Cooperation Game II
Poll
 | 23 votes (69.69%) | ||
| | 3 votes (9.09%) | ||
| | 4 votes (12.12%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.03%) | ||
| | 3 votes (9.09%) | ||
| | 2 votes (6.06%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.03%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.03%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 4 votes (12.12%) |
33 members have voted
This round, if we were all share, a single person (captain) could "agree" then steal and take all the money for his team. This single-point-of-failure (not failure from the POV of the stealers, of course) of any one team is a vulnerability that makes that strategy unworkable, at least for these sets of rules.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: UKMarkJust for the record I'm in for the pooling of funds, just want to know/have a say where it's goes.
Can someone confirm this: If we all SHARE we all lose OR if we all SHARE we ALL win??
I know if we all STEAL no one wins and
If x teams SHARE and x teams STEAL the STEAL teams share the $10 prize
However if "we all SHARE we all win" then surely all we need to do is all SHARE all the time meaning the $10 pot is split between all teams every round which maximises what we can get from the Wizard's pockets (which seems to be the aim)
We are relying on all teams cooperating but isn't that the name of the game :-)
On top of that if we all agree to all share all the time and we're pooling the proceeds at the end then what is the point of playing further rounds?
This is just opening rounds. The rules are going to change (expected to anyway) each round. We don't know what's planned or what may develop; some changes may be conditional on what happens in previous rounds.Teams and alliances change every round.
Keep in mind that Wizard is a huge fan of Survivor, and is interested in human nature. Also that many people playing seek an edge for a living, and the rules have been set up to allow for duplicity and collusion.
People may or may not be telling the truth about pooling afterwards. May or may not be telling the truth about their vote. May or may not have hidden alliances.
It is two separate things to pool winnings among all share and steal teams each round, and to then pool whatever that amount is into a group bet. I don't know if that's clear yet to everyone. The first part is essential for maximum Wizard coin receipt; the second is almost irrelevant.
Wizard is tracking amounts awarded by individual names. If your team went "share", your members are now trusting that the others who "stole" in the end will follow through. That's why the "share" rotates, to try and strategically spread that risk and encourage the follow-through.
IMO: The group should insist on knowing who among them are committed to share or steal pooling (SOOPOO strategy, which may adjust in reaction to rule changes) . This information should NOT be available to the Wizard, because it will figure into team composition in future rounds. The group needs to identify who is not trying to eliminate them from some or all of the money down the line. However, the rules allow people to lie about it, so I'm not sure there's much point in trying to track it.
If people want to try anyway, I am willing to maintain a database (list) of commitments that I will NOT share with the Wizard. However, I will commit to releasing that database to players during the game for optimal strategy, and in the thread once the game is declared over. So people probably want to be truthful if such a database is agreed to and they volunteer their status . All via PM.
Or someone else of the group's choosing can have that duty. There are several credible people who come to mind.
I'll be happy to contribute my current position to your database, but since the rules change every round it's tough to commit to anything more than one round.
This round there are very few votes, so publishing who voted steal early will expose anyone that is potentially colluding with wizard or just trying to burn the house down.
So far in round 2 I have seen:
Team 1 = steal
Team 4 = steal
We have already rejected the romes strategy... I guess it's on team 2 to vote share under the sopoo strategy, but that means Axel is still at 0 with two consecutive share votes.
Did anyone invite ZK to this game? This game would have been more fun with ZK.
Quote: prozemaOne other thing worth mentioning is that I have bet on which bird will fly off a fence first. I think we should pool and make one of the big time APs go take a couple spins on Megabucks.
I like the way you're thinking. Agree.
Quote: AxelWolfRe-look at Djatc's vote I think you missed something.
I checked it and recorded it correctly.
So this was kinda my delima... If Axel wanted to be Axel, he could vote STEAL and 'screw the system'. I'm sure he won't, but perhaps next round it's up to someone not as 'noble' as Axel and they could screw the group... So if I vote share to ensure there are Steal and Share votes, don't we win the prize pool no matter what (assuming we're pooling)???Quote: prozema...So far in round 2 I have seen:
Team 1 = steal
Team 4 = steal
We have already rejected the romes strategy... I guess it's on team 2 to vote share under the sopoo strategy, but that means Axel is still at 0 with two consecutive share votes.
Did anyone invite ZK to this game? This game would have been more fun with ZK.
I also haven't heard ANYTHING in this thread from ANYONE else on team #7 (Jufo81, SOOPOO, onenickelmiracle). I'd like to do what the team desires! ...but will turn in a vote by end of day today to ensure not missing the deadline.
p.s. I agree, it would have been fun with ZK =P.
Quote: RomesSo this was kinda my delima... If Axel wanted to be Axel, he could vote STEAL and 'screw the system'. I'm sure he won't, but perhaps next round it's up to someone not as 'noble' as Axel and they could screw the group... So if I vote share to ensure there are Steal and Share votes, don't we win the prize pool no matter what (assuming we're pooling)???
I also haven't heard ANYTHING in this thread from ANYONE else on team #7 (Jufo81, SOOPOO, onenickelmiracle). I'd like to do what the team desires! ...but will turn in a vote by end of day today to ensure not missing the deadline.
p.s. I agree, it would have been fun with ZK =P.
I was in a spot between your strategy (in soopoo's absence) and my teams preferences. The best thing I can offer to offset the axel factor is that I will personally share any win I have with you for round two if your team makes the share vote in round two and you don't screw me in a later round.
I have to keep reminding myself that we are talking about 2-6 nickels right now. It it stays there I'm of the mind to pool and make a bet or if it's not worth that, just drop it in a red kettle.
Oh I'm under the full assumption any "winnings" I have at the end of the game will be:Quote: prozemaI was in a spot between your strategy (in soopoo's absence) and my teams preferences. The best thing I can offer to offset the axel factor is that I will personally share any win I have with you for round two if your team makes the share vote in round two and you don't screw me in a later round.
I have to keep reminding myself that we are talking about 2-6 nickels right now. It it stays there I'm of the mind to pool and make a bet or if it's not worth that, just drop it in a red kettle.
1) Not worth even cashing out (so something like MAYBE $5).
2) I know myself and at least a good handful of others are interested in pooling the results to try to parlay it up to something a bit more real.
I'm going to do what team 7 wants to do, but if I don't hear anything at all, then I'm going to do what I think would guarantee the group the prize pool money. Your team voted STEAL, correct?
Quote: RomesOh I'm under the full assumption any "winnings" I have at the end of the game will be:
1) Not worth even cashing out (so something like MAYBE $5).
2) I know myself and at least a good handful of others are interested in pooling the results to try to parlay it up to something a bit more real.
I'm going to do what team 7 wants to do, but if I don't hear anything at all, then I'm going to do what I think would guarantee the group the prize pool money. Your team voted STEAL, correct?
Yes, I submitted a steal vote for team 4.
Quote: AyecarumbaI think SooPoo's gone up the river (on a cruise)... hopefully not sending all of us down the river.
No cruise yet. I just had to do one of my delightful 16 hour shifts. Since Mike has switched the teams my plan of rotating all the teams so each person will lose once might not work. I am asking Romes as our captain to submit share, and every other team can submit steal. Easy Peasy.
Sounds good to me. The only feedback from the team wins, SHARE it is!Quote: SOOPOONo cruise yet. I just had to do one of my delightful 16 hour shifts. Since Mike has switched the teams my plan of rotating all the teams so each person will lose once might not work. I am asking Romes as our captain to submit share, and every other team can submit steal. Easy Peasy.
VOTE SUBMITTED
Quote: RSI have voted the same way my team has requested I vote.
Give us a hint... Does it start with an "s" and contain an "e"?
Quote: prozemaGive us a hint... Does it start with an "s" and contain an "e"?
It neither starts with an “s” nor contains an “e”.
Quote: SOOPOONo cruise yet. I just had to do one of my delightful 16 hour shifts. Since Mike has switched the teams my plan of rotating all the teams so each person will lose once might not work. I am asking Romes as our captain to submit share, and every other team can submit steal. Easy Peasy.
Quote: RomesSounds good to me. The only feedback from the team wins, SHARE it is!
VOTE SUBMITTED
Wasn't it team 2's turn to share this round due to rotation and every other team votes steal? Since we voluntereed to share this round every other team captain can now simply steal.
For me two share rounds already and $0 pocketed :(
Quote: beachbumbabs
This is just opening rounds. The rules are going to change (expected to anyway) each round. We don't know what's planned or what may develop; some changes may be conditional on what happens in previous rounds.Teams and alliances change every round.
Keep in mind that Wizard is a huge fan of Survivor, and is interested in human nature. Also that many people playing seek an edge for a living, and the rules have been set up to allow for duplicity and collusion.
Since you brought up Survivor, which I also watch, one thing that fans have criticized about the show is that the producers often change the rules on a whim. They often switch up the tribes (like here) but also add key rule changes like the final four fire-making twist added two seasons ago. The problem is that the players should know the rules of the game they are playing and it makes successful strategizing difficult if changes are introduced mid-game. Therefore I am not a huge fan about the fact that the rules can change anytime with this game either. In order to create a strategy isn't it essential that you know the game you are playing?
Quote: SOOPOONo cruise yet. I just had to do one of my delightful 16 hour shifts. Since Mike has switched the teams my plan of rotating all the teams so each person will lose once might not work. I am asking Romes as our captain to submit share, and every other team can submit steal. Easy Peasy.
Romes vs Axel = Axel loses. Why?
I personally had 100% confidence Axel would have voted "Share". But now it does not matter...
Quote: Jufo81Since you brought up Survivor, which I also watch, one thing that fans have criticized about the show is that the producers often change the rules on a whim. They often switch up the tribes (like here) but also add key rule changes like the final four fire-making twist added two seasons ago. The problem is that the players should know the rules of the game they are playing and it makes successful strategizing difficult if changes are introduced mid-game. Therefore I am not a huge fan about the fact that the rules can change anytime with this game either. In order to create a strategy isn't it essential that you know the game you are playing?
Good point. You don't want to think you are playing Monopoly and be told you have actually been playing Life all along. ;)
Yes, it is true that during Round 1 we don't know the rules for Round 2 through 4. This is a more challenging game, requiring you to re-evaluate and adapt new strategies before each new round.
It is a bit similar to tournament poker, where your table will be periodically (and unpredictably) broken up and you will go to new tables -where the difference in the new mix of players and playing styles may require you to make massive changes in your poker strategy.
For those of you whining and complaining because you can't handle a complex game like this that requires adaptive strategies, I suggest you simply lie down and let the predators eat you.
Quote: billryanImagine going thru life thinking you are playing with a full deck only to find out there are really 54 cards in it.
54 cards are BETTER than playing with 52. ;)
Quote: NathanIsn't 54 cards a full deck of cards?
Oh my.
Quote: prozemaOh my.
I edited my post. You can see why I love the edit button so much I metaphorically hug it and even included it in my signature. ;)
Quote: Jufo81Wasn't it team 2's turn to share this round due to rotation and every other team votes steal? Since we voluntereed to share this round every other team captain can now simply steal.
For me two share rounds already and $0 pocketed :(
Team 2 no longer exists as initially published. Mike changed up the teams. So I picked my own team to be the least controversial to be the 'loser' this round. I appreciate that the group is trusting my judgment. Thanks.
Quote: AyecarumbaTeam 3 has voted, and the team vote will reflect the majority. Interestingly, not all the members will be pooling.
How do you know that? You didn't ask that I saw. Also, people are allowed to lie. I expect a rush of people who suddenly decide to pool towards the end, or say, yeah, I lied.
Quote: SOOPOOTeam 2 no longer exists as initially published. Mike changed up the teams. So I picked my own team to be the least controversial to be the 'loser' this round. I appreciate that the group is trusting my judgment. Thanks.
Just so I am clear, I am in no means questioning your judgement or integrity. If others pick you to do something with our winnings, I am fine with that.
Having one person making the only decision is not cooperating. That's called following, not cooperating.
It's a game. A game that seems to be evolving from the original. I think this should be approached on a team level, not as a group, but who knows...
Enjoy the cruise.I've heard lots of good things about river cruising.
Quote: billryanJust so I am clear, I am in no means questioning your judgement or integrity. If others pick you to do something with our winnings, I am fine with that.
Having one person making the only decision is not cooperating. That's called following, not cooperating.
It's a game. A game that seems to be evolving from the original. I think this should be approached on a team level, not as a group, but who knows...
Enjoy the cruise.I've heard lots of good things about river cruising.
Look at the bright side. If something goes south, we all know whose fault it is.
Soopoo has been a good king so far.
We can revolt later. Maybe on the 4th.
I’m just kidding, of course. Don’t do that. Unless you want to. But you shouldn’t.
There's a chance I would choose to steal if I felt strongly enough about a situation where I wanted to chastise a player.
p.s. I know some people are not too excited this time due to the team situation as it's not generating enough controversy. But I want to thank The Wizard for doing this for us. Obviously, the cost is minimal but it's also probably a bit time consuming with tallying the votes and stuff.
Quote: gordonm888This game is broken up into segments, with announced rules for each segment at the beginning of the segment.
Yes, it is true that during Round 1 we don't know the rules for Round 2 through 4. This is a more challenging game, requiring you to re-evaluate and adapt new strategies before each new round.
It is a bit similar to tournament poker, where your table will be periodically (and unpredictably) broken up and you will go to new tables -where the difference in the new mix of players and playing styles may require you to make massive changes in your poker strategy.
The difference is that in tournament poker you know beforehand that those changes are going to happen and that you need to adapt your strategy accordingly. It's not like the fundamental rules of the game itself are changed in the middle of the tournament.
In TV show Survivor (I am mentioning Survivor because this game was compared to that show) there was a situation a couple of seasons ago where a strong player would have been voted out by the majority in control but the production interfered and gave him unfair advantages multiple times which allowed him to beat the majority and win the game. That kind of rigging becomes a problem if the organizer of the game can change the rules however they wish.
Quote: gordonm888
For those of you whining and complaining because you can't handle a complex game like this that requires adaptive strategies, I suggest you simply lie down and let the predators eat you.
LOL, so far this game has had close to zero complexity. The original setup and communal strategy has led to a situation where it is impossible for any single player to strategize. So far neither of my two votes have even mattered so it's like the game hasn't even started for me. I do hope that there will be some major twist to make this game more interesting to play - and to increase complexity.
Somthing like that would be interesting.Quote: RSMake it so we can’t communicate. If someone tries to communicate with someone else, they can be turned in. The reward for turning in a vagrant is their portion of their loot and/or the vagrant is exiled from the game.
I kinda liked the idea of having to vote someone out for 2 weeks or whatever. Or we vote to steal players earned money. And even a vote who gets the money. There would be lots of campaigning going on.
Quote: billryanJust so I am clear, I am in no means questioning your judgement or integrity. If others pick you to do something with our winnings, I am fine with that.
Having one person making the only decision is not cooperating. That's called following, not cooperating.
It's a game. A game that seems to be evolving from the original. I think this should be approached on a team level, not as a group, but who knows...
Enjoy the cruise.I've heard lots of good things about river cruising.
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's as if it is Soopoo vs Wizard, and no one else matters. No cooperation, no fun here. JUST DO AS SOOPOO SAYS to maximize the $7.50!
Last cooperation game, Wizard threw out a lot more cash. Let's see if we can cooperate into goading him to invest more, then we tip him upside down and shake him till we have all his money.Quote: SM777Couldn't have said it better myself. It's as if it is Soopoo vs Wizard, and no one else matters. No cooperation, no fun here. JUST DO AS SOOPOO SAYS to maximize the $7.50!
Quote: OnceDearLast cooperation game, Wizard threw out a lot more cash. Let's see if we can cooperate into goading him to invest more, then we tip him upside down and shake him till we have all his money.
I can't speak for everyone, but I would imagine it's less about the cash, and more about the possibility of fun and camaraderie. I didn't join to get rich or anything, if I saw 1¢ from it, okay. I joined to have some fun after missing out on the first game.
At this point I'm just doing what soopoo doesn't want to make it interesting for myself. Because soopoo saying "do this!" and 40 people doing it blindly isn't fun.
That's what you say $:o)Quote: SM777At this point I'm just doing what soopoo doesn't want to make it interesting for myself.
Quote: SM777I can't speak for everyone, but I would imagine it's less about the cash, and more about the possibility of fun and camaraderie. I didn't join to get rich or anything, if I saw 1¢ from it, okay. I joined to have some fun after missing out on the first game.
At this point I'm just doing what soopoo doesn't want to make it interesting for myself. Because soopoo saying "do this!" and 40 people doing it blindly isn't fun.
That is why the idea/plan was thought of, and why counting on everyone to vote "share" won't work.
And, in this current round (which is Round #2, Nathan) about 80% of us are not even allowed to cast a vote with Wizard.
Let's hope that the thick plottens in Round#3.
