mexico, is "linda vista." It's so common you often find it as one word "lindavista"
Quote:Este lugar es demasiado aburrido. ¿Dónde puedo encontrar una chula para pasar un buen rato? = This place is too boring. Where can I find a wench to have a good time?
Assuming the meaning is right, the sentence is perfectly constructed. Nice work.
Quote: NareedThe "proper" word for pimp is "Proxeneta," which no doubt derives from ancient Greek and Latin.
the sentence is perfectly constructed. Nice work.
In English to procure, from Old French procurer, from Late Latin procurare has had the meaning of procuring women for over 4 centuries. I assume the Spanish word is related.
The archaic word in English is whoremonger since pimp at the time was a French word which originally meant to dress gaudily. Sometimes Shakespeare refers to a fishmonger which is meant to be a joke as the clueless character doesn't understand the context.
POLONIUS: How does my good Lord Hamlet?
HAMLET: Well, God-a-mercy.
POLONIUS: Do you know me, my lord?
HAMLET: Excellent well; you are a fishmonger.
POLONIUS: Not I, my lord.
HAMLET: Then I would you were so honest a man.
Quote: Nareedit means "nice view," or "pretty view,2 as you also noted. A related name, which is common in Mexico, is "linda vista." It's so common you often find it as one word "lindavista".
Thanks. Okay, I'll try to give up SpanishDict.com, but it won't be easy. I'm very familiar with navigating the site. Webster's has a lot of ads and doesn't seem to have full conjugations of Spanish verbs.
Lindo/a is not often seen in place/business names north of the border. The Lindo Michoacan restaurant in Las Vegas is an exception. My tutor used to like to use the word. Anytime I showed her a picture of a baby, or anything women typically like, she would say "Que linda!" I wonder if that is where the English name Linda comes from.
YesQuote: WizardI wonder if that is where the English name Linda comes from.
Quote: WizardThanks. Okay, I'll try to give up SpanishDict.com, but it won't be easy. I'm very familiar with navigating the site. Webster's has a lot of ads and doesn't seem to have full conjugations of Spanish verbs.
Sometimes you come up with definitions I've never heard of. That lsone proves nothing, but many times other dictioanries disagree with such definitiosn as well.
Quote:Lindo/a is not often seen in place/business names north of the border.
It's not precisely common for businesses here. But "lindavista" is a common name for neighborhoods. So is "Vistahermosa," shich again gets compressed into a single word.
There is a very bad Mexican restaurant here called "Mexico Lindo y Que Rico." It's a play on a song called "Mexico Lindo y Querido."
Quote: NareedBut "lindavista" is a common name for neighborhoods. So is "Vistahermosa," shich again gets compressed into a single word.
There is a very bad Mexican restaurant here called "Mexico Lindo y Que Rico." It's a play on a song called "Mexico Lindo y Querido."
Bella Vista is very common name as well.
Fine Dining in TJ traditionally meant European food. Particularly Spanish, Basque, French, or Italian. There are popular Mexican places, but only one that I would call "fine dining". There are a couple of places in San Diego now that are Mexican fine dining.
Mexican fine dining was much more popular in Oaxaca City.
Quote: pacomartinFine Dining in TJ traditionally meant European food. Particularly Spanish, Basque, French, or Italian. There are popular Mexican places, but only one that I would call "fine dining". There are a couple of places in San Diego now that are Mexican fine dining.
There are some Mexican restaurants for fine dining in Mex City. Places like San Angel Inn, Villa María and La hacienda de Los Morales (though that one also has Spaniard food). But many people will tell you "real" Mexican food should be the opposite of fine, like the stuff they sell at stands in street markets, or worse than that.
Quote: NareedBut many people will tell you "real" Mexican food should be the opposite of fine, like the stuff they sell at stands in street markets, or worse than that.
A lot of European dishes originally had very humble origins, but has since been ratcheted up the prestige chain. In America a lot of what was fine food in the 18th or early 19th century would be considered very unhealthy today, as it was too fatty and lacked any vegetables.
Maize originated in Mexico nearly 10,000 years ago. Production in the US is now about 2400 lbs per person, but only 64 lbs per person is for human consumption - grits, corn flour, corn meal, beverage alcohol. Production in Mexico is 400 lbs per person, but I don't know the breakdown, but I suspect human consumption is still higher in Mexico than the USA.
El Agave restaurant in San Diego is one of a handful of restaurants in the county with fine Mexican dining
Although there are plenty of places to get tacos in San Diego county, most are pretty bland. Tacos El Gordo in Chula Vista (south of SD) is a Tijuana transplant that has some of the best (exit #8 off of Interstate 5).
The bolillo tortas (drowned sandwich) were popular in Guadalajara
Mole Poblano is the national dish of Mexico
| pasar | Type | (Del latin passāre, de passus, paso) |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | transitive | Llevar, conducir de un lugar a otro |
| 2 | transitive | Mudar, trasladar a otro lugar, situación o clase |
| 3 | transitive | Cruzar de una parte a otra |
| 4 | transitive | Enviar, transmitir |
| 5 | transitive | Ir más allá de un punto limitado o determinado |
| 6 | transitive | Penetrar o traspasar |
| 7 | transitive | Introducir o extraer fraudulentamente géneros prohibidos o que adeudan derechos |
| 8 | transitive | Exceder, aventajar, superar |
| 9 | transitive | Transferir o trasladar algo de una persona a otra |
| 10 | transitive | sufrir (‖ aguantar, tolerar) |
| 11 | transitive | Llevar algo por encima de otra cosa, de modo que la vaya tocando |
| 12 | transitive | Introducir algo por el hueco de otra cosa |
| 13 | transitive | colar (‖ un líquido) |
| 14 | transitive | Cerner, cribar, tamizar |
| 15 | transitive | Deglutir, tragar la comida o la bebida |
| 16 | transitive | No poner reparo, censura o tacha en algo |
| 17 | transitive | Dicho del poder temporal: Dar o conceder el pase a las bulas, breves o decretos pontificios |
| 18 | transitive | Callar u omitir algo de lo que se debía decir o tratar |
| 19 | transitive | Disimular o no darse por enterado de algo |
| 20 | transitive | Dicho de un estudiante: Recorrer la lección, o repasarla para decirla |
| 21 | transitive | Recorrer, leyendo o estudiando, un libro o tratado |
| 22 | transitive | Leer o estudiar sin reflexión |
| 23 | transitive | Rezar sin devoción o sin atención |
| 24 | transitive | Desecar algo al sol, o al aire o con lejía |
| 25 | transitive | Proyectar una película cinematográfica |
| 26 | transitive | Dicho de un jugador: Entregar la pelota a otro de su mismo equipo |
| 27 | transitive | Estudiar privadamente con alguien una ciencia o facultad |
| 28 | transitive | Asistir al estudio de un abogado o acompañar al médico en sus visitas para adiestrarse en la práctica |
| 29 | transitive | Explicar privadamente una facultad o ciencia a un discípulo |
| 30 | transitive | Traspasar, quebrantar leyes, ordenanzas, preceptos, etc |
| 31 | intransitive | Dicho de algo que se contagia o de otras cosas: Extenderse o comunicarse de unos a otros |
| 32 | intransitive | Dicho de una cosa: Mudarse, trocarse o convertirse en otra, mejorándose o empeorándose |
| 33 | intransitive | Tener lo necesario para vivir |
| 34 | intransitive | En algunos juegos de naipes, no entrar |
| 35 | intransitive | En el dominó, dejar de poner ficha por no tener ninguna adecuada |
| 36 | intransitive | Conceder graciosamente algo |
| 37 | intransitive | Dicho de una cosa inmaterial: Tener movimiento o correr de una parte a otra |
| 38 | intransitive | Proceder a una acción o a un lugar |
| 39 | intransitive | Ocupar bien o mal el tiempo |
| 40 | intransitive | Morir |
| 41 | intransitive | Dicho de una mercadería o de un género vendible: Valer o tener precio |
| 42 | intransitive | Vivir, tener salud |
| 43 | intransitive | Dicho de la moneda: Ser admitida sin reparo o por el valor que le está señalado |
| 44 | intransitive | Dicho de aquello que se podría gastar: Durar o mantenerse |
| 45 | intransitive | Dicho de una cosa: cesar (‖ acabarse) |
| 46 | intransitive | Dicho de un asunto: Ser tratado o manejado por alguien |
| 47 | intransitive | Dicho de una cosa: Ofrecerse ligeramente al discurso o a la imaginación |
| 48 | intransitive | Ser tenido en concepto o en opinión de |
| 49 | intransitive | No necesitar algo |
| 50 | intransitive | Mostrar desinterés o desprecio por alguien o por algo |
| 51 | intransitive | Ir al punto que se designa, para cumplir un encargo o enterarse de un asunto |
| 52 | intransitive | Sufrir, tolerar algo |
| 53 | intransitive | Ocurrir, acontecer, suceder |
| 54 | pronomial | Tomar un partido contrario al que antes se tenía, o ponerse de la parte opuesta |
| 55 | pronomial | Acabarse o dejar de ser |
| 56 | pronomial | Olvidarse o borrarse de la memoria algo |
| 57 | pronomial | Dicho de la fruta, de la carne o de algo semejante: Perder la sazón o empezarse a pudrir |
| 58 | pronomial | Dicho de algunas cosas: Perderse la ocasión o el tiempo de que logren su actividad en el efecto |
| 59 | pronomial | Dicho de la lumbre de carbón: Encenderse bien |
| 60 | pronomial | Exceder en una calidad o propiedad, o usar de ella con demasía |
| 61 | pronomial | Dejar salir gotas por sus poros, rezumar |
| 62 | pronomial | Entre los profesores de facultades, exponerse al examen o prueba en el consejo, juntas o universidades, para poder ejercitarlas |
| 63 | pronomial | En ciertos juegos, hacer más puntos de los que se han fijado para ganar, y en consecuencia perder la partida |
| 64 | pronomial | Dicho de aquellas cosas que encajan en otras, las aseguran o cierran: Estar flojas o no alcanzar el efecto que se pretende |
Quote: pacomartinA lot of European dishes originally had very humble origins, but has since been ratcheted up the prestige chain. In America a lot of what was fine food in the 18th or early 19th century would be considered very unhealthy today, as it was too fatty and lacked any vegetables.
All sorts of dishes have all sorts of origins. That doens't mean a humble origin means a humble preparation, even when it originated.
Quote:Although there are plenty of places to get tacos in San Diego county, most are pretty bland. Tacos El Gordo in Chula Vista (south of SD) is a Tijuana transplant that has some of the best (exit #8 off of Interstate 5).
Oh, tacos! There's this really great place for carnitas in Anzurez in Mex City called "Los Panchos." They have an ample menu, and a very nice dining room with tablecloths, real plates and waiters. it's not "fine dining," but it's very nice. They also have a taco stand abutting the street, without tables, chairs, waiters or cuttlery and using plastic plates.
Guess where my coworkers insist one eating when we go there <sigh>. I'm so glad I bring my onw food now and don't have to adapt to their tastes.
Quote:The bolillo tortas (drowned sandwich) were popular in Guadalajara
"bolillo" is the name of the roll used in tortas. Drowned tortas, a Guadalajara specialty, are called "tortas ahogadas."
Quote:Mole Poblano is the national dish of Mexico
You can get it anywhere, but I wouldn't call it the national dish. I'd leave that for the taco or the torta. And for the record, the best mole is made in Oaxaca. You should know that :)
Quote: Nareed"bolillo" is the name of the roll used in tortas. Drowned tortas, a Guadalajara specialty, are called "tortas ahogadas."
You can get it anywhere, but I wouldn't call it the national dish. I'd leave that for the taco or the torta. And for the record, the best mole is made in Oaxaca. You should know that :)
I knew that, and I meant to write it. Somewhere in the looking for photos, my brain snapped.
I know the best moles are in Oaxaca, but I have seen it called Mexico's National Dish so often, that I assumed it must be true.
7 moles of Oaxaca
Quote: pacomartinI know the best moles are in Oaxaca, but I have seen it called Mexico's National Dish so often, that I assumed it must be true.
I'd never heard it called that. It seems more plausible than calling Baseball America's national pastime, of course, but the things you do find everywhere are tacos and tortas.
Not that it matters...
As to where it came from, I'd always assumed some prehispanic peoples came up with it. But then I don't know whether it uses chocolate, which is a post-hispanic invention, or merely cocoa beans, which were plentiful before the Spaniards came. I've read somewhere the Aztecs mixed cocoa beans with chiles for some reason, so that's part of the recipe more or less.
Not that it matters, of course ;)
Quote: sales pitch
Como ya sabes, no tengo problemas a la hora de conseguir mujeres.
Para mí el sexo opuesto no representa una amenaza, son simplemente blancos a los que apuntar, y -- aunque soy un hombre común -- también sé que puedo conquistar prácticamente a cualquier mujer que deseo.
Creí que ya lo sabía todo...
I thought I would use this sales pitch to ask questions.
It starts off pretty simple "As you know, I do not have problems ..."
(1) When would you use the phrase "a la hora de" instead of something simpler like "cuando"? Would I translate this phrase as "when" or something more literal?
(2) The verb "seguir" means "to follow", but "conseguir" means "to get". Is that correct?
We have the same verb in English; example "I can tell she's going to segue from our conversation about school to the topic of marriage."
In English it means "to follow", but the implication is that someone is directing the action. In this case the woman is directing the conversation away from school, to follow it up with a conversation about marriage. The word "follow" by itself may or may not imply any guidance. I assume the word has the same meaning in Spanish.
But usually the prefix con- means "with", like console means "with solace", and consonant means "with sound" (sonorous).
I am not sure why conseguir means to get, and why wouldn't you use a different word that means "to get". Is there something special about this topic?
(3) The phrase " blancos a los que apuntar" sounds demeaning. The term "blancos" would normally be "white", but in this case it seems to mean "target". That definition is unexpected.
Palabra: telón
Sorry to interrupt, but it is a new day. This is a pretty easy one. Today's SWD means curtain. "I thought cortina was the word for curtain," you might say. I think that telón means a theater curtain. It may also apply to expressions like the Iron Curtain.
Ejemplo time.
Cuando el telón subió yo tuve un pánico escénico y no podía recordar mis diálogos. = When the curtain went up I got stage fright and couldn't remember my lines.
Quote: WizardSorry to interrupt, but it is a new day. This is a pretty easy one. Today's SWD means curtain. "I thought cortina was the word for curtain," you might say. I think that telón means a theater curtain. It may also apply to expressions like the Iron Curtain.
As far as I know, "telón" only means the curtain that hides a theater stage, or, if you can recall that far back, the curtain that covers a movie screen (no one does that anymore).
The Spaniards might ahve referred to the Iron Curtain as "Telón de Hierro," but here it was known as "La cortina de hierro." The Steeler's defense, BTW, was "la cortina de acero."
The word "telón" could be a sueprlative of "tela" which means fabric. The suffix "on/ona" often indicates something big or large. In this case it would indicate a very large piece of fabric.
Quote:Cuando el telón subió yo tuve un pánico escénico y no podía recordar mis diálogos. = When the curtain went up I got stage fright and couldn't remember my lines.
I'd get rid of the "yo" in there, but even so it is right.
That's two in a row. What gives? ;)
Quote: pacomartin(1) When would you use the phrase "a la hora de" instead of something simpler like "cuando"? Would I translate this phrase as "when" or something more literal?
"Cuando" means "when." "A la hora de," means "when it's time to" or "when it comes to." Remember a word can be translated more simply than a phrase.
Quote:(2) The verb "seguir" means "to follow", but "conseguir" means "to get". Is that correct?
Yes.
Quote:But usually the prefix con- means "with", like console means "with solace", and consonant means "with sound" (sonorous).
I am not sure why conseguir means to get, and why wouldn't you use a different word that means "to get". Is there something special about this topic?
I don't know. It could be that the word sounds as though it is another word with a prefix, but it isn't.
Quote:(3) The phrase " blancos a los que apuntar" sounds demeaning. The term "blancos" would normally be "white", but in this case it seems to mean "target". That definition is unexpected.
"Blanco" can mean "white" and "target," yes. "Blancos" means "linens" as in sheets and pillowcases.
Quote: NareedI'd get rid of the "yo" in there, but even so it is right.
That's two in a row. What gives? ;)
I normally don't like to use a lot of "yo"s, which I think is think is indicative of newbie Spanish. However, I made an exception in this case because I didn't want to have to conjugated verbs next to each other, in this case "subió tuve." Maybe a comma would have made the break better, I think in retrospect. I also thought you could use a "yo" for emphasis, which I was also trying for.
Regarding the two for two, just suerte beuna.
Quote: WizardI normally don't like to use a lot of "yo"s, which I think is think is indicative of newbie Spanish. However, I made an exception in this case because I didn't want to have to conjugated verbs next to each other, in this case "subió tuve."
It's partly habit and partly preference. Some people never say "yo" even when they should. Overall ther eis a tendency to leave out pronouns when they aren't necessary. I don't say people think whether a pronoun is needed or not and then decide accordingly, but rather that's the habit people pick up over their lives.
In any case, there's nothing wrong with the sentence. There wouldn't have been anything wrong, either, had you said "cuando el telón subió tuve pánico....", or for that matter "cuando subió el telón tuve pánico...."
Quote:Regarding the two for two, just suerte beuna.
Typo aside, it's "buena suerte."
You did that on purpose, of course.
Palabra: Estropear
Today's SWD primarily means to ruin. The dictionary lists other related meanings, like break, spoil, and damage. In the context I found it the word referred to somebody ruining (estropeando) somebody else's chance at fame.
I can't think of any questions, so the advanced readers are off the hook today, except to clean up after my mistakes, as usual.
Ejemplo time.
Estropeé el mole porque puse demasiada mucha sal. = I ruined the mole because I put in too much salt.
Quote: WizardToday's SWD primarily means to ruin. The dictionary lists other related meanings, like break, spoil, and damage. In the context I found it the word referred to somebody ruining (estropeando) somebody else's chance at fame.
It means to ruin, to break, to spoil, to damage, to render useless or worthless, etc.
Quote:Estropeé el mole porque puse demasiada mucha sal. = I ruined the mole because I put in too much salt.
Close. I think we've gone through this recently. "demasiada mucha" is like saying "many too much." Both words mean almost the same thing, except "demasiado/a" gets used in a few ways where "mucho/a" is not. In any case, pick one and only one per sentence.
Quote: Vince Foster (before his suicide on July 20, 1993)Here, ruining people is considered sport.
Vince Foster was a Deputy White House Counsel during the first few months of President Bill Clinton's administration, and also a law partner and friend of Hillary Rodham Clinton. His suicide only a few months after President Clinton's inauguration made the above quote briefly famous. The Shakespeare Company in Washington DC placed it prominently on the stage set for Macbeth later that year.
Google translates the sentence as
Aquí, la gente arruinando es considerado un deporte.
Nareed, which is the best verb to use when translating the sentence?
Quote: pacomartinAquí, la gente arruinando es considerado un deporte.
Nareed, which is the best verb to use when translating the sentence?
Arruinar. Estropear applies more to things than to people. BTW: "Aquí, arruinar a la gente es considerado un deporte"
Quote: pacomartinVince Foster was a Deputy White House Counsel during the first few months of President Bill Clinton's administration, and also a law partner and friend of Hillary Rodham Clinton.
And my classmate at Davidson.
Quote: WizardFecha: 3 de April, 2012 Palabra: telón
English cognate tela (plural telas) (anatomy) a thin, weblike structure or membrane
Aquí, arruinar a la gente es considerado un deporte - Nareed
Thank you Nareed.
Palabra: Hechicero
Today's SWD is one I should be familiar with. It means wizard or sorcerer.
A question for the advanced readers is how does hechicero differ from mago?
Ejemplo time.
Estoy en una misión de el Hechicero para obtener la escoba de la bruja diabólica del oeste. = I am on a mission from the Wizard to get the broom of the wicked witch of the west.
Quote: WizardA question for the advanced readers is how does hechicero differ from mago?
Actually there is a third verb that can imply magic: encantar= Someter a poderes mágicos. or (submit to a magical power)
But it doesn't look like the Spanish use the noun for a person with magical powers. Penelope Cruz is often referred to a the Spanish enchantress.
Mago, related to magician and magic has the same Latin root as the English words. But hechicero is not related to the English word "hex". In a rather unexpected twist, hechicero is a cognate of the English word "fetish". The development is rather complex.
Quote: WizardToday's SWD is one I should be familiar with. It means wizard or sorcerer.
A question for the advanced readers is how does hechicero differ from mago?
There's no Spanish term for Wizard. "Hechicero" comes close, but what it means is "sorcerer." "Mago" actually means "magician."
I suggested the term "mago" for you because the widespread translation of your namesake, The Wizard of Oz, is "El Mago de Oz."
Quote:Estoy en una misión de el Hechicero para obtener la escoba de la bruja diabólica del oeste. = I am on a mission from the Wizard to get the broom of the wicked witch of the west.
Very good.
I'd change "de el" for "del." It means the same thing, but Spanish shies away from repeating vowel sounds when possible.
Quote: Nareed"Mago" actually means "magician."
I suggested the term "mago" for you because the widespread translation of your namesake, The Wizard of Oz, is "El Mago de Oz."
I think that translating "The Wizard of Oz" to El Mago de Oz is doing a disservice to the audience. You're not supposed to know that he is just a magician until the end. It gives away a major plot twist in the movie. What was the translator thinking?
Quote: NareedI'd change "de el" for "del." It means the same thing, but Spanish shies away from repeating vowel sounds when possible.
I know, but sometimes my fingertips don't. Please add 10 push ups to my tab for that one.
Quote: WizardI think that translating "The Wizard of Oz" to El Mago de Oz is doing a disservice to the audience. You're not supposed to know that he is just a magician until the end. It gives away a major plot twist in the movie. What was the translator thinking?
I've no idea, but it goes at least clear back to the MGM movie, if not to the books that spawned it. You won't get it changed now.
Besides, it's a children's story. children may believe magic is real. Speaking of children, while I don't follow neither fantasy nor dubbed movies, I think Harry Potter is referred to as a "mago" in Spanish. Make of that what you will.
Quote:I know, but sometimes my fingertips don't. Please add 10 push ups to my tab for that one.
I won't. "de el" is also right, just not very common in that context. it does get used, you know. It's a perfectly valid choice.
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wizard from 1400's "philosopher, sage," from Middle English wys "wise" . The ground sense is perhaps "to know the future."
The meaning one with magical power did not emerge distinctly until c.1550, the distinction between philosophy and magic being blurred in the Middle Ages.
So the reason it isn't directly translatable into Spanish is that the words retain core meaning of "wise man" - Oz mythical land in L. Frank Baum's "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" (1900) and sequels; according to an anecdote written by Baum in 1903, inspired by a three-drawer desktop cabinet letter file, the last drawer labeled O-Z.
- sorcery c.1300, from Old French sorcerie, from sorcier "sorcerer," from Vulgar Latin *sortiarius, lit. "one who influences, fate, fortune," from Latin sors "lot, fate, fortune". The humble word sort is a cognate because it originally meant to "draw lots".
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magic late 1300's "art of influencing events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces,"
from Old French "magique",
from Latin "magice"
from Greek "magike"
from magos "one of the members of the learned and priestly class,"
from Old Persian "magush"
from Proto Indo European "magh-" -
fetish 1610s,
from Portuguese "feitiço" "charm, sorcery,"
from Latin "facticius" "made by art,"
from Latin "facere" "to make" ==> Spanish hacer
Latin facticius in Spanish has become hechizo "magic, witchcraft, sorcery."
purely psycho-sexual sense first recorded 1897 in writings of Henry Havelock Ellis
Probably introduced by Portuguese sailors and traders as a name for charms and talismans worshipped by the inhabitants of the Guinea coast of Africa. Popularized in anthropology by C. de Brosses' "Le Culte des Dieux Fétiches" (1760), which influenced the word's spelling in English (French fétiche, also from the Portuguese word). Figurative sense of "something irrationally revered" is Amer.Eng. 1837.
So a very simple word like hecho "to make" is related to hechizo "to make by sorcery". The common Latin word also gives us "fetish" because as everyone in the middle ages knew, deviant sexual behavior was always caused by witchcraft. "What are you doing with those shoes?"; "A witch made me do it!".
Sex and the City:"La Douleur Exquise!" pointed out that male foot fetishists were OK, because all women are basically shoe fetishists.
Quote: NareedI've no idea, but it goes at least clear back to the MGM movie, if not to the books that spawned it. You won't get it changed now.
Besides, it's a children's story. children may believe magic is real. Speaking of children, while I don't follow neither fantasy nor dubbed movies, I think Harry Potter is referred to as a "mago" in Spanish. Make of that what you will.
This still bothers me. Why would Dorothy go off on a quest to get the witch's broom for just a magician? She had to believe he really had the power to send to back to Kansas. Titling it "The Magician of Oz" would absolutely ruin the story -- book or movie. I really wish I were still on speaking terms with my tutor to torture her with issue. This the kind of thing that will keep me up at night.
I never got into Harry Potter, but he actually did have supernatural powers, didn't he? I seem to recall telekinesis from a commercial of one of the movies. That would also make mago a bad translation.
I have a feeling that if I ever do become bilingual I'm going to be tortured whenever I see bad translations.
Quote: WizardThis still bothers me. Why would Dorothy go off on a quest to get the witch's broom for just a magician? She had to believe he really had the power to send to back to Kansas. Titling it "The Magician of Oz" would absolutely ruin the story -- book or movie. I really wish I were still on speaking terms with my tutor to torture her with issue. This the kind of thing that will keep me up at night.
I never got into Harry Potter, but he actually did have supernatural powers, didn't he? I seem to recall telekinesis from a commercial of one of the movies. That would also make mago a bad translation.
I have a feeling that if I ever do become bilingual I'm going to be tortured whenever I see bad translations.
Harry Potter characters never had "unaided magical powers". They always involved a potion, a wand, a hat, herbs, a cloak , or some other material object. Nobody waved their hands or blinked and teleported.
The English word magician from it's first appearance in the 1300's, meant someone who could move the forces of nature in mysterious ways. The present meaning of someone who skilled in prestidigitation, illusions, and misdirection is about 200 years old.
It's not clear from the definition below if the Spanish concept retains the more supernatural portions of the definition
Concise Oxford Spanish Dictionary © 2009 Oxford University Press:
mago -ga sustantivo masculino, femenino
(prestidigitador) conjurer, magician
(en cuentos) wizard, magician
(persona habilidosa) wizard
( Hist ) (sacerdote) magus
Quote: WizardThis still bothers me. Why would Dorothy go off on a quest to get the witch's broom for just a magician?
What bothers me about fantasy is a lot more than that :)
Quote:This the kind of thing that will keep me up at night.
If it makes you feel any better, or helps you sleep easier, it was a while before I realized that "mago" and "wizard" were not the same thing.
Quote:I never got into Harry Potter, but he actually did have supernatural powers, didn't he?
Beats me.
Quote:I have a feeling that if I ever do become bilingual I'm going to be tortured whenever I see bad translations.
Good, we'll have something to do then :)
Quote: pacomartinIt's not clear from the definition below if the Spanish concept retains the more supernatural portions of the definition
Here is how Webster's defines "magic":
Definition of MAGIC
1
a : the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces
b : magic rites or incantations
2
a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source
b : something that seems to cast a spell : enchantment
3
: the art of producing illusions by sleight of hand
See magic defined for English-language learners »
See magic defined for kids »
Definition #1 would not rule out wizard-like power. However, it still bothers that the title of the movie implies the mago might be just a magician. In the books Dorothy I think is only about nine, at which she might believe all magic is real. Maybe a bad example, but my five year old always falls for the "I got your nose" magic trick.
Palabra: Palmo
In English a common unit of measurement is the "foot." While I think all Spanish-speaking countries are on the metric system, they have not entirely given up on the pie as a unit of measuring length. They also have palmo, which I take to mean roughly a "hand span." This dictionary says it is "several inches."
Those who know me can probably guess that I'm not big these vague terms. I want to know exactly how many centimeters are in a palmo!
Also, where I encountered the term it was translated from the English foot. Would this imply that Spanish-speakers are more familiar with using palmo than pie as a form of measurement? That will be the question for the advanced readers.
Ejemplo time.
El partido entero de golf se redujo a uno palmo tirar al hoyo. Por supuesto, perdí. = The entire game of golf came down to a one "hand" putt. Of course, I missed.
Quote: WizardWhile I think all Spanish-speaking countries are on the metric system, they have not entirely given up on the pie as a unit of measuring length.
I can't speak to other countries, but in Mexico the foot as a unit of measure is extinct. You hear about it only when someone needs to convert a measurement in feet to meters, and that's rare enough.
The gallon has fared better, being only 7/8 dead. Some paint brands are sold by the gallon.
Quote:They also have palmo, which I take to mean roughly a "hand span." This dictionary says it is "several inches."
It's not a common word in Mexican Spanish. I can't think of a time when I've come across it. In fact, I had to go to the dictionary, which has this to say:
Quote:1. m. Distancia que va desde el extremo del pulgar hasta el del meñique, estando la mano extendida y abierta.
2. m. Medida de longitud de unos 20 cm, que equivalía a la cuarta parte de una vara y estaba dividida en doce partes iguales o dedos.
Quote:Would this imply that Spanish-speakers are more familiar with using palmo than pie as a form of measurement? That will be the question for the advanced readers.
We're more familiar with using meters and centimeters.
Quote:El partido entero de golf se redujo a uno palmo tirar al hoyo. Por supuesto, perdí. = The entire game of golf came down to a one "hand" putt. Of course, I missed.
"...se redujo a UN palmo DEL hoyo."
Quote: Wizard
Those who know me can probably guess that I'm not big these vague terms. I want to know exactly how many centimeters are in a palmo!
basic relationships
uncia = palmus minor / 3
digitus = palmus minor / 4
palmus major =palmus minor*3
pes =uncia * 12 = palmus major + palmus minor
palmipes = pes + palmus minor
digitus 18.5 mm
uncia or pollex 24.6 mm
palmus minor 74 mm
palmus major 222 mm
pes 296 mm*
palmipes 370 mm
* 1 pes = 296 mm baseline equivalence
earth-based measurements
I always felt that the framers of the metric system had no right to disregard the ancient degree-minute-second earth based system. Had they made the distance from the equator to the north pole 10,800 km instead of 10,000 km they would have had a simple 2:1 relationship between minutes and kilometers.
The change would have been small enough that the system would have been quite usable. The base 10 system was fine, but there was no real reason to tie it to the size of the earth with a base 10 number. They just went overboard. Also it made the length of France exactly 1000 km along the meridian, which they liked.
Quote: NareedI can't speak to other countries, but in Mexico the foot as a unit of measure is extinct. You hear about it only when someone needs to convert a measurement in feet to meters, and that's rare enough.
Good for Mexico. I favor going to the metric system here, and not the half-arsed way Jimmy Carter tried to. Can you comment on why the translators of my book translated "foot" to palmo? What did Mexico use before the metric system?
Quote: NareedSome paint brands are sold by the gallon.
Why are they holding out?
Quote:"...se redujo a UN palmo DEL hoyo."
What is the word for "putt" in Spanish? For example, how would translate "My putting today has been terrible."
Quote: WizardGood for Mexico. I favor going to the metric system here, and not the half-arsed way Jimmy Carter tried to.
Let's start right now. Why not use only metric measures at this site?
Quote:Can you comment on why the translators of my book translated "foot" to palmo?
To sound more literary, perhaps, or because they liked the word better.
Quote:What did Mexico use before the metric system?
I don't know. Whatever the Spaniards used, I suppose. The Metric system is from the 18th Century, if memory serves, and Mexico achieved independence early int he XIX. I've no idea what the various indigenous peoples used.
Quote:Why are they holding out?
America dominates the world's hardware business, you know :) All those DIYers and so on. Seriously, Many measures related to tools and hardware are still in some form of Imperial system. In other industries not so much. Restaurants which buy food in large quantities go for large containers of oil, vinegar, condiments and so on. A popular size for vinegar is one gallon, but all the jugs are marked in liters (3.8 or so)
Quote:What is the word for "putt" in Spanish? For example, how would translate "My putting today has been terrible."
I don't know. I'll ask my brother when he comes back from vacation next week. I think many golf terms are the same as in English.
Quote: NareedI don't know. Whatever the Spaniards used, I suppose. The Metric system is from the 18th Century, if memory serves, and Mexico achieved independence early int he XIX. I've no idea what the various indigenous peoples used.
I don't know. I'll ask my brother when he comes back from vacation next week. I think many golf terms are the same as in English.
Goya's 3 May 1808. Famous painting of Spaniards defending city against invading Napoleanic army
Metric system became standard in France in 1799. France conquered Spain about 9 years later, and started the chaos in Europe that allowed the colonies to declare independence starting with Mexico in 1810. Mexico didn't formally adopt the metric system until 1867 after Emperor Maximilian was executed. It was part of Juarez's plan to modernize the country.
Prior to 1867 the United States was not industrial, and clearly Mexico was not. Mexico's first rail line from Veracruz to Mexico City was inaugurated on January 1, 1873. Measurements were less precise. Portions of Mexico were still under Indian control, and Spanish was not universal in the countryside. The constant wars had taken their toll. Population of Mexico was 8.74 million in 1868, while it was 6.20 million in 1820. US population was 9.6 million in 1820 and 38.56 million in 1870.
The dictionary says Mexicans use "putt" for the noun, and "potear" for the verb.
Quote: WizardCan you comment on why the translators of my book translated "foot" to palmo? What did Mexico use before the metric system?
My guess is that the word "pies" would be confusing since no one uses the word "foot" as a measurement anymore. The word centimeter, may have sounded out of place in time. The word "palmo" is clearly understood as a colonial measurement system.
Quote: WizardThis still bothers me. Why would Dorothy go off on a quest to get the witch's broom for just a magician? She had to believe he really had the power to send to back to Kansas. Titling it "The Magician of Oz" would absolutely ruin the story -- book or movie. I really wish I were still on speaking terms with my tutor to torture her with issue. This the kind of thing that will keep me up at night.
I never got into Harry Potter, but he actually did have supernatural powers, didn't he? I seem to recall telekinesis from a commercial of one of the movies. That would also make mago a bad translation.
I have a feeling that if I ever do become bilingual I'm going to be tortured whenever I see bad translations.[/q
Wiz,
I would love to hear you speak Spanish, so here's an idea. The next time you make a video with Dan or Angela, give us 30 or 60 seconds of your best Spanish. No fair practicing- just wing it. You could do this periodically and chart your progress.Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
