Hot Blonde Challenge
Quote: HotBlondeI asked him if I should stop PT and stop doing the things at home that James had shown me and surprisingly he said no, to continue doing these things. He said, "You know the saying, 'No pain, no gain'", which caused me to laugh but not in a humorous way.
I can't stand doctors who make light of pain. I don't trust them, either. Did the PT guy say anything about the pain possibly getting worse? If not, you should let him know it did. Perhaps he should change things.
You really need to see a specialist. I think you mentioned you have an appointment set up. It can't come too soon.
I think that it would be helpful if you applied this power of thought to you back pain. I'm no expert at this, but based on what you said about your MRI, it seems that you will most likely have to go through a lot of physical therapy which hopefully will help you overcome the pain so you wont have to go through surgery, which doesn't always help with discogenic lower back pain. Modifying your thoughts may help during the road to recovery, which I hope will be speedy. For example, use the same analogy as you use about the poor hungry kid and apply it to your back.
Anyway, I appreciate your insighful response and will use it in my own quest to lose weight. Anyone wany to take odds. I bet 10:1 that I won't make it :) just kidding... Hopefully, I can be as successful as you. Wish you the best.
Quote: HotBlondeI don't like using stationary bikes for my cardio so I don't use them. I do ride my bike for transportation though, but not for exercise.
It could be the cause, or partial cause of you pain. Once you're weight is down more, regular riding probably won't bother you.
It might not be that at all; just a suggestion.
Since I've been wearing my brace I've been switching between the elliptical and the StairMaster. I was considering adding in the StairClimber just before this new issue arose. But I may still do that. My PT James said I shouldn't be exercising at 80% of my MHR like I was but that I should go down to 60% but work out for longer. I'm gonna take his advice and do that. So now I'll be working out for 60 min instead of 45.Quote: rdw4potusWhat do you use instead? Hopefully something low-impact, given your back issues?
James did not say anything about the pain possibly getting worse, and I did tell him throughout our appointment that it was still hurting. My appointment with the back specialist is Aug 1st. So I have another week and a half to wait.Quote: NareedDid the PT guy say anything about the pain possibly getting worse? If not, you should let him know it did. Perhaps he should change things.
You really need to see a specialist. I think you mentioned you have an appointment set up. It can't come too soon.
Well Katie talks about pain as well and that is the one part I don't understand. She does say pain is in the mind and that it's just a memory. For example if I say I am in pain I am talking about pain I felt a second ago. Basically, from what I understand her saying, the only moment we have is NOW and pain can't exist in this very moment. Still can't wrap my head around that but it's something I'm interested in understanding.Quote: QuadCoreThat was a great response to my question HB. I think that everyone would agree that being able to understand and control your thoughts can have a great positive impact on your life. It is very intersting and inspirational to see how you have applied this to losing weight and controlling your intake. Reading some of the stuff you wrote, I felt that I could really relate especially the part where you develop such an unhealthy attachment to food and where food is interconnected with other negative emotions. Anyway, thank you for your insight.
I think that it would be helpful if you applied this power of thought to you back pain. I'm no expert at this, but based on what you said about your MRI, it seems that you will most likely have to go through a lot of physical therapy which hopefully will help you overcome the pain so you wont have to go through surgery, which doesn't always help with discogenic lower back pain. Modifying your thoughts may help during the road to recovery, which I hope will be speedy. For example, use the same analogy as you use about the poor hungry kid and apply it to your back.
Anyway, I appreciate your insighful response and will use it in my own quest to lose weight. Anyone wany to take odds. I bet 10:1 that I won't make it :) just kidding... Hopefully, I can be as successful as you. Wish you the best.
I don't think my pain has anything to do with my bicycle. I've been experiencing back pain for over 3 1/2 years and only got my bike recently.Quote: rxwineIt could be the cause, or partial cause of you pain. Once you're weight is down more, regular riding probably won't bother you.
It might not be that at all; just a suggestion.
Quote: HotBlondeWell Katie talks about pain as well and that is the one part I don't understand. She does say pain is in the mind and that it's just a memory. For example if I say I am in pain I am talking about pain I felt a second ago. Basically, from what I understand her saying, the only moment we have is NOW and pain can't exist in this very moment. Still can't wrap my head around that but it's something I'm interested in understanding.
My understanding of that is that Katie Byron is a quack and a charlatan. Maybe if people keep paying her money they will understand it. Or maybe everybody who has been to medical school are the ones who are right and pain does exist in the present.
Quote: HotBlondeWell Katie talks about pain as well and that is the one part I don't understand. She does say pain is in the mind and that it's just a memory. For example if I say I am in pain I am talking about pain I felt a second ago. Basically, from what I understand her saying, the only moment we have is NOW and pain can't exist in this very moment. Still can't wrap my head around that but it's something I'm interested in understanding.
I had heard of people mentally managing pain, but never really found any idea that seemed to work, until one time I read about a cancer patient who was taught to treat pains as her "old friend". It might sound odd, but that clicked for me.
Welcome old friend -- it is like it turns pain into something that exists outside you. There is you, and this thing that is with you. You are still aware of it, but it makes it better somehow.
Well, it worked for me, I can't say whether it makes sense for anyone else.
Quote: WizardMy understanding of that is that Katie Byron is a quack and a charlatan. Maybe if people keep paying her money they will understand it. Or maybe everybody who has been to medical school are the ones who are right and pain does exist in the present.
Of course pain exists in the present for those afflicted. Earlier in my career, I was a pain management 'specialist'. I will say assessing someone's pain, and then treating it safely and successfully, is one of the most difficult tasks in all of medicine. I'll go to the ER and see a patient with multiple shattered limbs and he'll say it hurts a bit. The next patient with a single fracture that is not displaced will be moaning uncontrollably. One patient I give a milligram of dilaudid and they are pain free, the next patient will tell me that I gave them nothing after I have given them 2 milligrams.
Confounding the treatment of pain is the secondary motive of some professing to be in pain, the motive being to either get the prescriptions for personal abuse, or sale to others. The number of people professing to be in severe pain without any physical findings, is staggering. What is a doctor to do? If you write the prescription you are a 'pill pusher'. If you don't you are 'insensitive to your patients needs'.
About a decade ago because of the above I gave up the chronic pain management business.
Quote: HotBlondeWell Katie talks about pain as well and that is the one part I don't understand. She does say pain is in the mind and that it's just a memory. For example if I say I am in pain I am talking about pain I felt a second ago. Basically, from what I understand her saying, the only moment we have is NOW and pain can't exist in this very moment.
She's obviously never had electrolysis. All the pain there is entirely in the present. Chronic pain is there all the time, that's what makes it chronic. And I don't know about other people, but I can't remember pain unless I make an effort to do so. I think if I could, I'd have quit electrolysis after the first appointment. Anyway, I can recall, say, banging my knee against the desk easily, but I don't recall the pain I felt unless I deliberately try to, and then only with some difficulty.
I suppose there can be psychological pain, but usually f something hurts there's a physical reason for it.
I have had issues with back pain for many years, and those were not anywhere near the level of what HB has. There was no way I could just ride in a cab when I was having the pain. Any trip I had to take would turn into an adventure. It would take me 30 minutes to get into the car and position myself there in a way that makes the pain bearable (so that I would only moan when the car hits a bump on the road as opposed to screaming for the whole trip), and even longer to get out. And if I had to do it without assistance, it was almost impossible.
I could not even sleep for weeks in a row. Nobody would give me Dilaudin, it never even came up. I tried taking Vicoding, but it did not make very much difference on the pain, so I quit. I just had to learn to live with it. Not just to walk around, but actually function - go to work, run chores, care for kids etc. ... the hardest part was to sleep at night, but I had to manage that too. I have always thought that women naturally have higher pain tolerance than most men, BTW. (Makes me wonder if HB has or plans on ever having kids.)
It would never occur to me to go to an ER with this, even though I do have insurance. I am just used to thinking, that ER is for life-threatening conditions, which this one obviously isn't. I see going there for pain management a bit like using a handicapped parking spot ... that's even if you know it will be paid of in full - perhaps, you want to do it, perhaps, you even think you can't get around without it, but the truth is - yes, you can, and by using it, you are taking away essential resources from people, who actually really need it.
So, I had to just make an appointment with a neurologist and wait for my turn. I have seen a few different docs, and heard a few different things from them, but if there was a consistent advice I was hearing for all those years, it was:
- Never attempt any PT or massage while you are in pain. It will make things worse, and
- Whatever you do, never ever apply heat to where it hurts. It may look like it helps for a bit, but the final result is that it aggravates the pain because of increased nerve inflammation.
heat often adds pressure to an area by increasing the bloodflow and the accumulation of fluids.
as with any sport injury, ice is always better for the first 2-3 days.
i have had terrible muscular spasms that contort my spine,
to the point that a chiropractor i saw thought i had scoliosis.
i was surprised how relieved i was by the application of ice.
Quote: WizardMy understanding of that is that Katie Byron is a quack and a charlatan. Maybe if people keep paying her money they will understand it. Or maybe everybody who has been to medical school are the ones who are right and pain does exist in the present.
It's Byron Katie and there are many who believe her advice is dangerous. The term self help is fitting for people of that ilk because they help themselves to other people's money.
I started a poll about her back in January but it fizzled out. Feel free to look it up and express your opinions.
So go a few days without a shower... just double-dose the bedsheets with your perfume.
You'll be fine.
Quote: HotBlondeI don't think there's anything wrong with going to the ER for help. That's what they are there for.
Well, sort of. After HB's first visit to an ER for this pain issue her care should have been taken over by either a neurosurgeon or orthopedic surgeon. If either of them decided she was not a candidate for surgery then her care should be referred to a primary care physician (internist, family practitioner) or pain management specialist. Then one doctor, who assumed care, would know the whole story and be able to follow a coherent plan. Continually going to an ER seeing a different doctor and nurse each time is very inefficient. Also, the ER doctor really is just trying to take care of the 'emergency' aspect of your care, and refer you to someone else for follow up.
The ER is not there for repeated trips for the same condition, which results in the same treatment plan.... some narcotics, some rest, then back out the door.
HB has been trying for quite some while to get a doctor to see her (read her posts about her changing appointments) who will hopefully be able to take 'ownership' of her problem.
Once she is under that doctor's care she can call that doctor, rather than just keep going to the ER.
ER visits are far more costly, either to the patient, if they will pay, or the hospital, if they have to eat the costs, than a regular doctor's office visit.
Quote: HotBlondeI don't think there's anything wrong with going to the ER for help. That's what they are there for.
Nope. It isn't what they are there for. Just like handicapped spots aren't there for you to park when all other spots are taken.
They are there for life threatening emregencies.
Quote:I am in a lot of pain. And today now I can't walk or stand without being in pain, and it's really depressing.
Think of it this way. Some people, can't also sit or lay down without being in pain either. And they live with it.
It's only depressing because you think of it as something remarkable and unbearable. It isn't really. It's just pain.
Quote: SOOPOO
HB has been trying for quite some while to get a doctor to see her .
Oh ... Maybe, she'd have better luck in Canada?
(This is just reminiscent of the other thread. I find it amusing how people like to point out the availability of care in US as opposed to ... the rest of the world ... until someone really needs to get some).
Quote: FleaStiffThat's okay... if you are a Hot Blonde, you know how to get men to come over and be there when they are needed. So go a few days without a shower... just double-dose the bedsheets with your perfume. You'll be fine.
This is going too far. It was mean and certainly ungentlemanly. 3-day suspension.
That aside, I hope things get better for you, HB. I hope you're able to get a primary care doctor who is familiar with your situation and figures out what is causing the pain. Can you call in European Hottie in case of emergency?
Quote: teddysUm, not that I want to argue the point too much, but wasn't that a compliment?
What are you referring to by "that"?
Quote: FinsRuledid anyone actually physically verify that HB's weight was 250 before this bet commenced?
We have the picture of HB's scale. I can verify I saw her a few months before it started and 250 would have seemed about right at that time.
Quote: FinsRuleOnce again, sorry if this has been brought up in the thread before, but did anyone actually physically verify that HB's weight was 250 before this bet commenced?
HB took apicture of herself on a scale and it read 250.8lbs. At that point the Wiz attested that he recognized HB (I had not met her in person yet) and she weighed around that much. All those who participated in the challenge were aware of this.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffI never bet on the HB challenge, but I am wondering if it is still on since HB is sick.
I'm guessing you haven't read all 1200 posts or so......
Quote: weaselmanNope. It isn't what they are there for. Just like handicapped spots aren't there for you to park when all other spots are taken.
They are there for life threatening emregencies.
Think of it this way. Some people, can't also sit or lay down without being in pain either. And they live with it.
It's only depressing because you think of it as something remarkable and unbearable. It isn't really. It's just pain.
You definitely have got nerve. The ER is there for people who need emergent care. It's not just there for life-threatening situations only. And it's not "just pain" as you so put it. You've never been in severe pain otherwise you wouldn't make a comment like that.
I have an appointment with the back specialist August 1st and then an appointment with my PCP October 1st. The ER that I went to in Burbank this weekend is going to put me in touch with social services tomorrow and they are going to find me a place I can go for pain management. Hopefully that'll help me since I'm pretty limited in activities I can do right now unfortunately. (I was only able to go to the gym 4 times this last week instead of 6 due to the escalated pain situation, but I didn't eat at all yesterday nor today to make up for it. Hopefully I'll be happy with my weigh-in tomorrow morning.)Quote: WizardThat aside, I hope things get better for you, HB. I hope you're able to get a primary care doctor who is familiar with your situation and figures out what is causing the pain. Can you call in European Hottie in case of emergency?
And ironically I'm not friends with EuropeanHottie any more for just that reason. I needed her help when I was in a painful and emergent situation and she dropped the ball. I don't want to go into detail here, I can PM you about it if you want, but I learned real quickly she is not someone I can count on.
Even though I am in an unfortunate position I could say that I would still consider a new bet. I am not 100% confident of myself any more but still want to proceed. If I end up hospitalized on life-support then I would want to reconsider but pain and lack of exercise can't definitely thwart my success. At least I don't hope so. And the rules only said no diuretics and no weight loss surgery, it didn't say I couldn't eat very little.Quote: NicksGamingStuffI never bet on the HB challenge, but I am wondering if it is still on since HB is sick.
Quote: HotBlondeYou definitely have got nerve. The ER is there for people who need emergent care. It's not just there for life-threatening situations only.
I don't know what you mean by "nerve" or by "emergent care" for that matter. I am simply telling you what my insurance once said, and ER personnel confirmed to me on several different occasions. It is not for treating chronic conditions, even those that cause discomfort. ER is for emergencies. "Emergency" is a life threatening situation.
Quote:And it's not "just pain" as you so put it. You've never been in severe pain otherwise you wouldn't make a comment like that.
Like I said before. I have been in pain for years, and, from your description, yours is nothing like the pain I was in. Unfortunately, I do know more than just a thing or two about pain. But I will agree with you, that I have not really been in severe pain (much less you have). I have seen people in severe pain, and trust me, they were in no condition to catch a cab and go to an ER for a portion of narcotics to take the edge off.
Quote:I have an appointment with the back specialist August 1st and then an appointment with my PCP October 1st.
Yeah ... that's how our "best in the world" system works unfortunately. It took me more than two months to get an appointment too when I first got the problem. Sometimes, I think, folks talking about the lines in Canada as an argument against universal health care system, just have never been outside.
Quote:The ER that I went to in Burbank this weekend is going to put me in touch with social services tomorrow and they are going to find me a place I can go for pain management. Hopefully that'll help me since I'm pretty limited in activities I can do right now unfortunately. (I was only able to go to the gym 4 times this last week instead of 6 due to the escalated pain situation, but I didn't eat at all yesterday nor today to make up for it. Hopefully I'll be happy with my weigh-in tomorrow morning.)
I am sorry you do not feel great ... but trust me, if you can go to the gym, your pain isn't bad at all. I am not saying it to belittle you, but rather for you to put your problem in perspective, to, hopefully, make you feel a little better. Just think about millions of people, who live with pain every day for years, that is much, much, much worse than yours. So much worse, that, if they could suddenly get to the level of pain you are feeling, they would consider themselves cured. All those people are still able to live, and function, and be happy. And so are you. Just stop thinking of your condition as crippling. It's just pain. Could be worse. Much worse.
Quote:And the rules only said no diuretics and no weight loss surgery, it didn't say I couldn't eat very little.
Don't do that. You should eat less then you do when you exercise, but you should still eat. Not eating enough slows down metabolism, and cause the effect opposite from what you are trying to achieve. You can't starve yourself for very long, but, if you do it long enough, your body will start piling up fat at rates you have never seen before when you start eating again.
Quote: HotBlondeAnd ironically I'm not friends with EuropeanHottie any more for just that reason.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Quote: HotBlondeI didn't eat at all yesterday nor today to make up for it.
I know this will sound like a self-serving statement, but that doesn't sound like a healthy thing to do to me.
Quote: WizardI know this will sound like a self-serving statement, but that doesn't sound like a healthy thing to do to me.
Obviously correct. At this point, almost 3 months to go, a two day fast after having eaten so few calories regularly can not be good for HB. Also, I would be stunned if any of the physicians treating her would approve of the RIGOROUS exercise regimen she has been participating in, while still having enough pain to require multiple ER visits and narcotic prescriptions.
As far as Weasel's bashing of the US health care system, in this case, he may be correct. I don't for sure know the California health care system works, or the specific doctors HB has dealt with or is trying to deal with, but I can imagine they are not jumping up and down trying to add another complex un insured case to their rolls. A Canadian doctor would have no such thoughts.
As I have stated before, and told HB personally, FAR more concerning to me would be her foot drop problem than her pain problem. That, at my hospital at least, would get the ball rolling far faster than it has for HB. The free care a patient like HB would be getting here would be subsidized by the local (county) taxpayers, but she'd be getting the care.
It is sad HB and EH are no longer friends. Chronic pain can affect relationships in many ways, few of them good.
Quote: SOOPOO
As far as Weasel's bashing of the US health care system, in this case, he may be correct. I don't for sure know the California health care system works, or the specific doctors HB has dealt with or is trying to deal with, but I can imagine they are not jumping up and down trying to add another complex un insured case to their rolls. A Canadian doctor would have no such thoughts.
I have (and always have had) insurance, and so do a lot of people I know. Yet I have never had a different experience trying to get a specialist appointment or heard of anyone else having a different experience.
I highly doubt that the problem is lack of insurance in this case either. It's just that most of these highly compensated physicians are used to short hours and long lunches (and I don't mean it as a bad thing about those doctors. If I could make $500 in ten minutes, I would not be exactly enthusiastic about working 40 hours per week either).
I have no dog in the fight.
Quote: thecesspitI would suggest starving your body while sick is probably a way to roll up several problems in one.
Although I have no medical training, this would be my instinct as well. However, it is a $2,400 swing to me depending on whether or not HB wins the bet, so it comes off like a selfish statement if I make it.
Did anybody ever contact the Dr. Oz show about all this drama?
(And "people have it worse" is not an excuse not to go to the ER. Practically everyone I know would go to the ER with a broken wrist - it doesn't matter if it's life-threatening, only if it's urgent.)
Quote: 24Bingo
(And "people have it worse" is not an excuse not to go to the ER.
Of course not. The "excuse" not to go the ER is that it is intended for life threatening conditions.
Getting ER to manage your pain is akin to using a handicapped parking spot because you are too tired to walk across the parking lot. That's when you (have insurance to) pay for it. Using it for free is a whole new dimension altogether. I am not even sure what petty mischief to compare it to.
Quote:Practically everyone I know would go to the ER with a broken wrist - it doesn't matter if it's life-threatening, only if it's urgent.)
Bad example. Broken wrist can be life threatening if not treated properly.
But I see your point. Perhaps, "life threatening" requirement should be relaxed to include acute potentially dangerous conditions requiring immediate treatment. Chronic pain is just not it either away.
I've been in pain for 2 weeks now, and for most of the two weeks my pain was under control from the Dilaudid and anti-inflamatory I was taking. It wasn't until a few days ago, starting Friday that the drugs weren't working like they just were and although I was taking them religiously my pain was not dissipating but getting worse. Originally cuz I was dealing with the pain I was not hungry and so I did not eat (and obviously couldn't go to the gym even if I wanted to) but Sunday it was bad to the point where I wasn't even able to stand without having the pain increase dramatically, making me unable to even fix myself something to eat.Quote: weaselmanbut trust me, if you can go to the gym, your pain isn't bad at all.
But in regards to the Emergency Room, you and I are just going to have to disagree. If I would've walked into a regular doctor's office in the crippling amount of pain I was in they would've told me to leave and go straight to the ER. Even after leaving the ER they tell me to return if my condition doesn't get better or even gets worse. But we can go on and on about this but we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm taking it you grew up in an environment where you were told you needed to be tough and to never cry. And yes, there are people in worse pain than me but that doesn't mean that my specific pain doesn't mean anything. There's always going to be someone who is in a worse position than someone else, even those in severe pain. So I don't appreciate you telling me that my pain is not a big deal when in fact you're not me and you don't know what I've been experiencing.
I'm actually on the phone on hold trying to get an appointment with my PCP so that she can hopefully put me in touch with a pain specialist to tide me over until my appointment with the back specialist. The last 2 weeks I was fine managing my pain until this last Friday, and I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the physical therapy I started.
Anyway, I do plan on eating, I will eat shortly after I got off the phone. I weighed in LAST week at 188.6. Does anybody want to guess how much I weighed in at this morning? If I can get at least 3 people to take a guess I will then tell you how much I weigh and I will give a mini-prize to whoever came the closest.
Quote: HotBlondeIf I would've walked into a regular doctor's office in the crippling amount of pain I was in they would've told me to leave and go straight to the ER.
Trust me, they would not. They'd tell you to go just to the receptionist and make an appointment.
I was surprised too when it first happened to be by how the doctors are unimpressed by what seemed to me like tremendous, unbearable pain I was in. But, then, as I gradually got used to living with it, I came to realize, that I was wrong, and they were right. When you are new to it, it could seem to you like it is the end of the world, and you cannot take it any more, but they have seen it before, and they know one thing - yeah, you actually very much can.
Quote:And yes, there are people in worse pain than me but that doesn't mean that my specific pain doesn't mean anything.
I never said it did not mean anything. Obviously it means a lot to you. What I am saying is that you seem to be thinking of it as a condition that you cannot manage by yourself, without help of doctors and drugs, and you are wrong about it.
Anyway, so my weigh-in this morning was...
(drumroll, please)...................
Congrats, thecesspit! You were the closest.
I do have to say, every time my numbers come up good like they have pretty much every week, I immediately and always think about all the naysayers who are constantly barking, "Well you know, you're gonna hit a plateau, you lose slower toward the end, it gets so much harder to lose weight after a while," blah, blah, blah. And I'm not saying they're wrong. I still have 12.5 weeks left to go. And since I've started physical therapy and adding exercises to my daily routine it's probably going to make next week's weight loss not a big number. So I am expecting that. It has just always puzzled me why everyone says it's supposed to get so hard. We'll just have to wait and see...
Take the Dont's, pay the Line, it's in the bag.
Twenty pounds in almost three months? Please. I could drink a bottle of colon cleanser and weigh five less pounds in three hours.
If I laid 20:1 and let someone take it, I'd be a thief and a scoundrel, at this point.
Are you going to continue to post the lbs. eery Monday, HB. I fear that there will be no drama and suspense in Vegas when you are South of 155 by Mid-September!
Quote: Mission146Are you going to continue to post the lbs. eery Monday, HB. I fear that there will be no drama and suspense in Vegas when you are South of 155 by Mid-September!
I think that is a good point. You might gain some weight next week. Since you are within 15 pounds of your goal, you should probably not post anymore numbers. Any magician know that the reveal is crucial.
You want a good before and after image
Quote: HotBlondeI'm not sure if my 7.6 pounds in one week weight loss had anything to do with my 2 days of not eating, but could have something to do with the high number.
Well, you have to be leery a bit if you've been thrown off your routine. You could flucuate in the wrong direction at next weigh-in, but I wouldn't let it throw you if it happens as long as maintain your calorie montoring and exercise closely, and don't lose your focus all should go well.
Like in gambling, it's the long run that will really count.
