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TigerWu
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September 25th, 2023 at 6:21:52 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

E=mc^2
link to original post

What does this have to do with gambling?
EvenBob
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September 25th, 2023 at 8:01:58 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

I believe EB has gambled both in casinos and online for actual money, and it's obviously completely probable for anyone who does that to have winning streaks lasting weeks or even months. But he has not "beaten" any games on a consistent basis over a period of years.
link to original post

I've said before I don't think it's actually possible to beat a casino game. What you can do is exploit it by slipping in and slipping out when you see an opportunity and making a few dollars. But I would hardly call that 'beating' it. I used to say that I beat roulette but when I thought about it that's not true. I exploit roulette is a better way to say it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 25th, 2023 at 8:02:30 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Quote: EvenBob

E=mc^2
link to original post

What does this have to do with gambling?
link to original post

Exactly... That was my point.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
TigerWu
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September 25th, 2023 at 8:32:10 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: EvenBob

E=mc^2
link to original post

What does this have to do with gambling?
link to original post

Exactly... That was my point.
link to original post

I think everyone knows that E=MC^2 doesn't have anything to do with gambling. You didn't have to make a "point" of it.
TigerWu
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September 25th, 2023 at 8:47:21 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I used to say that I beat roulette but when I thought about it that's not true.
link to original post

We all knew that and kept trying to tell you. Glad to see you've finally come around.
EvenBob
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September 25th, 2023 at 9:18:25 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

We all knew that and kept trying to tell you. Glad to see you've finally come around.
link to original post

It would be like saying a card counter beats blackjack. That's not true, he sees an opportunity to exploit blackjack but he doesn't beat it. That's what I do
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AxelWolf
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September 25th, 2023 at 12:53:11 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: TigerWu

We all knew that and kept trying to tell you. Glad to see you've finally come around.
link to original post

It would be like saying a card counter beats blackjack. That's not true, he sees an opportunity to exploit blackjack but he doesn't beat it. That's what I do
link to original post

Nope! A card counter IS beating the game of blackjack. A skilled full-play Deuces Wild player IS beating the machine. A skilled wheel roulette wheel clocker is beating the game of roulette. A skilled hole carder is beating the game of blackjack. A skilled edge sorter is beating the card game they're playing.

A skilled Progressive video poker/slot player is beating the game of video poker and slots. A slot vulture is beating slots. Granted, on those three particular things and others like it while you're getting your money directly from the casino/ machine your value is actually coming from other players who left value behind banking it up and played at a lower percentage than you.

Now what do all these things have in common? I would let you guess, but surely you wouldn't come up with the correct answer.

All of those things can be calculated using math to show +EV(over 100% payback) and an exact strategy can be generated. It can be explained, shown on paper, tested, taught, and simulated by anyone with the skills to do so. Everyone should come to the same conclusion.
I.E. Advantage Play METHODS.

You can't do that with your roulette SYSTEM because no matter what you come up with the math will still show -EV. And that my friend is exactly why they call them gambling SYSTEMS and have a specific term called gambler's fallacy.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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September 25th, 2023 at 3:02:13 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

A card counter IS beating the game of blackjack.
link to original post

Nope, not even close. That would mean every time he sits down he wins. That would be beating the game. He doesn't do that, he keeps track of the cards and when he thinks the cards are in his favor then he bets and he exploits a very small part of the game. I do the same thing with roulette, I can't sit down and win win. I have to wait wait wait then exploit a small part of the game.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AxelWolf
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September 25th, 2023 at 3:45:19 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

A card counter IS beating the game of blackjack.
link to original post

Nope, not even close. That would mean every time he sits down he wins.]

Nope not even close! Even with a huge proven mathematical advantage Advantage Players don't win every time they sit down.

Card counters actually lose many sessions(I can't remember the exact numbers, but probably around 50%) and can have super long losing streaks. That's why Kelly is so important to most Advantage Players.

I don't believe you have a good understanding of +EV gambling whatsoever. Most of what you claim is actually the opposite of the truth and reality. You make up you're own theories, "math", terms, and rules in an attempt to convince everyone you have a winning method. Only a few idiots might actually believe you. Don't you have some idiot believers over on GF?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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September 25th, 2023 at 4:29:41 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Nope, not even close. That would mean every time he sits down he wins.]

Nope not even close! Even with a huge proven mathematical advantage Advantage Players don't win every time they sit down.

link to original post

Why are you making the exact same point that I just made. I said this before, I swear to God you're reading and comprehension level is somewhat mysterious. In order to be said to beat the game that would mean a player would have to sit down and win every time he played but of course that's impossible. You cannot say a card counter 'beats blackjack', he beats a tiny portion of blackjack he does not beat the entire game. I'm sure you will misread all of this and come back with some other tirade that has nothing to do with anything.

I do not beat roulette, I beat a teeny teeny tiny part of roulette when it lets me. When I see an opening I jump in make some money and jump out and leave. It's not possible to beat any casino game, but it is possible to exploit them somewhat. And even that is very difficult.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
billryan
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September 25th, 2023 at 4:50:25 PM permalink
A sound card counter can win long-term. You can't. It's that simple, and no matter what nonsense you spew, it doesn't change a thing.
A man who lies while gambling will have many friends. A man who lies about his gambling will not.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
billryan
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September 25th, 2023 at 4:50:48 PM permalink
Duplicate post deleted.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AxelWolf
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September 25th, 2023 at 5:03:17 PM permalink
Your entire claims are based on tricking/outsmarting/defying math with wild unbelievable claims that you have cracked the code of randomness based on previous patterns. It's complete hogwash. Of course, you'll come back with some nonsense saying you haven't cracked the code because it's only sometimes or that you can only achieve 80% when it's playing your game. Never have you ever had the ability to guess correctly with an 8o% hit rate and you never will. You guess correctly exactly as well as random guessers. You achieve a 50% hit rate and get paid at 45%-48% of your total wagers.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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September 25th, 2023 at 7:20:10 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Your entire claims are based on tricking/outsmarting/defying math
link to original post

Please please PLEASE tell me which math that I am tricking or outsmarting. I keep asking this question over and over and nobody ever answers it. You have no idea what math you're talking about because there is none. Certainly not the law of large numbers we've discussed that into the ground. And nice try changing the subject from a card counter beats the game of blackjack. He can sometimes beat the smallest portion of the shoe and that does not mean he 'beat' the game.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 25th, 2023 at 7:24:29 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

A sound card counter can win long-term.
link to original post

So what. It means he jumps in and wins at a very small portion of the game and jumps back out. This does not mean he beat blackjack. He exploited the game, he took advantage of a weakness, he did not beat anything. Just exactly what I do in roulette. I exploit a small portion. I jump in and I jump out and leave. Casinos hate these kinds of players just for that reason. We don't stick around long enough for the them to have a crack at our bankroll.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AxelWolf
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September 25th, 2023 at 10:05:45 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

Your entire claims are based on tricking/outsmarting/defying math
link to original post

Please please PLEASE tell me which math that I am tricking or outsmarting. I keep asking this question over and over and nobody ever answers it. You have no idea what math you're talking about because there is none. Certainly not the law of large numbers we've discussed that into the ground. And nice try changing the subject from a card counter beats the game of blackjack. He can sometimes beat the smallest portion of the shoe and that does not mean he 'beat' the game.
link to original post

I don't know how to be more clear in stating a card counter is beating the game. A card counter can show that he has an advantage. It's been proven card counting is an advantage. It's really just semantics, kinda like like... you don't hit and run, "you win and leave".

Where are you coming up with this stuff? Reading crap that others say and taking it out of context or adding your own spin? What if they are not playing a shoe? What if they have an advantage off the top? What if they only play when it's +EV?

"smallest portion of the shoe" Where did you come up with that? Depending on the game, penetration, and rules it could be a positive count near 50% of the time. I'll hazard to guess on average it's 35% of the time.

You keep talking about the law of large numbers not realizing that playing even money bets while flat betting on roulette doesn't need a large number of spins to realize negative results. Large numbers are needed in order to realize the exact HA or close.

The math for roulette has been done -2.7%(SZ)- 5.26%(DZ). That's the math you're trying to trick/outsmart. Show us the math, formula, or patterns that indicate you can achieve an 80% hit rate. It's just made up in your head. Past random gambling outcomes cannot help you achieve future above-average results... that's been proven.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darrenhay
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September 25th, 2023 at 10:19:40 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

The truth is you won't live long enough to make enough bets where the law of large numbers will have an effect on you.

A statement like that warms the heart of every successful advantage player. It tends to keep competition down.
AxelWolf
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September 25th, 2023 at 11:30:36 PM permalink
@ OnceDear or anyone with a roulette simulator that cares to bother, can you sim 250 even money bets on roulette 20+ times? I'm curious to know how many if any will be ahead. Also, What number of spins does it take to have 99.9% confidence you won't be ahead?

Since Bob ignores Green and claims he can achieve his incredible hit rates on 00, a 00 simulation would be sufficient.

Thanks in advance.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
OnceDear
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September 26th, 2023 at 12:52:35 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

@ OnceDear or anyone with a roulette simulator that cares to bother, can you sim 250 even money bets on roulette 20+ times? I'm curious to know how many if any will be ahead. Also, What number of spins does it take to have 99.9% confidence you won't be ahead?

Since Bob ignores Green and claims he can achieve his incredible hit rates on 00, a 00 simulation would be sufficient.

Thanks in advance.
link to original post

I don't know if I can see the point.
We have EvenBob in this thread who does not use refuses to even acknowledge meanings of perfectly ordinary words and phrases. He argues about the word 'Beat', he's described himself as flat betting where he doesn't bet the same at different sessions. He once described how he used flat betting with a 'd'Alembert progression that was in fact a Martingale. He decries 'Hit and Run' as useless, but tells us of the totally different and superior practice of 'Win and Leave. And his use of the word or symbol '%' and the concepts of percentages are legendary. He even has his own definitions of 'Random' and 'Proof'.
There are no common terms of reference and a stubborn refusal to try to establish any.
So there is zero ... ZERO point in debating with EvenBob. As soon as your words reach his consciousness, he chooses whether to bat them back with 'Nope....[insert spurious text]' or else he tells us he hasn't read our yada yada.
Yup. No rounding error. No probability estimate required. Debating EvenBob is pointless. Worse than pointless. It's -EV, a dead loss.
If EvenBob were a troll, we would be feeding him. If he were a stand up comedian, we would be heckling him. And he would lap it up.
So thinks..... I simulated something from the fantasy world where one correctly guessed with an 80% hit rate and turned \$100 into \$50m. What the heck..... Mind you, I'll defer to others to do the confidence limits malarky.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
OnceDear
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September 26th, 2023 at 4:49:58 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: AxelWolf

@ OnceDear or anyone with a roulette simulator that cares to bother, can you sim 250 even money bets on roulette 20+ times? I'm curious to know how many if any will be ahead. Also, What number of spins does it take to have 99.9% confidence you won't be ahead?

Since Bob ignores Green and claims he can achieve his incredible hit rates on 00, a 00 simulation would be sufficient.

Thanks in advance.
link to original post

I don't know if I can see the point. ...
What the heck..... Mind you, I'll defer to others to do the confidence limits malarky.
link to original post

I simulated 100 'sets' of 250 spins, each starting with a bankroll of 250 units and each placing 250 one unit wagers on an 'even money' roulette wager at a single 0 table. I ignored the 'en partage' rule.
For each set, I calculated the final bankroll of that set. I counted the number of sets that were ahead by more than zero units after those 250 spins. I also calculated the average final bankroll for each set and the average percentage return on our 250 unit starting bankroll
I then repeated this whole exercise 4 more times. So, That's run #1, run #2, run #3, run #4 and run #5

Sets that ended aheadHighest Set Final BankrollLowest Set Final BankrollAverage Set Final BankrollAverage Set Return BankrollObserved House Edge
Run #127292212242.7697.104%2.896%
Run #225288204241.5696.624%3.376%
Run #330286206243.3697.344%2.656%
Run #432270202202.2496.896%3.104%
Run #540300208246.5698.624%1.376%

What I suspect that AW would really like is to see how many spins it takes for 'the house edge to assert itself and settle at between about 1% and 4%,
so here's a demo of that. Typically, the real and positive house edge of between 1% and 4% is obvious after about 8,000 spins flat betting the 'even chances'
Last edited by: OnceDear on Sep 26, 2023
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
AxelWolf
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September 26th, 2023 at 5:20:06 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: OnceDear

Quote: AxelWolf

@ OnceDear or anyone with a roulette simulator that cares to bother, can you sim 250 even money bets on roulette 20+ times? I'm curious to know how many if any will be ahead. Also, What number of spins does it take to have 99.9% confidence you won't be ahead?

Since Bob ignores Green and claims he can achieve his incredible hit rates on 00, a 00 simulation would be sufficient.

Thanks in advance.
link to original post

I don't know if I can see the point. ...
What the heck..... Mind you, I'll defer to others to do the confidence limits malarky.
link to original post

I simulated 100 'sets' of 250 spins, each starting with a bankroll of 250 units and each placing 250 one unit wagers on an 'even money' roulette wager at a single 0 table. I ignored the 'en partage' rule.
For each set, I calculated the final bankroll of that set. I counted the number of sets that were ahead by more than zero units after those 250 spins. I also calculated the average final bankroll for each set and the average percentage return on our 250 unit starting bankroll
I then repeated this whole exercise 4 more times. So, That's run #1, run #2, run #3, run #4 and run #5

Sets that ended aheadHighest Set Final BankrollLowest Set Final BankrollAverage Set Final BankrollAverage Set Return BankrollObserved House Edge
Run #127292212242.7697.104%2.896%
Run #225288204241.5696.624%3.376%
Run #330286206243.3697.344%2.656%
Run #432270202202.2496.896%3.104%
Run #540300208246.5698.624%1.376%

What I suspect that AW would really like is to see how many spins it takes for 'the house edge to assert itself and settle at between about 1% and 4%,
so here's a demo of that. Typically, the real and positive house edge of between 1% and 4% is obvious after about 8,000 spins flat betting the 'even chances'

link to original post

Thanks, much appropriated.

I love it.

"Axel, no thanks, this is a fruitless endeavor and a waste of time"

Some time later. "F it, I'll go above and beyond."

I would absolutely hire you, even with your record-stained WMOAT status.
If you can explain all this to EvenBob so he can understand it.

I'll replace the WM with a G.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Joeman
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September 26th, 2023 at 5:31:13 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

I don't know if I can see the point....
Debating EvenBob is pointless. Worse than pointless. It's -EV, a dead loss.

And yet...

Quote: OnceDear

I simulated 100 'sets' of 250 spins, each starting with a bankroll of 250 units and each placing 250 one unit wagers on an 'even money' roulette wager at a single 0 table.

That right there is Bob's genius. It's obviously not winning at roulette, but rather it is getting us to engage him on his terms. If we would just ignore his posts, this would all go away and the forum's collective mental health would be all the better for it. But it's like a train wreck... we can't look away. Or worse, we are compelled to participate...

Must... Post... Rebuttal!!!!

And look... now, I am part of the problem!
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
TigerWu
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September 26th, 2023 at 6:10:29 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Please please PLEASE tell me which math that I am tricking or outsmarting. I keep asking this question over and over and nobody ever answers it.

Wrong. I answered this a couple pages ago and you ignored it.

Quote:

Certainly not the law of large numbers we've discussed that into the ground.
link to original post

And yet you still haven't proven how the LLN doesn't apply to you.
TigerWu
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September 26th, 2023 at 6:17:10 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

That would mean every time he sits down he wins. That would be beating the game.
link to original post

So anything less than 100% wins all the time every time a game is played is NOT beating a game?

Winning 99% of the time is not beating the game?

Winning 30% of the time is not beating the game, even if you are CONSISTENTLY making a profit?

Y'all see what EB is doing here?

Instead of admitting he is wrong, he is redefining words and concepts so that no one else can be right.... LOL

Quote: Joeman

That right there is Bob's genius. It's obviously not winning at roulette, but rather it is getting us to engage him on his terms. If we would just ignore his posts, this would all go away and the forum's collective mental health would be all the better for it. But it's like a train wreck... we can't look away. Or worse, we are compelled to participate...

link to original post

It's because the things he says are so objectively and inarguably false, we can't help but respond. It would be like someone confidently asserting that grass is blue; you just HAVE to step in and point out that's it's obviously green.
OnceDear
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September 26th, 2023 at 6:18:05 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Thanks, much appropriated.

I love it.

"Axel, no thanks, this is a fruitless endeavor and a waste of time"

Some time later. "F it, I'll go above and beyond."

I would absolutely hire you, even with your record-stained WMOAT status.
If you can explain all this to EvenBob so he can understand it.

I'll replace the WM with a G.
link to original post

Done for your benefit and my amusement. It is of no value to EvenBob and would persuade him of nothing.

Like yourself, I was curious as to what order of numbers the sample size would need to reach to demonstrate the tendency described by the LLN. Subjectively, we can now look at that latter chart and say that after 'around 8,000' spins we can expect to see the house edge assert itself. Unless, of course we have some special, roulette wagering skill.

It does nothing to prove that Henry the Unicorn never has a problem picking winning wagers.
Maybe Henry the Unicorn will join the forum (Are unicorns allowed?) and explain why his results are so much better than anything I can simulate. He's reluctant to tells me how he makes his fantastical predictions.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
TigerWu
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September 26th, 2023 at 6:25:09 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Like yourself, I was curious as to what order of numbers the sample size would need to reach to demonstrate the tendency described by the LLN. Subjectively, we can now look at that latter chart and say that after 'around 8,000' spins we can expect to see the house edge assert itself. Unless, of course we have some special, roulette wagering skill.
link to original post

I would like to remind everyone that EvenBob himself claimed approximately 8,000 spins was the total number of spins in that single picture of roulette cards he posted not too long ago. And that was just one small fraction of his records from one single box out of who knows how many he claimed to have gotten rid of already, from a fraction of his decades of gambling. And he insists the LLN does not apply to him....lol
billryan
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September 26th, 2023 at 6:27:22 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

Quote: OnceDear

I don't know if I can see the point....
Debating EvenBob is pointless. Worse than pointless. It's -EV, a dead loss.

And yet...

Quote: OnceDear

I simulated 100 'sets' of 250 spins, each starting with a bankroll of 250 units and each placing 250 one unit wagers on an 'even money' roulette wager at a single 0 table.

That right there is Bob's genius. It's obviously not winning at roulette, but rather it is getting us to engage him on his terms. If we would just ignore his posts, this would all go away and the forum's collective mental health would be all the better for it. But it's like a train wreck... we can't look away. Or worse, we are compelled to participate...

Must... Post... Rebuttal!!!!

And look... now, I am part of the problem!
link to original post

Don't rebut anything. Just remind everyone these are the ramblings of someone who is reciting canned nonsense.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
OnceDear
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September 26th, 2023 at 6:31:02 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

That right there is Bob's genius. It's obviously not winning at roulette, but rather it is getting us to engage him on his terms. If we would just ignore his posts, this would all go away and the forum's collective mental health would be all the better for it. But it's like a train wreck... we can't look away. Or worse, we are compelled to participate...

link to original post

Quote: TigerWu

It's because the things he says are so objectively and inarguably false, we can't help but respond. It would be like someone confidently asserting that grass is blue; you just HAVE to step in and point out that's it's obviously green.
link to original post

'TigerWu took me into a field of grass, but it wasn't the kind of grass that I play on. 80% of grass is blue, but he showed me some of the other 20%'

For TigerWu, courtesy of Gordonm888: https://cleverjourneys.com/2021/09/18/the-donkey-tiger-and-lion-lesson/

Anyhow. Joeman is spot on. It's been said before.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
OnceDear
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September 26th, 2023 at 6:38:19 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: Joeman

Quote: OnceDear

I don't know if I can see the point....
Debating EvenBob is pointless. Worse than pointless. It's -EV, a dead loss.

That right there is Bob's genius. It's obviously not winning at roulette, but rather it is getting us to engage him on his terms. If we would just ignore his posts, this would all go away and the forum's collective mental health would be all the better for it. But it's like a train wreck... we can't look away. Or worse, we are compelled to participate...

Must... Post... Rebuttal!!!!
link to original post

Don't rebut anything. Just remind everyone these are the ramblings of someone who is reciting canned nonsense.
link to original post

Right..... BillRyan, Joeman, Everyone except EvenBob.....

Let's not post rebuttals to EvenBob's nonsense. Let's simply remind each-other of the futility stupidity of so doing.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
billryan
• Threads: 242
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
September 26th, 2023 at 7:06:49 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: billryan

Quote: Joeman

Quote: OnceDear

I don't know if I can see the point....
Debating EvenBob is pointless. Worse than pointless. It's -EV, a dead loss.

That right there is Bob's genius. It's obviously not winning at roulette, but rather it is getting us to engage him on his terms. If we would just ignore his posts, this would all go away and the forum's collective mental health would be all the better for it. But it's like a train wreck... we can't look away. Or worse, we are compelled to participate...

Must... Post... Rebuttal!!!!
link to original post

Don't rebut anything. Just remind everyone these are the ramblings of someone who is reciting canned nonsense.
link to original post

Right..... BillRyan, Joeman, Everyone except EvenBob.....

Let's not post rebuttals to EvenBob's nonsense. Let's simply remind each-other of the futility stupidity of so doing.
link to original post

It's a movement. We need a kool nickname and maybe some jerseys for the Wiz's meetups.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Radged
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Joined: May 10, 2019
September 26th, 2023 at 7:35:30 AM permalink
It's important to recognize that online forums and communities often have diverse members with varying opinions and behaviors. It's not uncommon for some individuals to engage in attention-seeking or provocative behavior in online spaces.
tuttigym
• Threads: 10
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Joined: Feb 12, 2010
September 26th, 2023 at 7:37:46 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

'TigerWu took me into a field of grass, but it wasn't the kind of grass that I play on. 80% of grass is blue, but he showed me some of the other 20%'

For TigerWu, courtesy of Gordonm888: https://cleverjourneys.com/2021/09/18/the-donkey-tiger-and-lion-lesson/

Anyhow. Joeman is spot on. It's been said before.
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What a great fable. Thanks for that, OD.

There is a caveat. Kentucky is called the "Bluegrass State." and the Boise State football stadium "grass" field is blue.

tuttigym
EvenBob
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Joined: Jul 18, 2010
September 26th, 2023 at 7:38:52 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Wrong. I answered this a couple pages ago and you ignored it.

And yet you still haven't proven how the LLN doesn't apply to you.
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No you didn't, you didn't do anything a couple pages ago cuz I keep asking this question and nobody answers it. If you think you did let's hear it again.

As far as the LLN goes:

"The law of large numbers applies only when a large number of observations are considered."

and

"The does not apply to a single observation or outcome. The law only applies when a large number of observations are considered."

The law of large numbers cannot and does not apply to anything that happens in the extreme short term where you make a bet. There is no law that applies to the short-term because anything can happen.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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Joined: Jul 18, 2010
September 26th, 2023 at 7:43:29 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

So anything less than 100% wins all the time every time a game is played is NOT beating a game?
link to original post

Not what I said and you know it. When you exploit just a tiny part of the game like what happens in blackjack you're not beating the game you're exploiting a small portion of it. The rest of the game if you were playing it would be beating the crap out of you. You wait till that part of the game when you can jump in and make a couple dollars and jump out. If you were actually beating the game you would be able to sit down at any BJ table and win more than you lose for the entire shoe. That's impossible.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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Joined: Jul 18, 2010
September 26th, 2023 at 7:45:59 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

I would like to remind everyone that EvenBob himself claimed approximately 8,000 spins was the total number of spins in that single picture of roulette cards he posted not too long ago. And that was just one small fraction of his records from one single box out of who knows how many he claimed to have gotten rid of already, from a fraction of his decades of gambling. And he insists the LLN does not apply to him....lol
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If you think the LLN involves such a tiny amount of spins as 8,000 then you really don't know what the law of large numbers is. 8,000 is a tiny number not a large number when it comes to casino games.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
OnceDear
• Threads: 64
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Joined: Jun 1, 2014
September 26th, 2023 at 7:56:28 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: OnceDear

Right..... BillRyan, Joeman, Everyone except EvenBob.....

Let's not post rebuttals to EvenBob's nonsense. Let's simply remind each-other of the futility stupidity of so doing.
link to original post

It's a movement. We need a kool nickname and maybe some jerseys for the Wiz's meetups.
link to original post

There is not enough commonality of purpose.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
billryan
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• Posts: 16308
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
September 26th, 2023 at 7:58:56 AM permalink
Understanding that you can interact with someone spouting nonsense is essential.
It's important to look beyond the words and examine the emotions behind them. Consider why the person is saying what he says, and respond to the emotion behind the statements, not the statements themselves.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
billryan
• Threads: 242
• Posts: 16308
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
September 26th, 2023 at 8:01:54 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: billryan

Quote: OnceDear

Right..... BillRyan, Joeman, Everyone except EvenBob.....

Let's not post rebuttals to EvenBob's nonsense. Let's simply remind each-other of the futility stupidity of so doing.
link to original post

It's a movement. We need a kool nickname and maybe some jerseys for the Wiz's meetups.
link to original post

There is not enough commonality of purpose.
link to original post

We could be heroes, if just for one day.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
EvenBob
• Threads: 442
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Joined: Jul 18, 2010
September 26th, 2023 at 8:02:43 AM permalink
I keep seeing Oncedear's name here and if any of you are wondering why I don't respond to anything he might be saying about me, it's because I've arranged it so I no longer read his posts. I determined that they are a complete waste of my time because no matter what I say, no matter what position I take, he will always take the opposite position therefore his posts are a complete waste of time to me. My life has improved tremendously since I made this decision.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Joeman
• Threads: 36
• Posts: 2430
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
September 26th, 2023 at 8:03:00 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

If you think the LLN involves such a tiny amount of spins as 8,000 then you really don't know what the law of large numbers is. 8,000 is a tiny number not a large number when it comes to casino games.
link to original post

Lolz @ Bob telling Tiger, "You don't know maths!!!11!!"
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
OnceDear
• Threads: 64
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Joined: Jun 1, 2014
September 26th, 2023 at 8:05:13 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Understanding that you can interact with someone spouting nonsense is essential.
It's important to look beyond the words and examine the emotions behind them. Consider why the person is saying what he says, and respond to the emotion behind the statements, not the statements themselves.
link to original post

I'm not his therapist. It's not essential to me to salve his emotional scars.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
OnceDear
• Threads: 64
• Posts: 7486
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
September 26th, 2023 at 8:06:41 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: OnceDear

Quote: billryan

Quote: OnceDear

Right..... BillRyan, Joeman, Everyone except EvenBob.....

Let's not post rebuttals to EvenBob's nonsense. Let's simply remind each-other of the futility stupidity of so doing.
link to original post

It's a movement. We need a kool nickname and maybe some jerseys for the Wiz's meetups.
link to original post

There is not enough commonality of purpose.
link to original post

We could be heroes, if just for one day.
link to original post

we are all just prisoners of our own device
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Joeman
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Joined: Feb 21, 2014
September 26th, 2023 at 8:07:34 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I keep seeing Oncedear's name here and if any of you are wondering why I don't respond to anything he might be saying about me, it's because I've arranged it so I no longer read his posts. I determined that they are a complete waste of my time because no matter what I say, no matter what position I take, he will always take the opposite position therefore his posts are a complete waste of time to me. My life has improved tremendously since I made this decision.
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Wow, OD, what's it like living rent-free in Bob's head? If he has to keep re-iterating that he has you blocked, you must have really gotten to him!
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
OnceDear
• Threads: 64
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Joined: Jun 1, 2014
Thanked by
September 26th, 2023 at 8:12:12 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I keep seeing Oncedear's name here and if any of you are wondering why I don't respond to anything he might be saying about me, it's because I've arranged it so I no longer read his posts. I determined that they are a complete waste of my time because no matter what I say, no matter what position I take, he will always take the opposite position therefore his posts are a complete waste of time to me. My life has improved tremendously since I made this decision.
link to original post

Thank you, EvenBob. I'm highly honoured.
Since you are not reading this, then you won't need to respond and I don't need to put much effort in. How cool is that.
Now, if only the other fools in this thread could get blocked too, we could have a nice dead thread, where maybe EB could shout at the wind.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
OnceDear
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Joined: Jun 1, 2014
Thanked by
September 26th, 2023 at 8:13:21 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

Quote: EvenBob

I keep seeing Oncedear's name here and if any of you are wondering why I don't respond to anything he might be saying about me, it's because I've arranged it so I no longer read his posts. I determined that they are a complete waste of my time because no matter what I say, no matter what position I take, he will always take the opposite position therefore his posts are a complete waste of time to me. My life has improved tremendously since I made this decision.
link to original post

Wow, OD, what's it like living rent-free in Bob's head? If he has to keep re-iterating that he has you blocked, you must have really gotten to him!
link to original post

Yes. And watching him unblock and reblock me for every post is a true delight.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
TigerWu
• Threads: 26
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Joined: May 23, 2016
September 26th, 2023 at 8:24:59 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: TigerWu

Wrong. I answered this a couple pages ago and you ignored it.
link to original post

No you didn't, you didn't do anything a couple pages ago cuz I keep asking this question and nobody answers it. If you think you did let's hear it again.

Excuse me, it wasn't a "couple" pages ago, it was three. Bottom of page 5. Go take a look to refresh your memory then get back to me if you can prove the math wrong (hint: you can't). As a reminder, you yourself said you know more about the mathematics of gambling than professional mathematicians do.

Quote:

The law of large numbers cannot and does not apply to anything that happens in the extreme short term where you make a bet. There is no law that applies to the short-term because anything can happen.
link to original post

Agreed. I said nothing about the LLN applying to the short-term, however. I'm referring to the hundreds of thousands of spins you have been involved with over your gambling career.
TigerWu
• Threads: 26
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Joined: May 23, 2016
September 26th, 2023 at 8:27:43 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

All of the math surrounding roulette is predicated on making random bets against random outcomes. None of my bets are random, so as soon as you stop making non-random bets all the math goes right out the window. My bets are extremely deliberate, arrived at from years of observation of the outcomes in roulette. They are the polar opposite of random, and that's why, when done at the right time, they work. The casino verifies this every single time I play.
link to original post

Quick question regarding the bolded portion.

What exactly does the casino verify "every single time" you play?
rainman
• Threads: 19
• Posts: 1886
Joined: Mar 28, 2012
September 26th, 2023 at 8:52:40 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: EvenBob

I keep seeing Oncedear's name here and if any of you are wondering why I don't respond to anything he might be saying about me, it's because I've arranged it so I no longer read his posts. I determined that they are a complete waste of my time because no matter what I say, no matter what position I take, he will always take the opposite position therefore his posts are a complete waste of time to me. My life has improved tremendously since I made this decision.
link to original post

Thank you, EvenBob. I'm highly honoured.
Since you are not reading this, then you won't need to respond and I don't need to put much effort in. How cool is that.
Now, if only the other fools in this thread could get blocked too, we could have a nice dead thread, where maybe EB could shout at the wind.
link to original post

This fool has tried, he hasn't blocked me.
OnceDear
• Threads: 64
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Joined: Jun 1, 2014
September 26th, 2023 at 9:28:51 AM permalink
Quote: rainman

Quote: OnceDear

Now, if only the other fools in this thread could get blocked too, we could have a nice dead thread, where maybe EB could shout at the wind.
link to original post

This fool has tried, he hasn't blocked me.
link to original post

Never give up.
"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"
Hi Bob
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
tuttigym
• Threads: 10
• Posts: 1946
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
September 26th, 2023 at 10:06:25 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: rainman

Quote: OnceDear

Now, if only the other fools in this thread could get blocked too, we could have a nice dead thread, where maybe EB could shout at the wind.
link to original post

This fool has tried, he hasn't blocked me.
link to original post

Never give up.
"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"
Hi Bob

link to original post

If you all would repeat after every post from EB with the possible exception of his food posts:
EB IS IRRELEVANT

EB IS WRONG

My guess EB might be gone.

tuttigym
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