Bob Dancer = Thief
Hell, John Patrick brags about how he lied to a casino clerk one time, when he had a woman in tow, claiming that they just got married.
The clerk gave them the honeymoon suite, gratis, according to JP.
That trumps "a banana and a cup of coffee," and is indicative of the poverty of both his corporeal being and his soul.
Quote: KB1
I took my parents to a nice hotel paid for their dinner gave them some gambling dough and you know how they repayed me? They stole the damn pillows all 4 of them.Needless to say that cost me on the incidentals,thanks parents.
Old people steal stuff and justify it(try to).
KB1
lol I probably will do this if I have kids.
my excuse will be I'm old.
Quote: KB1
I can't tell you how many old foegies I have seen eating a bag of grapes or a bowl of cut fruit or a handful of candy,etc,etc,etc.
Do old bags feel entitled to some perks whereever they go?
The old fogies you refer to are mostly baby boomers
in their 60's and early 70's. Mine was the first spoiled
generation. My parents never have would taken anything
or even snatched food in a grocery store. The WWII
generation. The young people today are even worse,
they'll steal anything and everything. The boss I
described earlier was not the norm, far from it. My
parents generation prided themselves on their integrity.
Today people pride themselves on gaming the system.
My parents are 50 and they would sweat all the small stuff when I was a kid.They wouldn't even let me watch raunchy tv like bevis and buthead,no mtv.They were real conservative pricks.Now I am 32 and I am the conservative prick and they are the hoodylems.
Quote: KB1BOB,
My parents are 50 and they would sweat all the small stuff when I was a kid.They wouldn't even let me watch raunchy tv like bevis and buthead,no mtv.They were real conservative pricks.Now I am 32 and I am the conservative prick and they are the hoodylems.
I suspect they were always the way they are now,
only not in front of you. People don't change. If
they're stealing pillows now, they were stealing
them before. You just didn't see it.
Quote: Mission146They could get rid of the fee, but then the rates would just go up.
Then raise the rates. If I have the choice between: A) room rate of $100 with no resort fee or B) room rate of $1 with a $99 resort fee I'll choose A. Option A is honest and straitforward. Option B is sneaky. Eventually the rooms will be free and the resort fee will be $100.
Quote: EvenBobI suspect they were always the way they are now,
only not in front of you. People don't change. If
they're stealing pillows now, they were stealing
them before. You just didn't see it.
Yeah Bob I think you are right.
They have always been kind of shady but I never saw it as a kid.
Now that I have just a little experience in life I can see
Quote: KB1Yeah Bob I think you are right.
They have always been kind of shady but I never saw it as a kid.
Now that I have just a little experience in life I can see
I was dating a girl my age in 1970. At the movie
she found a wallet on her seat. She stuck it in
her purse and made us move to another aisle.
Sure enough, here comes a manager with some
guy and they looked all over the area where the
wallet had been. When we left she took the money
out and dropped the wallet in a mailbox without
batting an eye. This wasn't some hoodlum, this
was a girl I went to college with. I should have
dumped her, but getting laid was far more important.
That's your parents generation.
I don't think anyone was upset by the seriousness of this petty crime. Most of us have all done such things and 10 times worst. I bet this is not the worst thing Bob has done. I think he has admitted to worst. Bob has feverishly strived to became a well known, popular VP leader and a teacher. He has done well for himself (no need to steal) He has followers, some that will do as he dose. Like it or not, he represents the AP community and should act as a roll model and be held to a higher standard. If an AP authority is stealing from motels, imagine what the casinos think other AP's are doing. If he dose not want that responsibility, then don't ask people to buy your books, take your classes or listen to your advice, unless you want others to steal as well.
Personally I don't care if he steals bananas, sell's hotel rooms, pulls his card, takes advantage of casinos. I might be right along with him. I only care if he is helping casinos avoid promotional mistakes and educating them more then necessary, outing individuals or telling lies.
Quote: EvenBobThe old fogies you refer to are mostly baby boomers
in their 60's and early 70's. Mine was the first spoiled
generation.
Sadly, Baby Boomers have really effed things up in this country.
Quote: rxwineThis would be unethical (don't you think), but it is part of my childhood. Never really questioned it either, but just thought of it while reading the thread.
Yep, unethical, when it comes to money I definitely draw the line. No funny business, point out errors, pay your bills, etc.
In a casino I'll admit this gets tested. The only time, though, that I slip there is when I realize too late there must have been a mistake. Same way if I realize at home somebody forgot to charge me for a carton of eggs [something that happened not too long ago], I'm not driving back to the store to pay for it.
Good grandson that I was.... Took grandmother and her friend to Wendy's when they had a salad bar. My grandmother ordered chili, me a burger, and her friend just salad bar. My grandmother asked if I could get her some crackers for her chili, and they went to get a table while I waited for the order. When I returned to the table with the two packets of crackers... the entire table was covered in packets of crackers.... all shoveled into grandmas purse! Her friend after eating quite a small amount of salad... started putting the large number of cherry tomatoes into a plastic bag she had brought from home just for this purpose!
Not necessarily. This is a huckster, showman type who has to keep his newsletter filled and in the headlines, so don't think he would pass up the opportunity for some headlines.Quote: KeyserSozePay for your breakfast? Nope, not Bob. He steals breakfast. This guy has hit another low.
Second, this is Las Vegas... its a world unto itself. It has its own morality. Other towns do not have a "Brother Chip" who collects chips from churches and delivers them to casinos. Other towns don't have half naked women on billboards all over town. Morality is time and place sensitive.
Quote: FleaStiffNot necessarily. This is a huckster, showman type who has to keep his newsletter filled and in the headlines, so don't think he would pass up the opportunity for some headlines.
I know Bob pretty well, and what he did is not out of character for him at all. For him, advantage play is a lifestyle. He will bend the rules to save a buck anywhere he can.
Quote:Morality is time and place sensitive.
I disagree. My definition of morality is a measure of what you contribute to society less what you consume from it. Regarding billboards of half-naked women, I have no problem with that, as they are advertising legal and consentual entertainment. Of course, that is just my opinion.
Quote: ontariodealerthey asked yogi berra once how was the hotel.....he replied "there towels were so thick i could hardly close my suitcase"
I heard that long ago, but didn't know Yogi was the source. Sometimes I will fill out a 'feedback card' at a hotel with that saying:
Your towels are too big and thick. I couldn't close my suitcase.
Quote: WizardMy definition of morality is a measure of what you contribute to society less what you consume from it
Taking this to an absurd level…would someone who scammed little old ladies out of their life savings, then, the day before he dies, donates all the ill-gotten gains to cancer research, leading to a cure for cancer…ultimately be deemed to have been 'moral'…?
Quote: aceofspadesTaking this to an absurd level…would someone who scammed little old ladies out of their life savings, then, the day before he dies, donates all the ill-gotten gains to cancer research, leading to a cure for cancer…ultimately be deemed to have been 'moral'…?
No. At best he would be only neutral because he just redistributed money. He didn't create any new wealth. However, I also believe in rules beyond just looking at the net contribution to society. One simply shouldn't take that which doesn't belong to him/her.
I don't view petty thefts, or petty thefts or services, a feather in my cap. A free lunch tastes worse.
In 2005, I once stayed at the Wild Wild West, and while the rooms were clean, the Gamblers Grill was fine, and I was comped well, the TOWELS in the room were so small, thread-bare, and unimpressive that I thought they had to have been designed as an anti-theft mechanism cost-saving move. They were like Bounty paper towels made out of cloth! And the "terry" of the terry-cloth was just barely string enough not to be fuzz. I laughed and thought to myself, "Bravo!" One could say on this thread , "Not even Bob or Yogi Berra would steal THIS!" :)
It worked in drying me, but it felt and looked so deliberately chintzy - so remarkably cheap - it basically said, "we know who you are. WELCOME."
And you would LOOK at the towel in amazement, because the towel said to you..."Go ahead, asshole, steal me, you already paid the 37 cents for me, WE KNOW YOUR GAME! You didn't check into the WYNN!" The WWW could have even had powdered soap and the rough brown paper towels that we used in the bathrooms of inner city public schools from the 1960's. It was the type of thing where anyone who could afford a hotel - even the Wild Wild West, - would be ashamed to have these towels in their home for themselves or for guests. To the guests who took them, it would announce, "I STOLE from a homeless shelter, okay!" So, it was also an "in-your-face" deliberate statement from management that said, "Yeah, if you're staying here, we know that you're cheap, or broke, or hard-up, or an AP, and we know that you're an odds-on a free-lunch thief by your visitation at this joint, or have a CDL, or both."
Again, the place was clean, but they had also $3 red LED clock radios, a single "hand me down" picture on the wall (something like Conrad Twitty strumming a guitar that wouldn't be displayed in a trailer park), 400 pound "old tube" color TV's that barely worked. Tin sheet-metal ashtrays like the old McDonalds ashtrays when smoking was allowed. Yup - accommodations! It made Ikea stuff look like R.C. Willey. Same thing with their (actually generous) comps - as every comp redemption got a call to the pit, - comp slip in hand.
I mean, you ignored your accommodations and went out to see Las Vegas, because if you looked hard at your surroundings while staying there, it was totally designed to say "you can't AP us....you can't AP us....you can't AP us...do so and you leave with nothing...do so and you leave with nothing...do so and you leave with nothing...." It was designed to be a cheap "stay 'n' play." One young man was arrested there for capping a $3 bet to $6 twice, and booked with Metro Police. The dealer who was fired for missing the capped bets was a friend of mine. The kid who capped his bets got a world of pain.
You couldn't AP this place for crap. I played clean and I won. It had (and still has) a great little pit. This place was engineered for, "clean play and we're fine; try any shit here and it's trouble." So if you looked at this place, it was designed to be this way, a "come with little, leave with clean winnings or nothing" - a crash pad for a gambler's special of $19.99 a night. It forces you to legitimately pay your way - as little as it is.
So pilfer-proof it was uncanny. They really designed this joint to be this way. the joint is Dancer-proof.
Soap/Shampoo is a pretty common souvenir that people like to take with them when they leave a hotel, so I don't mind if people ask for some just for the purpose of taking it. I can say that I typically use my own soap, but I don't care what shampoo I use, so I have a tendency of using the shampoo and taking the soap with me as a souvenir, if it has the name of the place on it.
I don't look at soap/shampoo as stealing because the hotel puts them in there for you to use, and if I weren't allowed to take them, then I could use them just for the sake of using them and the net effect would be no different.
Towels are totally different because it is obvious that those are going to be reused, even if they are used by the guest of the room. That's the same thing with blankets, etc...
Let's see, what are the most common items actually stolen from this hotel, no particular order:
Ashtrays
Alarm Clock Radios
Hangers
Batteries (From Remotes)
Bibles
Although, I'm not sure if The Bibles are technically stealing. The Gideons come by once every couple years, or so, and bring a bunch of free Bibles. I recall them asking me how many rooms we had a couple years ago, and then they gave us 5x that many Bibles, so perhaps they are hoping for people to take them. The Bibles are free to the hotel, which also leads me to conclude that it may not be stealing. Maybe someone thought they were stealing The Bible, though, it could be subjective with something like that, I guess.
Ashtrays? Really? They don't even have our logo. These are ashtrays that used to be $0.10 at the Dollar store, I think we get them for about $0.08/each when we order one of the big cases. Actually, it costs us more to put soap/shampoo in the room!
Clock radios? That's just wrong. Those things clearly have a cost greater than $1.00.
Batteries? What a pain! Talk about inconsiderate. The housekeepers are supposed to check the remotes, of course, but that doesn't always happen.
Hangers? I'd tell someone to go ahead and take one or two if they asked and needed them for some reason, but to steal an entire closetful?
HONORABLE MENTION:
Irons.
Irons? Really? Is this a new invention that you just learned how to iron clothes? Now, I don't iron anything and I don't encourage anyone else to do so, either, but I've been familiar with the existence of irons for basically my whole life!
If your talking about the Wild Wild West the former King 8. Their pit may have been AP proof, But the VP not so much. On just one occasion alone, they had a promotion there, each time you ate in the restaurant you got to choose your 4 of a kind coupon for each person that ate( if 6 people ate you got 6 different 4 of a kind coupons). The coupon payed double on a 4 of a kind up to $1 denomination, it had a $500 max, I believe. We would get as many family members/ friends as possible to come eat and we would pay for their breakfast, lunch and dinner in exchange for their coupons. Each coupon was worth about $380 minus the cost of the food and tip. This area was a magnet for less fortunate people. Often times I would bring them in and pay for their meals as well (and ask for their coupon), I ended up feeding a lot of homeless people who frequented this area. Look at that....... an AP that fed the homeless and hungry.Quote: PaigowdanThis may sound strange, but I get no kick from getting over, be it swiping towels from a hotel stay, or absconding with free food, etc.
I don't view petty thefts, or petty thefts or services, a feather in my cap. A free lunch tastes worse.
In 2005, I once stayed at the Wild Wild West, and while the rooms were clean, the Gamblers Grill was fine, and I was comped well, the TOWELS in the room were so small, thread-bare, and unimpressive that I thought they had to have been designed as an anti-theft mechanism cost-saving move. They were like Bounty paper towels made out of cloth! And the "terry" of the terry-cloth was just barely string enough not to be fuzz. I laughed and thought to myself, "Bravo!" One could say on this thread , "Not even Bob or Yogi Berra would steal THIS!" :)
It worked in drying me, but it felt and looked so deliberately chintzy - so remarkably cheap - it basically said, "we know who you are. WELCOME."
And you would LOOK at the towel in amazement, because the towel said to you..."Go ahead, asshole, steal me, you already paid the 37 cents for me, WE KNOW YOUR GAME! You didn't check into the WYNN!" The WWW could have even had powdered soap and the rough brown paper towels that we used in the bathrooms of inner city public schools from the 1960's. It was the type of thing where anyone who could afford a hotel - even the Wild Wild West, - would be ashamed to have these towels in their home for themselves or for guests. To the guests who took them, it would announce, "I STOLE from a homeless shelter, okay!" So, it was also an "in-your-face" deliberate statement from management that said, "Yeah, if you're staying here, we know that you're cheap, or broke, or hard-up, or an AP, and we know that you're an odds-on a free-lunch thief by your visitation at this joint, or have a CDL, or both."
Again, the place was clean, but they had also $3 red LED clock radios, a single "hand me down" picture on the wall (something like Conrad Twitty strumming a guitar that wouldn't be displayed in a trailer park), 400 pound "old tube" color TV's that barely worked. Tin sheet-metal ashtrays like the old McDonalds ashtrays when smoking was allowed. Yup - accommodations! It made Ikea stuff look like R.C. Willey. Same thing with their (actually generous) comps - as every comp redemption got a call to the pit, - comp slip in hand.
I mean, you ignored your accommodations and went out to see Las Vegas, because if you looked hard at your surroundings while staying there, it was totally designed to say "you can't AP us....you can't AP us....you can't AP us...do so and you leave with nothing...do so and you leave with nothing...do so and you leave with nothing...." It was designed to be a cheap "stay 'n' play." One young man was arrested there for capping a $3 bet to $6 twice, and booked with Metro Police. The dealer who was fired for missing the capped bets was a friend of mine. The kid who capped his bets got a world of pain.
You couldn't AP this place for crap. I played clean and I won. It had (and still has) a great little pit. This place was engineered for, "clean play and we're fine; try any shit here and it's trouble." So if you looked at this place, it was designed to be this way, a "come with little, leave with clean winnings or nothing" - a crash pad for a gambler's special of $19.99 a night.
So pilfer-proof it was uncanny. They really designed this joint to be this way. the joint is Dancer-proof.
Quote: sodawaterwhy would anyone want 2 used triple a batteries from a hotel remote?
Don't know, most of ours are AA's. There are plenty of people you could ask, though, it probably happens a couple of times per week.
That 4 of a kind coupon is pretty sweet. Did the coupons have an expiration (it can be a long time between 4OAK of a specific rank, which is what I assume you mean)
Quote: tournamentkingDancer recently went through a seemingly, by his own admission in his columns, less-than-morally-acceptable divorce. Then an in-your-face by grabbing onto his ex's bff; then his attempt at cheating an east coast casino with some unvetted criminal as a partner; then this breakfast fiasco, and that's only the incidents that are documented. Has anyone considered his downward spiral might be related to the shock of all he had to give up to a woman he treated as if he wished she never existed?
Gee, what do you know: tk has yet another member to judge. How thoughtful of BD to provide the opportunity. Every cloud DOES have a silver lining.
a hotel room, it's never even occurred to me. I
just don't need any of it. I'm not above taking it, I
just don't see the point if you don't need it. Shrug.
Like the robes. I hate em, I never wear them and
I would never ever wear them at home. Men look
ridiculous in robes, IMO. Women look like somebodies
mother in them. My dad had a robe, he looked like a
refugee in the thing. They just aren't masculine, they're
made for old ladies.
Quote: Mission146
Ashtrays
Alarm Clock Radios
Hangers
Batteries (From Remotes)
Bibles
HONORABLE MENTION:
Irons.
I suppose I should throw out a disclaimer on a few things.
1.) Ashtrays
-People probably just figure that they are so cheap that it doesn't matter. They're basically right. It's just a PITA when the housekeeper doesn't replace it when she cleans the room.
2.) Alarm Clock Radios
-No excuse.
3.) Hangers
-I could see how one or two might be accidental. Sometimes, people will ask to take them to their car because they may have a suit jacket, or something, that they don't want to put on until they get to a certain place, but then they wear said jacket back into the hotel. That's excusable, if it gets forgotten in the car. There's really no excuse for jacking an entire closet of them, though.
4.) Batteries
-I could see how this could be an accident. Someone could have a Game Boy Advance, or a kid with a similar device, and the batteries die in the device, so they use the ones from the remote fully intending to put them back, but they forget. I don't think that's the case every time, though, as stated, it happens a few times per week.
5.) Bibles
-Free to us, and everyone knows they are free to us. I could see where there is some question of whether or not that is actually stealing.
6.) Irons
-No excuse.
Well, AP and cheating should not be in the same conversation. From what I remember, Dan seems to lump together AP's and cheaters. Casinos probably cheat players out of stuff more then players cheat casinos. Cheating is marking cards, capping bets, rigging machines, using devices.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIn fairness, Dan was not talking about AP in the pits, he was talking about flat-out cheating.
That 4 of a kind coupon is pretty sweet. Did the coupons have an expiration (it can be a long time between 4OAK of a specific rank, which is what I assume you mean)
I think they wanted you to use them within 24 hrs but they didn't really check. They may have looked at the meal respite date, so you could just get a different respite an present that with the old coupon just in case. the promotion only lasted 3 weeks at most. I think our group were the only ones that really played it. It's Possible a few others knew about it but didn't make the effort to exploit it fully, I never seen anyone else doing it. Remember, unless you collected many different 4 of a kind ranks it was not as good. You had to get a full set for max EV, then replace them as needed. It was a very small place and we ran good so i was amazed it lasted that long. Boomtown /Silverton, what ever it was called, did a variation of this many times, First time it was on $5 denominations. In my mind, I didn't have the BankRoll to play the first Boomtown promotion on the $5, so I sold mine to $5 AP's and made a deal on the $1 denominations. That was one play I regret not taking a chance.
Quote: WizardI know Bob pretty well, and what he did is not out of character for him at all. For him, advantage play is a lifestyle. He will bend the rules to save a buck anywhere he can.
And do you agree, support, or condone this?
Quote: Mission146Batteries (From Remotes)
Bibles
I can't imagine taking the batteries, but it is a practical idea.
But I always thought there was a card or printed notice in the Gideon Bibles which said it was OK to take them. Is that now gone? (It's been so long since I looked in one... and do they still put them in the rooms at Caesars?)
Quote: AlanMendelson
But I always thought there was a card or printed notice in the Gideon Bibles which said it was OK to take them. Is that now gone? (It's been so long since I looked in one... and do they still put them in the rooms at Caesars?)
Still did the last time I checked which was a week ago. I've always wondered how corporations do not get into hot water by leaving bibles in rooms. The last sanctuary of religious worship, in casino hotels?
Also what percent of people actually read them to using them as rolling paper?
I think that's the only thing I ever stole in my life.
Almost a year to the day that happened I found a lady's wallet with $400 in it. I went to the lady's house, rang the bell and gave the wallet back. I refused the reward she offered. I did, of course, have the elderly woman who gave back my wallet as an example in my mind.
There is a Chinese dry cleaner near me that I always used. I left $3,900 in my shirt pocket (a button-down military shirt). When I got home I realized what I had done and rushed back to the laundry. The owner denied that there had been any money in the shirt. There had been. Obviously I stopped using this dry cleaner.
As for casinos, there are certain laws that are in effect. If you find a chip on the floor or credits in a machine (or coins in a tray) the money belongs to the casinos. If the dealer makes a mistake and overpays you or forgets to take your bet on a loss, you are under no legal oligation to inform the dealer of such mistakes (morality might make you think differently). These I got from the Nevada Control Commission when I wrote a television show for the Travel Channel.
In hotels (at least in New York and New Jersey) "personal products" in the room such as soaps, shampoo, various creams, shower caps, sowing instruments are considered the guest's. Yes, you can take these home.
As for Bob Dancer and his former wife, I met them a few times when Bob and I did events together. Since I am not a big follower of video poker writers, I have no comment on what is being talked about concerning him because I know little about his activities firsthand.
(My new book "Confessions of a Wayward Catholic" available at Amazon.com)
Quote: FrankScobleteIIn hotels (at least in New York and New Jersey) "personal products" in the room such as soaps, shampoo, various creams, shower caps, sowing instruments are considered the guest's. Yes, you can take these home.q]
I have to ask you Frank what hotel you were in that provided a "sowing instrument". It sounds like a hotel I should frequent as I find the instrument I was born with is not as dependable as it was when I was younger.Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
I don't think it's there for emergency scripture reading, for people who left their bible at home. Although I guess it could serve that purpose.
Recruitment, recruitment, recruitment. IMO.
Quote: rxwine
I don't think it's there for emergency scripture reading, for people who left their bible at home. .
They want you to take it. It's like when a drug
dealer gives you the first jolt for free. That's
how you get converts, free samples.
Perhaps that's why I just gave up and started killing small animals= JOKE
I think you should send a copy of your book to Dancer.
Have you ever taken someone out to dinner and then written it off as a business expense when the dinner didn't really qualify as a business expense? How about buying postage stamps and writing off the expense, then using some of those stamps for personal use? I've had blackjack dealers pay my stiff hands when they thought they had busted. Did I bring this to their attention? No, and if I did they would have taken my bet with a blank ( or a what are you, stupid?) look on their face. I didn't give the casino back their $10 bet that I should have lost, and eating a couple of dollars worth of coffee and fruit that no one asked Bob to pay for is worse?
WOW, that's something she could get canned for, encouraging you to cash in some little old lady's last, lost chip, one that she was going to use for Xmas presents, for her needy grandchildren. She should have made you turn it in to security, that way they could split it up.Quote: tournamentkingFrank I don't follow the chip on the floor thing. I was cashing a ticket at the Planet Ho cage two months ago when I felt something under my foot. I reached down and picked up a black chip. The cashier saw me bend down and come up with this chip. She said "must be your lucky day, would you like to cash it in"? So I did. Is what you stated some state or federal law?
I think you should send a copy of your book to Dancer.
Why brag/blog about it? I think it makes AP's look bad (not that they aren't) If Bob knowingly steals fruit and coffee. Maybe its ok for me to steal other things. I don't see the difference between doing what he did, from walking into a 7-11 and grabbing a donuts without paying and walking out.Quote: GreasyjohnI once found a $25 chip on the casino floor at the Silverton. This inspired me to look into the legality of keeping it and I found out that yes, it is the property of the casino. Re: Bob Dancer, he went down to the continental breakfast. He stated in his article that had they checked to see if he was eligible for the breakfast that he would have then decided to either pay for it or eat elsewhere. Since the motel didn't check or ask for payment that's not Bob's fault. Look, morality is a matter of degree. Did I give the $25 chip back to the Silverton that I found? No.
Have you ever taken someone out to dinner and then written it off as a business expense when the dinner didn't really qualify as a business expense? How about buying postage stamps and writing off the expense, then using some of those stamps for personal use? I've had blackjack dealers pay my stiff hands when they thought they had busted. Did I bring this to their attention? No, and if I did they would have taken my bet with a blank ( or a what are you, stupid?) look on their face. I didn't give the casino back their $10 bet that I should have lost, and eating a couple of dollars worth of coffee and fruit that no one asked Bob to pay for is worse?
Again, im not judging or saying I would not scam some breakfast.
