2020 Election
Quote: EvenBobThat's why why Trump said with
such confidence that as soon
as the they were done auditing,
he would release the returns, He
knows the audits never end even
for a day
If someone were to pay you a dollar
a second, every second, in 11 days
you would have a million dollars.
You know how long till you had
a billion? About 30 years. That's
the difference between a million
and a billion.
And Trump is a multi billionaire
with money constantly moving.
Of course the audit never ends.
More nonsense from you.
Financial statements represent a point in time - money is somewhere (not moving) for that second. Every public company in the world has money moving constantly, but can and has produced financial statements, and audits do not go on continuously. Learn something about accounting before spouting nonsensical drivel.
Quote: rsactuaryand audits do not go on continuously.
For billionaires like Trump they
do. Some part, or multiple parts
of his giant organization are
always under audit.
Quote: rsactuaryand audits do not go on continuously.
For billionaires like Trump they
do. Some part, or multiple parts
of his giant organization are
always under audit.
Quote: darkozPeople have dreamed about a flat rate for years.
How much?
Lets say you go with 20% for everyone. Then the rich get lots of savings. But those now paying lower than 20% get higher taxes. Not gonna work.
How about flat rate at its lowest level. Rich would love that. Only the poorest tax payers would remain the same. But the country would also have a lot less income. Government programs both left and right would suffer. Not gonna happen
And yes the extreme poor get handouts to survive. Regardless of tax rates handouts are not considered income. Gov doesn't tax Medicaid or food stamps or cash EBT. Would kinda be ass backward. Here is money from the gov to help. Oh hand it back for taxes?
I suppose you could lower everyone across the board
That would not make a flat tax just adjusted levels for everyone and again the gov would raise a lot less money.
Hmmm, what to do?
What to do? Cut the ~60% which is a waste.
Quote: rsactuaryMore nonsense from you.
Financial statements represent a point in time - money is somewhere (not moving) for that second. Every public company in the world has money moving constantly, but can and has produced financial statements, and audits do not go on continuously. Learn something about accounting before spouting nonsensical drivel.
Financial Statements <> Tax Returns. Look at AMZN. Shows billions in profit on the last financial statement, shows zero taxable income.
The IRS continuously audits big payers like Trump. That is how they keep everyone honest and keep the money flowing. Of course, eventually taxes for some year are done being audited, but the rest are.
Look at it even on a state level. Rush Limbaugh gets audited by NYS every stinking year even though he has not lived there in about 20 years and doesn't even file there anymore! They make him prove he did not set foot in NY because they want to tax him for that portion of his income since he "worked" there that day. He talks about it on the air from time to time.
Quote: rsactuary.....and audits do not go on continuously.
In New York, where the State is $70 billion in debt, and they need every penny the can get, they do.
State auditors here, continuously examine everyone’s returns, and even the smallest error is caught.
I've twice received demands for payment of small amounts, from errors made three years earlier.
They can demand payment for taxes as far back as twenty years.
The round-up.
of investigations
Yippee kay yay.
Quote:Oversight of the administration's family separation policy
Former acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker’s appointment, his involvement in the Mueller investigation, and his conversations with Trump and involvement with World Patent Marketing
Voting rights and Department of Justice actions on voter ID, census cases
Easing of sanctions on companies linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska
Trump's national emergency declaration
Trump's interference in Time Warner merger
Threats to relocate migrants to sanctuary cities
Reports that the president said he would pardon acting Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kevin McAleenan if he illegally closed the southern border to migrants
The administration's decision to stop defending the Affordable Care Act in court
Reports that the Citizenship and Immigration Services Ombudsman was failing to carry out statutory duties to help those applying for legal immigration programs
White House security clearances
Inclusion of a citizenship question on the 2020 census
Delayed back pay for federal workers impacted by the government shutdown
Michael Cohen hush-money payments
Education Secretary Betsy DeVos' efforts to replace her agency's acting inspector general
Transfer of nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia
Communications between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump
Michael Cohen's claims that Trump was improperly inflating financial statements
Interior Secretary David Bernhardt's schedules
Use of private email accounts by Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump and other White House officials, and use of messaging apps like WhatsApp
Gag orders on White House staff
Title X gag rule regulatory review process
Potential lobbying conflicts of interest involving Environmental Protection Agency head Andrew Wheeler
Interior Department's handling of FOIA requests
Abandoning plan to move FBI HQ building from Washington to suburban location
Trump Administration’s response to hurricanes in Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands
Whether lawyers for Trump and his family obstructed committee's Russia probe
Trump's personal finances, including loans from Deutsche Bank
Use of intelligence to justify building a wall at the southern border
Communications between Putin and Trump
Trump administration's use of user fees generated by the Affordable Care Act
Rule on short-term insurance plans
The president's personal and business tax returns
How the administration is spending user fees generated by the ACA
How HHS is caring for children impacted by the Trump family separation policy
EPA clean air rollbacks
EPA political appointees blocking release of a chemical study
EPA rollback of policies that reduce greenhouse gas emissions to address climate change
EPA political appointee steering litigation to benefit former client
EPA Officials ties to Utility Air Regulator Group
Communications between Putin and Trump
Trump administration's failure to produce Russian sanctions report
Trump's personal finances, including loans from Deutsche Bank
Trump administration's failure to produce Russian sanctions report
Reported ransom demand from North Korean government related to Otto Warmbier
HUD disbursement of Puerto Rico disaster relief funds
Firings of senior leadership at DHS
Reports of ICE tracking Trump protesters
Interior Secretary David Bernhardt's schedules
Agriculture/Interior Department decisions to further construction of a copper sulfite mine in Minnesota
Travel expenses of a political appointee in the Department of Veterans Affairs
Potential influence of several Mar-a-Lago members on VA decisions
Administration's decision to rescind Obama-era guidance on school discipline
Trump administration’s use of user fees generated by the Affordable Care Act
Trump Hotel lease of Old Post Office building
Public corruption, including potential violations of the Emoluments Clause of the U.S. Constitution, conspiracy to violate federal campaign and financial reporting laws, and other criminal misuses of official positions for personal gain;
Quote: rxwineThe Incumbent.
The round-up.
of investigations
Yippee kay yay.
Trump defenders like to say where there is smoke does not mean there is a fire.
But when thick black noxious smoke is pouring out of 29 open windows...
I think its time to dash for the emergency exit. There is a fire in there
Quote: rxwineThe Incumbent.
The round-up.
of investigations
Yippee kay yay.
Just a bunch of partisan witch-hunting.
Quote: AZDuffmanJust a bunch of partisan witch-hunting.
You can call the people in jail whatever you want. Witches is fine with me. Maybe more witches on the way.
next year. The guy who correctly
predicted the last 3 elections,
says Trump will get 56% of the
vote. Other well known predictors
are saying similar.
It’s worth noting that the Fair model is hardly alone in its forecast. Mark Zandi, the chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, has looked at 12 models, and Mr. Trump wins in all of them. Donald Luskin of Trend Macrolytics has reached the same conclusion in his examination of the Electoral College.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/27/opinion/trumps-formidable-2020-tailwind.html
Quote: EvenBobNYT says Trump will win bigly
next year. The guy who correctly
predicted the last 3 elections,
says Trump will get 56% of the
vote. Other well known predictors
are saying similar.
Donald could win, but ain’t no way in hell he’s getting 56% of the vote.
But you righties who believe this should definitely place bets that he’ll win the popular vote!
(And let’s not forget that EB’s “experts” he listens to predicted the GOP would hold the house by 15+ seats in 2018...)
Quote: EvenBobNYT says Trump will win bigly
next year. The guy who correctly
predicted the last 3 elections,
says Trump will get 56% of the
vote. Other well known predictors
are saying similar.
It’s worth noting that the Fair model is hardly alone in its forecast. Mark Zandi, the chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, has looked at 12 models, and Mr. Trump wins in all of them. Donald Luskin of Trend Macrolytics has reached the same conclusion in his examination of the Electoral College.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/27/opinion/trumps-formidable-2020-tailwind.html
I thought the NYT was fake liberal leaning news?
Why are you guys so confused?
So if Donny is going to get 56% in 2020, who knows what would have to happen between now and then to precipitate that.
Maybe y’all are expecting the Russians to just hack all the voting machines or something?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/white_house_watch_may24
LOLOLOL
Rasmussen is a sh**ty pollster, but it's definitely Donald's favorite because it always overestimates his popularity.
I don't think he'll be tweeting out this one...
Quote: ams288Rasmussen: Warren tops Trump 46% to 44% in hypothetical 2020 matchup
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/white_house_watch_may24
LOLOLOL
Rasmussen is a sh**ty pollster, but it's definitely Donald's favorite because it always overestimates his popularity.
I don't think he'll be tweeting out this one...
Many of those 46% would vote for Bill Cosby over Trump so that’s actually pathetic for Warren.
I would say the poll is about accurate at this point. The fearful thing for the Dem’s should be that they actually have candidates who Trump does better again.
What voter considers voting for Trump over certain candidates if he is this horrible person who has ruined America?
Quote: Gabes22Polls 17+ months out of a Presidential election are not reliable. Mostly because the issues and the occurrences that will shape the voting have not occurred as of yet. Polling data this far out IMO is more designed to shape public opinion than it is to reflect it
What is reliable? What is there that does reflect public opinion? I'll take whatever data is best at a given time over personal bias, which seems to be the only thing most people here can offer.
Quote: TomGWhat is reliable? What is there that does reflect public opinion? I'll take whatever data is best at a given time over personal bias, which seems to be the only thing most people here can offer.
Job approval rating
under 50%, odds are 1 term
Over 50%, odds are 2 terms
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/05/28/supreme-court-upholds-indiana-abortion-law-requiring-fetal-remains-be-buried-or-cremated/23735857/
2 part law:
Aborted fetuses must be buried and handled like a human being. Upheld
Abortion not allowed if the reason is race or gender or even disability.
So a woman finds out she is going to have a handicapped cripple, she must give birth and raise it.
That aspect of the law killed (aborted) at the lower courts and not taken up so its dead.
Its bad enough women might be forced to have a child but a handicapped one? (Then righties scream how they have to pay taxes for health care of a handicapped child and a mom forced to stay out of work to care for it smh)
Quote: darkozsmh
It's not gonna help.
Try theirs.
Quote: darkoz
Its bad enough women might be forced to have a child but a handicapped one? (Then righties scream how they have to pay taxes for health care of a handicapped child and a mom forced to stay out of work to care for it smh)
If she does not want a child then she should not let herself get pregnant.
Are you in favor of the part that does not allow it for race or gender?
Why is he even still running. He
draws 30 people to a rally on
a good day, and spends the rest
of his time apologizing for this
and that. What a loser, good thing
he married well.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/28/beto-orourke-senate-documentary/
Quote: darkozMike Pence signed abortion law shot down/victorious at same time
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/05/28/supreme-court-upholds-indiana-abortion-law-requiring-fetal-remains-be-buried-or-cremated/23735857/
2 part law:
Aborted fetuses must be buried and handled like a human being. Upheld
Abortion not allowed if the reason is race or gender or even disability.
So a woman finds out she is going to have a handicapped cripple, she must give birth and raise it.
That aspect of the law killed (aborted) at the lower courts and not taken up so its dead.
Its bad enough women might be forced to have a child but a handicapped one? (Then righties scream how they have to pay taxes for health care of a handicapped child and a mom forced to stay out of work to care for it smh)
Sad
No more separation of church and state as religious law becomes the law for atheists
and
Govt interference in our private lives
Quote: AZDuffmanIf she does not want a child then she should not let herself get pregnant.
If you don't want an abortion, do not get one.
Quote: FaceIf you don't want an abortion, do not get one.
If you (general) don't want or like guns, don't buy any.
Quote: RSIf you (general) don't want or like guns, don't buy any.
Only difference, 99.999% of gun owners are responsible before, during and after the decision to purchase a gun.
Can you say that about those who choose abortion?
Quote: AZDuffmanIf she does not want a child then she should not let herself get pregnant.
Are you in favor of the part that does not allow it for race or gender?
On a personal level no interesting enough.
However the issue is a woman has a right to choose what happens to her own body. And I don't have a right to interfere.
This issue we blabber about is who or what trumps the other. A womans right to choose vs. Rights of an as yet unborn non-citizen.
There is no easy solution in that neither side will ever be happy.
Quote: BozOnly difference, 99.999% of gun owners are responsible before, during and after the decision to purchase a gun.
Can you say that about those who choose abortion?
Damn I actually agree with you here.
Many women dont get to choose when they are impregnated.
There is rape as well as "accidents"
I agree the woman should have a choice to do abortion since its not like purchasing a gun where the gun owner knows every step of the way whats happening
Quote: AZDuffmanIf she does not want a child then she should not let herself get pregnant.
Are you in favor of the part that does not allow it for race or gender?
So what about a woman who was raped?
You blame her for getting pregnant?
She should not have ovulated that day I suppose?
Quote: darkoz
However the issue is a woman has a right to choose what happens to her own body. And I don't have a right to interfere.
Glad you are with me on not mandating vaccinations!
Society needs to determine when the fetus has rights. Moment of conception? 8 weeks? First heartbeat? 12 weeks? Viability outside the womb?
I am generally "pro abortion rights" but still am not sure where exactly I would draw the line.
Quote: AZDuffmanGlad you are with me on not mandating vaccinations!
Lol,
Glad you are with me not having government interference when it comes to abortion
Quote: SOOPOOI do not believe that rape should be a factor WHATSOEVER in determining whether abortion should be legal or not. If you believe abortion should be illegal I assume you do so because you believe the fetus to be a human being with ITS OWN rights. Its parent being a rapist should not factor into ITS rights.
Society needs to determine when the fetus has rights. Moment of conception? 8 weeks? First heartbeat? 12 weeks? Viability outside the womb?
I am generally "pro abortion rights" but still am not sure where exactly I would draw the line.
Agreed.
Victims of rape can suffer for years afterward. Compounding that with an unwanted offspring just seems cruel
To be clear, the fetus is not even guaranteed to be an American. If the mother moves to Canada or Europe or wherever its citizenship belongs to a different country.
Hard to fathom fighting for the constitution rights of someone not declared a US citizen yet.
Might as well fight for immigrants rights if thats the case
Those babies are going to take away jobs in 20 years arent they?
Quote: SOOPOOI do not believe that rape should be a factor WHATSOEVER in determining whether abortion should be legal or not. If you believe abortion should be illegal I assume you do so because you believe the fetus to be a human being with ITS OWN rights. Its parent being a rapist should not factor into ITS rights.
Society needs to determine when the fetus has rights. Moment of conception? 8 weeks? First heartbeat? 12 weeks? Viability outside the womb?
I am generally "pro abortion rights" but still am not sure where exactly I would draw the line.
The hard part is this. If you believe in science, you have to believe life begins at conception. So it becomes hard to draw a moral line.
My problem remains that a high abortion rate is a sign of a sickly society.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe hard part is this. If you believe in science, you have to believe life begins at conception. So it becomes hard to draw a moral line.
My problem remains that a high abortion rate is a sign of a sickly society.
The hard part is if you believe in science how is it that thousands of scientists discussion of global warming is not something you believe
Again it seems you only choose to believe in science when it suits your own personal beliefs
Thats not what science is about. If I believe the Earth is flat science tells me it is not regardless of how much I want it to be
Quote: darkozAgreed.
Victims of rape can suffer for years afterward. Compounding that with an unwanted offspring just seems cruel
To be clear, the fetus is not even guaranteed to be an American. If the mother moves to Canada or Europe or wherever its citizenship belongs to a different country.
Hard to fathom fighting for the constitution rights of someone not declared a US citizen yet.
Might as well fight for immigrants rights if thats the case
Those babies are going to take away jobs in 20 years arent they?
That's a bizarre post. I am FOR the woman being able to abort FOR ANY REASON early in a pregnancy. I just haven't defined "early" yet satisfactorily.
I am not minimizing the impact of rape on a woman. Either the fetus has rights or it doesn't.
If a woman has had consensual sex and in a separate incident was raped, how do you decide whether she should be allowed to abort the baby?
Does she need to "prove" she was raped or his her word good enough?
To me this is easy. If abortion is illegal there should be no "rape" exception. Fortunately I expect this to just be a moot discussion here in the USA.
Either we have bodily autonomy or we do not.
Mandatory vaccinations were referenced above. Great example. I don't have the slightest clue how somebody who can be anti-mandatory vaccine can also support telling a woman what to do with her body. I'm glad I don't have to reconcile those two very conflicting positions. Phew!
Quote: darkozThe hard part is if you believe in science how is it that thousands of scientists discussion of global warming is not something you believe
Because they have been wrong every step of the way. Because they have been caught fudging data. Because GW is not "science." It is a political agenda.
Quote:Again it seems you only choose to believe in science when it suits your own personal beliefs
Thats not what science is about. If I believe the Earth is flat science tells me it is not regardless of how much I want it to be
No, I believe it when it is proven and testable. I do not believe it when it is pushing a political agenda to steal my money and freedom.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe hard part is this. If you believe in science, you have to believe life begins at conception.
So an embryo that is 1/4 inch in size is the same as a human being?
In one hand I have a toddler named Billy. In the other I have a jar with 100 of those pre-six week embryos. I'm hanging both over a cliff and YOU get to decide which one I drop.
My question to you is: what kind of ice cream are you gonna buy Billy?
Quote: SteverinosSo an embryo that is 1/4 inch in size is the same as a human being?
Why not? The point is you cannot draw a line. Conception is the start. Everything else in the human starts from there.
Quote:In one hand I have a toddler named Billy. In the other I have a jar with 100 of those pre-six week embryos. I'm hanging both over a cliff and YOU get to decide which one I drop.
My question to you is: what kind of ice cream are you gonna buy Billy?
I don't walk near cliffs. I also do not play silly games. Prove me wrong that life begins at some other time.
Quote: SteverinosI get annoyed when people say abortion is a complex issue. It's not. It's simple.
Either we have bodily autonomy or we do not.
Mandatory vaccinations were referenced above. Great example. I don't have the slightest clue how somebody who can be anti-mandatory vaccine can also support telling a woman what to do with her body. I'm glad I don't have to reconcile those two very conflicting positions. Phew!
I’m interested in hearing what your determination is when an abortion should be legal or not?
3 months, 6 months, 9 months, in the tract toward birth, or at birth?
As your entire thought process is amazing to me, I honestly cant wait for your answer.
Quote: BozI’m interested in hearing what your determination is when an abortion should be legal or not?
3 months, 6 months, 9 months, in the tract toward birth, or at birth?
As your entire thought process is amazing to me, I honestly cant wait for your answer.
Here are my thoughts: that conversation and decision is between the woman and her doctor. It's none of my business.
I remember reading this story a few months back. It's heartbreaking. I'm not going to offer my thoughts on it and you don't have to read it, but honestly, it could change minds. At least, I hope it could.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/late-term-abortion-rape_n_5c630b8de4b0a8731aeabbd6
I personally can't think of a more clear and precise definition of personal freedom than possessing bodily autonomy. It's like...DUH.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhy not? The point is you cannot draw a line. Conception is the start. Everything else in the human starts from there.
You can't draw a line? Sure you can. I just did.
I'll ask again, what kind of ice cream are you going to buy Billy?
Quote: SteverinosHere are my thoughts: that conversation and decision is between the woman and her doctor. It's none of my business.
I remember reading this story a few months back. It's heartbreaking. I'm not going to offer my thoughts on it and you don't have to read it, but honestly, it could change minds. At least, I hope it could.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/late-term-abortion-rape_n_5c630b8de4b0a8731aeabbd6
I personally can't think of a more clear and precise definition of personal freedom than possessing bodily autonomy. It's like...DUH.
F that. You are sticking to your liberal views no matter what. Between a doctor and a woman?
So you are OK with killing a child born with 1 arm? If the doctor approves it?
How about a child at 2 years of age who seems slow. If that ok because a doctor gets s####d off by a mom doesn’t want the kid anymore approves it?
Again, what is the time in your mind StevO?
Come on, you have to have an opinion.
I have one. I’m anti abortion but it’s not the major issue to me because it’s a loser for the GOP.
Too many people are willing to find the outlying cases to defend it as an overall practice ignoring that 99% of abortions could be prevented by personal responsibility on both people F’ing.
Tough fact but abortion saves Tax Payers money because the statistics show the majority of abortions are by lower income women. And if the child is born into a 1 parent situation, it’s odds of being a successful contributor to society are decreased.
Since we are mostly gamblers here, shouldn’t we be pushing for the abortion of these potential children born to mostly uneducated, irresponsible parents?
Or is this about the 0.012 percent of abortions that are “rape and incest”?
Quote:The most significant accomplishment of Donald Trump’s presidency, thus far, has been the passage of his 2017 tax law. The new tax scheme has been criticized as being overly favorable to the rich while not aiding the working class.
A non-partisan group called the Congressional Research Service recently conducted a study on the effects of the measure. According to the group’s experts, the law has not positively affected the economy in any appreciable way.
Jane Gravelle and Donald Maples, policy experts from CRS, explained, “While evidence does indicate significant repurchases of shares, either from tax cuts or repatriated revenues, relatively little was directed to paying worker bonuses, which had been announced by some firms.”
While the bill has had a positive effect on the paychecks of management, workers have seen little change in their paychecks. Many may have received one-time bonuses, but have not see an increase in their regular pay. Gravelle and Maples continue, “Worker bonuses could also be a result of a tight labor market and attributed to the tax cut as a public relations move.”
The researchers were also alarmed by the lack of wage growth. The duo says, “In the absence of the tax cuts, wages should grow with the economy and wage rates should grow as the capital stock grows. In addition, tight labor markets resulting from the approach to full employment should have put upward pressure on wage rates in any case.”
https://hillreporter.com/report-trump-tax-law-having-negligible-effect-on-the-economy-37319
Quote: SteverinosSo an embryo that is 1/4 inch in size is the same as a human being?
For the purposes of Boz and Duffman sure is. If either of them are in an car accident, even if it's minor that causes a woman with a "human being" of a quarter inch to miscarry, they get sued for their last penny.
Quote: SOOPOOI do not believe that rape should be a factor WHATSOEVER in determining whether abortion should be legal or not. If you believe abortion should be illegal I assume you do so because you believe the fetus to be a human being with ITS OWN rights. Its parent being a rapist should not factor into ITS rights.
Some of the proposed laws are crazy enough that your wife or daughter could be raped, and if she were to have that illegal abortion she could be then charged with murder.
Quote: rxwineFor the purposes of Boz and Duffman sure is. If either of them are in an car accident, even if it's minor that causes a woman with a "human being" of a quarter inch to miscarry, they get sued for their last penny.
I wouldn't mind an explanation from one who holds their views. Answers lie in understanding.
Seems the biggest (only?) divide is where we believe life starts. None of us disagree that a newborn is a person, so that's cool. But lemme ask about the start so's I can understand.
Life begins at conception, the moment the egg is fertilized, and destroying it is akin to murder, as it is a person. OK, I disagree, but I at least understand. But as soon as I think further than the subject of politicized abortion, that whole faith falls apart.
A majority, that's greater than 50%, of all natural pregnancies end in self-induced abortion. The zygote was a little wack, mom's bio is a little off, whatever. Nature's metric is not met and *bloop*, the zygote is purged. I don't have a number on hand and I'm too f@#$ed to find one, but natural abortions are as frequent as actual births. Fact.
You ever mourn this? I don't mean planned and accepted pregnancies that end in miscarriage, that is definitively sorrowful and horrible. But the literal millions of "people" per year who "die" due to natural causes, has there ever been a single vigil? I ask because I'm hillfolk; most folks here, some women included, think they pee out of their vaginas. Any faith based view I've challenged is meant with stupor, they're clueless. So, out with civil folk, does this happen?
With my experience of this happening 0 times, it harms this claim that these are people dying, and not just a seed being tossed.
IVF sort of gives it a wailing, too. Most folk I know laud modern medicine's ability to create families, and very few will find a problem with a man or woman overcoming disability and accomplishing what is largely looked at as a person's greatest accomplishment and purpose (parenthood). But this war is one of numbers, and literal millions of "people" are either lost via the same natural process above, or, once past their use by date, are tossed in the incinerator. TWICE as many "people" are killed in this manner than are in elective abortions.
You ever mourn this?
This idea that life begins at conception to me is a non starter. The argument does not have logical consistency that I can see.. And let's not forget, this is an argument that is being used to permit the exertion of your will upon another persons' most critical and important part of their life. Those arguments especially must be nigh unassailable. This...this seems to fall apart at first look.
I'm up for being convinced otherwise.
