all of the chatter about a bubble causing the market to crash means nothing to a great many in the game
many are aggressively buying
stock market futures are up again today - unreal
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u-s-stock-futures-inch-higher-as-wall-street-looks-to-extend-winning-streak-in-november-b26c2fae?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqc3pwJHyBRjTm4OlVJwnKFOmNMKenJ6ZXotiOyhBvWo0dBA3tzizb1q&gaa_ts=6908aa12&gaa_sig=5VFpIZorsO_oCXE7IyLup_ylyuVCOvSIHYR2e8AbHi9GJaZ_pt52k33kplSiXEri__8JwtplrzFrRsODc0MDbg%3D%3D
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I've no way of knowing which way the next thousand point will swing, or even which way the next 10,000 points might swing, but I know, with certainty, which way the next 100% swing will be, and you have to be in it to win it.
Quote: DougGanderQuote: lilredrooster.
kinna interesting - to me anyway - google's AI response to the question of whether or not the investments in AI constitute a bubble that is likely to burst and cause a massive selloff - the arguments for and against:
"Arguments for an AI bubble
Unclear returns: A significant portion of companies are reportedly seeing zero return on their AI investments, despite large spending, notes Wikipedia.
High valuations: Some analysts and investors have likened the situation to the dot-com bubble, with concerns about the lofty valuations of some AI-related stocks.
Massive investment and debt: Companies are reportedly spending billions to stay at the forefront of AI, often taking on debt to do so, say The World Economic Forum and Wikipedia.
Risk of a crash: A sudden realization that the promised productivity gains won't materialize could cause a market crash, wiping out trillions in wealth, say The Guardian and The World Economic Forum.
Arguments against an AI bubble
Real economic growth: Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell has stated that AI is different from the dot-com bubble because it is a major source of current economic growth, according to CNBC.
Transformative technology: Unlike the dot-com era, AI is seen as a genuine technological revolution with the potential for widespread productivity gains across many industries.
Significant potential market size: AI has a massive potential market size, and its real benefits are already being seen in areas like supply chain optimization and manufacturing efficiency, say Trustnet and HBS Online.
Varied valuations: Not all AI stocks have high valuations; investors can find a wide range of valuations, including some that are much lower than during the dot-com boom, notes Yahoo Finance. "
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OK, I normally lurk here but I had to comment on this one.
First, google's AI is widely considered to be the worst on the market. It regularly hallucinates. It has been much ridiculed for its recommendations, such as to "only" eat one rock a day.
There are obvious problems with the comments cited such as "Unlike the dot-com era, AI is seen as a genuine technological revolution"-this is pure drivel. The internet was always seen as a major technological revolution.
Finally, obviously, google is a major beneficiary of AI hype and may well interfere with search queries directed toward establishing the existence of a bubble.
The issue with holding the major indices is not just whether they go up or down. The issue is that at the moment Nvidia and to a lesser extent the other big tech companies ARE the stock market for all practical purposes right now, so you might as well hold them or Nvidia alone for all the good your diversification is doing you.
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Are you suggesting we eat more than one rock per day?
They recommend a stock - RGTI that they claimed had a 25X upside.
Just for laughs, I check the stock, and it is down 12% this morning. It appears that not many buyers took advantage of the Special Alert.
RGTI aims to be a leader in the field of quantum computing, another area I know nothing about. It's bleeding resources, the price is in a steep decline, and it has many better-financed competitors. At best, it is a strongly speculative stock and not something I'd expect someone to tout as the next big thing.
Quote: billryanIf someone constantly calls for a market crash, they will eventually be right.
Bearish sentiment is a little more sophisticated than that. The tails of the distribution are fatter than they should be: this isn't something that evens out. And when there is a crash the payout can be huge: 20-100x. You don't even need to be right that often because of the asymmetry.
The difficulty is standing around losing small amounts of money while everyone else is making bank.
Quote: BigSlickremember that if you sell and have to pay Capital Gains taxes you made money. There are worse things
For now, "Stop Loss" is my favorite trade.
each to his own but -
no stop loss strategy for me
I will never EVER pay the Feds because I had a profit from investing (other than dividends - that's unfortunately unavoidable)
unless I need $ for personal reasons - and I need almost nothing beyond my pension and $ I have set aside for personal needs -
all of my investments are diversified funds intended for the long term with very few exceptions
as DougGander pointed out some of these funds may not be well diversified because of the high concentration in big tech
that's okay - I'll accept that risk
write a big check to the Feds because of stock market profits - ?
homey don't play that tune
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: BigSlickremember that if you sell and have to pay Capital Gains taxes you made money. There are worse things
For now, "Stop Loss" is my favorite trade.
each to his own but -
no stop loss strategy for me
I will never EVER pay the Feds because I had a profit from investing (other than dividends - that's unfortunately unavoidable)
unless I need $ for personal reasons - and I need almost nothing beyond my pension and $ I have set aside for personal needs -
all of my investments are diversified funds intended for the long term with very few exceptions
as DougGander pointed out some of these funds may not be well diversified because of the high concentration in big tech
that's okay - I'll accept that risk
write a big check to the Feds because of stock market profits - ?
homey don't play that tune
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You would rather never access any of the money you've saved over decades than give a bit of it to your Uncle Sam? Do I have that right?
Quote: billryanQuote: lilredroosterQuote: BigSlickremember that if you sell and have to pay Capital Gains taxes you made money. There are worse things
For now, "Stop Loss" is my favorite trade.
each to his own but -
no stop loss strategy for me
I will never EVER pay the Feds because I had a profit from investing (other than dividends - that's unfortunately unavoidable)
unless I need $ for personal reasons - and I need almost nothing beyond my pension and $ I have set aside for personal needs -
all of my investments are diversified funds intended for the long term with very few exceptions
as DougGander pointed out some of these funds may not be well diversified because of the high concentration in big tech
that's okay - I'll accept that risk
write a big check to the Feds because of stock market profits - ?
homey don't play that tune
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You would rather never access any of the money you've saved over decades than give a bit of it to your Uncle Sam? Do I have that right?
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yes
this way profit is made from older profit
the $ are insurance in case of a catastrophe
and for my heirs
if I had a taste for luxury goods the strategy wouldn't hold
but I have no such taste
my state and 41 out of 50 states also tax capital gains
a double whammy
if you have a stop loss the underlying strategy is this -
you believe it will go even lower
which of course you can't know for sure
and/or it won't go down and then bounce back up even higher than what you sold it at very quickly
which of course you can't know for sure
it is a kind of timing the market
I'm sure there are a very few who are either very good or very lucky at timing the market
I'm not one of those few
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Quote: billryanIf AI and Quantum Computing are the next gold rush, should we be looking for the next Levi Strauss?
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The anthropologist? Or the pants?
There is a difference. Coming home without an anthropologist is routine. Coming home without your pants is special!
billion dollar short bet against AI stocks not looking good right now:
"AI Overview
The "billion dollar short bet" against Palantir was made by Michael Burry, the investor made famous by the book and film The Big Short for predicting the 2008 housing crisis.
Through his hedge fund, Scion Asset Management, Burry disclosed in a recent regulatory filing (as of November 2025) that he held put options on approximately 5 million shares of Palantir stock, valued at around $912 million as of the end of the third quarter.
Key details of the bet:
Targeted AI Stocks: The bet was part of a larger, approximately $1.1 billion wager against two major AI companies, Palantir and Nvidia, signaling Burry's belief that there is an "AI bubble" that will soon burst.
Put Options: By purchasing put options, Burry is positioned to profit if the stock price of Palantir declines below a certain strike price before the options expire.
CEO Reaction: Palantir CEO Alex Karp publicly called Burry "bats--t crazy" for shorting his company's stock, noting that both Palantir and Nvidia have been highly successful and profitable in the AI space.
Current Status: As of recent reports, Burry's trade is likely underwater, as Palantir's stock price has generally remained higher than during the third quarter when the options were initiated.
This high-profile bet has sparked significant market discussion about the potentially overheated valuations of AI-related stocks. "
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Bonuses are significant to the NYC economy, as they tend to be spent and not saved.
This year, the average trader bonus is estimated to be $250,000 plus.
Quote: 100xOddsWell, just sold everything in my taxable acct and went all cash.
Gambling on a market crash soon.
Which means:
Wave at me in your rear view mirror when the s&p500 jumps another 1000 pts by end of year as I'm crying in the corner curled up in a ball position?
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A month later after I sold everything I'm still back at about the same point with this current downtrend
Quote: 100xOddsWell, just sold everything in my taxable acct and went all cash.
Gambling on a market crash soon.
Which means:
Wave at me in your rear view mirror when the s&p500 jumps another 1000 pts by end of year as I'm crying in the corner curled up in a ball position?
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A month later after I sold everything I'm still back at about the same point with this current downtrend
Edit:
Can't believe 4 weeks have passed already.
Time flies
Quote: lilredrooster.
billion dollar short bet against AI stocks not looking good right now:
"AI Overview
The "billion dollar short bet" against Palantir was made by Michael Burry, the investor made famous by the book and film The Big Short for predicting the 2008 housing crisis.
I would not bet against Palantir just because they are run by a lot of former military, CIA, and politicians. Those people tend to attract the big government contracts.
there was a lot of concern about tech stocks being overvalued in January
the tech heavy Nasdaq is up a little over 19% ytd
a great many investors (including me) see buying stocks or funds as their only way to make a decent profit
most do not sell short
of course many will sell to take profits and/or get out to avoid a potential great loss if they think a big downturn is soon coming
I would speculate that "if" there is a beat down it won't be long term such as the dot.com beat down
that's my two cents worth -
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Quote: lilredrooster.
there was a lot of concern about tech stocks being overvalued in January
the tech heavy Nasdaq is up a little over 19% ytd
a great many investors (including me) see buying stocks or funds as their only way to make a decent profit
most do not sell short
of course many will sell to take profits and/or get out to avoid a potential great loss if they think a big downturn is soon coming
I would speculate that "if" there is a beat down it won't be long term such as the dot.com beat down
that's my two cents worth -
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Agree. I made a couple of decent “sell and buy the dip” trades this week in semis because investors appear wary of an AI bubble and are just waiting for it to burst. I don’t see that as likely but the volatility is frustrating.
My plan is to be completely out again before Black Friday. Netflix is going to split and I will probably go long. Everything else will sit in cash until next year. Some cap gains are going to suck but that’s because my cash account did well.
Quote: DougGanderPalantir is trading at 220x earnings, it would have to have a stellar run to match that. Its European growth is lagging and it will face political opposition everywhere in the longer term, and public hostility. The best case scenario is that it matches its current price,there's literally no upside.
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If it was trading at a silly 110x earnings would you have said the same thing? As its price doubled with no increase in earnings? My point is that your post makes sense IF the stock market made sense.
The fact is 1/2 of the investors think Palantir should be worth more than its current price, 1/2 less. I have Palantir in the WoV portfolio and I think it’s already a 5 bagger.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: DougGanderPalantir is trading at 220x earnings, it would have to have a stellar run to match that. Its European growth is lagging and it will face political opposition everywhere in the longer term, and public hostility. The best case scenario is that it matches its current price,there's literally no upside.
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If it was trading at a silly 110x earnings would you have said the same thing? As its price doubled with no increase in earnings? My point is that your post makes sense IF the stock market made sense.
The fact is 1/2 of the investors think Palantir should be worth more than its current price, 1/2 less. I have Palantir in the WoV portfolio and I think it’s already a 5 bagger.
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In order to invest in a company as a value investor you need to be able to at least visualize a scenario where it exceeds its current valuation. I don't know what that would be. Even for Tesla which I am not a holder of, I can see how it might get to its insane current valuation in real life by dominating the latent robotaxi market or making robots themselves. I don't see any such paths for Palantir. It is what it is: it sells creepy data to the state and corps-not sure why that gets 220x more profitable in the future.
As with Tesla there is a significant downside in that the current regime is about as positive as you can get towards these type of organizations, and that is not likely to continue forever. There will likely be some kind of political backlash. If the US moves to anything like European regulation on this issue Palantir will have great difficulty doing anything.
You get a lot of tech bro types pumping up this type of stock. They don't seem very attached to the critical process, you listen to them and they list off an endless string of positives. That's not how reality works. How long they can go on pumping the stock I have no idea. But I'm not betting into that.
Palantir is getting a lot of attention because of the dude's big short bet
it will be very interesting to see what happens to the stock in the future
this is what it did on Friday - obviously many could care less about it being overvalued
On Friday, November 7, 2025, Palantir (PLTR) stock price increased by 1.65%, closing at $177.93 per share.
Key metrics for Palantir's performance on that day:
Closing Price: $177.93
Previous Close: $175.05
Change: Up $2.88 (1.65%)
Opening Price: $173.15
Day High: $178.70
Day Low: $168.91
Volume: Approximately 73.7 million shares traded
The stock stabilized and gained on Friday after experiencing a significant decline earlier in the week, following its earnings report and news of an investor betting against it.
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Quote: lilredrooster.
Palantir is getting a lot of attention because of the dude's big short bet
it will be very interesting to see what happens to the stock in the future
this is what it did on Friday - obviously many could care less about it being overvalued
On Friday, November 7, 2025, Palantir (PLTR) stock price increased by 1.65%, closing at $177.93 per share.
Key metrics for Palantir's performance on that day:
Closing Price: $177.93
Previous Close: $175.05
Change: Up $2.88 (1.65%)
Opening Price: $173.15
Day High: $178.70
Day Low: $168.91
Volume: Approximately 73.7 million shares traded
The stock stabilized and gained on Friday after experiencing a significant decline earlier in the week, following its earnings report and news of an investor betting against it.
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I'm not sure why you think the short-term fluctuations matter. Burry's housing short took 2-3 years to materialize. I would expect this to take longer.
Quote: DougGanderQuote: SOOPOOQuote: DougGanderPalantir is trading at 220x earnings, it would have to have a stellar run to match that. Its European growth is lagging and it will face political opposition everywhere in the longer term, and public hostility. The best case scenario is that it matches its current price,there's literally no upside.
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If it was trading at a silly 110x earnings would you have said the same thing? As its price doubled with no increase in earnings? My point is that your post makes sense IF the stock market made sense.
The fact is 1/2 of the investors think Palantir should be worth more than its current price, 1/2 less. I have Palantir in the WoV portfolio and I think it’s already a 5 bagger.
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In order to invest in a company as a value investor you need to be able to at least visualize a scenario where it exceeds its current valuation. I don't know what that would be. Even for Tesla which I am not a holder of, I can see how it might get to its insane current valuation in real life by dominating the latent robotaxi market or making robots themselves. I don't see any such paths for Palantir. It is what it is: it sells creepy data to the state and corps-not sure why that gets 220x more profitable in the future.
As with Tesla there is a significant downside in that the current regime is about as positive as you can get towards these type of organizations, and that is not likely to continue forever. There will likely be some kind of political backlash. If the US moves to anything like European regulation on this issue Palantir will have great difficulty doing anything.
You get a lot of tech bro types pumping up this type of stock. They don't seem very attached to the critical process, you listen to them and they list off an endless string of positives. That's not how reality works. How long they can go on pumping the stock I have no idea. But I'm not betting into that.
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As I’m reading this Palantir is my best stock of the day. Up nearly 10%. Its PE ratio is now over 260! As I said, and was proven true in just a day, if it can have a PE ratio of 220, why can’t it be a slightly sillier 260? Or tomorrow 300?
Just checked. It’s up 7.5 fold from when I bought. Will sell 20%, locking in a good profit, and keep the remaining 80% to eventually leave to my kids.
I repeat. You use the word ‘pumping’. I use the phrase ‘half the world thinks it should be worth a dollar more, half a dollar less’. If that wasn’t true, it wouldn’t be the price it is. You are just saying which half of the world you believe is correct. (I generally agree with you, but realize my own massive limitations on guessing which way any individual stock will go)
Quote: DougGander
I'm not sure why you think the short-term fluctuations matter. Burry's housing short took 2-3 years to materialize. I would expect this to take longer.
2 different sources saying he has ALREADY closed out of his position
and if anyone is interested there is a link to Burry's posts on X - all very negative about the run up in the stock market - he references some stuff that happened in 1907 -
it looks to me like he is trying to influence people to get out of the market - possibly because he plans on taking other short positions
"AI Overview
Michael Burry has likely closed out his short position (put options) on Palantir (PLTR), based on recent social media activity, though official public filings confirming this are not yet available.
Here is a summary of the situation:
Initial Position: According to a 13F filing released in early November 2025 (covering the quarter ending September 30, 2025), Burry's hedge fund, Scion Asset Management, held put options on 5 million shares of Palantir, a significant bet against the stock.
Recent Activity: Shortly after this filing was made public and Palantir's earnings report was released, Burry posted on X (formerly Twitter) about the "fake news" surrounding his position and included a photo of himself with a caption that some interpreted as a hint he had exited the bet since the end of September.
Lack of Official Confirmation: Public 13F filings are only released quarterly, so there will not be an official report confirming the closure until the next filing (covering the current quarter) is submitted. However, Burry's own posts and market analysis suggest the position may have been a short-term, tactical trade that has since been exited or managed.
In short, while the last official filing showed a large short position, more recent information suggests it has been closed."
from Business Insider - see link -
"Burry signaled that he's no longer short Palantir
13F filings only capture a snapshot of a firm's US stock holdings on a single day each quarter, and are published with a six-week lag. They also exclude shares sold short, investments in private and foreign-listed companies, and non-stock assets such as bonds and real estate, meaning they may not paint a full picture of an investor's strategy.
His recent X posts suggest he's closed out his bet against Palantir since the end of September.
Fake news! I am not 5’6” (not that there is anything wrong with that).
And journalists reporting on 13Fs, none more fake.
Burry has also updated a tease in his X bio, suggesting he'll shed light on his thinking on November 25 instead of in December."
https://www.businessinsider.com/big-short-michael-burry-palantir-stock-alex-karp-puts-ai-2025-11
https://x.com/BurryArchive
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if an investor seeks safety in some cash vehicle he can get about 4%
inflation in 2024 was 2.9% - he can make almost nothing - see link
2023 - 3.4% - 2022- 6.5% - 2021 = 7% - good luck with that
he's in surrender mode
yes, stocks may go way down but they may go up a lot more before that happens
and after they go way down they may come back up very quickly
who knows - ? - answer - nobody knows
I think Palantir going way up today is investors saying Burry is full of ****
and once again, hats off to Soopoo - I think he's a masterful investor - very bold - much bolder and much better than me
my opinion re Burry and his predictions:
"even a broken clock is right twice a day"
https://www.investopedia.com/inflation-rate-by-year-7253832
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Quote: lilredroosteri
and once again, hats off to Soopoo - I think he's a masterful investor - very bold - much bolder and much better than me
Full disclosure. I am no guru. The ONLY thing I would give myself credit for is my long term commitment to the overall stock market. I’ve hit on some stocks, and missed on a bunch as well.
As far as Palantir, even after the 7.5x performance, it’s still less than 0.2% of my portfolio. I own literally hundreds of individual stocks so it’s easy for me to cherry pick one for discussion.
Everything went up a lot today with the news of the shutdown nearing an end. If I was a gambler, I’d be shorting airline stocks. Their margins are thin already, and I think they have been killed by the ATC ‘flu’. I expect a bunch of ‘one time losses’.
This does not mean that Palantir's price won't go up in the short-term. Negative expectation bets often win, sometimes significantly. But you won't profit it in the long-term making negative expectation bets. In the short-term it would be very surprising if there weren't frequent upticks in the price even if the long-term trend proves to be downward. In the same way you will get short-term runs on red at roulette-that is not the basis of a profitable system.
If you had some way of predicting short-term investor sentiment you might be able to make money doing that. That's not easy. It has been done, for example by social arbitrage such as looking at trends on tik tok or google trends. But these things are quite difficult to exploit before the market catches up. I don't know of any reliable method to do that currently.
Quote: SOOPOO
As far as Palantir, even after the 7.5x performance, it’s still less than 0.2% of my portfolio. I own literally hundreds of individual stocks so it’s easy for me to cherry pick one for discussion.
Thanks for pointing that out, it is quite important mathematically. I did not want to have do that because it sounds mean when someone else does that.
Quote: DougGanderThis does not mean that Palantir's price won't go up in the short-term. But you won't profit in the long term - (etc.)
that statement isn't really illuminating since you don't define short term or long term
would you care to define short term and long term - ?
Palantir's stock has gone up 1,836% since it was first offered in Sept. of 2020
it was probably overvalued after the first year
5 years seems like a pretty long time to me
are you indicating that it will definitely go down at some point to its' true mathematical valuation - ?
I believe it may go down a lot but I also believe that it may never go down far enough to match its' valuation
I have no doubt that there are very bold traders who have made large fortunes on Palantir and other similarly overvalued stocks
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Quote: DougGanderBy definition AP's do not bet if the payout does not exceed the true odds.
One critical flaw in your thinking is that no one knows the true odds. They bet on what they believe the true odds are but when you don't have perfect information it is just an educated assumption.
Quote: DRichQuote: DougGanderBy definition AP's do not bet if the payout does not exceed the true odds.
One critical flaw in your thinking is that no one knows the true odds. They bet on what they believe the true odds are but when you don't have perfect information it is just an educated assumption.
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"Successful investing is anticipating the anticipations of others.” — John Maynard Keynes
Quote: DRichQuote: DougGanderBy definition AP's do not bet if the payout does not exceed the true odds.
One critical flaw in your thinking is that no one knows the true odds. They bet on what they believe the true odds are but when you don't have perfect information it is just an educated assumption.
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The concept of perfect information doesn't make any sense-it is relative to the accessible knowledge at the time. The card counter has more information than the regular player but has less information than the shuffle tracker who has less information than the loader etc. each can make the right decision based on the info available to them.
In general people who bring this issue up usually want to justify compulsive gambling/fomo investment by trying to imply basic math doesn't work. It works a damn sight better than betting into something because people made money with it yesterday.
Quote: unJon
Good luck with that.
I covered this above, in the past people have done this to some extent by using social media signals/google trends. But the market irons out the predictive potential there quickly. This is highly non-trivial to do effectively.
Again the fact some people seem to be able to do it it doesn't justify the sentiments rooster is putting forward which is essentially "PEOPLE MADE BIG BUCKS BETTING INTO THIS". I don't care. That's not a reproducible positive expectation strategy.
Quote: DougGanderBut the market irons out the predictive potential there quickly.
quickly - ?
you didn't answer my question
I'll try one more time and then I'll let it go
please indicate how you define short term and long term
thanks in advance for if you do choose to answer
Palantir has been going straight up for 5 years and has surely been overvalued for at least 4 of those years
that seems like long term to me
I have held a tech index fund for at least 10 years
I believe that for at least the last 5 of those years the majority of the stocks in the fund have been overvalued when compared to the typical ways an investment is valued
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It’s in a retirement account, so no present tax consequences if it does or does not pay a dividend.
Quote: billryanQuote: SOOPOOHit 60%. In less than 6 years. I'm looking for one more stock pick from the forum. Throw me some suggestions.
Wait for Tesla to drop to around 275 and go heavy. Or, if you are into shorts, do it now and cash in on the way down as well.
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My first recommendation of this thread. This was before the huge slit.
Quote: billryanQuote: billryanQuote: SOOPOOHit 60%. In less than 6 years. I'm looking for one more stock pick from the forum. Throw me some suggestions.
Wait for Tesla to drop to around 275 and go heavy. Or, if you are into shorts, do it now and cash in on the way down as well.
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My first recommendation of this thread. This was before the huge slit.
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I’ve had TSLA for a while. Possibly on your recommendation!?! But I’m looking for new blood. Waiting on DougGander.
While Tesla was my first pick here, in an earlier post,I doubted whether QQQ could continue to be as good an investment as it was from 2012 to 2018. It's returned 20% a year since then. Hopefully, the person didn't take my advice.
I'm ahead of the S&P in four portfolios and trail it by small margins in two. It's looking like it will be a pretty good year.
I don't see how these covered call ETFs can maintain the monthly payouts, but for those looking for income, they are a blessing.
To collect his one trillion in stock, Esl must grow from a $ 1.1 trillion company to an $ 8.5 trillion company. That is double the market cap of Microsoft if he achieved that he might just be worth the trillion.

