Having to tip dealers is ridiculous

Quote: boymimbo

When you start to blame the players for being "too cheap" it's time for you to get out.

I am getting out! Plenty of dealers in the school can fill my spot. They may not be as friendly, or be able to provide good conversation or advisement like I can (I know nobody on this forum cares about either so for here it is a moot point). If nobody tipped for a month the dealers would not threaten to quit, because for many it is the only thing they can do. They would just become more unfriendly to the players and the gaming experience for the players could suffer. Anyway I do agree with the intent of the original poster that casinos should pay the 15-25 wage and have no tips. 99% of dealers would prefer it, but it is just not the way it is. Anyways I am glad for the experience I had dealing, I am sure there will be lots of things I dislike about my next position, but at least the income will be steady.

Quote: midwestgb

The casino industry furnishes its patrons with table games still staffed by human dealers. This may change. But until it does, these folks operate on the very same financial basis as restaurant servers ... The majority of their income is based upon gratuity income.

If you understand this proposition, yet you refuse to offer them any gratuity for their efforts - you take advantage of them. It is that simple.

It is not that simple. The mean surly bastard who is dealing does not earn my tip. The congenial loquacious dealer does. When I tip the one who earns it, the bastard gets his share. I do tip the nice ones, but I always know in the back of my mind that the mean one is getting a piece..... When I tip a waiter I know he keeps it...

Quote: SOOPOO

It is not that simple. The mean surly bastard who is dealing does not earn my tip. The congenial loquacious dealer does. When I tip the one who earns it, the bastard gets his share. I do tip the nice ones, but I always know in the back of my mind that the mean one is getting a piece..... When I tip a waiter I know he keeps it...

When you tip a waiter, he has to tip out to various people depending on the establishment like the people who bring your food to the table, the bus staff, the bartenders etc.

Quote: Gabes22

When you tip a waiter, he has to tip out to various people depending on the establishment like the people who bring your food to the table, the bus staff, the bartenders etc.

Of course there may be exceptions, but the majority of what I give to a waiter stays in his pockets. A surly dealer who gets ZERO tips makes the same as the nice one that gets ALL the tips.

Quote: Lexinger

It's not about tipping; nor, sadly, do they give any of those back after you hit bottom.

Don't waste yourself on that logical ruminating. Just because you're not at the end of your useful life yet doesn't mean to merrily throw the rest of it away as were you. Focus on the black and white stuff, like this little, simple "one to one and onto mapping": guessers are losers; and, losers guess. Gambling is merely such glorified guessing. And, for that matter, there are better ways to thus throw one's life away than taking up desperate residence in some moronic and lifeless casino.

For starters, grab a shower, and go out and buy yourself a good meal. Maybe, clear your head as well. And meet up with a real waitress to tip, and with whom to begin to enjoy a real conversation.

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Quote: MrV

Really, what would be the motivation for a dealer to cheat a player?

Loyalty to a casino?

It is my impression that dealers are dissatisfied these days: tips are down due to the lack of patronage, and policy changes by the casinos have impacted and angered dealers.

Their motivation is they take losing personally. It is rare, but does happen.

Quote: FinsRule

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Glad I wasn't the only one.

Quote: FinsRule

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Glad I wasn't the only one.

That makes 3 of us! At least.....

Quote: Lexinger

Don't waste yourself on that logical ruminating. .

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe

I feel better now.

Quote: rxwine

I feel better now.

Not me. I felt as good before as after. No rollercoaster rides here.

My whole point of starting this thread is that I believe the burden of paying their direct income should be on their employer. The only way to get this to happen is to not tip them.

Then your whole point in starting this thread is based on faulty logic.

Quote: FinsRule

If no one tipped a dealer for a month, all the dealers would threaten to quit, and the casinos would have to give them raises.

OR

What would be most likely is that the casinos would charge players per hour to sit at a table. I'm fine with that. If the casino wants to charge me $2 per hour to sit at a table game, I could choose to play or not. However, I'd rather them just not comp me, and call it even.

On the contrary, what would be most likely to happen is any dealer that threatened to quit would be invited to do so. Then:

- Either the dealer would shut up and get back to work.

or

- The dealer would quit and be replaced by someone else.

You seem to be under some strangely misguided impressions. Do you really think a casino could just snap it's fingers and charge players an hourly rate to sit at the table. The answer is obviously no, there are gaming commission rules to follow. Same with adding an ante to a table game where it hasn't existed before.... can't do it without gaming's approval. Here's a little example: We had a game that our gaming approved IC's (internal control document) said would have a progressive jackpot. We had a version of that game on the floor without it. When gaming realized this, and it didn't take them long, the game was closed down until the necessary electronic bits for the progressive bet could be added. Was it completely reasonable to run the game without the $1 sucking progressive? Absolutely, but it wasn't approved.

I'd say for someone that fancies himself such an expert on what casinos should do you really don't understand much about how they actually function.

delete

Quote: onenickelmiracle

It would cost the casino money having inexperienced dealers in his scenario. If profits went down, the casino would ask the legislators and governors they send all the political contributions to do something about it fast or no more money. I just assume the casinos get something for all the money they donate to politics. Sorry messed up the quotes.

Yes, please work out how to quote properly. You can use the preview button as many times as you like to keep trying until you get it right.

I doubt it would cost them all that much and not for very long. That, in my mind, makes your "call the legislators" scenario very unlikely. I think perhaps you also aren't that well versed in casino-ology; they are very slow to change their methods even if they aren't working very well or there are demonstrable alternatives that work better. The idea that dealers, even if unionized, could force change isn't just improbable, it's laughably impossible.

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

Yes, please work out how to quote properly. You can use the preview button as many times as you like to keep trying until you get it right.

I doubt it would cost them all that much and not for very long. That, in my mind, makes your "call the legislators" scenario very unlikely. I think perhaps you also aren't that well versed in casino-ology; they are very slow to change their methods even if they aren't working very well or there are demonstrable alternatives that work better. The idea that dealers, even if unionized, could force change isn't just improbable, it's laughably impossible.

I know I agree about the main point. Such an idea could work only theoretically like the story where all the women in the world all agreeing to be abstinent to get the men to stop war. Politicians act as fast as they feel the need to though. If they felt it was important, they would do something about it as quickly as possible like when passing TARP.

Monkey, not sure what the deal is with your tone.

But anyway, here in Illinois, casinos can and have already charged people to play table games. So the casino could "snap its fingers" (note - learn the difference between its and it's) and charge players an hourly rate to sit at the table.

If the most screwed up state in the country can do it, I'm sure Nevada, which relies very heavily on income from gaming, could pass a law. And, like the other guy said, legislators have a way of passing things in a hurry if they need to.

Tipping is one of the best deals around.

Look at it this way:

When you pay for something, you have little say in the price. This is not true for everything, but it is for virtually all everyday expenses. Things like groceries, meals, coffee, clothes, cab rides, etc. There are a number of costs which go into determining the price,a s well as other factors. All of them set by someone else. These include labor, often as a big chunk.

So when you're faced with tipping a person providing a service, you have a free hand to determine the price of such service. That's a really good deal. You can pay as much as you think the service is worth, by any metric you like and any factors you choose. If tipping did not exist, you'd lose that ability.

Now, I'm not saying tipping is great for those who receive tips. After all, too many people miss the point entirely (see this thread). And some servers, dealers, etc also miss the point of ebing pleasant, polite, etc (not obsequious or servile, though, not in my view). But for me it is a very good deal. I'd hate to see meal prices jump 15-20%, or casino limits rise to $10-$15.

As an added bonus, sometimes you can get the casino to pay the dealer tips for you. For example a hardways bet for the boys is great for both parties if it hits. A two-way hardway is even better, as the dealer now is playing with you all the way.

Of course many will disagree, and would sooner rip a kidney off with their bare hands than tip a dealer $5.

Quote: Nareed

Tipping is one of the best deals around.

Look at it this way:

When you pay for something, you have little say in the price. This is not true for everything, but it is for virtually all everyday expenses. Things like groceries, meals, coffee, clothes, cab rides, etc. There are a number of costs which go into determining the price,a s well as other factors. All of them set by someone else. These include labor, often as a big chunk.

So when you're faced with tipping a person providing a service, you have a free hand to determine the price of such service. That's a really good deal. You can pay as much as you think the service is worth, by any metric you like and any factors you choose. If tipping did not exist, you'd lose that ability.

Now, I'm not saying tipping is great for those who receive tips. After all, too many people miss the point entirely (see this thread). And some servers, dealers, etc also miss the point of ebing pleasant, polite, etc (not obsequious or servile, though, not in my view). But for me it is a very good deal. I'd hate to see meal prices jump 15-20%, or casino limits rise to $10-$15.

As an added bonus, sometimes you can get the casino to pay the dealer tips for you. For example a hardways bet for the boys is great for both parties if it hits. A two-way hardway is even better, as the dealer now is playing with you all the way.

Of course many will disagree, and would sooner rip a kidney off with their bare hands than tip a dealer $5.

I couldn't disagree more. The things I, as a consumer, have the biggest influence in the final cost of the price are prices I can negotiate myself, such as real estate, automobiles, jewelry, furniture and electronics.

Quote: Gabes22

I couldn't disagree more. The things I, as a consumer, have the biggest influence in the final cost of the price are prices I can negotiate myself, such as real estate, automobiles, jewelry, furniture and electronics.

Fine. So go into a restaurant and negotiate the price of your meal. Go into a casino and negotiate minimum bet limits.

Quote: Nareed

Fine. So go into a restaurant and negotiate the price of your meal. Go into a casino and negotiate minimum bet limits.

I am not saying you can march into a casino and negotiate bet limits or march into a restaurant and tell them what to charge you. Whether or not you tip is not going to change that fact.

deleted

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I do this all the time. I always ask to gave the minimums raised so I can get less players and more hands per hour.

Me too. If the other tables are too crowded, I'll walk over to a dead table and say "Gee, I'd like to play with you, but only if you lower the minimum." They usually do.

Quote: Gabes22

I am not saying you can march into a casino and negotiate bet limits or march into a restaurant and tell them what to charge you. Whether or not you tip is not going to change that fact.

If you want to argue the point, then argue the point.

I don't follow your logic Nareed, nor do I quite understand your hostility. You said tipping at a blackjack table allows you to set bet limits. I say you can't. What is there for me to argue?

Quote: Gabes22

I don't follow your logic Nareed, nor do I quite understand your hostility.

I've very little patience for obtuse statements.

Quote:

You said tipping at a blackjack table allows you to set bet limits.

No. I said tipping, in part, allows the casino to retain lower limits longer. If not for inflation, lower limits could be sustained indefinitely.

So if you wan to argue the point I made, do argue it. Don't argue points I didn't make.

I just don't agree with any of it. Tipping at the BJ table has no correlation whatsoever with casinos keeping lower bet limits around longer, as tips are shared amongst the employees and not kept by the house. Once again, I fail to see your logic,

Not tipping the dealer is trespassing!

Quote: Gabes22

I just don't agree with any of it. Tipping at the BJ table has no correlation whatsoever with casinos keeping lower bet limits around longer, as tips are shared amongst the employees and not kept by the house. Once again, I fail to see your logic,

Labor costs in service industries are a big factor in pricing. If the casino has to increase labor costs, it has to find the money to do so by raising some prices. That might mean either raising the minimum bet limits or the house edge.

Of course this happens anyway, through inlfation if nothing else. Also because of other costs incurred by some casinos (like City Center and other massive liabilities).

Quote: Nareed

Labor costs in service industries are a big factor in pricing. If the casino has to increase labor costs, it has to find the money to do so by raising some prices. That might mean either raising the minimum bet limits or the house edge.

Of course this happens anyway, through inlfation if nothing else. Also because of other costs incurred by some casinos (like City Center and other massive liabilities).

But, you are paying the same price anyway. I fail to see how the net bill at a restaurant would be cheaper if you didn't have to tip the employees? A $200 restaurant bill with 10% sales tax and 20% tip now equals $260. If we didn't have to tip because the employer paid the wait staff more, the end bill would still wind up being at right around that $260 out the door price, it's not like that dinner you pay $260 out the door for now is all of a sudden going to be $350 out the door.

And as far as the casinos go, what keeps the lower limits out there longer are the terrible rules like 6:5 BJ, not tips.

Nareed is right. There is a great deal of price sensitivity with regards to table limits and dealer wages. If the casino started a no tipping policy and instead paid its dealers $20/hour, you would have to start table limits higher due to the increased labor costs.

Low limit table games do not make the casinos alot of money. It's generally the higher limit games that make money for the casinos. You see this in Ontario where the dealers are paid $10/hour more than their counterparts across the river -- table limits start higher here because the casino otherwise would lose money on $5 blackjack, $5 crap, and $10 pai gow.

For restaurants, the price sensitivity is really connected to the market and the quality of the food, not the tip. Besides, tipping at restaurants really is known to be expected. It's widely known that 10-20% is the norm, and I rarely run into people who don't tip at restaurants. Casinos are different, because the method of tipping is unknown and the way that you give a tip is dependent upon the game, and the value of the service is really unknown. In addition, the work is pooled. Six of you are sitting at the table, ordering different items, on different budgets, and there is no bill at the end of the meal to tip on.

deleted

I agree the low limit tables don't make the casinos a lot of money, which is why they subsidize them with poor rules like 6:5 BJ or only doubling on a 10 or 11 or dealer hits soft 17 or no DAS

Quote: Gabes22

But, you are paying the same price anyway.

No. For one thing the price would go up to a full 15%-20% of the odl price in msot places. More at lower-end places probably.

Next, as you remove much of the incentive for good service, quality is likely to go down. Only so far, naturally, as restaurant managers would overall not keep bad servers around. But the extra effort would be gone.

But if you are saving the 15-20% from the tip, the increase in the bill of 15-20% is a net wash. The only winner would be the government in taxing on $240 instead of $200.

Quote: boymimbo

Nareed is right.

Always.

Except on those ocassions when I'm not.

Quote:

For restaurants, the price sensitivity is really connected to the market and the quality of the food, not the tip.

It depends.

Food is surprisingly cheap in many ways, though some specialty items can be hellishly expensive. A high-end restaurant probably spends a lot more on a famous chef, rent, maintenance and writing off the initial investment (which is HUGE for such palces; look at the decor). Often the difference between such places and cheaper ones is in the kitchen rather than the pantry. Not all of it, more so when it comes to specialties.

I should think cheaper places would have larger increases, percentage-wise, than more expensive joints.

Quote: Gabes22

I agree the low limit tables don't make the casinos a lot of money

My understanding, at least where I work, is that $5 (the cheapest we have) tables don't make any money, usually lose money in fact. So why have them? Loss leader. There are only so many seats, once they're full and you've come out to play you'll likely go to a higher minimum table, or (even better) go play slots for a while.

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

On the contrary, what would be most likely to happen is any dealer that threatened to quit would be invited to do so. Then:

- Either the dealer would shut up and get back to work.

or

- The dealer would quit and be replaced by someone else.

Perfect example of the bargaining power of individuals, which is about zip. That's where collective bargaining and unions would come into the picture. Assuming they had an interest in eliminating tipping. I don't know that that's an issue they've had about tipping, though I think they've pursued other issues (Wynn dealer and supervisors?)

Quote: FinsRule

Monkey, not sure what the deal is with your tone.

I don't know what you're referring to unless you think you can hear my voice when you read my posts. If so, seek help.

Quote: FinsRule

But anyway, here in Illinois, casinos can and have already charged people to play table games. So the casino could "snap its fingers"

I don't know the history of gaming in Illinois, but I'll put up what I know about the gaming industry in general against the wild assumption you're making if you'd like. My guess would be the ability to do so was already "on the books" so to speak and it was just a matter of pulling the trigger. I say this because it can take a near act of God to get our gaming commission to swap out a shuffler that's become discouraged with it's lot in life. Getting the to allow us to fundamentally alter how a game is played would be nothing short of miracle if it's to happen via finger snap. Otherwise I'd expect at least a 6-12 month process.

Quote: FinsRule

(note - learn the difference between its and it's)

Note - learn that no one appreciates a grammar nazi and if you're bored enough to try to attack me on this point try Nareed instead, teh rreors aer rapmant in her pstos.

Quote: FinsRule

If the most screwed up state in the country can do it, I'm sure Nevada, which relies very heavily on income from gaming, could pass a law. And, like the other guy said, legislators have a way of passing things in a hurry if they need to.

I'm sure any state could get the law passed eventually if the gaming company pursued it, but there's the rub. They would fire all the dealers and hire new ones, probably several times over before even thinking of going that route. But don't take my word for it, gain an audience with any DTG (if you can...*) and ask them what their response would be to a dealer mutiny. Also consider most states (that I know of) have a limited number of casinos they will license period. If one went down the drain due to all the revenue lost from incompetent new dealers (unlikey at best) there would be another company waiting to snatch up the license.

And remind me again why there's a fire under any legislators ass to help out a casino. I'm pretty sure the competing casino that takes over the property or builds their own will be perfect capable of making campaign contributions. So, how are legislators losing out again? Someone cynical might even be inclined to believe such contributions might influence who gets awarded the vacated spot. If you subscribe to this school of thought then it's (did I use that to your satisfaction?) not out of the question that legislators just might sit around on their hands waiting for the dealer mutiny to bring down the casino just to see how much they can make off the contribution bidding war that would result.

Anyhow, unless I'm mistaken you've never been employed in the gaming industry so you actually have no idea what you're talking about, and your position is based solely on a opinion which you have extracted from your backside. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


* I've had numerous occasions to speak with the DTG's at the houses I've worked for and while this issue was never directly broached it doesn't take much imagination to extrapolate what the answer would be based the answers to other queries.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Casinos can't afford to pay dealers minimum wage and have $1, $2, $3 limits anymore. Maybe in the 60's but not now.

Quite true. Things have changed both in fact and in the minds of the MBA types who issue policy statements that the casino minions must abide by.

There is often a position known as The Pencil...this is the guy who keeps everyone assigned to certain rotations and certain games. As the ebb and flow of crowds and their whims change, some games become popular some wane in popularity. The Pencil will decide which tables get manned even if empty and which tables stay manned even if empty. The Pencil determines posted minimum bet levels.

Casinos will always accommodate the large bettor. Approach an empty BJ table and tell the dealer you want 300 minimum and suddenly the 300 dollar sign and a suit will appear. The suit will know that you want to play alone and will discourage gawkers and well as legitimate players who might be tempted to join the game at the 300 dollar level.

Your tipping will be noted but will not affect their staffing levels. Who they have on what boards and how many they call in from the On Call Board is not affected by tipping. The casino knows that without tips you would have a salaried dealer and the casino also knows that most players do not want a bored, I-get-the-same-salary-no-matter-what dealer. Players generally want a dealer who is alert and attentive, even if players don't quite like the tipping system they are forced to embrace.

Tips are an inefficient economic motivator and in particular shared tips are even more inefficient, but they are not ineffective. They work. They just don't work all that well or all that precisely, but they work.

Abolish tips and sure there would be tremendous staffing changes. So what? Most players are already in the casino and do not affect how many dealers will show up for the next shift. Some players can affect how many dealers make the EO (Early Out) list and many players certainly affect how many dealers want to make the EO list, but in general players do not have an immediate effect on staffing levels through the player's tipping behavior.

We tip. Its the right and proper thing to do. The pendulum may be swinging a bit too far with all these greased palms elsewhere but on the casino floor right now, we tip. Some casinos have weird sharing schemes that dilute tipping effectiveness, but we tip. Its the system. Tips can really motivate a dealer or tips can be utterly useless to motivate a dealer but at least we have a chance at getting a dealer who will be alert, attentive and wholeheartedly doing his best for us because we are winning and he is well motivated.

Quote: DanMahowny

Quote: 1BB

Unlike the non tipper the thieving dealer can be arrested, prosecuted and sentenced. What if I said expecting tips is like going to the welfare office and expecting a hand out?

What have we learned about people in the service industry? They have an incredible sense of entitlement. They look down on the people they are supposed to serve. They are a frustrated lot who refuse to do their best unless their blackmail demands are met in the form of tipping. Those not in compliance will face a dealer who will try to make them lose and who will rob them. They will face a floor who will not give them the comps that they have earned and a server who will spit in their food. Daring to ask for an upgrade will result in being relegated to an inferior room.

Do these things make one feel better? I think not because the person it's directed at will never know. That must be so frustrating. Its not like getting into the ring and giving your opponent a good beat down. That would be satisfying and fair not cowardly and sneaky. I have more respect for the men and women holding up signs at stop lights asking for money. At least they won't spit in my food. You know what? I give them money.

The public didn't put you in your job you did. If you don't like it you have a choice.

This is the best non-tipper post I've ever read. Excellent job, sir.

I kinda disagree here. Not completely, because I agree with some of it. If you truly don't like dealing, don't deal.

EVERYONE hates their job sometimes, and loves it sometimes. Just because I can come in to work and decide everyone is an asshole doesn't make me a bad person. It makes me a human. And a dealer can come in that way, and still go out and give her players a good experience.

We played a couple days last week. I laid down a lot of tips. I'm no better or worse than anyone who didn't tip. You don't want to tip, don't do it, and don't be pressured into it.

To the dealers who are arguing with the non tippers: Please stop. They are not stealing a service. You are not in the business of making tips, you are in the business of creating happy players. Some players are happier tipping, and some players are happier not tipping. Find your partner and dance.

Nobody has to tip dealers. Thank God I said it and the thread is over.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Nobody has to tip dealers. Thank God I said it and the thread is over.

Just imagine if all threads on this board worked this way. Someone comes in, makes a one line declarative statement, and declares that there will be no more discussion.

That's not the way forums work. What's wrong with spirited debate?

Quote: Gabes22

But if you are saving the 15-20% from the tip, the increase in the bill of 15-20% is a net wash. The only winner would be the government in taxing on $240 instead of $200.

The bill would increase more than 15-20% though. Now that the business is paying the employee a higher wage, it is also paying higher payroll taxes, SS taxes, etc. It's not going to absorb those; It's going to pass those additional increases on to the consumer (on top of the actual employee wage increase).

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Nobody has to tip dealers. Thank God I said it and the thread is over.

No one has to tip waiters/waitresses at restaurants, either. It's just more douchey to stiff a tip at a restaurant in the US vs. a casino table game.

I do like sharing my tokes with my coworkers because we are all a "team". It was annoying though, Sunday I dropped close to $400 in tokes and my share was $65 :(

I have no problem tipping dealers, as long as they are doing a good job. as somewhat of a "novice" gambler, I do occasionally need a pointer or 2 on the bets. If theyre willing to provide friendly assistance when I ask, I have no problem throwing a side bet out there for the crew, or after a strong hit tipping outright. I usually will throw a buck on each of the hard ways fo the crew while playing craps.

Quote: hagen49

I have no problem tipping dealers, as long as they are doing a good job. as somewhat of a "novice" gambler, I do occasionally need a pointer or 2 on the bets. If theyre willing to provide friendly assistance when I ask, I have no problem throwing a side bet out there for the crew, or after a strong hit tipping outright. I usually will throw a buck on each of the hard ways fo the crew while playing craps.

Dealers can be helpful at some games but I would never seek their advice at the blackjack table. If they were given a basic strategy test most would fail. The sharp ones on this forum are the exception. On the bright side, if you do take the dealers advice you won't get yelled at by the other players.

If I don't get yelled at at least once a day I start to wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

Quote: 1BB

Dealers can be helpful at some games but I would never seek their advice at the blackjack table. If they were given a basic strategy test most would fail. The sharp ones on this forum are the exception. On the bright side, if you do take the dealers advice you won't get yelled at by the other players.

The sad part is if you know they give good advice then you don't need their advice. I still remember the poker dealer who argued for nearly an hour that she could affect the table by her third base plan (note: this happened before a party night, not at a real table.) Since then I have learned when a dealer talks about such superstition to say, "what about sports, do you like sports??????)

Quote:

If I don't get yelled at at least once a day I start to wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

I've only been yelled at once, but it was great. To know you are in the right and be able to sit there while some mamaluke goes crazy.

I met a very good dealer at Paris this past weekend who quoted this site often when asked about plays at the blackjack table -he was very knowledgeable and fun to play with - thus he got lots of tips from us.

Quote: 1BB

Dealers can be helpful at some games but I would never seek their advice at the blackjack table. If they were given a basic strategy test most would fail. The sharp ones on this forum are the exception. On the bright side, if you do take the dealers advice you won't get yelled at by the other players.

If I don't get yelled at at least once a day I start to wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

Last week, playing PG Tiles, I had the DEALER "yell" at me for playing my hand "wrong." I was dealt low 2, 5, low 8, and high 8, and without thinking about it at all, I set my hand as 6-7. It lost to the dealer's 9-9, and she started loudly complaining that I should have played 3-gong, which is the house way. I started explaining to her that the house way is not always optimal, it's just a good enough strategy to earn the house a profit while keeping things simple for the dealer. But she wouldn't have it... she said "I've been dealing this game for 10 years, and 3-gong you have to play there."

Never mind the fact that the expected value of 6-7 is +2.4% and the EV of 3-gong is -6% ...

You just can't listen to dealers when it comes to strategy. And there's no way I am going to tip a dealer for making me feel uncomfortable about how I (correctly) play my hand for my money. Sorry but she didn't drop any tips the entire time.

Quote: rainman

I hung sheet rock for two years for less than what a dealer makes. If your not familiar this entails lifting 80-120 pound sheets all day every day one after the other. Nobody ever tipped me :) It made me strong and damaged one of my shoulders 20yrs later it still don't work right. :) Everybody always speaks as if I'm against the employee nothing is further from the truth Its the employers paying chump change and expecting me to pick up the slack that bothers me.

I don`t know where you hung sheetrock,but I hung sheetrock for 10 years and was making 800 to 1200 a week and that was 25 years ago.