Thread Rating:

EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 433
  • Posts: 25272
November 16th, 2011 at 5:07:17 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

but I agree the past is over and doen with,



So lets just forget it, right? Life doesn't work that way,
fortunately.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Garnabby
Garnabby
Joined: Aug 14, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 197
November 16th, 2011 at 6:06:18 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

So lets just forget it, right? Life doesn't work that way, fortunately.



And you were the "wrascally" guy who wanted the WW2-Germans to just forget about Hitler's lattermost "ambitions"? And ultimately, by inference now, to have us all just make the most of the present.
Why bet at all, if you can be sure? Anyway, what constitutes a "good bet"? - The best slots-game in town; a sucker's edge; or some gray-area blackjack-stunts? (P.S. God doesn't even have to exist to be God.)
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 433
  • Posts: 25272
November 16th, 2011 at 6:22:58 PM permalink
Quote: Garnabby

And you were the "wrascally" guy who wanted the WW2-Germans to just forget about Hitler's lattermost "ambitions"?



What are you talking about?
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Garnabby
Garnabby
Joined: Aug 14, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 197
November 16th, 2011 at 6:26:52 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

This is the same defense the German's used after WWII. Hey,
don't blame us, it was those wascally Nazi's that did all the
damage, we had no idea what was going on.



P.S. Maybe, "Posting doesn't build character, it reveals it."
Why bet at all, if you can be sure? Anyway, what constitutes a "good bet"? - The best slots-game in town; a sucker's edge; or some gray-area blackjack-stunts? (P.S. God doesn't even have to exist to be God.)
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 433
  • Posts: 25272
November 16th, 2011 at 6:31:14 PM permalink
Quote: Garnabby

This is the same defense the German's used after WWII. Hey,
don't blame us, it was those wascally Nazi's that did all the
damage, we had no idea what was going on.



Thats what the modern Church is saying. Don't blame them,
it was the 'old church' that did all the damage. But they claim
that Jesus runs the Church, the Pope is god's representitve
on earth. How can they make such monumental 'mistakes'
if god is telling them what to do.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 417
November 16th, 2011 at 6:59:48 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I've no idea what Bob said, as I have him blocked (handy feature, that one), but I agree the past is over and doen with, and it makes no sense to blame a good man like the late Pope John Paul II, or for that matter you, for what happened then, mistake or deliberate policy.

Howvere, recently a young man's been raked over the coals for failing to do enough to stop a pedophile. The Catholic Church has its own problmes there, much mreo recent. So I would like to ask: of those priests and other Church officials who knew or suspected anything about pedophiles withing their ranks, how many reported their findings or suspicions to the police?



Doesn't that put the confessional right in the middle of that "priest-penitent privilege" red herring? What are the origins and philosophical legitimacy of that practice? Is it as simple as being about maintaining the "insurmountable wall of Church-State separation"?
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
November 16th, 2011 at 7:11:49 PM permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpent

Doesn't that put the confessional right in the middle of that "priest-penitent privilege" red herring? What are the origins and philosophical legitimacy of that practice?



The privilege? That confession couldn't be carried out without it. Same as psychotherapy. I don't see anything wrong there.

Quote:

Is it as simple as being about maintaining the "insurmountable wall of Church-State separation"?



The separation of church adn state is supposed to protect both entities from each other. But the members of the various religious are still subject to the authority of the state. So a pedophile ought to eb arrested and tried, and if convicted sent to prison, whether or not he is a priest. and the church should cooperate witht he authorites, whether or not it piles on some other sort of pennance on top of a prison sentence.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
November 17th, 2011 at 4:36:27 AM permalink
I am at the National Catholic Youth Conferance in Indianapolis so I'm not able to respond to EvenBob but suffice it to say now that his post is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Read any serious history about that period and the myths and untruths Bob writes about will be exposed. No one is saying atrocities were not committed but Bob's account is not true!
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 417
November 17th, 2011 at 7:47:52 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

(priest-penitent) privilege? That confession couldn't be carried out without it. Same as psychotherapy. I don't see anything wrong there.

The separation of church and state is supposed to protect both entities from each other. But the members of the various religions are still subject to the authority of the state. So a pedophile ought to be arrested and tried, and if convicted sent to prison, whether or not he is a priest. and the church should cooperate with the authorites, whether or not it piles on some other sort of penance on top of a prison sentence.



So there should not be priest-penitent privilege in just the case of suspected pedophilia? What about murder, theft or terrorism?

My understanding of CSS is that it helps protect individuals from the use of State power to enforce religious tenets and other diverse "mitzvot", such as statements of faith and sabbath-keeping.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
November 17th, 2011 at 8:09:39 AM permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpent

So there should not be priest-penitent privilege in just the case of suspected pedophilia? What about murder, theft or terrorism?



Doctor-patient privilege, including that for psychotherapy, can be breached if/when the doctor suspects a crime was or is about to be committed. For example, an ER physician treating a child with an unusual number of injuries may call the authorities to report a suspicion of child abuse.

But that's not entirely material here. I'm sure many of the cases of child molestation that were done by priests weren't found out at the confessional. No excuses there.

Quote:

My understanding of CSS is that it helps protect individuals from the use of State power to enforce religious tenets and other diverse "mitzvot", such as statements of faith and sabbath-keeping.



It does that. It also keeps the state from dictating what the Church may or may not do, within limits. For example, while in Mexico divorce is realtively easy and remarriage is possible legally, the state does not compel any church to perform marriages of divorced individuals. But of course if a religion wanted to practice human sacrifice, that would be murder and should be prosecuted accordingly.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

  • Jump to: