Having to tip dealers is ridiculous
Quote: kewljYour inability to have a discussion and share viewpoints without getting nasty and throwing insults, has just demonstrated the "ATTITUDE" that many dealers have that I was talking about. It is a wonder anyone tips you.
While I missed playing while Dan dealt, I've met him in person and I can assure you he's nothing short of adorable. But you might expect him to mount a zealous defense of his prefession (or one of his professions), as befits a man of strong convictions.
Quote: AussieAgree 100% Fins. It's not just dealers though, its the whole society.
If you paid everyone a proper wage and simply increased prices to cover it the whole system would be far simpler. Not only would the customer not have to worry about thinking how much they are supposed to tip (or if they're supposed to tip at all), the government wouldn't miss out on the billions of dollars of tax revenue each year that no doubt goes missing because of income from tips that doesn't get declared.
Service industry staff in Australia get paid $20+/hr and generally receive no tips. Service is the same standard as I have experience in the US.
When I visited my family in the land of Oz - we were constantly berated by them if we even thought of leaving a tip!!!
Quote: kewljCard counting is an "offense" ONLY in the eyes of the casino. There isn't a judge or jury anywhere that has ever declared card counting as anything but legal. The casino industry just doesn't want it. They want no one that uses their brain in any way. They only want people that are willing to lose. If they were honest they would hang a sign that says "winner not welcome. Only losers". They are simply an industry they preys on people's weaknesses and even that isn't enough. They will fill you full of free liquor to make sure that your judgement is impaired. They prey on the older people taking their social security. They prey on people with addictions. They prey on the weak. But it's ok, because they have a little disclaimer at the bottom about problem gambling absorbing them of all their sins. I mean come on the industry cashes peoples pay checks, enticing them with various bonuses, to lose their paychecks before they ever get home. Before they pay their rent and mortgage. Before the buy food for their kids. Before you throw, stones, perhaps you should look in the mirror. YOU should be ashamed to earn a living as part of an industry that preys on the weak. And it appears from your comments that you fit right in with a 'bully mentality'.
Your inability to have a discussion and share viewpoints without getting nasty and throwing insults, has just demonstrated the "ATTITUDE" that many dealers have that I was talking about. It is a wonder anyone tips you.
1. I can have a discussion quite fine indeed. particularly because I know HOW this business works. I thought my points were fine, and you are free to flag my posts if you felt that there was any ad hominen attacks, personal insults, or any flaming involved. I believe you are chargrined because we disagree, that's all. I just absolutely disagree that card-counting is either a viable career choice at this point, or any sort of good-faith ethical behavior in a gaming hall, and that's all.
2. The Legality of Card-counting is not at all the issue here, as only the naive believe it is. Clearly. Cheating your 5-year old neice at Monopolgy or Go Fish for lunch money doesn't bring out squad cars, but it is not what grown-ups do. And It is fully legal for a Nevada casino or gambling hall to say to you: "Your next bet - and every subsequent bet - is the same as your start-of-the-shoe bet," - as well as - "You either play Roulette or dice or you're gone", - as well as - "You're done for the night, Sir, you're out of here. Security will walk you out to the bus stop. Sorry you couldn't make gas money here for your 1982 pick-up truck." And they will be that cheeky, and no, it is not against the law, and no, it is not explemplary customer service.
3. In this day and age only a fool or a deluded person would believe it [card-counting, check mucking, hole-carding, or any casino malfeasance] is a viable, lucrative, and worthwhile career choice - even as a pasttime, especially masquerading under "the casino operator is the bad guy to be brought down! YESS!." The casino or gambling hall is no different than a movie house/cinema operator, a night club, or a show house or a bar, or a food service operator - that provides an evening's entertainment to its customers in good faith, and expects in return good faith patronage. Defrauders and theft-attempters just drive up costs and bring it all down for all and everyone involved. Do you sneek into movie houses via the fire door to see movies for free instead of paying the $10 ticket fee? Do you sneak tupperware to buffets? Do you conterfeit transit passes to get free bus rides? Others will pay for such parasistic behavior when you know it is against the rules (you've been backed off, and it was not by accident or mistaken idendity, now was it?), - and where painting the business operator who is trying to provide us these good services to us all as somehow evil no longer cuts it anymore.
4. Count cards if you want. Grind all you want. I deal only dice and Pai Gow anyway, except for some relief duties on a CSM anyway, precisely because I will say on a pitch game, "Floor - I'm flat-betting the counter on seat 3 on BJ-7, - call surveillance, his gas money days are over here...", and it looks unseemly. What anyone else does in this business is his business. I know what works, and what doesn't. You could have a career as a game protection officer if your record is clean, you might be good...
Quote: 4andaKickerNo one forced you to become a dealer. If you don't like it, get a different job. Or you could do what I did when I was young and my job didn't pay enough to support my family: sack up and work 2 jobs. I worked 104 hours a week on 2 full time jobs until we got through the rough patch. Life is tough. I don't say that facetiously. I never asked for help, just did what I had to do to make it, and so should everyone else. The fact you admit you take pleasure in watching players lose tells me all I need to know about what kind of dealer you are.
I'm sticking to my guns and only tipping dealers that deserve it. There is no entitlement, only goodwill.
Exactly - like I said, I do indeed tip BUT, if you do not like being in the service industry -get out
Quote: FinsRuleAll of this would be fixed if casinos paid their dealers a honest wage, and did not allow tips.
I think that depends on how you defined "fixed". If by fixed you mean that dealers wouldn't have to smile and remain cordial to douchebags, while earning a living wage, then I suppose I could agree. If by fixed you mean you'd get good service and not have to sweat the tip, then I'd have to disagree.
We'd make the same money....
Treat our well behaved players really well....
and treat grinders much less well....
...and tell them if they had a problem with it, they could hire the next McDonald's worker to handle all that cash...
and then Shufflemaster would put nothing in but electronic I-tables...
...which you couldn;t count down,
....or fire a dealer over...
Quote: Paigowdan1. I can have a discussion quite fine indeed.
Security will walk you out to the bus stop. Sorry you couldn't make gas money here for your 1982 pick-up truck." And they will be that cheeky, and no, it is not against the law, and no, it is not explemplary customer service.
Do you sneek into movie houses via the fire door to see movies for free instead of paying the $10 ticket fee? Do you sneak tupperware to buffets? Do you conterfeit transit passes to get free bus rides?
Your second and third statements here just prove your first statement false. In your #2 statement, you make a point. Fair enough. I don't agree with your point, but you have the right to make it. So why do you then have to stoop to saying something about a 1982 pickup truck, gas money, and taking the bus, just to attempt to belittle someone. Sir, that is not what grown-ups do. That is third grade. If you want to have a respectful discussion where adults share viewpoints even though opposing, I am game, but I am not going to play games. I don't flag post and am not looking to exchange barbs.
I happen to agree with you about some of the things that you mentioned. Check mucking, marking cards, capping bets. Cheating is cheating. These players are doing something against the rules. Card counter are playing exactly by the rules. Betting different amounts at different times is not against the rules, hence the table minimum and maximum amounts posted. Thinking is not a crime and should not be grouped in with these others. I even happen to agree about hole-carding. This also is not a crime, and it is the casino's responsibility to not have weak dealers, but the hole-carder, unlike the card counter is not playing by the rules with the information he was intended to have. I won't go as far as to call it cheating, but it is right up against the line, IMO. I am not comfortable with these methods. I did some hole-carding for a brief period, a couple years ago, and decided that I was just not comfortable with that type of play.
I am not poor sir, I make a decent living, upper five figures for a number of years in a row now. I just can't afford to pay your salary on top of it and frankly I shouldn't have to. The casino industry does quite well. They can afford to pay their employees a decent wage. If you have a point to make, please make it factually and stop with the third grade tactics of this type of name calling and put downs.
Now, if this industry that you love much that you defend it with child like name-calling, paid you a decent salary, as they should and certainly can afford to do, we wouldn't be having this conversation and casino employees wouldn't be reduced to begging for tips.
Quote: Paigowdan
You could have a career as a game protection officer if your record is clean, you might be good...
No thanks, I'd rather be on the more lucrative side of
that fence, thanks anyway. No laws are being broken,
no rules are being bent. The fox usually doesn't want
the job of guarding the chickens, he has a much better
deal already.
Don't you also think it would be ethical when offering a promotion it should be written in a way most of there patrons could easily understand it?
Do you think its ethical for casinos to advertise there slots pay out (x) when its only one tucked in a corner somewhere.
Do you think its ethical to provide check cashing services gambling and free liquor in the same building?
Every time you speak of card counters you always make sure to lump them in the same sentence with cheaters, And then you start using terms like unethical. It seems your always wearing the rose colored glasses when viewing and speaking of the gaming industry.
Quote: FinsRuleWhy should casino customers have to subsidize dealer salaries?
We don't *have* to as tipping is voluntary. I'd like to think dealers don't judge you if you don't tip and are pleasant either way.
If the dealer is pleasant and makes my experience more enjoyable, I tend to tip. If I go on a really nice run, I also tend to tip- but not over the top.
So I guess I tip for "good energy" that a dealer may bring my way, for those dealers that make the effort and who are grateful at any tip I may give regardless of size.
It's too bad tips are pooled, although I understand why they are.
Most awkward tip: Getting a straight in Let-It-Ride in Hull, a French-speaking city in Canada. I tipped the dealer some chips and she looked at the Pit Boss and then proceeded to put them in the tray.
Best tip: Caught Trips in 3-card playing quarters and tipped $15 to the dealer playing the pair-plus bet on the next hand. Caught a straight flush for a $600 tip! Those days are just fun...
Can you explain why to me ??
Quote: buzzpaff" It's too bad tips are pooled, although I understand why they are."
Can you explain why to me ??
I asked a dealer this once she said it's because everyone wants the good shift. Since it can't happen to be fair they agree to share.
Quote: buzzpaff" It's too bad tips are pooled, although I understand why they are."
Can you explain why to me ??
I would say the main reason is the complexity of managing the process as dealers change throughout the hour. Dealers would have to take their tips from table to table and it would slow things down and just be hard to manage.
I suspect they also would not want the temptation of a quid pro quo: the better you tip me the more I may allow certain mistakes to happen.
Quote: buzzpaff" It's too bad tips are pooled, although I understand why they are."
Can you explain why to me ??
I like it because even though I often do pretty good on tips I can't control where I'm assigned for a night. Mini-bacc, which I deal quite often, has terrible tippers where I work. Also, getting stuck on carnival games is often a bad tip night. The pooling helps to average things out so I have a predictable paycheck. In the end I might actually make more if I kept my own tips, but I like the security that comes from pooling. Because, like I said, I don't know what game I'll be assigned to, and some of them just don't generate as many tips on average as others.
Quote: rainmanDan don't you think it would be ethical and a show of good faith for the industry to put signs on all the games stating the house edge?
No. Because most people would just stare at it and argue, and demand that the pit boss or Mike Shackleford should explain it. the house edge is posted right here at this companion site Wizardofodds and every where else on the Internet. for that matter, Do you get explained to you that for your $10 movie, that it is broken down to:
- $3.4M for Liam Neesom, the star....
- $900,000 for the Director of Photgraphy,
-$327,500 for the screen writer, and
- $22.75 an hour for each and every key grip servicing the floodlights on the set for Scene #482?
...Every time you see a movie?
Quote: rainmanDon't you also think it would be ethical when offering a promotion it should be written in a way most of there patrons could easily understand it?
No. Most promo's are "On Tuedays, Blackjacks pay 2:1," or: "Here's a free bet coupon. Put it on the pass line and throw the dice."
We make it that simple, and most people who have the capacity to fill their gas tanks with a debit card seem to have no problem.
Quote: rainmanDo you think its ethical for casinos to advertise there slots pay out (x) when its only one tucked in a corner somewhere.
Yes. Come and play.
Quote: rainmanDo you think its ethical to provide check cashing services gambling and free liquor in the same building?
Yes. It is a convenience that many people find convenient.
Quote: rainmanEvery time you speak of card counters you always make sure to lump them in the same sentence with cheaters, And then you start using terms like unethical. It seems your always wearing the rose colored glasses when viewing and speaking of the gaming industry.
No, I actually now have soot-colored glass from dealing with all the card-counters, casino cheats, shot-takers, and the floormen who have to deal with this crap. Card-counting is known to be against CASINO HOUSE RULES, is bad-faith Blackjack play by house rules, even if you don't get a mig shot for it.
I mostly like to tip because the dealers recognize me and show me a good time. If I am going to the casino in an effort to show a strong profit, strangely, I usually play the slots because that's where Lady Variance seems most frequently to be on my side. I went over to the casino just a couple of weeks ago, love the Craps dealers, the supervisor spots me from twenty feet, even when he has a full table, and gives me, "Hey, how was work at (wrong hotel)?" He always greets me and uses the wrong hotel's name as a joke because I usually go there after work and am wearing my logoed polo or button-up.
That particular night, I just stood there and watched the action for about an hour, didn't feel like playing. When I was ready to go back to slots, I threw them a red, "No action, for the dealers." It's a fun way to spend an hour if the table is full. I prefer not to play at a packed table, but it's great entertainment! I'm willing to slide them a few bucks, besides, I probably had a couple bucks worth of coffee for free at that point!
Quote: kewljYour second and third statements here just prove your first statement false. In your #2 statement, you make a point. Fair enough. I don't agree with your point, but you have the right to make it. So why do you then have to stoop to saying something about a 1982 pickup truck, gas money, and taking the bus, just to attempt to belittle someone. Sir, that is not what grown-ups do. That is third grade. If you want to have a respectful discussion where adults share viewpoints even though opposing, I am game, but I am not going to play games. I don't flag post and am not looking to exchange barbs.
Fine. it has just gotten to the point where most of the card counters we see, before we back them off, have gotten to the point of running a $60 buy-in to $120 and split, to pay for an electric bill and some gas for a pickup. Doesn't seem to be a career.
Quote: kewjI happen to agree with you about some of the things that you mentioned. Check mucking, marking cards, capping bets. Cheating is cheating. These players are doing something against the rules. Card counter are playing exactly by the rules. Betting different amounts at different times is not against the rules, hence the table minimum and maximum amounts posted. Thinking is not a crime and should not be grouped in with these others. I even happen to agree about hole-carding. This also is not a crime, and it is the casino's responsibility to not have weak dealers, but the hole-carder, unlike the card counter is not playing by the rules with the information he was intended to have. I won't go as far as to call it cheating, but it is right up against the line, IMO. I am not comfortable with these methods. I did some hole-carding for a brief period, a couple years ago, and decided that I was just not comfortable with that type of play.
You're in the casino. If it's an offense in their eyes, it's an offense on the basis that it is not by the rules. So out you go. I do not make this a basis of a career. And besides, what are you going to do when shortly BJ games become all CSM or full I-Deal tables?
Quote: kewljI am not poor sir, I make a decent living, upper five figures for a number of years in a row now.
Income is not the issue. There are drug dealers, countefeiters, and good burglars who also make mid to upper 5-figures. Granted, that's fully illegal, but on a lesser scale, it is in the same boat of:
1. Being against the ground rules of clean play/a good-faith career basis;
2. arguably parasitic, and;
3. For your sake, time is running out very quickly.
Quote: kewljI just can't afford to pay your salary on top of it and frankly I shouldn't have to.
No, you don't have to and you don't want to, because the better off and good faith players absorb a lot of the expense, even if unbeknownst to them.
Quote: kewljThe casino industry does quite well.
For some. Not for the $7.50/hr dealer who's both struggling and stiffed, eating macaroni and cheese in the squalor of a one-bedoom apartment in North las Vegas vegas. Lots of them. Used to be there, didn't like it.
Quote: kewljThey can afford to pay their employees a decent wage.
Are you the CFO of Boyd gaming here?? No. If they have to bang up salaries, they fire people. I live in Las Vegas, work as a dealer. And theyll offer 6:5 BJ on shoe games with 50% penetration or all CSM. The FURTURE is all I-deal tables, no cheating, no counting. GO to Hooters and see the table, it's doing well. Both Dealers and casino grinders are out of business. It'll Put us both out of business. We won't like that. And it is happening.
Quote: kewljIf you have a point to make, please make it factually and stop with the third grade tactics of this type of name calling and put downs.
Never put you down at any time, friend, just made points and arguments and opinions.
I'm saying I think the game is changing very soon. Blackjack has the lowest table hold (profit kept) of all the table games, and is being addressed. Making a living, even a five-figure living from grinding is on the way out, I believe.
Quote: kewljNow, if this industry that you love much that you defend it with child like name-calling,[??] paid you a decent salary, as they should and certainly can afford to do, we wouldn't be having this conversation and casino employees wouldn't be reduced to begging for tips.
I don't beg for tips. I am in the SIX-digit income bracket, and NOT as a dealer. I just still kept my dealing job over the years. I watch the show, and try to know what's going on.
I've always felt that if you do your job as a dealer, the tips take care of themselves, I have never solicited, worried, or whored for tips. Do your dealing job right (provide customer service) and worry about nothing. I had invented a casino game that has a lot of installs, and is doing very well, and will be leaving casino dealing fairly soon. Money is not the issue for me. The industry is a bit of an issue for me.
Quote: Paigowdanwhat are you going to do when shortly BJ games become all CSM or full I-Deal tables?
You're funny, Dan. Do that and all the heavy players
would disappear. You know that.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't know what game I'll be assigned to, and some of them just don't generate as many tips on average as others.
Could you give us some idea as to where craps, roulette and blackjack and maybe some of the others stand in relation to one another as good or bad sources of tokes.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffWhat I find interesting is when I floor supervise and see my dealers get stiffed it upsets me more than when I got stiffed as a dealer.
Nick, you can't get upset over something you have no
control over. Just shrug it off, its part of the business.
Best Tipped Games: Blackjack, Craps
Medium: Roulette
Carnival Games: Usually good tips on a big win.
For me blackjack is more consistent with players making a dollar, or 50cent bet for the dealer.
Generally The Worst Tippers Are:
Asians, African Americans, Canadians, Europeans
The Best Tippers Are:
People From:
Texas, New York, California, or Local Nevadans.
Of course this is not an all inclusive list, but it is a general observation. It is not meant to be racist. I have had several generous tippers from the categories that I listed as being the worst, and stiffs from the category I listed as being the best. Anyone in the business will likely agree with the trend.
I do not think people from the worst tippers category necessarily intend to be cheap, their tipping customs from home just follow them on their visit to las vegas.
Quote: SanchoPanzaCould you give us some idea as to where craps, roulette and blackjack and maybe some of the others stand in relation to one another as good or bad sources of tokes.
Nick summed it up pretty well. Myself, I do best when dealing BJ to the happy Fri/Sat night crowds. And the "Asian" games are most definitely the worst.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffWorst tipped games : Pai Gow Poker/Tiles, Baccarat, (any asian game)
Best Tipped Games: Blackjack, Craps
Medium: Roulette
Carnival Games: Usually good tips on a big win.
For me blackjack is more consistent with players making a dollar, or 50cent bet for the dealer.
Generally The Worst Tippers Are:
Asians, African Americans, Canadians, Europeans
The Best Tippers Are:
People From:
Texas, New York, California, or Local Nevadans.
Of course this is not an all inclusive list, but it is a general observation. It is not meant to be racist. I have had several generous tippers from the categories that I listed as being the worst, and stiffs from the category I listed as being the best. Anyone in the business will likely agree with the trend.
I do not think people from the worst tippers category necessarily intend to be cheap, their tipping customs from home just follow them on their visit to las vegas.
not trying to be racist? wow, i would hate to see you on a day when you were trying to be racist.
yet another post from a dealer that illustrates why they deserve nothing.
How about the check in person at the desk? If they seem nicer than they have to be, I like leaving a dollar. I know it isn't much, but it has always been greeted witha thank you.
How about the bus driver from the airport to the rental center? If I have a bag he gets a buck, if he hands it to me.
OK guys, I need advice! My pool has lifeguards, who are very friendly, and apparently only get $10 per hour. I chat with them all, and they clearly make my pool time more fun. I have never tipped a lifeguard before, so what to do!? There are around 6 of them that take turns. I know 2 of them are full time teachers who make a good living during the year, and I believe the other 4 are just college kids doing it for a summer job. What would you do, Dan? Or Nick?
If you can afford a few bucks, why not ??
Quote: NicksGamingStuffWhat I find interesting is when I floor supervise and see my dealers get stiffed it upsets me more than when I got stiffed as a dealer. I felt like I never really got a comment on my statement where one poster said $5 an hour is good regardless of the level of betting/winning, (it is fine this is not the point). How about giving a waitress $5 for an hour of service when the check is a couple hundred bucks (lets say one of the fancy las vegas restaurants). Is that okay too?
I agree that would be a poor waitress tip, but find, "Hour of service," to be a non sequitur. In my experience, if I am at a restaurant for an hour, the waitress has probably spent a grand total of about six-seven minutes (guessing) actually in my service. This is actually an argument even more in favor of the dealer, take the time that you spend at the table, subtract deck shuffling/cutting, divide by the number of players at the table (on average) add shuffling/cutting back in, and that is how much time the dealer spent in your service.
I will admit that when I win, the dealer wins. I tip them regardless, but I'll tip better when I am winning. I know they have nothing to do with it, but I just like to spread the love when I have a chance. If I have a decent slot hit, I'll usually go around and see if any of my dealers are left and slide them a red chip just for the Hell of it. I tipped more than that when I hit my most recent jackpot on Slots, though.
Quote: WongBonot trying to be racist? wow, i would hate to see you on a day when you were trying to be racist.
yet another posy from a dealer that illustrates why they deserve nothing.
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Nick is a dealer and specifically stated that there are exceptions, a racist does not believe in exceptions, despite whatever evidence may confront him/her.
Quote: rainmanI asked a dealer this once she said it's because everyone wants the good shift. Since it can't happen to be fair they agree to share.
A dealer where I play, used to work at another where they switched to keeping their own. Turned out that Sunday was a great day for tips, but only half the dealers were scheduled. Then everyone was fighting for Sundays and caused a lot of problems.
Another example. For smaller casinos with very few big players and a ton of fleas, when that big player/tipper comes in, how do you try to get a lot of dealers on that game. The players usually develop a repoir with players. If you give him a different dealer every 20 minutes for a few hours, he might get upset over it. But when a dealer could easily drop $500 in one shoe from the guy, you don't want your other dealers to get pissed they didn't get on the game. It might show favoritism.
Or think about huge wins, like Royal Flush on Mississippi Stud. Usually the guy will tip a couple hundred. Why should that dealer get this huge, most likely once in a lifetime tip just because they were the lucky one that got to deal that Royal Flush. Only a handful of dealers where I work have ever dealt anything that big.
Yes being a more personable dealer might net you an extra $20-25 a night compared to the dull grumpy guy, or just being a young cute girl might net you an extra $50 a night. But a HUGE night in tips has nothing to do with you, it's luck. Pooling takes the luck out of it. I wouldn't stay at a job where I have to get lucky to make decent money.
Quote: WongBonot trying to be racist? wow, i would hate to see you on a day when you were trying to be racist.
yet another posy from a dealer that illustrates why they deserve nothing.
Its not racist when you state the truth. When I played
bac a lot, with mostly Asian players, they rarely and
I mean rarely tipped. When one of them did I almost
did a double take. I talked to dealers about it and
they confirmed that if you had to depend on tips dealing
bac, you'd die.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffWorst tipped games : Pai Gow Poker/Tiles, Baccarat, (any asian game)
Best Tipped Games: Blackjack, Craps
Medium: Roulette
Carnival Games: Usually good tips on a big win.
For me blackjack is more consistent with players making a dollar, or 50cent bet for the dealer.
Generally The Worst Tippers Are:
Asians, African Americans, Canadians, Europeans
The Best Tippers Are:
People From:
Texas, New York, California, or Local Nevadans.
Of course this is not an all inclusive list, but it is a general observation. It is not meant to be racist. I have had several generous tippers from the categories that I listed as being the worst, and stiffs from the category I listed as being the best. Anyone in the business will likely agree with the trend.
I do not think people from the worst tippers category necessarily intend to be cheap, their tipping customs from home just follow them on their visit to las vegas.
Ever watch Louie on FX. One episode there's a scene where he's at the club doing a set, after talks to a white waitress, says "Shit, I just got a big table of blacks" Louie: "Well that's a little racist isn't it." The waitress calls over another waitress who's black. "Hey are black people good tippers." black waitress: "F**K no, everybody knows n****rs don't tip!"
Or something to that effect.
Best games for tips where I work: Mississippi Stud, BJ
Craps is hit or miss but usually pretty bad, along with roulette.
Also the poker room blows the pits tips out of the water, luckily they pool as well. Kinda shitty for them.
Quote: ewjones080One episode there's a scene where he's at the club doing a set, after talks to a white waitress, says "Shit, I just got a big table of blacks" Louie: "Well that's a little racist isn't it." The waitress calls over another waitress who's black. "Hey are black people good tippers." black waitress: "F**K no, everybody knows n****rs don't tip!"
Ever ask a bartender that works in a place that has different themes on different nights about tips? Pretty much universally they'll tell you hip hop night sucks, gay night rocks. I'll let others draw their own conclusions. I wonder how long until I get to be a racist too. WongBo?
Quote: WongBonot trying to be racist? wow, i would hate to see you on a day when you were trying to be racist.
yet another post from a dealer that illustrates why they deserve nothing.
Why is that any time race is mentioned, it is suddenly racist? If Nick is being honest in his observations (and I am assuming that), how is it racist to name the groups of people that tip the best and worst (as a group)? Interestingly enough, I have seen similar information elsewhere regarding tipping...there are some African American servers who don't like getting African American customers because, as a rule, their experience is they get less tips... That also goes for folks from backgrounds where tips are not customary...
This crap of calling any mention of differences between groups of people "racist" is totally out of hand. The TV folks won't say a suspect is ____________ because someone calls it racist.
Racism would be a dealer or casino treating a group of people badly because of their race. Racism isn't observing that certain groups of people tend to tip less.
Quote: EvenBobIts not racist when you state the truth. When I played
bac a lot, with mostly Asian players, they rarely and
I mean rarely tipped. When one of them did I almost
did a double take. I talked to dealers about it and
they confirmed that if you had to depend on tips dealing
bac, you'd die.
Exactly. I played bac at a table with an African American (who happened to be the comedian doing shows at the casino) and a group of Asians. One white guy, one African American, and five or so Asians. My observation was that only the non-Asians were tipping anything at all.
Is that observations somehow racist? No...it is just that...an observation made over many hours of play that evening.
Some definitions would have it that any assumption
that a person's behavior would be influenced by their racial categorization is racist,
regardless of whether the action is intentionally harmful or pejorative...
Racism, also called racialism, is generally defined as actions, practices, or beliefs
that reflect the racial worldview: the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called "races".
This ideology entails the belief that members of a race share a set of characteristic traits, abilities, or qualities,
that traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral characteristics are inherited,
and that this inheritance means that races can be ranked as innately superior or inferior to others.
source:wikipedia
Quote: RonCExactly. I played bac at a table with an African American (who happened to be the comedian doing shows at the casino) and a group of Asians. One white guy, one African American, and five or so Asians. My observation was that only the non-Asians were tipping anything at all.
Is that observations somehow racist? No...it is just that...an observation made over many hours of play that evening.
so these five "asians" were the officially recognized representatives of the 3 billion "asians" on earth?
biggest tip ive ever seen was a purple chip from a chinese baccarat player.
should i just assume that all "white" people are cheap by comparison?
are you aware of the various "asian" beliefs about tipping and how they conduct that behavior?
Quote: WongBoi guess you have to answer that for yourself.
I thought you were the authority on the subject after the way you jumped Nick.
Quote: WongBo
Some definitions would have it that any assumption
that a person's behavior would be influenced by their racial categorization is racist,
regardless of whether the action is intentionally harmful or pejorative...
Wikipedia, really?
Well, I feel good about myself again as I have not made any assumption that a person's behavior would influenced by their racial categorization. I've simply observed behavior and wondered about it. It's ok to wonder about it, right?
Quote: WongBoso these five asian were the officially recognized representatives of the 3 billion asians on earth?
No, of course not. It was an observation that, of the people playing at that table, in that casino, only the African American and White were tipping, the Asians were not. If I saw that day in, day out as a dealer or floor person, I would come have a long-term observation of the tipping habits of various cultures. As long as I did not treat them differently based on their skin color or region of origin, I am not being a "racist"...
Using "racist" too often cheapens what it really is...
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism)
In my opinion, the Wikipedia definition allows the broadest possible use of the term and lessens the impact of it at the same time. Defining it as shown above gets to the heart of the matter...if the pink people tip less than the yellow people, do I treat every pink person differently just because they are pink?
Quote: WongBoare you aware of the asian beliefs about tipping and how they conduct that behavior?
No, but I will do some research on that issue. If I find (or you can tell me) that their culture does not encourage tipping and I make the observation that I do not see Asians tipping as much as others, is that "racist"??? I have not said I am superior, I have not said that there should be policies based on race, and I don't hate them in any way.
I just observed that as a group, at that table, on that night, they tipped less. Nick observed those same type of things with a larger sampling.
you are the one working for tips.
why don't you just say to your ""african american"" and "asian" players:
hey you people are lousy tippers.
Quote: WongBoare you aware of the various "asian" beliefs about tipping and how they conduct that behavior?
Why not enlighten us?
And while we wait, I'll share another observation I've made:
What I've noticed to happen quite frequently, whether it be bacc or bj, is that "Asian" players don't tip much or at all when in the presence of other "Asian" players, but when playing alone often tip at a level close to average. This makes me wonder (hope that's ok, I haven't heard back yet) if there isn't some sort of peer pressure component to the observed behavior.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffWorst tipped games : Pai Gow Poker/Tiles, Baccarat, (any asian game)
Best Tipped Games: Blackjack, Craps
Medium: Roulette
Carnival Games: Usually good tips on a big win.
For me blackjack is more consistent with players making a dollar, or 50cent bet for the dealer.
Generally The Worst Tippers Are:
Asians, African Americans, Canadians, Europeans
The Best Tippers Are:
People From:
Texas, New York, California, or Local Nevadans.
Of course this is not an all inclusive list, but it is a general observation. It is not meant to be racist. I have had several generous tippers from the categories that I listed as being the worst, and stiffs from the category I listed as being the best. Anyone in the business will likely agree with the trend.
I do not think people from the worst tippers category necessarily intend to be cheap, their tipping customs from home just follow them on their visit to las vegas.
I'm going to say it again. I hope your boss doesn't see this. You asked why before so I'll explain. By boss, I was not referring to your buddy in the pit but to the CEO or casino owner.
You are identified on this site by name,casino,job description and shift. You may not be representing the casino when you post but you will certainly be associated with it.
You have told us that players who tip at the end of a session are not as appreciated as those who tip during play. You told us how much you enjoy taking some people's money. They will see that no matter how you try to hide it. You said ,"If you don't tip don't play." That's bizarre because you guys are the ones who said that only 10% of players tip. You're telling 90% of the players in your casino not to play because they don't tip you. Tip or no tip the casino still gets their money unless players take your advice and don't play. Now, in your very limited experience, you are categorizing people based on race and nationality.
I doubt that top casino executives read these forums but they have people who do and I can't imagine that they would appreciate your comments. To avoid driving yourself crazy over tipping, I suggest that you adopt the attitude of the more experienced dealer on this forum and for goodness sake don't say anything that would put you in a bad light with your bosses.
Quote: WongBodude, i couldn't care less,
you are the one working for tips.
why don't you just say to your ""african american"" and "asian" players:
hey you people are lousy tippers.
I read some studies about tipping practices in restaurants and their observations on the tips left by different cultures (on average and without judgment of said culture). Is it just always going to be that way, or should change be encouraged? Without judging, how can I encourage the people that don't tip as much to tip more?
If we observe that a higher % of pink students fail out of school than yellow students, is it racist to try and address the reasons ANYONE is dropping out but to also try and figure out why pinks are doing worse than yellows?
That's the problem with the word. It gets dropped way too often and it means less because of it.
Quote: WongBodude, i couldn't care less,
you are the one working for tips.
You don't care so much that you went to Wikipedia and c/p'd a definition.
And what makes you think I'm a "dude"? Isn't that a sexist assumtion?
Quote: WongBo
why don't you just say to your ""african american"" and "asian" players:
hey you people are lousy tippers.
Um... because I don't believe that to be a true statement.
And why are we putting these words in quotes?
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyWhy not enlighten us?
And while we wait, I'll share another observation I've made:
What I've noticed to happen quite frequently, whether it be bacc or bj, is that "Asian" players don't tip much or at all when in the presence of other "Asian" players, but when playing alone often tip at a level close to average. This makes me wonder (hope that's ok, I haven't heard back yet) if there isn't some sort of peer pressure component to the observed behavior.
you seem to do a lot of wondering, and waiting for enlightenment from others.
maybe if you picked up a book once in a while, or researched a little on the internet,
you could actually learn a little something about the world in which you live.
edit: not trying to be rude, just "taking the piss out of you" as they say in australia
--There are dealers who deal well, take care of everything, never let me forget a bet, and keep it fun. They don't talk about the customers and they don't hustle tips too openly. They acknowledge each tip with a "thank you" even if it is placed as a bet and looses.
It is easy to see that they should be tipped.
--There are dealers who are horrid. They don't know the game, they hurry too much, they don't acknowledge tips and they talk badly about everything.
So I don't want to tip them BUT if I don't, then the good guys loose, too. I understand pooling the tips but a waiter gets a good tip if he gives me good service and a bad one if he doesn't. That makes it easy to reward good service. Since I know that dealers rely on tips as part of their income, I feel subtle pressure to tip all the time so the "good guys" make money.
For me, it'd be easier if they just paid the dealers more and went to $10 table limits with no tips.
Quote: WongBoyou seem to do a lot of wondering, and waiting for enlightenment from others.
maybe if you picked up a book once in a while, or researched a little on the internet,
you could actually learn a little something about the world in which you live.
I thought you had some great wisdom to share, I stand corrected.
I've picked up a few books in my time, they were helpful in getting my college degree.
As for the internet, you cited Wikipedia. If that's your idea of credible we may have to agree to disagree.
Quote: WongBo"dude" is widely considered to be a unisex term of address.
again, look it up.
Not by me, or apparently Random House (they publish books, look it up):
The mavens' word of the day: Dude
Quote: Cara Schneider (The Maven)The original meaning of this American-born word is still its first definition today, 'a man excessively concerned with his clothes, grooming and manners'.
There's more at the link, but it never makes the assertion that you (or Wikipedia) did. I'd encourage you to go check out the link and maybe learn something about the world you live in (and the language you use).
I think it's kind of awesomely ironic that you've gone to some lengths to show that your assumption statement wasn't sexist.
like you said, we will just agree to disagree.
i had not gone to any lengths, but will now...
i can't resist:
"dude is an address term that is used mostly by young men to address other young men;
however, its use has expanded so that it is now used as a general address term for a group (same or mixed gender),
and by and to women."...
Published in American Speech, Vol. 79, No. 3, Fall 2004, pp. 281-305.
A PDF version of the paper (copyright 2004 American Dialect Society) is available here.
i consider this issue closed, if you want to return the discussion to tipping
