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Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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October 3rd, 2014 at 1:36:53 PM permalink
Quote: rainman

Can this be viable in a casino? I don't know, not really my area of expertise.
What do, I know? I know I would play this in a heartbeat but not at the
high limit room level.
I know this is the damn coolest thing I have seen since bubble craps.
I know this is way outside the box and I believe this is why Ahigh was
chosen to drive the bus.
Its guys like Ahigh that make the big innovations because they think outside the box.



This is not like any previous high limit game.

If a $100 bet required you to win even money, I would be with you.

But when you can get a 20% player edge and win a small fraction of what you bet, and completely eliminate your chance to lose, $100 seems like a small risk for a guaranteed win cashing in your pinball skills.

This game turns what you know about gambling on its ear pretty quick.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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October 3rd, 2014 at 1:46:33 PM permalink
I still don't get why any casino would want to put in a machine where, not only is there is a possible player advantage, but that the game developer admits that it's there and was designed that way.

I don't know, maybe it's just me…
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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October 3rd, 2014 at 1:50:31 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I still don't get why any casino would want to put in a machine where, not only is there is a possible player advantage, but that the game developer admits that it's there and was designed that way.

I don't know, maybe it's just me…



Things is, it starts out at a large player disadvantage, and play just brings it up. A casino could set the maximum player advantage to 1%, set the base at 90% and it'll be rare a player will be with an advantage very often. Not often enough to be APing the game, if my experience with pinball is right, it's hard to get to the big scores consistently.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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October 3rd, 2014 at 2:00:44 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I still don't get why any casino would want to put in a machine where, not only is there is a possible player advantage, but that the game developer admits that it's there and was designed that way.

I don't know, maybe it's just me…



Ir's not just you. As a game player, I thought it was cool. Just like I thought my Atari, c64, Intelevision, Amiga 500, Xbox and Xbox 360 are cool. Fun games to play.

As a table games manager and someone who has been chosen by the State to speak on the future of Table Games/gaming I don't see it working out. I see lots of cool ideas and games. Dozens a year. Many I like but that doesn't mean it's a winner on the floor. There's more to it than just being s fun game or concept.

Crying about negative feedback will never get you anywhere. You should be asking how to make it more viable on the floor of a Casino.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 3rd, 2014 at 2:02:51 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

Joe Kaminkow said it was the "best game at the show."
So did Wade Andrews.
So did "Professionalpoker" the forum administrator for 2+2 poker forums.
.



Just listened to the radio show from last
night. The three hosts pretty much gave
it a thumbs down. Interesting game, but
that you might get good enough to beat
it is an 'illusion'. The pinball part of it, the
skill part, has little to do with the final
outcome. The casino can set it to pay off
exactly like a slot machine. Even the most
skilled player in the world would not be
able to beat it. No perceived advantage
play. Fun game, but takes too long to
play, and the min bet is 'just crazy'.

Just repeating what was said on the show.

Go to 28min in for the pinball part:

http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/g2e2.mp3
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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October 3rd, 2014 at 3:13:38 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I still don't get why any casino would want to put in a machine where, not only is there is a possible player advantage, but that the game developer admits that it's there and was designed that way.

I don't know, maybe it's just me…



It's not just you. Many people (especially people who think in terms of video slots) that I respect continue to fail to understand how the math works.

After the 2+2 forum guys saw the video, they seemed to instantly understand.

I think poker players understand more easily.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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October 3rd, 2014 at 3:15:37 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Just listened to the radio show from last
night. The three hosts pretty much gave
it a thumbs down. Interesting game, but
that you might get good enough to beat
it is an 'illusion'. The pinball part of it, the
skill part, has little to do with the final
outcome. The casino can set it to pay off
exactly like a slot machine. Even the most
skilled player in the world would not be
able to beat it. No perceived advantage
play. Fun game, but takes too long to
play, and the min bet is 'just crazy'.

Just repeating what was said on the show.

Go to 28min in for the pinball part:

http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/g2e2.mp3



There was a failure to understand here. I was very disappointed, actually. But I don't think the Wizard intentionally did what he did here.

Once folks understand it, there is a light bulb moment. It can be frustrating not to get it, I'm sure.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 3rd, 2014 at 3:21:24 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh


Once folks understand it, there is a light bulb moment. It can be frustrating not to get it, I'm sure.



So he was wrong in what he said? An AP
can beat it, the casino can't set it to pay
off just like a slot? The skill part doesn't
count very little in the payout? He claims
he got these facts directly from you.

Correct what he got wrong or we have
no idea what you mean.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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October 3rd, 2014 at 3:21:55 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

There was a failure to understand here. I was very disappointed, actually. But I don't think the Wizard intentionally did what he did here.

Once folks understand it, there is a light bulb moment. It can be frustrating not to get it, I'm sure.



If people aren't "getting it" as you claim, that is the designers fault, not the players. A game has to be describable and learn-able in 30 seconds or less (preferably less). I haven't heard any frustrations from reviews of the game, just thoughts from some smart people saying they don't think it will work. There's a difference.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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October 3rd, 2014 at 4:51:21 PM permalink
The Wizard is actually a self-described terrible pinball player. For the Wizard, I doubt it will be advantage playable! And absolutely! He did not get it after hearing the interview with Bob Dancer where he claimed that it was not advantage playable.

I'm not sure how he could come away thinking that the game is not advantage playable after watching the video that I presented, but I can only believe that he didn't watch the entire video I made.

In the video, I explicitly stated that one goal of the game is that there would be professional players who would consistently win on the game.

How he failed to understand that, I do not know.

People have a hard time understanding that a game that can be beaten by one player cannot be beaten by the sum total of all players.

Somehow the poker players get it much more easily.

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