Spanish word of the day
Quote: pacomartinI do not know if it also acquired the same figurative meaning in Spanish. The DRAE definition is no help.
1. adj. Que está o puede estar en efervescencia.
Spanish dictionaries are often frustrating that way. You're meant to look up "efervescencia."
Quote: pacomartinWhy isn't the plural of person - persons?
I think in some situations persons can be a legitimate word. For example, a detective might say to another detective, "John and Steve are persons of interest in this case." However, I get your point. When you learn the language naturally these things don't bother you, or you forget that they did. I just recall my mother always correcting me for saying "me" and "I" was appropriate, and I still have fear of using the word "me" to this day, lest my mother appear behind my back and castigate me.
Quote: NareedI see you have an image there, but I don't see it.
The image says
CASI LO PILLO
tú ten la bolsa prearada
The image has a photo of two children in rigid hull inflatable boat in what looks like an ocean. The little boy is hanging over the side with a gold fish net, while the little girl has a plastic bag filled with water in one hand. In the ocean water is the fin of a shark.
Quote: pacomartinWhy isn't the plural of man - mans?
Because that would be Newspeak, not English? ;P
Quote:Why isn't the plural of person - persons?
I didn't know the plural of person was people. I thought they were two different words. in fact, by usage they are different words. Vox Populi, Vox Dei after all :)
Quote: NareedI didn't know the plural of person was people. I thought they were two different words. in fact, by usage they are different words. Vox Populi, Vox Dei after all :)
They are two different words in Latin. In English in legal and other formal contexts, the plural of person is persons. However, in casual usage the plural of person is people.
Words where different tenses come from two different words are called suppletive. In English go and went came from two different words.
In Spanish ir comes from three different verbs in Latin
voy, vas, va ,vamos, van
fui, fuiste, fue, fuimos, fueron
iba, ibas, iba, íbamos, iban
Palabra: Envolver
Today's SWD means to wrap or cover something. According to SpanishDict.com it has other meanings as well:
1. To wrap up, to wrap around with paper, cloth, or other analogous thing: to convolve; to inwrap.
Dos paquetes envueltos en papel -> two parcels wrapped in paper
2. To convince by reasoning. (Metaphorical)
3. To put things into confusion.
4. To attack an enemy on all sides, to surround, so as to force a surrender. (Military)
verb reflexive
5. To be implicated in an affair.
6. To be unlawfully connected with women.
Where I encountered it recently it referred to a candy wrapper.
A question for the advanced readers is what is the connection between volver y envolver? I also have a prurient interest in details on meaning #6.
Ejemplo time.
¿Por qué son los envolvederos de baterías tan difícil a quitar? = Why are battery wrappers so difficult to remove?
Quote: WizardFecha: 26 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: Envolver
A question for the advanced readers is what is the connection between volver y envolver? I also have a prurient interest in details on meaning #6.
Other dictionaries list "involve"more often than "convolve" as a synonym. I am not saying "convolve" is incorrect.
It is a verb that has assumed a lot of meanings over the years. In Latin the two verbs only differ by a prefix "in".
Latin:
present active volvō, present infinitive volvere; English: I roll, tumble.
present active involvō, present infinitive involvere: English: I roll about, wrap up, envelop, involve; etymologically from in (“in, at, on”) + volvō (“roll”).
In Spanish the primary meaning of volver is "to return", and envolver is "to involve" or to "to wrap".
The reflexive meaning (definitions #5 and #6) are not that much different than the English idiom "What have you got yourself wrapped-up in?" . You could be having an affair, or be involved with drugs. I think definition #5 is more about married men having affairs than anything else.
Quote: WizardA question for the advanced readers is what is the connection between volver y envolver? I also have a prurient interest in details on meaning #6.
None, as far as I know. they're just verbs with a similar ortographic structure (if that's the word I want). As for #6, I'de never heard it used that way. Here's a consolation prize, though:
"Envuelto/a" can mean being involved in matters or affairs. "Desenvolver" means to unwrap, but it also refers to how a person acts through a situation. So when Les Luthiers wrote of a mythical explorer who discovered the Americas one year before Columbus, part of the mini-play's title is "...de los acontecimientos en que se vió envuelto, y como se desenvolvió."
Quote:¿Por qué son los envolvederos de baterías tan difícil a quitar? = Why are battery wrappers so difficult to remove?
"¿Por que las ENVOLTURAS de baterías son tan dificiles DE quitar?"
Do you want some sympathy? In one of my earliest attempts to construct an Egnlish sentence, I said something like "Why are the wrappers of the batteries so hard of remove?"
It just takes time and practice, and suddenly you find yourself mastering a language.
Quote: NareedQuote: WizardA question for the advanced readers is what is the connection between volver y envolver? I also have a prurient interest in details on meaning #6.
None, as far as I know. they're just verbs with a similar ortographic structure (if that's the word I want).
The simplest translation of orthography is simply "spelling", but it often refers to the theory behind the spelling. For instance, as we said earlier, the English words "receipt, conceit, and deceit" are basically the same word with different prefixes, but only one has the letter 'p'. The theory behind the spelling was an attempt to acknowledge the ancient Latin word that had a letter 'p'. But the writer of the dictionary was inconsistent. So "spelling" errors are what you or I do, but "orthography" was what Dr. Johnson was doing in the 18th century when he wrote the dictionary that decided what correct "spelling" should look like.
So volver and envolver are spelled the same (last 6 letters) because they come from the same Latin root word. However, over the centuries there meanings in Spanish have now diverged.
Quote: NareedDo you want some sympathy? In one of my earliest attempts to construct an Egnlish sentence, I said something like "Why are the wrappers of the batteries so hard of remove?"
That doesn't sound so bad. If my Spanish sounded like that I'd be quite proud of myself, as the question is quite clearly understood. You also get credit for using "hard," which is a mas difícil word than difícil.
Thanks, as always for your help. I may not say it every day, but I am always very grateful for it.
Quote: WizardThat doesn't sound so bad.
"..so hard OF remove" doens't strike you as being so bad? My teacher laughed so hard he had a coughing fit! :)
Quote:You also get credit for using "hard," which is a mas difícil word than difícil.
I don't quite get that. I mean, the harder word there would be "difficult," wouldn't it?
Quote:Thanks, as always for your help. I may not say it every day, but I am always very grateful for it.
If I dind't know that I wouldn't keep posting. Oh, granted I tend to insert snide comments and to amuse myself in other ways as well, but I wouldn't post just for that reason. But of course you're welcome and it's nice of you to say so once and again.
Quote: Nareed"..so hard OF remove" doens't strike you as being so bad? My teacher laughed so hard he had a coughing fit! :)
I think that was rude of your teacher to laugh, and it doesn't strike me as funny but an honest preposition misunderstanding.
Quote: NareedI don't quite get that. I mean, the harder word there would be "difficult," wouldn't it?
Difficult has a pretty clear meaning, but "hard" can mean both a reference to texture as well as the level of difficulty. Probably other meanings too.
Quote: WizardI think that was rude of your teacher to laugh, and it doesn't strike me as funny but an honest preposition misunderstanding.
Oh, he was like that. Mistakes in pronunciation and prepositions made him smile. I didn't mind, because I'm a bit like that, too.
Quote:Difficult has a pretty clear meaning, but "hard" can mean both a reference to texture as well as the level of difficulty. Probably other meanings too.
Maybe. But it gets used more.
Quote: NareedMaybe. But it gets used more.
Yes, but "difficult" has only a single meaning in English, and it has the almost identical cognate "difícil" in Spanish. So you would consider it the first word that would come to mind.
The word "hard" means "solid, firm, not soft," also "severe, rigorous, cruel," and "difficult to do". It does get used more, but that's just because it has multiple definitions.
These are only a fraction of the uses and phrases:
hard-hearted (1100s)"obdurate, unfeeling"
harden (c.1200) make hard
hard (c.1200) "bold, daring, fearless"
hardship(c.1200) “quality of being hard,"
hardship(c.1300s) “disadvantage, suffering, privation”
hard-head (1510) “dull person”
hard-headed (1580s) “stubborn”
hard up (1610s) nautical term about steering
hard up (1821) "short of money"
hard and fast (1680s) nautical ship on shore
hard times (1705) "period of poverty"
hard money (1706) is specie, as opposed to paper
hard-bitten (1715) "tough" , originally of dogs
hard-boiled (1723) in reference to eggs
hardheaded (1779) “practical”
hard liquor (1879),
hard facts (1887)
hard-boiled (1886) "severe, tough"
hard on (1893) "penile erection"
hard-nosed (1927) "stubborn,"
hard hat (1935) "derby hat;"
hardcore (1936) Original use seems to be among economists and sociologists. Extension to pornography is attested by 1966
hard news (1938)
hard to get (1945)
hard drugs (1955)
hard-line (1958)
hard hat (1953) "safety helmet"
hard-liner (1963)
hard copy (1964)
hard rock (1967)
hard disk (1978)
===================
Just as an aside, I've noticed many groups of words where English uses one Latin word, but pairs it with a bib-Latin word
difícil - fácil : Spanish
difficult - easy : English
dif- ("reverse of") + facilis (“easy”) : Latin
We do have the English word facile but in English it means simplistic or superficial (but not simple)
Spanish uses the word simplista to mean English: simplistic
Palabra: atiborrar
Today's SWD means to stuff full.
A question for the advanced readers is what the "ati" prefix means, and does the word have the same root as borrar, which means to erase? It would seem that atiborrar is much the opposite of borrar, but I don't recall ati being used to negate a word before.
Ejemplo time.
Después de me atiborré esta semana aumenté 14 libras. = After I stuffed myself this week I gained 14 pounds.
Quote: WizardToday's SWD means to stuff full.
A question for the advanced readers is what the "ati" prefix means, and does the word have the same root as borrar, which means to erase? It would seem that atiborrar is much the opposite of borrar, but I don't recall ati being used to negate a word before.
Ejemplo time.
Después de me atiborré esta semana aumenté 14 libras. = After I stuffed myself this week I gained 14 pounds.
From the DRAE 'ati' is short for atibar.
There is nothing in these definitions about stuffing yourself with food. I am not sure if that is correct.
Quote: DRAEatiborrar (De atibar y borra).
1. tr. Llenar algo de borra, apretándolo de suerte que quede repleto.
2. tr. Henchir con exceso algo, llenarlo forzando su capacidad.
3. tr. Atestar de algo un lugar, especialmente de cosas inútiles.
4. tr. Llenar la cabeza de lecturas, ideas, etc. U. t. c. prnl.
5. tr. coloq. Atracar de comida. U. m. c. prnl.
atibar (Del latin stipāre, estibar, con cambio de pref.).
1. tr. Ingen. Rellenar con zafras, tierra o escombros las excavaciones de una mina que no conviene dejar abierta.
borra (Del latin burra).
1. f. Cordera de un año.
2. f. Parte más grosera o corta de la lana.
3. f. Pelo de cabra de que se rellenan las pelotas, cojines y otras cosas.
4. f. Pelo que el tundidor saca del paño con la tijera.
5. f. Pelusa que sale de la cápsula del algodón.
6. f. Pelusa polvorienta que se forma y reúne en los bolsillos, entre los muebles y sobre las alfombras cuando se retarda la limpieza de ellos.
7. f. Tributo sobre el ganado, que consiste en pagar, de cierto número de cabezas, una.
8. f. Hez o sedimento espeso que forman la tinta, el aceite, etc.
9. f. coloq. Cosas, expresiones y palabras inútiles y sin sustancia. ¿acaso es ~?
Quote: WizardToday's SWD means to stuff full.
Of something.
That should be implicit, but it's not. You have to specify what you stuffed full of.
Quote:A question for the advanced readers is what the "ati" prefix means, and does the word have the same root as borrar, which means to erase?
None that I know of.
Quote:Después de me atiborré esta semana aumenté 14 libras. = After I stuffed myself this week I gained 14 pounds.
"Después de QUE me atiborré DE COMIDA..."
The rest is ok. Instead of saying "comida" you can name a specific food, too. It doesn't matter much.
Quote: Nareed"Después de QUE me atiborré DE COMIDA..."
Y muchas bebidas de alcohol.
Quote: WizardY muchas bebidas de alcohol.
Estás dando un ejemplo demasiado específico :)
Quote: NareedEstás dando un ejemplo demasiado específico :)
It's not my example. Perhaps you're not following HB's weight loss challenge.
Fecha: 28 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: indumentaria
Today's SWD means clothing. How is it different from ropa, you might ask. I think ropa applies more to casual clothing, and indumentaria applies more to something you would wear that has a particular purpose. Perhaps "attire"or "costume" would be closer in meaning. Then again, atuendo also means attire, so I really don't know what sets indumentaria apart. Another word, to add to the confusion, is traje which means suit, including such things as a wet suit or space suit. I'll leave it to the advanced readers to explain it better.
Ejemplo time.
Como siempre, vestí demasiado mucho para la fiesta. Me sentía ridículo en mi indumentaria. = As usual, I overdressed for the party. I felt ridiculous in my attire.
Quote: WizardI think ropa applies more to casual clothing, and indumentaria applies more to something you would wear that has a particular purpose.
I think that it applies to fetish clothing as well as specialized clothing (like ski clothes).
Quote: WizardIt's not my example. Perhaps you're not following HB's weight loss challenge.
Lo sé. Por eso digo que es demasiado específico.
Quote:Today's SWD means clothing. How is it different from ropa, you might ask. I think ropa applies more to casual clothing, and indumentaria applies more to something you would wear that has a particular purpose. Perhaps "attire"or "costume" would be closer in meaning.
It's not an easy one, largely becasue I don't know. I worked for years in the rag trade (that's a Yiddish translation, BTW), and the word "indumentaria" hardly ever came up. I'm inclined to back up your estimate and say it means "attire," but ina general sense. For example, saying "wear appropriate attire to the wedding." "Costume" is mroe specific, as it refers to what a person is wearing at a given time.
"Ropa" means "clothes" and "clothing" in an even more general sense. All kinds of clothes, too, not just casual attire (see?). It's not common, but linens are often called "bed clothes," and coincidentally in Spanish the phrase "ropa de cama" means the same thing. Bonus: the spanish word for "linens" as a general term for sheets, pillow cases and such is "blancos." It's not used often in covnersation, but if you'r ein the local Walmart looking for sheets, you ask "¿Donde está la sección de blancos?"
Quote:Then again, atuendo also means attire, so I really don't know what sets indumentaria apart.
Nothing. They're synonimous.
Quote:Another word, to add to the confusion, is traje which means suit, including such things as a wet suit or space suit. I'll leave it to the advanced readers to explain it better.
I feel myself alluded for some reason ;)
I fail to see the confussion. As you say "traje" means "suit." This applies to a business suit, a space suit, etc. Perhaps you're referring to the Mexican practice of calling certain other things "trajes." For example, the clothes worn by Mariachi bands are often called "trajes de charro." That's rather specific, not a general term for clothes.
Quote:Como siempre, vestí demasiado mucho para la fiesta. Me sentía ridículo en mi indumentaria. = As usual, I overdressed for the party. I felt ridiculous in my attire.
"Overdressed" is a difficult term to translate. There's no literal equivalent. What it usually means is that you're dressed too elegantly, or too fancily, for a given situation. Like wearing a business suit to a casual gathering, or a floor-length gown to a semi-formal or informal wedding. The best I can do is offer a prhase "me vestí muy elegante para la ocasión."
"Indumentaria" is techincally used correctly (funny Futurama reference for another time), but as I said before the word is hardly ever used. So let's change your example to:
"Me vestí muy elegante para la fiesta. Me sentí ridículo, y me dí cuenta de que debí haber elegido indumentaria más casual." = "I overdressed for the party. I felt ridiculous, and realized I shoudl have worn a more casual attire.
BTW, "demasiado mucho" is menaingless. "Demasiado" means "too much." "Mucho" means "a lot," or "too many." Basically they are near synonims, so they shouldn't be used together.
BTW ][, "me sentía" means "I was feeling," while "sentí," or "me sentí," means "I felt."
Quote: Nareed"Overdressed" is a difficult term to translate. There's no literal equivalent. What it usually means is that you're dressed too elegantly, or too fancily, for a given situation. Like wearing a business suit to a casual gathering, or a floor-length gown to a semi-formal or informal wedding. The best I can do is offer a phrase "me vestí muy elegante para la ocasión."
How about the following words: overachieved, overcautious, overdo, overdue, overeducated, overindulged, overprepared, and overworked ?
Is overstimulated translated as estimulado?
How about underdressed, underachiever, ...?
I have to admit that overdue is the same as "past due", whereas the other instances it means "too much".
Fech: 28 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: cachivache
My pocket dictionary says SWD means "knick knack." SpanishDict.com goes into more detail, saying it means:
1. Broken crockery, or other old trumpery, laid up in a corner. (m)
2. A despicable, useless, worthless fellow. (Metaphorical) (m)
3. Cachivaches, pots, pants, kitchen utensils. (m)
Where I found the word it was translated from the English "junk," as in a "junk drawer" meaning a drawer where you keep things you hardly ever use, but you don't have the heart to throw away, because someday something in it may come in handy. I'm infamous for having a hard time throwing away cachivaches.
I'm very eager to hear Paco's etymology of the word.
Ejemplo time.
No puedo encontrar algo entre toda mis cachivaches. = I can't find anything among all my junk.
Quote: WizardI'm very eager to hear Paco's etymology of the word.
It might come from "cachos y vasos" = "pieces and glasses" but no one knows for sure.
I think all languages have some words or phrases whose assonance is valued for it's own sake.
This old man, he played one,
He played knick-knack on my thumb;
With a knick-knack paddywhack,
Give the dog a bone,
This old man came rolling home.
Quote: WizardThanks Nareed for a good reply above.
De nada.
Quote:I'm very eager to hear Paco's etymology of the word.
The sound of it reminds me of French.
Quote:No puedo encontrar algo entre toda mis cachivaches. = I can't find anything among all my junk.
"...entre TODOS mis..." Other than that it's fine.
Quote: pacomartinHow about the following words: overachieved, overcautious, overdo, overdue, overeducated, overindulged, overprepared, and overworked ?
I've been thinking about it, and there's no general rule to cover them. Some can be easily translated, some can't. Excluding the first word, overachieved, take these in order:
Demasiado cuidadoso/a
Sobrepasado/sobrepasar (requiring a precise illustration of what was overdone)
Overdue is problematic, because "due" isn't available in Spanish. A translation would depend on what was overdue. For example, if a library book is overdue, you'd say "Este libro ha pasado la fecha límite de entrega." If you've played 7 million hands of VP without hitting a royal, so it's overdue you'd say "Ya se pasó la flor imperial por mucho."
Sobre-educado, but the term is rather meaningless. You'd ahve to explain the exact meaning in a sentence.
Overindulged has the same trouble as overdue. If you overindulged in alcohol, you'd ahve to say "bebí demasiado." There's no term to cover it.
Overprepared makes no sense to me in English :)
Overworked, well, look at overdue again. Someone complaining I work too much would say "A nareed la trabajan demasiado," or "A Nareed le exigen mucho trabajo."
English overall is a more flexible language, which allows for taking a word, like over, and turning it into a prefix. Spanish rarely works like that.
Palabra: Reprobar
Today's SWD means to fail, at least in the context I found it. According to SpanishDist.com, it has lots of other meanings: To reject, to condemn (censurar), to contradict, to exclude, to upbraid, to reprobate, to damn (condenar).
The question to the advanced readers concerns the relationship between probar, which means to test, and reprobar. In English if you put "re" in front of a verb, it means to do something again. Both stick with the test-taking theme, but to fail a test is not the same as taking a test twice. Then again, maybe you're taking it twice because you failed it the first time.
Ejemplo time.
Reprobé el examen de champú. Creo que abandonar la escuela de belleza. = I flunked the test on shampoo. I think I will drop out of beauty school.
On an unrelated topic, may I ask for a translation of the following sentence, especially the underlined part. No teno idea de lo que es un "sporano," pero durante el camino de vuelta a casa las chicas iban soltando ristas detrás de mí.
Quote: WizardFecha: 31 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: Reprobar
Today's SWD means to fail, at least in the context I found it. According to SpanishDist.com, it has lots of other meanings: To reject, to condemn (censurar), to contradict, to exclude, to upbraid, to reprobate, to damn (condenar).
The Way Back Home
Latin probus (“good, virtuous”)
reprobar (Latin America) to flunk, to fail (to pass an exam, curse etc.)
aprobar to approve, to pass (an exam)
probar to prove, to taste
comprobar to prove; to check; to verify
English: prove, probe, probable, approve, reprobate, proverb / proverbial, provenance, provenience, and reproach (uncertain)
Quote: WizardThe question to the advanced readers concerns the relationship between probar, which means to test, and reprobar. In English if you put "re" in front of a verb, it means to do something again. Both stick with the test-taking theme, but to fail a test is not the same as taking a test twice.
To quote Wiktionary: The Latin prefix rĕ- has a parallel in Umbrian re-, but its further etymology is unknown (OED). While it carries a general sense of "back" or "backwards", its precise sense is not always clear, and its great productivity in classical Latin has the tendency to obscure its original meaning.
So in Spanish it can mean again but also backwards. It also has a second etymology of Celtic origin that means intensification as in rebueno which means "very good".
--------------------------
Once again I repeat the observation that in English we have word pairs as follows:
cognition & recognition
cognize (rarely used) & recognize
but, in normal speech we often substitute an Anglo Saxon word "know" for the very obscure word "cognize" of Latin origin.
In Spanish the cognates are conocer & reconocer . So usually we translate "to know" as conocer.
Quote: WizardToday's SWD means to fail, at least in the context I found it. According to SpanishDist.com, it has lots of other meanings: To reject, to condemn (censurar), to contradict, to exclude, to upbraid, to reprobate, to damn (condenar).
The most commonly used meaning by far is "to fail."
Quote:The question to the advanced readers concerns the relationship between probar, which means to test, and reprobar. In English if you put "re" in front of a verb, it means to do something again. Both stick with the test-taking theme, but to fail a test is not the same as taking a test twice. Then again, maybe you're taking it twice because you failed it the first time.
No, it's not related, at least not that way. You can fail a homework assignment, too, for example, if the teacher grades it.
Prefixes in Spanish are far from consistent. "Re" in particular does mean "to do something again" or "to do something over," but not always. It can also mean "well." Take a well-known phrase "frijoles refritos." You'd think it means beans which are fried twice, and it's commonly translated to English as "re-fried beans." What it means is "well-fried beans." Or say you did particularly well ona test, much better than you expected to. You'd say "Me fué re-bien en el examen."
In the case of "reprobar," it means neither.
Quote:Reprobé el examen de champú. Creo que abandonar la escuela de belleza. = I flunked the test on shampoo. I think I will drop out of beauty school.
"..Creo que abandonarÉ la escuela..."
BTW, while "champú" is technically correct and some people do pronounce it that way, most commonly the word used id "shampoo." From time to time you see it spelled as "shampú." In Mexico using the sound "ch" in words spelled with "sh" is seen as low class and ignorant. Just a tip.
Quote:On an unrelated topic, may I ask for a translation of the following sentence, especially the underlined part. No teno idea de lo que es un "sporano," pero durante el camino de vuelta a casa las chicas iban soltando ristas detrás de mí.
"I've no idea what a soprano is, but on the way back home the girls were giggling behind my back"
Quote: NareedPrefixes in Spanish are far from consistent. "Re" in particular does mean "to do something again" or "to do something over," but not always. It can also mean "well." Take a well-known phrase "frijoles refritos." You'd think it means beans which are fried twice, and it's commonly translated to English as "re-fried beans." What it means is "well-fried beans." Or say you did particularly well ona test, much better than you expected to. You'd say "Me fué re-bien en el examen."
As I said earlier the re- prefix was not completely consistent in Latin, so we would naturally expect inconsistencies in the descendant languages. In English the word resplendant means very splendid. Also, the Celts used the re- prefix as an intensifier.
Nice trivia Nareed. I never thought about "refried beans", as most of us gringos assume they are twice cooked.
What does Estoy re cansada mean in Mexican Spanish? Does it mean, I am very tired?
Just a word about the Celtic empire that came before the Roman Empire. Today, we associate celtic culture with Ireland, Scotland, and Wales but it was far reaching, and is still partly alive in Galicia in the Northwest corner of Spain where some people still play bagpipes and wear kilts.
England (where I mean England and not Britain), was not only invaded multiple times, by the Romans, the Anglo Saxons, the Vikings, and the Normans, but it also suffered devastating population meltdowns. The Anglo-Saxons (hence Anglo-land) drove the native population out of the central part of England. The Norman conquest included massive genocide, and the black death destroyed much of England while being slightly less devastating to the mountainous regions.
As a result, the English people in Britain, America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and elsewhere came from a relatively small population 4 centuries ago. That is why most English people are fairly closely related (and Barack Obama is 17th cousins with Queen Elizabeth).
The Spanish and French people were invaded frequently (by Vandals, Visigoths, and Moors), but their population was never reduced to such small numbers. As a result, they have more diversity. Some of the Celtic words survived in Spain, more-so than in English.
List of Spanish words of Celtic origin
Short list of English words from Ancient British celtic language excluding words that came back into English from Welsh, Scottish and Gaelic.
Quote: NareedPrefixes in Spanish are far from consistent. "Re" in particular does mean "to do something again" or "to do something over," but not always. It can also mean "well." Take a well-known phrase "frijoles refritos." You'd think it means beans which are fried twice, and it's commonly translated to English as "re-fried beans." What it means is "well-fried beans." Or say you did particularly well ona test, much better than you expected to. You'd say "Me fué re-bien en el examen."
Thanks, that is good stuff. My next visit to a Mexican restaurant I will try to impress somebody with this bit of Spanish.
However, I'm still wondering why there is a "re" in reprobar. Paco, is it fair to say you're stumped?
Quote:No teno idea de lo que es un "sporano," pero durante el camino de vuelta a casa las chicas iban soltando ristas detrás de mí. =
"I've no idea what a soprano is, but on the way back home the girls were giggling behind my back"
Thanks. I thought it meant that, but there was no mention of going back home in the English version. So, I thought it was an idiom for something.
Quote: WizardThanks, that is good stuff. My next visit to a Mexican restaurant I will try to impress somebody with this bit of Spanish.
Oh, I can provide more trivia. I think I've brought up before that chipotle peppers don't exist?
Quote:However, I'm still wondering why there is a "re" in reprobar. Paco, is it fair to say you're stumped?
I am stumped. The dictionary just gives a definition. Nothing more.
"Probar" means "to test," "to try," "to taste," "to try on," and possibly other things as well.
Quote:Thanks. I thought it meant that, but there was no mention of going back home in the English version. So, I thought it was an idiom for something.
Nominally "casa" means "house" and "hogar" means "home" (and also "hearth"). But virtually no one uses the word "hogar" to mean home. Currently I live in an apartment, not a house, but when I refer to it I do most often say "casa."
Just to make it more complicated "caza" means "hunt."
Quote: WizardHowever, I'm still wondering why there is a "re" in reprobar. Paco, is it fair to say you're stumped?
aprobar means "approve"
reprobar is defined as "no aprobar" (see DRAE)
probar means to test to see if you approve of it (or to taste)
In Latin (hence in Spanish) the prefix did not have a consistent meaning. In this case it does not mean "back again", but means "no".
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The "intensification" meaning of the prefix is also in English as well as Spanish, but it is considerably more rare in English. The example I gave before is resplendent where it means "very splendid".
In Spanish you can say "rebueno" for "very good"
Quote: pacomartinaprobar means "approve"
reprobar is defined as "no aprobar" (see DRAE)
probar means to test to see if you approve of it (or to taste)
In Latin (hence in Spanish) the prefix did not have a consistent meaning. In this case it does not mean "back again", but means "no".
In that case, I would assume that reprobar means to NOT take a test. However, the subject did take a test, and failed it. Can we assume that probar means to take a test -- and pass it? In which case reprobar would at least negate the second part.
Quote: WizardCan we assume that probar means to take a test -- and pass it? In which case reprobar would at least negate the second part.
No. There's no one word in Spanish that means "to take a test." A school test is either "prueba" or "examen," with the latter by far more common. If you don't take it of course you fail, but if you take it and fail you'd say "reprobé el examen."
I think you should focus on two English words "approve" and "reprove." The latter is not the opposite of the former (that would be disapprove), but it looks that way. Same thing with "probar" and "reprobar."
Quote: NareedNo. There's no one word in Spanish that means "to take a test." A school test is either "prueba" or "examen," with the latter by far more common. If you don't take it of course you fail, but if you take it and fail you'd say "reprobé el examen."
I think you should focus on two English words "approve" and "reprove." The latter is not the opposite of the former (that would be disapprove), but it looks that way. Same thing with "probar" and "reprobar."
That makes sense to me. Reprove does not mean "disapproval", but it does mean "to express disapproval" or "to convey one’s disapproval of (a behaviour, action etc.)".
I mean "to test" like "to taste" or "to probe", not like in "taking an exam".
Quote: pacomartin
aprobar means "approve"
reprobar is defined as "no aprobar" (see DRAE)
probar means to test to see if you approve of it (or to taste)
In Latin (hence in Spanish) the prefix did not have a consistent meaning. In this case it does not mean "back again", but means "no".
I'm still trying to get my head around this. So, reprobar means "no" aprobar. I would take that to mean to disapprove. However to fail and to disapprove are different things. Maybe I failed a test because I disapproved of the test or subject matter, but not necessarily.
Quote: WizardI'm still trying to get my head around this. So, reprobar means "no" aprobar. I would take that to mean to disapprove. However to fail and to disapprove are different things. Maybe I failed a test because I disapproved of the test or subject matter, but not necessarily.
The English word reprove is from the same Latin word as reprobar. The Latin word is reprobāre. The words mean to "express disapproval" .
Another way to say it is it is possible for "dissaprove" to have an intransitive meaning. It can represent your state of mind - "Mike disapproves of slutty dresses". But "reprove" is solely a transitive verb. You can only say "Mike reproved the women for dressing slutty".
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I realize that the 2nd definition I got from Wiktionary is not entirely consistent with thd definition of reprove above.
Verb reprobar
1. to condemn, disapprove
2. (Latin America) to flunk, to fail (to pass an exam, curse etc.)
The DRAE definition is
1. transitive No aprobar, dar por malo.
Wizard, I'll see if I can get you a recording of "La Gallinita Dijo Eureka." I think you'll like it ;)
Quote: NareedI just realized in English the words "probate" and "reprobate" have very different and unrelated meanings.
La Gallinita Dijo Eureka
La importancia de enseñar inglés
The etymologies are similar, even if the present use is different.
probate (n.)
"official proving of a will," c.1400, from Latin probatum "a thing proved," past participle of probare "to try, test, prove" .
reprobate (adj.)
1540s, "rejected as worthless," from Late Latin reprobatus, past participle of reprobare "disapprove, reject, condemn," from Latine re- "opposite of, reversal of previous condition" + probare "prove to be worthy" (see probate).
The noun is recorded from 1540s, "one rejected by God."
Sense of "abandoned or unprincipled person" is from 1590s.
Earliest form of the word in English was a verb, meaning "to disapprove" (early 15c.).
Fecha: 1 de April, 2012
Palabra: Arrancar
Today's SWD means to uproot, tear out, or extract. In the context I found it, they used it to pick an apple from a tree:
Tengo que decirla cuando Dorothy arranca una manzana de una de mis ramas. = I have to say it when Dorothy picks an apple from one of my branches.
Ejemplo time.
Si mi cerdo no arrancará ningún trufas me voy a lo comer. = If my pig does not uproot any truffles then I'm going to eat him.
Quote: WizardSorry to change the topic, but I'm feeling we've beaten reprobar to death.
And then some. But we learned something.
Quote:Today's SWD means to uproot, tear out, or extract.
It also means to start a car, or to set a car in motion. You don't turn the car on, not in Mexico, you don't start it, either. Well, you do, but the word you use is "arranca el coche."
Quote:Tengo que decirla cuando Dorothy arranca una manzana de una de mis ramas. = I have to say it when Dorothy picks an apple from one of my branches.
That seems like a sentence fragment. in any case "Tengo que decirlO..."
Quote:Si mi cerdo no arrancará ningún trufas me voy a lo comer. = If my pig does not uproot any truffles then I'm going to eat him.
You said "If my pig won't uproot...." For what you meant the translation is "Si mi cerdo no aranca ningunA...."
Quote: NareedIt also means to start a car, or to set a car in motion. You don't turn the car on, not in Mexico, you don't start it, either. Well, you do, but the word you use is "arranca el coche."
Interesting. That seems to not belong in the group of other usages of arrancar. Can you elaborate on why people say that?
Quote:That seems like a sentence fragment. in any case "Tengo que decirlO..."
In the previous sentences the speaker was saying that he had to only say one word (palabra) in the play of the Wizard of Oz. So, I think the la was referring to the feminine palabra. However, that brings up a question if the feminine/masculine nature of the subject matter can carry over from one sentence to another in Spanish.
Quote:For what you meant the translation is "Si mi cerdo no aranca ningunA...."
Stupid mistake. I owe 10 push ups for that one.
Quote: WizardInteresting. That seems to not belong in the group of other usages of arrancar. Can you elaborate on why people say that?
It would be difficult because I don't know. The word is also used when people, cars or horses set off on a race. A driver with the pole position can be described as "arranca en el primer sitio." When horses set off in the racetrack, the announcer says "¡arrancan!"
So it is fairly consistent.
Quote:In the previous sentences the speaker was saying that he had to only say one word (palabra) in the play of the Wizard of Oz. So, I think the la was referring to the feminine palabra. However, that brings up a question if the feminine/masculine nature of the subject matter can carry over from one sentence to another in Spanish.
I leave such things up to context. Sometimes the word's gender is essential in identifying what is meant in an indirect reference, sometimes it's irrelevant. It depends on what you're trying to say and how you're saying it.
Quote: WizardInteresting. That seems to not belong in the group of other usages of arrancar. Can you elaborate on why people say that?
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The noun arranque means the "starting mechanism"
- el motor tiene algunos problemas de arranque = the engine has problems getting started
- arranque automático = starter motor
- arranque en frío = cold start
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arranque manual = crank start
It also means "the beginning" - el arranque de esta tradición se remonta al siglo XVIII = the beginning of this tradition dates back to the 18th century;
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el arranque de la historia es muy original = the beginning of the story is very original
The word has an uncertain etymology.
Quote: pacomartin
The noun arranque means the "starting mechanism"el motor tiene algunos problemas de arranque = the engine has problems getting started arranque automático = starter motor arranque en frío = cold start arranque manual = crank start
It also means "the beginning"el arranque de esta tradición se remonta al siglo XVIII = the beginning of this tradition dates back to the 18th century; el arranque de la historia es muy original = the beginning of the story is very original
The word has an uncertain etymology.
Is it possible that arrancar, and its derivatives, just have two very different meanings of uproot and to start? We certainly see a lot of that in English. For example blow can mean to exhale (blow out the candles) or to fail miserably at something (If I don't study I will blow the test).
Quote: WizardIs it possible that arrancar, and its derivatives, just have two very different meanings of uproot and to start? We certainly see a lot of that in English. For example blow can mean to exhale (blow out the candles) or to fail miserably at something (If I don't study I will blow the test).
Usually there is a connection somewhere along the way, but it is possible that even etymologists can't trace the changes. Many times they just document the first written reference to a new usage.
For instance:
blow - in the sense of "moving air" is ancient
blow - in the sense of "explode" or (blow-up) 1590s,
blow - in the sense of "taking a punch" is from 17th century
blow - in these sense "explosive outburst" is first recorded in 1809
blow - in the sense of "squandering your money" is first seen in 1874
blow - in the sense "depart suddenly" (blow out of here) is from 1902
blow - in the sense of "blow-by-blow" is from 1921
blow - in the sense of "perform fellatio" is first documented in 1933
blow - in the sense of "enlargement from a photograph" (blow-up) is attested by 1945
The more generic a word is, the more meanings it tends to accumulate. It is like the word run which has acquired hundreds of new meanings in the 20th century, and has become the English word with the most different meanings (about 700).
My guess is that the meaning of "starting" began with the idea of pulling a cord to start a motor, or with the idea of pulling out of a stationary position. After a while it just took on a life of its own. But that is a guess, as I can't find any reference that confirms that idea.
It's like the word "tire". How many English speakers know that the idea was that it was "attire" as in clothing for a car.
Quote: pacomartin
blow - in the sense of "perform fellatio" is first documented in 1933.
I've always wondered about that one. It would seem to me that "suck job" would be the more appropriate term. My apologies to George Carlin, who I think I'm stealing this observation from.
