AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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November 15th, 2020 at 6:35:40 AM permalink
Here we go again with half-ass shutdowns. I just don't get it, this just seems to cause a slow bleeding that's dragging this out much longer than it should. I guess we plan on doing this until there's a vaccine, a vaccine that whoever I talk to says they won't even get it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DeMango
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November 15th, 2020 at 8:15:50 AM permalink
Desperation seems to have set in. After several craps sessions in Vegas with several casinos in June, I awaited juicy offers from the big boys. Wynn an epic fail, $85 a night plus resort fees. Repeated over several time frames. Venetian the first good offer, three nights, no mention of resort fees. Stations, RR and GVR, has matched. But this week the moment I waited for: Cosmopolitan three nights free, NO resort fees! Winner Winner chicken dinner!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
TDVegas
TDVegas
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November 15th, 2020 at 8:17:36 AM permalink
The powers in charge....they don’t know how to mitigate, stop or slow the spread. We may be one country, but we are also 50 states. We are unlike any other country. There is a lot of “states rights” and even “city rights” going on as far as decision making. Not much, if any national uniformity.

Trump isn’t stopping this. Biden isn’t stopping this. Fauci or Superman.

We wait for a vaccine.

Look at Nevada. About 5 months ago we were getting around 150-200 cases per day. We got 2,200 yesterday. This is after a mask mandate and many still in effect limitations. It’s safe to say...it isn’t working.

I don’t have an answer. Frankly, I don’t think anyone does without causing one or the other....a catastrophic economic collapse with closing or increasing numbers with opening.
AZDuffman
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November 15th, 2020 at 8:33:01 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

The powers in charge....they don’t know how to mitigate, stop or slow the spread. We may be one country, but we are also 50 states. We are unlike any other country. There is a lot of “states rights” and even “city rights” going on as far as decision making. Not much, if any national uniformity.

Trump isn’t stopping this. Biden isn’t stopping this. Fauci or Superman.

We wait for a vaccine.

Look at Nevada. About 5 months ago we were getting around 150-200 cases per day. We got 2,200 yesterday. This is after a mask mandate and many still in effect limitations. It’s safe to say...it isn’t working.

I don’t have an answer. Frankly, I don’t think anyone does without causing one or the other....a catastrophic economic collapse with closing or increasing numbers with opening.



There is no answer. Nobody is stopping it. People cannot take it when nature refuses to comply with their demands.

Herd immunity will happen sooner or later. Until it does keep living your life.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
darkoz
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rawtuff
November 15th, 2020 at 9:05:17 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

The powers in charge....they don’t know how to mitigate, stop or slow the spread. We may be one country, but we are also 50 states. We are unlike any other country. There is a lot of “states rights” and even “city rights” going on as far as decision making. Not much, if any national uniformity.

Trump isn’t stopping this. Biden isn’t stopping this. Fauci or Superman.

We wait for a vaccine.

Look at Nevada. About 5 months ago we were getting around 150-200 cases per day. We got 2,200 yesterday. This is after a mask mandate and many still in effect limitations. It’s safe to say...it isn’t working.

I don’t have an answer. Frankly, I don’t think anyone does without causing one or the other....a catastrophic economic collapse with closing or increasing numbers with opening.



Virus contagion control is unfortunately a situation where the whole is only as good as the individual parts.

If you had a net to catch fish and there was a gaping hole in it would you declare nets don't work to catch fish?

We are failing because everyone isn't on board with promoting proper protocol.

Ironically these same people point to the pandemic failure to be contained as their reason for not doing their duty. A self-fullfilling argument
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
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November 15th, 2020 at 9:50:37 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

The powers in charge....they don’t know how to mitigate, stop or slow the spread. We may be one country, but we are also 50 states. We are unlike any other country. There is a lot of “states rights” and even “city rights” going on as far as decision making. Not much, if any national uniformity.

Trump isn’t stopping this. Biden isn’t stopping this. Fauci or Superman.

We wait for a vaccine.

Look at Nevada. About 5 months ago we were getting around 150-200 cases per day. We got 2,200 yesterday. This is after a mask mandate and many still in effect limitations. It’s safe to say...it isn’t working.

I don’t have an answer. Frankly, I don’t think anyone does without causing one or the other....a catastrophic economic collapse with closing or increasing numbers with opening.



The UsofA has a federal governmental system, same as dozens of other countries. The Federal government has a lot of power if it chooses to use it. trump chose not to. could you imagine a President saying we are at war with Russia, but it's up to each state to figure out what works best for them? trump decided to let each state handle this on its own and quite obviously it isn't working, so a new approach is needed.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
TDVegas
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November 15th, 2020 at 10:37:51 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

The UsofA has a federal governmental system, same as dozens of other countries. The Federal government has a lot of power if it chooses to use it. trump chose not to. could you imagine a President saying we are at war with Russia, but it's up to each state to figure out what works best for them? trump decided to let each state handle this on its own and quite obviously it isn't working, so a new approach is needed.


Anytime he has suggested federal intervention when, oh, I don’t know...a city like Portland is having 260 straight days of rioting protests and the police can’t contain federal building destruction, he’s told to stay the F out.

The Governors are running the same way in a lot of states in battling covid. Even if there was a national mandate of some kind....I can guarantee many states either would not acknowledge it or make up their own.

Say the words “fed” in any big city...and there’s a good chance you’ll be ignored. Or told to get out.

The federal government has shown it has very little control as of late. Each state has been on their own.
TDVegas
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November 15th, 2020 at 10:39:18 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

There is no answer. Nobody is stopping it. People cannot take it when nature refuses to comply with their demands.

Herd immunity will happen sooner or later. Until it does keep living your life.


I’m getting to the point that Mother Nature will have to run its course. You can throw kryptonite at this virus....it bounces off.
AZDuffman
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November 15th, 2020 at 10:41:21 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

I’m getting to the point that Mother Nature will have to run its course. You can throw kryptonite at this virus....it bounces off.



It comes down to people are so used to peace and plenty that they cannot handle something bad comes up. As a historical pandemic it really feels like a lightweight. We are not talking smallpox here. Nature is still in charge no matter what we think we can do.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
terapined
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November 15th, 2020 at 10:51:46 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

I’m getting to the point that Mother Nature will have to run its course. You can throw kryptonite at this virus....it bounces off.


There are countries on this planet that have eliminated the virus because it's not political.
In Taiwan, being so close to Wuhan and visited by millions of tourists from the mainland. The entire country went on red alert with their 1st case on Jan 21.
The people and the govt were United in eliminating the enemy of the country, Covid.
No politics. Just science, technology, masks, social distancing, tracking.
They eliminated it. No new cases in over 200 days. 7 deaths.
Everything is open. Concerts packed. Life normal.
Taiwans economy grew this year
I heard a Las Vegas parking structure is set up to take patients.
The huge problem facing our country is packed hospitals meaning more deaths due to lack of medical care for cases not covid
darkoz
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November 15th, 2020 at 11:02:00 AM permalink
Quote: terapined

There are countries on this planet that have eliminated the virus because it's not political.
In Taiwan, being so close to Wuhan and visited by millions of tourists from the mainland. The entire country went on red alert with their 1st case on Jan 21.
The people and the govt were United in eliminating the enemy of the country, Covid.
No politics. Just science, technology, masks, social distancing, tracking.
They eliminated it. No new cases in over 200 days. 7 deaths.
Everything is open. Concerts packed. Life normal.
Taiwans economy grew this year



That's not freedom to certain people, lol
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
mcallister3200
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November 15th, 2020 at 12:03:39 PM permalink
If I played a drinking game for every time terapined felt it necessary to mention Taiwan I’d be dead of alcohol poisoning long before I was even exposed to the virus even by chumpchange simulations.
mcallister3200
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November 15th, 2020 at 12:14:10 PM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

Anytime he has suggested federal intervention when, oh, I don’t know...a city like Portland is having 260 straight days of rioting protests and the police can’t contain federal building destruction, he’s told to stay the F out.

The Governors are running the same way in a lot of states in battling covid. Even if there was a national mandate of some kind....I can guarantee many states either would not acknowledge it or make up their own.

Say the words “fed” in any big city...and there’s a good chance you’ll be ignored. Or told to get out.

The federal government has shown it has very little control as of late. Each state has been on their own.



This is correct but it’s also just the makeup of the citizens like Darkoz was saying, regardless of what policy the government sets the citizens are more or less going to do what they’re going to do. I don’t know how many businesses down south I’ve seen with signs that say mask required to enter all over the place inside and outside and compliance is not better than 2/3rds.
TDVegas
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November 15th, 2020 at 12:44:56 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

This is correct but it’s also just the makeup of the citizens like Darkoz was saying, regardless of what policy the government sets the citizens are more or less going to do what they’re going to do. I don’t know how many businesses down south I’ve seen with signs that say mask required to enter all over the place inside and outside and compliance is not better than 2/3rds.


States rights has been raging since Adams and Jefferson. Since the Civil war. Since Jim Crow. Since segregation was outlawed.

We are unique from every other country. We effectively have 50 countries and none of the leaders of those states (OR CITIES) wants to be told, dictated or overruled.

I’m not surprised we have a piece meal approach. The country is piecemeal. Expecting some “light bulb” to go off that says “listen and obey” to the guys in DC...is at best wishful thinking.
TDVegas
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November 15th, 2020 at 12:59:29 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

If I played a drinking game for every time terapined felt it necessary to mention Taiwan I’d be dead of alcohol poisoning long before I was even exposed to the virus even by chumpchange simulations.


It’s a very slippery slope suggesting what worked elsewhere will work here. There are so many factors...geographically, politically, culturally, family, freedom, etc, etc.

Taiwan is a tiny island....not even half as big as Maine.
ChumpChange
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November 15th, 2020 at 4:32:20 PM permalink
California: Pechanga cancels New Year’s Eve and early 2021 events due to coronavirus
Alex Groves, Press-Enterprise · October 27, 2020 at 9:40 pm

Ringing in the New Year will be a much quieter affair at Pechanga Resort Casino this year.

The Temecula area resort announced in a news release Tuesday, Oct. 27, that it is cancelling New Year’s Eve events as well as concerts scheduled for the first three months of 2021 due to the novel coronavirus pandemic.

Pechanga has typically held a variety of New Year’s events and concerts throughout its property each year that attract thousands of patrons, including dance clubs, country concerts and a dueling piano show.

The decision by Pechanga officials to postpone entertainment until later in 2021 follows similar decisions earlier in the year to cancel entertainment for the remainder of 2020.
ChumpChange
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November 15th, 2020 at 4:33:35 PM permalink
Toronto casino forced to remain shut as infections rise
Phil, G3 Newswire · November 15, 2020 at 6:21 pm

Casinos in the Canadian city of Toronto have been forced to close as it moves into the red level of Ontario’s colour-coded COVID-19 shutdown system.

Medical Officer of Health Dr. Eileen de Villa said meeting and event spaces, casinos, bingo halls and other gaming establishments would all have to close along with indoor dining.

Great Canadian Gaming Corporation said: “Casino Woodbine will no longer reopen on November 14, 2020 as a result of the City of Toronto’s announcement on November 10 that certain businesses, including casinos, will be required to remain closed as part of the effort to prevent the spread of COVID-19 in the City. It was previously announced by the company on November 4, 2020 that Casino Woodbine would be reopening on November 14, after it suspended operations for the second time on October 9, 2020.”
ChumpChange
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November 15th, 2020 at 4:35:33 PM permalink
Safety measures taken at Live! Casino Pittsburgh prior to opening
Megan Tomasic, Trib LIve · November 15, 2020 at 5:00 am

As the number of coronavirus cases continues to climb in Westmoreland County, Live! Casino Pittsburgh officials are taking extra precautions as their opening date nears.

Hand sanitizer, signs promoting social distancing and plexiglass dividers placed around table games and slot machines dominate the casino floor, located in the former Bon-Ton department store at Westmoreland Mall. The $150 million facility in Hempfield, owned by The Cordish Companies in Maryland, features restaurant and entertainment spaces. It is set to open Nov. 24.

“We don’t want anybody getting anything, even a cold,” said General Manager Sean Sullivan. “We’re going overboard to make sure you’re in a safe spot.”
ChumpChange
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November 15th, 2020 at 4:55:46 PM permalink
Germany has fewer COVID-19 cases than a few US states that have over or nearly a million cases each.

German official warns of months of severe COVID-19 restrictions
BY ZACK BUDRYK - 11/15/20 08:58 AM EST

Just In...
Michigan enacts new coronavirus restrictions on restaurants, bars, schools
STATE WATCH
— 39M 9S AGO

Washington state issues sweeping restrictions to combat coronavirus surge
— 1H 58M AGO
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— 2H 15M AGO
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— 2H 16M AGO

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****************
German official warns of months of severe COVID-19 restrictions


Germany’s economy minister said the nation should be prepared for a months-long lockdown period to address surging coronavirus caseloads.

“We’re not out of the woods yet”, Economy Minister Peter Altmaier told weekly Bild am Sonntag, according to Reuters. “We cannot afford a yo-yo shutdown with the economy constantly opening and closing.”

“If we don’t want days with 50,000 new infections, as was the case in France a few weeks ago, we must see through this and not constantly speculate about which measures can be relaxed again,” he told the publication. “All countries that lifted their restrictions too early have so far paid a high price in terms of human lives lost.”

Germany is one of several European nations that has reimposed restrictions during the second wave of the virus. While it has re-closed businesses like cafes and restaurants, it has not closed schools or retailers.

The World Medical Association chair, meanwhile, has warned German hospitals are in danger of being overwhelmed, according to Reuters.

“My forecast is that we will have to talk about further restrictions rather than any easing,” Frank Ulrich Montgomery told Augsburger Allgemeine, a German daily.

Chancellor Angela Merkel also warned last week that the second wave of the virus would likely be “more severe” than the initial outbreak.

"As it was the case with the Spanish flu, we now also have to expect that the second wave will be more severe," she told economic advisers on Wednesday.

Germany recorded 261 deaths, the highest daily number since April, last week. Overall new infections fell slightly, but Health Minister Jens Spahn warned that “we still cannot talk of a trend reversal” despite “signs of change.”

“This is encouraging but it is not enough,” he told German broadcaster RTL last week.

Germany’s totals are just under 800,000 infections and 12,511 deaths as of Sunday, according to Johns Hopkins University.
Gabes22
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November 15th, 2020 at 6:44:08 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

St. Croix Casino in Turtle Lake closing for at least a month
Clint Berge, WQOW · November 10, 2020 at 7:10 am


Those looking to get their gambling fix will not be able to do so in Turtle Lake for the foreseeable future.

On Monday, St. Croix Casino in Turtle Lake announced it would be closing on November 10 at 2 a.m. and remain closed for what they hope will be 30 days.

“The St. Croix Chippewa of Wisconsin have decided that this temporary closure is necessary for the safety and well-being of our guests, team members and our communities to help stop the spread of the COVID-19 virus,” the tribe said in a Facebook statement.



This makes me sad as it was the first casino I ever gambled in. July of 1997 at the ripe old age of 18
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
ChumpChange
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November 15th, 2020 at 8:22:40 PM permalink
I was at Turtle Lake Casino a few times in 1995 and the number of people playing 8 to 10 spot nickel Keno was astounding, couldn't get a seat. They didn't believe in comfortable seating if you're not at a slot machine or a table game either. There wasn't much there for me but lowest limit blackjack tables, and those were generally full already.

I'd play quarter Keno at my regular casino for 2 or 3 spots, 2-4 coins; payout of 16 for 1 for 2/2 spots. Can't hardly find that anymore so I'll have to play another game like craps or roulette. I think my favorite keno numbers are 19, 29, & 39. The 8 pointers would just checkmark any number ending in zero.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Nov 15, 2020
billryan
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November 16th, 2020 at 7:20:55 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

Anytime he has suggested federal intervention when, oh, I don’t know...a city like Portland is having 260 straight days of rioting protests and the police can’t contain federal building destruction, he’s told to stay the F out.

The Governors are running the same way in a lot of states in battling covid. Even if there was a national mandate of some kind....I can guarantee many states either would not acknowledge it or make up their own.

Say the words “fed” in any big city...and there’s a good chance you’ll be ignored. Or told to get out.

The federal government has shown it has very little control as of late. Each state has been on their own.



Thats because the President didn't want to take charge.
The Federal government has the ability to regulate federal banking and interstate commerce. If the President shut down the interstate highway system and declared a two week bank holiday, business would grind to a halt. As almost every state depends heavily on the Federal government's funding to run their state, the power of the purse is a powerful tool.
The current administration choose not to use it's power, for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean the power doesn't exist.
The Fed shouldn't pick and choose where it uses its power, but can you imagine a state saying it wouldn't participate in a war.
A national lockdown for a health emergency would be both legal and fairly simple to enforce. Implementing it would be complex and take some coordinating but it is a task that may be needed.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AZDuffman
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November 16th, 2020 at 8:36:01 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Thats because the President didn't want to take charge.
The Federal government has the ability to regulate federal banking and interstate commerce. If the President shut down the interstate highway system and declared a two week bank holiday, business would grind to a halt.



Not just grind to a halt, it would collapse. A daisy-chain of reactions would happen. We almost had that after 9/11 when someone realized that grounding all planes meant checks could not clear because they could not be delivered.

Shut down the interstate highway system? Do you realize what that would do to the supply chain of EVERYTHING in the USA?

We are nowhere near the level of emergency to do anything near that.

And in the end you would still have the virus.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
TDVegas
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November 16th, 2020 at 10:03:00 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Thats because the President didn't want to take charge.
The Federal government has the ability to regulate federal banking and interstate commerce. If the President shut down the interstate highway system and declared a two week bank holiday, business would grind to a halt. As almost every state depends heavily on the Federal government's funding to run their state, the power of the purse is a powerful tool.
The current administration choose not to use it's power, for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean the power doesn't exist.
The Fed shouldn't pick and choose where it uses its power, but can you imagine a state saying it wouldn't participate in a war.
A national lockdown for a health emergency would be both legal and fairly simple to enforce. Implementing it would be complex and take some coordinating but it is a task that may be needed.


Shut down the highway system? That extreme measure would likely be catastrophic. Doesn’t it say something about state and city cooperation with the federal government that the only way to get thru to them is going to the extreme?

State independence is teetering on 1850’s type recklessness. Call up any big city mayor today and if they know the feds are on the line, they won’t take the call. We are essentially operating an antagonistic type of government system of state and federal. This has trickled down to crime, immigration, managing covid, managing shutdowns. It has spread the gamut. Says a lot about “working together” when your idea of getting their attention is to shut down the roads into their state.
billryan
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November 16th, 2020 at 11:08:59 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

Shut down the highway system? That extreme measure would likely be catastrophic. Doesn’t it say something about state and city cooperation with the federal government that the only way to get thru to them is going to the extreme?

State independence is teetering on 1850’s type recklessness. Call up any big city mayor today and if they know the feds are on the line, they won’t take the call. We are essentially operating an antagonistic type of government system of state and federal. This has trickled down to crime, immigration, managing covid, managing shutdowns. It has spread the gamut. Says a lot about “working together” when your idea of getting their attention is to shut down the roads into their state.



There are times to work together and there are times to lead. In ROTC, we used to say that a donkey is a horse designed by a committee.
You don't have to shut down the highway system, you simply take control over who has access to it. Non-essential traffic would be banned., and this time pizza delivery would not be considered essential. Right now we have 1,000 people a day dead. All indications are that will be 2,000 people a day in two weeks if we don't do something. The half-assed measures we've done so far have not produced the results we need so we need to take other steps. It's not time yet to implement these plans, but it is certainly time to start making such plans., ven if they end up not being needed.
We are one nation, one people, not fifty peoples. We do not say the United States are going to war, we say the United States is going to war.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
ChumpChange
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November 16th, 2020 at 11:16:07 AM permalink
It's been so long since I watched The Postman. There's 50 states with no federal government.
EvenBob
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November 16th, 2020 at 11:43:31 AM permalink
Our lovely MI governor has shut down
all state run casinos in MI for 3
weeks. Indian casinos are not effected
because she can't order them to do
anything. At the end of 3 weeks
she'll extend it another month and
then more extensions after that.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
VladAlex1
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November 16th, 2020 at 12:12:17 PM permalink
Good read report
https://www.americangaming.org/resources/aga-commercial-gaming-revenue-tracker/
I’d rather have to be a lucky player than good one.
TDVegas
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November 16th, 2020 at 2:02:16 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Our lovely MI governor has shut down
all state run casinos in MI for 3
weeks. Indian casinos are not effected
because she can't order them to do
anything. At the end of 3 weeks
she'll extend it another month and
then more extensions after that.


These are part of the reason why it’s impossible to get a uniform response. Tell Taiwan to shut down their Indian casinos. Oh, yeah....there are none.

The good ol USA is unique in that many favor states rights...or tribal rights. The Governors most assuredly favor states rights. The mayors???? Forget it....they don’t know or don’t care what a federal government does. Other than real draconian actions...it’s doubtful you can get their attention.

We wait for Pfizer and Moderna for the rescue. Las Vegas has not even touched the surface of the economic damage coming down the road. The bankruptcies, the unemployment, the businesses gone forever, the unemployment insurance expiring, the alcohol and drug problems, broken marriages, stress deaths.

Need a vaccine FAST. It may already be too late for some areas of the country. The NYC exodus isn’t going to magically return.
Wizard
Administrator
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November 16th, 2020 at 2:23:29 PM permalink
Quote: sammydv

Seriously? I'm looking forward to your announcement you have covid-19. Just hope you don't die from it. It's ignorant selfish people like you that made this virus last as long as it had in the US and around the world. The simplest thing ever is to wear a mask and wash with regular soap and stay some distant from strangers and that's too much trouble and inconvenience for you?

And you sound like you wouldn't admit it if you got covid. And no, nothing you said was even close to a common sense position. Your position is one of abject ignorance.

It's not about you, it's about protecting other people even more. Good God.

You inconsiderate selfish fool.



Normally a first offense gets three days only for personal insult, but this one is almost nuke worthy. However, since there are no priors, your sentence is two weeks.
Last edited by: Wizard on Nov 17, 2020
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
billryan
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November 16th, 2020 at 6:20:50 PM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

These are part of the reason why it’s impossible to get a uniform response. Tell Taiwan to shut down their Indian casinos. Oh, yeah....there are none.

The good ol USA is unique in that many favor states rights...or tribal rights. The Governors most assuredly favor states rights. The mayors???? Forget it....they don’t know or don’t care what a federal government does. Other than real draconian actions...it’s doubtful you can get their attention.

We wait for Pfizer and Moderna for the rescue. Las Vegas has not even touched the surface of the economic damage coming down the road. The bankruptcies, the unemployment, the businesses gone forever, the unemployment insurance expiring, the alcohol and drug problems, broken marriages, stress deaths.

Need a vaccine FAST. It may already be too late for some areas of the country. The NYC exodus isn’t going to magically return.



In an average year from 2010-2019, 419,000 NYC residents left to move elsewhere. This year, the USPS is on pace to handle 450,000 change of addresses outside of the city. Many of my friends have second homes in the Hamptons, Poconos or Vermont and are choosing to stay there until the pandemic ends. The NYC exodus will most certainly reverse, especially when the new administration is more immigrant friendly.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
racquet
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November 17th, 2020 at 8:07:17 AM permalink
Shutting down the highway system and other drastic, wide-ranging suggestions require general acceptance from the population as a whole.

Do you recall the federally mandated, nationwide 55-mph speed limit in the seventies?

The federal government did not have the authority to impose it. Rather, Congress passed a law that withheld federal highway funding from individual states that did not, on their authority, impose one of their own. Some states (I recall Texas and Wyoming, among others) declined to do so, and never lost any federal money. Other states imposed the limit but did not enforce it.

Does the federal government have the authority, legally, to close the interstate? And if it does, what about the people who don't need I-95 to get from point A to point B?

Assuming such a shutdown was adopted, how is it enforced? Do you put a state trooper at every on-ramp? Since it's a federal law, maybe it's the FBI? The US Army?

What's the penalty? A ticket? A fine? A court appearance? Maybe it's shoot-on-sight any vehicle found on the road?

A lot of the pushback on the various state-imposed restrictions have to do with their unenforceability, and the myriad examples of where the restrictions are meant only for the little people. Gee, Speaker Peolosi, your hair-do looks especially fetching today. Where did you get it done?

A few You-Tube videos of various governors and special people tooling down the barren interstate in their state-provided armored vehicles ought to go over REALLY well. Like seeing Al Gore arrive at a Greenpeace rally in his private jet and Lincoln Town Car.

But the more absurd the idea, the better. I'm reminded about the restrictions placed on tennis players at the start of this. You could play tennis, but - and this was a real rule - you couldn't touch the other players balls.

Good luck with that.
ChumpChange
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November 17th, 2020 at 8:13:07 AM permalink
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AZDuffman
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November 17th, 2020 at 8:43:44 AM permalink
Quote: racquet



The federal government did not have the authority to impose it. Rather, Congress passed a law that withheld federal highway funding from individual states that did not, on their authority, impose one of their own. Some states (I recall Texas and Wyoming, among others) declined to do so, and never lost any federal money. Other states imposed the limit but did not enforce it.



Incorrect, every state mandated it. The feds would pull funding if they did not keep a certain % of drivers at 55 or under. Some states, like Montana, made the fine $5 max and no points, payable on the spot. People kept $5s under their sun visor. One state, AZ but I forget exactly, did raise the limit to 65 but backed down within hours.
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billryan
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November 17th, 2020 at 11:32:14 AM permalink
The Federal Government may or may not have the power to make wearing a seat belt mandatory but what it did have was the ability to withhold highway funding from any state that didn't mandate it. They did the same in raising the drinking age to 21. The current administration thought that it should step back and let businesses and states do their job. Hopefully, future administrations don't repeat their utter failure.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
racquet
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November 17th, 2020 at 8:26:46 PM permalink
The law is one thing. Enforcement is another. You can pass a seatbelt mandate or a speed limit and then just ignore it, as was done with both of these things in various states.

How would you enforce a closed freeway?

Wyoming passed a 55mph limit and then never bothered to enforce it. In Rhode Island they misrepresented the portion of the public that was driving under 55. No state lost a penny of state funding.

Highway closure is different. There are cars on the road, or not. Do you barricade the onramps?
Commish
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November 18th, 2020 at 8:47:27 AM permalink
Much of NY has barricades on the on ramps which they use for snow closures.
racquet
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November 18th, 2020 at 10:26:38 AM permalink
Quote: Commish

Much of NY has barricades on the on ramps which they use for snow closures.



You close off a ramp or two for snow, when there is an accident or a bridge collapses. Short term, or if long term, for a very short distance.

But shutting down the entire length of a highway? We're going to need a lot more barricades.
darkoz
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November 18th, 2020 at 10:38:33 AM permalink
Quote: racquet

You close off a ramp or two for snow, when there is an accident or a bridge collapses. Short term, or if long term, for a very short distance.

But shutting down the entire length of a highway? We're going to need a lot more barricades.



On 9/11 NYC was completely shutdown to any incoming or outgoing roads.

No bridges, no tunnels, no on/off ramps, no deliveries, etc

If memory serves it was 48-72 hours before even minor opening. A week before serious interstate travel resumed
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garyt1957
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November 18th, 2020 at 11:10:07 AM permalink
Here in Mi there is no smoking in the casinos right now, mask wearing mandatory. Which is as it should be, imo. Actually casinos just shut down again for 3 weeks.
billryan
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November 18th, 2020 at 1:10:48 PM permalink
Quote: racquet

You close off a ramp or two for snow, when there is an accident or a bridge collapses. Short term, or if long term, for a very short distance.

But shutting down the entire length of a highway? We're going to need a lot more barricades.



You seem to assume there will be mass disobedience. I believe the vast majority of the population will respect any such mandate. If a lockdown was implemented and highways closed, I assume gasoline sales would be severely limited and only to those vehicles that were authorized. As commercial drivers are certified by the Federal government, I doubt many would be willing to exchange their livelihood for a day or two of joyriding.
The key to a lockdown is giving people enough time to prepare for it and have a system in place for people to resupply if needed.
I do not believe we are at the point such a lockdown is needed, but it is certainly time to make such plans. I'm starting to stock up on food and necessities and suggest everyone should,at a minimum, make such plans. We are months away from this being over, and it looks like it is about to get pretty dark.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AlanMendelson
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November 18th, 2020 at 1:40:02 PM permalink
I'm afraid a new shutdown in Vegas is inevitable. And since the holiday season between Thanksgiving and Christmas is traditionally slow, this would have less economic consequence.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/nevada/sisolak-restrictions-to-slow-spread-of-covid-19-coming-very-soon-2186014/
billryan
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November 18th, 2020 at 2:02:51 PM permalink
Southern Australia starts a total lockdown tomorrow after twenty-two new cases in the last week. Meanwhile, we are approaching 200,000 new cases a day.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
DRich
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November 18th, 2020 at 2:06:33 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm afraid a new shutdown in Vegas is inevitable. And since the holiday season between Thanksgiving and Christmas is traditionally slow, this would have less economic consequence.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/nevada/sisolak-restrictions-to-slow-spread-of-covid-19-coming-very-soon-2186014/



I don't forsee Sisolak closing the casinos anytime soon. My guess is he will take a half ass approach and close down restaurants, bars, gyms, etc. I just hope the golf courses stay open.
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mcallister3200
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November 18th, 2020 at 2:31:36 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Southern Australia starts a total lockdown tomorrow after twenty-two new cases in the last week. Meanwhile, we are approaching 200,000 new cases a day.



The lockdown will be much more effective in a place where there’s minimal cases than where it’s completely out of control. Unfortunately we are simply beyond the point where It’s possible that would achieve the desired result, it would be like leaving in the feeding tube of someone who’s completely brain dead. Don’t misinterpret was that as me thinking we should be having large gatherings, unmasked indoors and the like but we’re just beyond the point we can stamp it out.
Last edited by: mcallister3200 on Nov 18, 2020
ChumpChange
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November 18th, 2020 at 4:51:36 PM permalink
If a 10-12 week lockdown can reduce new COVID-19 cases by 90%, we'll go from 200K new cases a day to 20K new cases a day, which is our historical low since April.
Just the past 6 weeks has been hyperbolic for new cases.

Past two days, NYS tests about 150K per day and finds 5K new cases per day, or a 3.33% positivity rate. https://tinyurl.com/vseg6cj
If 35K get sick each week, and 20% of those need hospitalization, that's 7,000 people who need hospitalization. Numbers will keep going up unless something is done, like shutting the hospital doors to newcomers.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Nov 18, 2020
mcallister3200
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November 18th, 2020 at 4:55:01 PM permalink
If pigs could fly they would be birds.

In the rosy scenario pulled out of thin air where it’s 20k cases what happens then when you open back up if vaccine isn’t ready? Ah I’m already dead who cares. Your low case since April citing completely ignores amount of increased testing. Obviously things are bad now and getting worse no denying that.
billryan
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November 18th, 2020 at 5:28:06 PM permalink
I've heard all sorts of figures thrown around. Most seem to indicate a month-long shut down would be pretty effective but I've read tracing the virus is very possible at 10-15,000 new cases a day.
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kewlj
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November 18th, 2020 at 5:40:38 PM permalink
You have to understand that at this point any kind of lockdown or restrictions is not about getting the virus under control. THAT boat has sailed a long time ago. The concern right now is just flattening the curve enough that hospitals, and medical personnel aren't overrun. And I am not so sure THAT boat hasn't already sailed as well.

Alan makes a good point about the period between Thanksgiving and Christmas traditionally being the slowest time of the year in Vegas. Under normal circumstances, some restaurants and shows shutdown for several weeks. Imagine this year. And the Rodeo (and several hundred thousand fans and participants) usually comes to town for 10 days (2 weekends) the first two weeks of December to fill some of that void. THAT isn't happening this year.

So that would be the best possible time for another 3 week shutdown, but I don't think a shutdown would do much at this point. Too many cases to get anything under control, so how do you open up again in 3-4 weeks when the numbers are even higher?
DRich
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November 18th, 2020 at 5:43:16 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj


So that would be the best possible time for another 3 week shutdown, but I don't think a shutdown would do much at this point. Too many cases to get anything under control, so how do you open up again in 3-4 weeks when the numbers are even higher?



I don't think a 3 or 4 week closure will satisfy many people. I would expect closer to two months. I think the idea is to slow it to closer to the time the first vaccines will be available.
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