Buying a Used Car
There are a ton of them out there but they are all high
mileage. I see a 2008 Toyota Sienna with 202000 miles.
I call the guy and he says runs great, nothing wrong with
it, original everything, blah blah blah. That's not what I
want to hear, what that means to me is everything is
about to go. I run into this again and again.
Today a guy advertises on Craigslist a 2006 Toyota Sienna,
with 277000 miles. But it has the records for everything that
was ever done to it from the time it was bought. And lots of
things have been replaced. The electric sliding doors which
are a nightmare on every minivan ever built have been
disabled, so that's good. Oil change every 4000 miles,
transmission fluid flushed every 30000 miles. Timing belt
changed when it was supposed to be. Has a new set, less
than a year old, of Bridgestone tires on it. The guy has fixed
everything that went wrong as it happened.
He's asking 2500. My question is should I even be considering
this? Toyota is the gold standard of minivans, a new one is
$50,000. These older Siennas have been known to go a million
miles if they are well maintained. Should I go for it? Still looks
good inside and out.
My first question would be, why do you need a minivan?Quote: EvenBobI'm looking to buy a used minivan for around $5,000 cash.
There are a ton of them out there but they are all high
mileage. I see a 2008 Toyota Sienna with 202000 miles.
I call the guy and he says runs great, nothing wrong with
it, original everything, blah blah blah. That's not what I
want to hear, what that means to me is everything is
about to go. I run into this again and again.
Today a guy advertises on Craigslist a 2006 Toyota Sienna,
with 277000 miles. But it has the records for everything that
was ever done to it from the time it was bought. And lots of
things have been replaced. The electric sliding doors which
are a nightmare on every minivan ever built have been
disabled, so that's good. Oil change every 4000 miles,
transmission fluid flushed every 30000 miles. Timing belt
changed when it was supposed to be. Has a new set, less
than a year old, of Bridgestone tires on it. The guy has fixed
everything that went wrong as it happened.
He's asking 2500. My question is should I even be considering
this? Toyota is the gold standard of minivans, a new one is
$50,000. These older Siennas have been known to go a million
miles if they are well maintained. Should I go for it? Still looks
good inside and out.
277k miles is almost double what it should have, no amount of general maintenance can overcome eventual long-term mileage problems. But, if you like it and think it's a good deal, grab it. It's only a measly $2500, that's nothing to a guy who has a winning roulette system. The main question is... are there some good spots for candle holders?
Quote: AxelWolfMy first question would be, why do you need a minivan?
So I can haul my brother around to doctors
appointments. He cannot get into a regular
car because of his knees. This is a secondary
vehicle I'm not going to spend a lot of money on it.
Sounds reasonable to me. It is one of the best-rated minivans with lots of good features(does it have a moon roof?). It certainly looks nice and the paperwork seems in order. So why the hell not? It's hard to go wrong for $2,500.Quote: EvenBobSo I can haul my brother around to doctors
appointments. He cannot get into a regular
car because of his knees. This is a secondary
vehicle I'm not going to spend a lot of money on it.
Quote: AxelWolfSounds reasonable to me. It is one of the best-rated minivans with lots of good features(does it have a moon roof?)
Sunroofs and moon roofs are terrible after
a hundred thousand miles. The seals dry out
and crack. and they all leak eventually.
Quote: billryanWith the $1400 stimulus check, it's only costing you a bit over a grand. I don't see why you wouldn't, if you are looking for a mini-van.
You sending me yours? What makes
you think I got a stimulus check.
That's why I was asking. I was going to say don't try to open it just leave it be.Quote: EvenBobSunroofs and moon roofs are terrible after
a hundred thousand miles. The seals dry out
and crack. and they all leak eventually.
If you do buy it, you can't go too wrong for $2500 and it still runs. Being a second car how often will you use it and how mch mileage will you actually be putting on it. I have never owned a mini-van but I do like driving them.
I really want to buy a car out of the Carvana vending machine. I saw the one in Las Vegas yesterday for the first time.
Quote: SOOPOOSounds like a reasonable plan. Very kind of you to buy a vehicle specifically to help out your brother. As long as you are prepared for the possibility of a $2500 loss go for it. I just bought a used car for wife’s daughter. It was a ‘steal’ at $13k. A BMW, blah blah blah. Already around $3k in repairs...... I always buy new......maybe not cost effective but generally less headaches.
I am like you as I get a new car as soon as the warranty is about to expire on the current car. Between my wife and I we get a new car about every 18 months or so as the warranty is usually 36 months. I believe my BMW's had 48 month bumper to bumper warranty but who wants a four year old car. I am proud to say that I haven't had any car issues in over 20 years and I have never had to buy a new set of tires.
Edit: I did have a problem with my first BMW convertible as the top quit going up and down. It was in the shop for over a month but they gave me a more expensive car as a loaner.
Quote: EvenBobSunroofs and moon roofs are terrible after
a hundred thousand miles. The seals dry out
and crack. and they all leak eventually.
I don’t think you can use mileage to determine if a sunroof will be no good. I have 376k miles on my car with no leaks. It’s a 2008 I think climate and if your car is kept in a garage are more important factors
Quote: ChumpChangeI've never had a 15 year old car make it to 130,000 miles.
You definitely have never owned a Toyota.
Quote: EvenBobI basically made the deal on this van. So I'm talking to the woman who owns it on the phone and she says, by the way, you have to start the van everyday or every other day or the battery goes dead. It started doing this last year; she bought a new battery in the fall and it drains the new battery. She's made sure nothing is on inside the vehicle none of the lights are on inside, and it still drains the battery. She took it to a guy and he can't figure it out. This is a deal-breaker for me. It's obviously what they call a parasitic short. There's a wire somewhere in the van and it's grounding out draining the battery. Why would I want a vehicle where this is happening, to have to constantly worry about the battery being dead. And I asked her when was the last time she had a new exhaust put on. She got the vehicle 7 years ago it had never had a new exhaust put on it. Guess what's going to be going bad 10 minutes after I buy it.
I have a buddy this happened to. After a week of checking things out with a multimeter he found that the glove compartment light
was staying on.
Quote: ChumpChangeSeriously, it could be anything shorting out, and it takes someone very skilled to track these problems down and actually fix them.
Exactly! This will be the 25th vehicle I've owned in my life, it's not my first rodeo. You could be an experts expert and not find where the short is. And it is correct that just running the vehicle every couple of days will keep the battery charged. It will not. An alternator sends a trickle charge to the battery, I could drive it 3 miles to the store and back and it would not charge the battery if the battery was halfway down when I left. That's why it's a deal-breaker for me. And I swear to God, this woman who kept track of every single thing done to that vehicle did not know what a muffler was. Women..
I have a Truck that does some strange stuff related to electric problems and I have taken to two mechanics and they can't seem to figure it out. The problem never seems to occur when I bring it in. The one mechanic even drove it for the day.Quote: ChumpChangeSeriously, it could be anything shorting out, and it takes someone very skilled to track these problems down and actually fix them.
Quote: AxelWolfI have a Truck that does some strange stuff related to electric problems and I have taken to two mechanics and they can't seem to figure it out. The problem never seems to occur when I bring it in. The one mechanic even drove it for the day.
I was just reading about a trick to do when you have a problem like this. Take the vehicle into a dark garage, like your home garage with the door closed and the lights off. Start pulling the fuses one by one and putting them back in. If one of them sparks that's the problem circuit. At least it will narrow it down as to where to look.
When I say strange stuff, it seems to suddenly lose power and cut out once in a while(my wife won't drive it because of this). I can turn it off and wait a few min and it will start back up and be fine sometimes for the rest of the day and sometimes it will do it a few times right after the first time. It's not a big deal since it's more of a flashy collectors truck that I don't use all that often. I haven't even registered it yet this year.Quote: EvenBobI was just reading about a trick to do when you have a problem like this. Take the vehicle into a dark garage, like your home garage with the door closed and the lights off. Start pulling the fuses one by one and putting them back in. If one of them sparks that's the problem circuit. At least it will narrow it down as to where to look.
I have been conversing with her with texts and was pretty much sold on the vehicle until I spoke with her on the phone. I realize now that as soon as I heard she was the owner my heart sank because I have never known a woman that knows anything about vehicles. Everything she was telling me in text she got from all the notes she kept over the years. I soon realized she knew nothing about the vehicle outside of her notes.
Quote: AxelWolfWhen I say strange stuff, it seems to suddenly lose power and cut out once in a while(my wife won't drive it because of this).
From all the reading I've been doing in looking for a vehicle, this is not an uncommon problem. It's usually something to do with a computer module but narrowing it down can be a nightmare. You end up replacing half the electronic system and it costs thousands of dollars. For us non-mechanical types, we have no idea how complicated today's vehicles are. I remember 30 years ago in the early nineties my vehicle just quit running sitting at a red light. Would not restart. Mechanic said bad computer, they didn't have modules in those days you had to replace the entire computer. $800 which was a lot of money in 1992.
Quote:Experts agree that used cars must be inspected by a qualified specialist before the final negotiation for purchase. The ordinary car buyer, even if mechanically savvy, really can't do it justice. A thorough, professional inspection can tell you whether you're about to buy a peach or a lemon.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/inspect-that-used-car-before-buying.html
cost $100-200
I only put about 7,000 miles a year on my car so I don't even have to replace tires.
Quote: DRichThese are all exactly the reasons I buy new cars. I don't care if I over pay, it is worth it to me not to have to worry about maintenance.
I only put about 7,000 miles a year on my car so I don't even have to replace tires.
I've bought every vehicle I've owned new with the exception of my first one, and while it is not the preferred option of a penny pincher I find the trade-offs acceptable, like the worry free bumper to bumper 36,000 mile warranty that came with the purchase price.
Quote: DRichThese are all exactly the reasons I buy new cars. I don't care if I over pay, it is worth it to me not to have to worry about maintenance.
I only put about 7,000 miles a year on my car so I don't even have to replace tires.
If you really want to “AP” it, buy one year old pre-certified used cars from the dealer every 3 years. They tend to be as good as new for “hassle” factor and it’s cheaper over time as cars depreciate much more the first year than thereafter.
Quote: EvenBobI basically made the deal on this van. So I'm talking to the woman who owns it on the phone and she says, by the way, you have to start the van everyday or every other day or the battery goes dead. It started doing this last year; she bought a new battery in the fall and it drains the new battery. She's made sure nothing is on inside the vehicle none of the lights are on inside, and it still drains the battery. She took it to a guy and he can't figure it out. This is a deal-breaker for me. It's obviously what they call a parasitic short. There's a wire somewhere in the van and it's grounding out draining the battery. Why would I want a vehicle where this is happening, to have to constantly worry about the battery being dead. And I asked her when was the last time she had a new exhaust put on. She got the vehicle 7 years ago it had never had a new exhaust put on it. Guess what's going to be going bad 10 minutes after I buy it.
Sure, you can always keep a battery jumper pack on hand and it will start right up. It really isn't that big of a deal. You need a reliable car at a good price to ship your brother to his appointments and you're not going to find something which never needs work or anything. Don't know about getting stickers or anything like that, we don't have car inspections in Ohio. Fords have been reliable and get many miles on them, that's what I'll be looking at when I need another car, Asian cars are too small for me.
Quote: EvenBobIn the 80s and 90s I knew a rich woman who was the mother of a friend of mine. Worth about 20 million. She bought nothing but used cars. Every two years she would buy a low mileage Buick or Oldsmobile station wagon and trade in the four-year-old wagon. She claimed that research showed this was the absolute best way to buy a car. You got an almost new car that's broken in and got maximum value out of the trade in. She had salesman at the dealership looking for low mileage vehicles for her.
I bought new once, an Accent, and ran it 9.5 years. I was upset I did not get 10 but the thing cot me what, $3 a day in depreciation? And did I run the heck out of it.
Minivans are so practical which is why they get run to death. Rumor is they have searched for a pristine version of the first year Caravan/Voyager for display but not even 1 exists. Usually some people buy cars and never use them so you get the 13000 mile Mark III like I saw on a YT channel I watch has this kind of old boats for sale. But not the minivans. They get used!
When I was doing courier work a guy showed me a local place did just used and cheap high mileage minivans for a few thousand. The life cycle works something like this. A family buys it as a family hauler and keeps it a few years, sells it because they have the money to upgrade. Then a commercial buyer gets it and uses it for light and bulk stuff like a flower shop. Then it goes to a courier or tradesman who loads it up and runs it into the ground.
You can buy an engine diagnostic tool for $20 and check it yourself. Takes about 2 minutes. In my experience with my vehicles, the majority of "check engine light" issues are just emission issues, nothing that would affect the performance of the vehicle.Quote: EvenBobI just remembered she also said the check engine light is always on. She had her mechanic look at it he said it's coming from the front catalytic converter. But he checked it out and it's still performing okay. The computer views it as not okay so the check engine light never goes out. What this means is that when something else goes wrong you won't know about it because the check engine light is now totally useless.
Also, regarding the battery, if you wouldn't be driving it much, you could just disconnect the battery when not in use.
That said, I wouldn't want to buy a car where I had to worry about this stuff right off the jump. I'm with you -- run, don't walk away from this car!
You can get a $20 obd2 scanner with Bluetooth and link it to your cell phone. With a $10 app, it will read codes that will even direct you to the error code on the internet, which will give you all kinds of information about the problem and how to solve it. You can reset the codes if you wish. The app will do much more than that, you can leave the obd2 connected/inserted(it's small and you can't even see it) it will track mileage, gas, GPS location, show you a real-time tachometer/speedometer, it will tell you how fast your car can go from zero to 60, it will record your trips and warn you if your car is overheating, and much more. It's well worth the $30 or $40 if you own a car, or if you are buying a used one.Quote: JoemanYou can buy an engine diagnostic tool for $20 and check it yourself. Takes about 2 minutes. In my experience with my vehicles, the majority of "check engine light" issues are just emission issues, nothing that would affect the performance of the vehicle.
Also, regarding the battery, if you wouldn't be driving it much, you could just disconnect the battery when not in use.
That said, I wouldn't want to buy a car where I had to worry about this stuff right off the jump. I'm with you -- run, don't walk away from this car!
I did have some Bluetooth connection problems with it, it wasn't auto-connecting to my phone like it should have, but they say that bug has been solved with an update, I just haven't taken the time to update and check yet. I have been planning on getting a new android car stereo and connecting it to that permanently instead of my cell phone.
Quote: unJonIf you really want to “AP” it, buy one year old pre-certified used cars from the dealer every 3 years. They tend to be as good as new for “hassle” factor and it’s cheaper over time as cars depreciate much more the first year than thereafter.
My experience in looking at cars tells me that buying a one year old car from the dealer is not cheaper because you are not getting the manufacturers cash incentives. I usually only lease cars that have a large discount incentive and a higher residual. If the car doesn't have at least a $5000 manufacturer incentive and a dealer discount of at least 10% I am not getting it.
Quote: onenickelmiracleSure, you can always keep a battery jumper pack on hand and it will start right up. It really isn't that big of a deal.
Yeah, that's what I want. Be in my early 70s and
have to jump start my car in January anytime I want
to go anywhere. You got to be kidding me.
Maybe close if you’re stick to that. Cars tend to lose 20-28% of value in their first year. That’s a big nut between new and one year old.Quote: DRichMy experience in looking at cars tells me that buying a one year old car from the dealer is not cheaper because you are not getting the manufacturers cash incentives. I usually only lease cars that have a large discount incentive and a higher residual. If the car doesn't have at least a $5000 manufacturer incentive and a dealer discount of at least 10% I am not getting it.
And selling three years later is the sweet spot because it still has a year of warranty left.
Quote: unJon
And selling three years later is the sweet spot because it still has a year of warranty left.
I believe most cars only have a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty.
Quote: EvenBobYeah, that's what I want. Be in my early 70s and
have to jump start my car in January anytime I want
to go anywhere. You got to be kidding me.
It's such a small inconvenience. Pop the hood, attach your battery pack, start car, remove battery pack, close hood and drive off. You otherwise liked the minivan, this battery issue really isn't any predictor of other problems. The car being old and low priced was, but that's what you were paying for.
Quote: EvenBobRemember when you could buy a car from a private party for $6,000 and have them write $2,500 on the bill of sale so you can get out of paying sales tax on $6,000 at the DMV. Sadly those days are long gone, apparently. Now if they suspect you're claiming you paid far less than actual value, they look it up in the Kelley Blue Book and that's what they tax you on. I have no idea how long this has been going on, the 1980s was probably the last time I was familiar with this stunt.
Yes, in Nevada all cars are taxed on the value of the car and not what you paid for it.
I am currently in the process of selling my SUV to Carvana. They offered a price $3000 higher than anyone else and over Blur Book value. It is a lease and I had no intention of selling it because I assumed it was under water. My lease was only $197 a month for 3 years with no money down and it turns out somehow I have $4400 in equity.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt's such a small inconvenience. Pop the hood,
You do it and let me know how that works out. After about the tenth time you'll go, screw this, what have I gotten myself into.
I've been doing it for at a few years. Yeah aggravating sometimes, but my car usually is fine as long as I drive it every 24 hours. Wish I can go back in time and buy 2 of my cars for the same price, stole it so bad.Quote: EvenBobYou do it and let me know how that works out. After about the tenth time you'll go, screw this, what have I gotten myself into.
My Escort radar detector has a voltage meter feature. If I get in the car and it reads 10.9 volts, the car will likely not start. Sometimes if I wait a couple minutes before starting the car, the voltage will creep up a quarter volt and the car will start. Then I have to drive 45 minutes to get out of the red zone.
Quote: ChumpChangeI got the ABS Control unit replaced and a shorted tail light replaced & fixed, and got a new battery. Instead of having a hard 5 day limit on not driving the car, it's been extended to 7-10 days. I have to drive for 2 hours to really recharge the battery for the longest rest before the next drive. No tow truck will replace my battery because it's in the back seat. I may have killed my battery trying to jump a dead battery, and really, that could have been a 2 year lemon battery that I could have done without. I only get 4 tows a year with AAA, and a dead battery might top the list as reasons why. My parents used to park the car at the airport for a week or two when they went on vacation. I wouldn't even think of doing that now because a tow would be potentially necessary.
My Escort radar detector has a voltage meter feature. If I get in the car and it reads 10.9 volts, the car will likely not start. Sometimes if I wait a couple minutes before starting the car, the voltage will creep up a quarter volt and the car will start. Then I have to drive 45 minutes to get out of the red zone.
If I have a car not start even once, I get rid of the car. Luckily, it hasn't happened to me in over 20 years. Of course, my cars are never more than 3 years old.
