Should Kavanaugh by required to take polygraph test during the up coming FBI investigation?
Poll
 | 4 votes (33.33%) | ||
| | 9 votes (75%) |
12 members have voted
Quote: VCUSkyhawkLOL. I seriously doubt that. I believe that some feminist do hate men. I doubt many if any wish they were men. Why would you want to be a man, we have a lower life expectancy.
Quote: AZDuffmanBack to the matter at hand, it is going to be interesting to see how long it takes for the feminists and other haters to move on to the next "crisis." The illegal alien kids have long since been forgotten. The internet is still open to all. But something will be found.
Let’s start with how the NYT uncovered proof this week that Trump stole a half billion dollars from the federal government. It’s like robbing a bank and then the bank makes you their CEO.
#conjob
Quote: SteverinosLet’s start with how the NYT uncovered proof this week that Trump stole a half billion dollars from the federal government. It’s like robbing a bank and then the bank makes you their CEO.
There is nothing wrong with tax minimization. Taxes are theft by the government at the point of a gun. I salute anyone who finds a legal way to pay less. But yes, maybe they go back to obsessing over his tax returns. Meanwhile he will keep moving the ball forward, likely by pulling Japan into USMCA Trade Area Deal.
But for today, FIRST DOWN, TRUMP!
Quote: SOOPOOThis is a joke, right? You actually think you KNOW she didn't lie? Puhhlease!!!!! I find it incredible that someone can claim they remember that they drank EXACTLY one beer on a night they were assaulted but have no recollection about how they got home, who drove her, etc.....
Your painful story, as opposed to hers, is filled with all the details one would expect of a truthful allegation.
Is it possible she is telling the truth.... yes.... anything is possible, but it is not likely.
I think if we could have a actual test of memory of people at the same event 40 years ago we'd have plenty of wrong, missing info. If we compiled all their memories independently, would you call everyone who got something wrong, or forgot something a liar? I would remember if something traumatic happened to me, but I don't know that I could remember my best friend was upset about something and left the event.
Quote: SteverinosLet’s start with how the NYT uncovered proof this week that Trump stole a half billion dollars from the federal government. It’s like robbing a bank and then the bank makes you their CEO.
#conjob
Are you talking about this article? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/us/politics/donald-trump-fred-trump-tax-schemes.html
There's literally nothing in there, other than (essentially) speculation and saying things that aren't concrete. The closest they have is with the $41.4m apartment and it being sold for 16x later that decade. Not entirely sure how all that works, but I have a feeling the value of that complex grew an incredible amount. For them to get duped and thinking it's worth 1/16'th of what it really was....that just screams incompetence.
They made a business that funneled money through, increased it by 20%, then gave that to Fred's kids? Okay. Where's the crime? Were taxes properly paid on the income of any and all businesses?
It's hilarious, people seem to have this idea that if you can outsmart the IRS and take advantage of the tax code, that you're evading taxes and/or doing something wrong. Some people also have this idea that you get richer somehow, by doing that. That's equivalent to an extreme-couponer -- are they committing crimes by using coupons in an advantageous way? Do they become richer (as opposed to not spending as much) by doing so? The answer to both is a resounding: No!
Am I a criminal, cheat, or now richer because when I buy a car, I can talk the guy down an extra $1,000 and that person over there can't?
Quote: Keyser#Meetoo is not a legal process. The women like Ford do NOT deserve to be heard. They did not file police reports, they did not go through the legal process. They are a distraction from women that really do suffer from sexual assault.
So, you really believe in the entire set of all 15 y/o girls only the ones who went to the police at the time it happened were sexually assaulted?
Quote: AZDuffmanMotive is simple. She is a ***** hat wearing anti-Trumper. TDS is strong in this one. Thinks that destroying a man's reputation is no big deal for her idea of a greater good.
SO, are you''re saying a highly partisan person much like yourself has no problem lying? Or you just apply that to one side.. Didn't you once answer someone here that Trump never lies?
Quote: AZDuffmanTaxes are theft by the government
AND since few of us if any haven't received some benefit of other people's taxes at some point you're just as complicit in the crime.
Quote: RSAre you talking about this article? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/us/politics/donald-trump-fred-trump-tax-schemes.html
There's literally nothing in there, other than (essentially) speculation and saying things that aren't concrete. The closest they have is with the $41.4m apartment and it being sold for 16x later that decade. Not entirely sure how all that works, but I have a feeling the value of that complex grew an incredible amount. For them to get duped and thinking it's worth 1/16'th of what it really was....that just screams incompetence.
They made a business that funneled money through, increased it by 20%, then gave that to Fred's kids? Okay. Where's the crime? Were taxes properly paid on the income of any and all businesses?
It's hilarious, people seem to have this idea that if you can outsmart the IRS and take advantage of the tax code, that you're evading taxes and/or doing something wrong. Some people also have this idea that you get richer somehow, by doing that. That's equivalent to an extreme-couponer -- are they committing crimes by using coupons in an advantageous way? Do they become richer (as opposed to not spending as much) by doing so? The answer to both is a resounding: No!
Am I a criminal, cheat, or now richer because when I buy a car, I can talk the guy down an extra $1,000 and that person over there can't?
Didn't click in the link, but if that's the NYT attempted hit piece, I stopped reading after the first paragraph or so. Once they mentioned him paying 51 million dollars in taxes for one thing I just stopped. Once you make that kind of payment once in your lifetime you should get a lifetime exemption. Freeloaders can find another teet to suck on and they can go to their mommy for sympathy too life's problems.
#F-IRS
Quote: rxwineSo, you really believe in the entire set of all 15 y/o girls only the ones who went to the police at the time it happened were sexually assaulted?
If it was serious then they should have. Even if it was a few years later, she could have. Waiting 30 years and then deciding to play that card? I don't think so!!!
The accused have rights too!
Quote: Mission146They were invented for the purpose of evidence-gathering, in general.
And part of the evidence gathered is,
sometimes the woman wasn't raped
at all. No semen, so sign of forced
entry, no indication she was touched.
A woman says she was raped, the cops
get out a rape kit to find the evidence
of it.
Quote: Keyser#Meetoo is not a legal process. The women like Ford do NOT deserve to be heard.
I agree, and so did the lady prosecutor
at the hearing. In her report she said
no court would listen to any of this,
all she has is a story with zero evidence
to back it up. She has nothing.
I climbed Mt Everest last week. Just take
my word for it, I have no proof.
Quote: Dalex64I'd probably be a pretty rich "self made" man if I started with 4 tenths of a billion or so.
Actually, probably not, no matter what
you started with. It's very easy and far
more common to take money given
to you in an inheritance, lottery, whatever,
and lose it, than to make it grow to many
times it's starting amount. That takes
something most people just don't have.
Trump has it in spades..
Quote: EvenBobAnd part of the evidence gathered is,
sometimes the woman wasn't raped
at all. No semen, so sign of forced
entry, no indication she was touched.
A woman says she was raped, the cops
get out a rape kit to find the evidence
of it.
The cops aren’t the ones who, “Get out,” the rape kit. It’s conducted in a medical setting by doctors and/or nurses, then given to the cops.
Yeah, maybe sometimes she wasn’t raped at all. There’s a big difference between that and saying they were invented because so many women were lying about it.
Quote: Mission146saying they were invented because so many women were lying about it.
Do you know how hard it was to convince
cops that you were raped, before there
were rape kits. They would often call
you a liar and tell you to go home. They
heard it all the time. This is from the story
of how rape kits started in the early 70's:
There was no standardized protocol to collect and share forensic evidence, nor was there an understanding of the psychological trauma attached to these crimes. If a woman didn't appear sufficiently traumatized, her claims were often dismissed.
And if emergency rooms even bothered
to test the victim, they often did it poorly
and misplaced the results. So rape kits
were invented to not only help identify the
rapist, but to give the cops proof the
woman was actually raped.
Quote: KeyserPlaying the sexual assault card after 20 or 30 years without first filing a police report isn't cool and it should be played as a political weapon.
I'm seeing the sleazy porn lawyer being
blamed by Lefties all over the place for
overplaying his hand and ruining the
good scam they had going on. When
the Left starts throwing their own under
the bus, that's the gratifying part. He's
been on TV over 300 times in the last
year, they love him.
You know that whack job Ginsberg is due to check out any day now. She is in bad health and lost her marbles long ago. Let's see Trump make it three justices!
Trump should be a lock for the next presidential election.
MAGA!
Quote: EvenBobDo you know how hard it was to convince
cops that you were raped, before there
were rape kits. They would often call
you a liar and tell you to go home. They
heard it all the time. This is from the story
of how rape kits started in the early 70's:
(Nonattributed quote)
And if emergency rooms even bothered
to test the victim, they often did it poorly
and misplaced the results. So rape kits
were invented to not only help identify the
rapist, but to give the cops proof the
woman was actually raped.
To your first paragraph, that’s exactly my point, they were for the purpose of gathering evidence, but not because people were lying.
I agree about proof, but it’s not to prove that she’s lying, evidence could well prove she’s telling the truth.
So, they weren’t invented, “Because so many women were lying,” as you initially claimed, but because the claims were often not taken as seriously as they should have been without medical proof AND perhaps because cops tended to assume victims were lying.
Again, most people are only going to want to be subjected to a rape kit if they are telling the truth or believe they are telling the truth. I don’t know why that should be a difficult concept. If a woman didn’t get raped and knows she didn’t get raped, then what the hell would she want to subject herself to the test for?
Even if Swetnick’s allegations were sufficient to paint Kavanaugh as an accessory to rape, (again, she never claims to have actually seen him do anything) Swetnick herself would be just as much an accessory after the fact for not reporting it. And then, I have to accept that someone is stupid enough to continue to party with people who are constantly drugging and raping women. I think the most recent Avengers movie required less of a suspension of disbelief from me.
Anyway, they should be straight p!$$3d at Avenatti, because without his and Swetnick’s nonsense, Kavanaugh would come off like a nutjob ranting the way he did about a concerted effort to take him down. Avenatti and Swetnick’s actions make that at least not a completely unreasonable accusation. You could see where he might feel that way.
If I’m the DNC, maybe I would offer Avenatti a couple million just to go lie low and do his L.A. attorney thing for a year and a half until it comes time for him to lose in the primaries.
Quote: EvenBobI'm seeing the sleazy porn lawyer
For some reason I don't recall the sleazy porn lawyer saying he assaults women by grabbing them by the pussy.
Quote: rxwineFor some reason I don't recall the sleazy porn lawyer saying he assaults women by grabbing them by the pussy.
That was just locker room style talk. Trump's heterosexual, get over it.
I suppose he would have gotten a free pass if he was a lesbian though, right?
Quote: KeyserI suppose he would have gotten a free pass if he was a lesbian though, right?
Trump was running for President and you probably voted for the scumbag. Ellen is not.
Then, I'm guessing you liked and voted for his wife, right?
Trump may be guilty of some locker room talk, so what. Clinton was likely guilty of rape!
Quote: KeyserTrump may be guilty of some locker room talk, so what.
You're just gullible. The creepo that brags about going back and seeing pagent contestants naked and talking nasty about his own daughter and has many accusers as well.
care if it’s a lefty or a righty!
Cosby is a sicko. Clinton is a
sicko. :) YAWN.
At least Trump beat Clinton
in 2016! :)
Quote: rxwineYou're just gullible. The creepo that brags about going back and seeing pagent contestants naked and talking nasty about his own daughter and has many accusers as well.
Someone seems a tad upset. This too shall pass with time. Old Kav looks like he's good to go for at least 20 years or so.
Quote: Mission146So, they weren’t invented, “Because so many women were lying,”
Sure they were, and to get the medical
profession to do a better job. Even with
the rape kits, they still aren't taking it
seriously. The cops are still so disdainful
of women claiming rape, authorities
are finding abandoned rape kits that
were never turned in for testing all
over the country. In Detroit alone
they found 11,000 that were never
sent in, going back decades.
Quote: RS
At least Trump beat Clinton
in 2016! :)
That's the crux of it. I'm on record here
as saying Clinton had to lose, the future
of the country depended on it.
Quote: Mission146because without his and Swetnick’s nonsense, Kavanaugh would come off like a nutjob ranting the way he did about a concerted effort to take him down.
But Kavanaugh wouldn't have made that
speech if the Swetnick stuff hadn't come
forth. So it's a moot point.
Quote: petroglyphI hoped for a few days after your revealing having been raped, that maybe you might have moved it to another thread, like maybe the "I've got a secret thread"? It was to powerful to waste on politics.
Then Sally stepped up the first step, and I was again thinking, maybe something good could come of it? Might even be some other female, [or male] members that might have wanted to come forward? Life ain't easy, being an empath.
Having raised daughters, I had questions about why you never told your dad? What he might have said, could have been the wisest thing he ever told you. Excuse me, for taking a second and speaking from a fathers pov.
Anyway, that was a very personal thing from both of you, thanks to both for sharing.
I sort of wish now I had told him. I hated having a secret from him. I think my mom was wrong about that, as well as the shame she thought i had brought on the family.
Perhaps she was protecting my dad from a murder charge.
Quote: EvenBobBut Kavanaugh wouldn't have made that
speech if the Swetnick stuff hadn't come
forth. So it's a moot point.
Kavanagh made that stupid speech because Trump and McGahn told him to. Trump was pissed because Kav came off like a wuss in that Fox interview. They coached him for over a week on what to say and how to act. He was at the WH training the whole time, several hours a day. The media was on Madonna Watch with the guy and reported it.
While we're on the subject, the whole "one beer" thing - it's not surprising at all she remembered that. She was 15. Beer was illegal. She might even been drinking her first beer ever but if not, there wouldn't have been many before it. I don't know why people here have focused on that so much.
Quote: beachbumbabsKavanagh made that stupid speech because Trump and McGahn told him to. Trump was pissed because Kav came off like a wuss in that Fox interview. They coached him for over a week on what to say and how to act. He was at the WH training the whole time, several hours a day. The media was on Madonna Watch with the guy and reported it.
While we're on the subject, the whole "one beer" thing - it's not surprising at all she remembered that. She was 15. Beer was illegal. She might even been drinking her first beer ever but if not, there wouldn't have been many before it. I don't know why people here have focused on that so much.
If she was 15 that would make Kav what? 12 or so.
The video hasn't changed my mind completely about him, but I'm a little bit closer to the fence than I was before. The video below is in a spoiler, since it may be deemed NSFW.
Quote: beachbumbabs
While we're on the subject, the whole "one beer" thing - it's not surprising at all she remembered that. She was 15. Beer was illegal. She might even been drinking her first beer ever but if not, there wouldn't have been many before it. I don't know why people here have focused on that so much.
It is focused on for two reasons. One, it is one of the few details she remembers. Everything else is general, but she knew she had one beer. Very strange.
Second. saying she had "one beer" is a classic way of her trying to prove she was not drunk and thus not absolving her from blame. You even said, "she might have been drinking her first beer." If she was at a party and ended up alone with one or a few boys then chances are low that it was her first beer or her first party.
Put another way, her saying she "had one beer" is a bit like the excuse of, "he was cleaning his gun and it went off." Those of us that know better know better. If a cop heard her say that he would likely give an , "uh huh" back.
Quote: EvenBobSure they were, and to get the medical
profession to do a better job. Even with
the rape kits, they still aren't taking it
seriously. The cops are still so disdainful
of women claiming rape, authorities
are finding abandoned rape kits that
were never turned in for testing all
over the country. In Detroit alone
they found 11,000 that were never
sent in, going back decades.
Would an article about the inventor of them talking about how he invented them so claims would be taken seriously help you?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2015/11/20/health/rape-kit-history/index.html
It mentions in there that cops had a tendency not to believe women who didn’t seem sufficiently traumatized.
I’m just wondering if you’re getting that there’s a difference between lying and not being believed. See, someone can not believe a person who is telling the truth. So, it’s not about people lying, it’s just about cops not believing them and the evidence collection shortcomings you mentioned.
As far as untested rape kits, those kits didn’t prove or disprove anything other than the fact that a huge chunk of law enforcement, if not society, basically doesn’t/didn’t GAF if someone is raped...which is one of the reasons you have women’s movements and #MeToo in the first place.
Quote: EvenBobBut Kavanaugh wouldn't have made that
speech if the Swetnick stuff hadn't come
forth. So it's a moot point.
You can argue either way. He might have called it a hit job even with just the two accusers. I think it’s impossible to know.
Quote: Mission146
So, they weren’t invented, “Because so many women were lying,” as you initially claimed, but because the claims were often not taken as seriously as they should have been without medical proof AND perhaps because cops tended to assume victims were lying.
You are getting lost in word games here. You seem upset about the "lying" thing.
Reality is on a college campus today sex can be consensual the night that it happens but "rape" the following morning. It is a dangerous place for men. But the same behaviors and thoughts have been there all along. So if things go all the way and she decides the next morning that it was "date rape" then but the rape kit shows no signs of force, then indeed she is lying. OTOH, if she is telling the truth then it gives forensic evidence.
It might be a hard fact to accept, but women have lied for years to trap men. How many say they are on the pill but "it must not have worked!" Time was if the baby had the same blood type only it could prove paternity. Accuse the right guy, get a check. Positive pregnacy tests sold openly on craigslist. Putting holes in condoms or "spermjacking" the contents of a used one.
This is all real. And this is a huge reason why I and others do not simply buy into Ms. Ford's story. Seen too much of the real world.
Quote: beachbumbabs
While we're on the subject, the whole "one beer" thing - it's not surprising at all she remembered that. She was 15. Beer was illegal. She might even been drinking her first beer ever but if not, there wouldn't have been many before it. I don't know why people here have focused on that so much.
Objection, speculation!
By the time my friends and I were fifteen, we were pretty much half beer and half hard stuff. In any case (some girls included) we were all a few dozen cases removed from, “Our first beer.”
Quote: MaxPenIf she was 15 that would make Kav what? 12 or so.
No, Ford is two years younger than Kavanaugh. You’re thinking of Swetnick, who is older.
He's just delivering that to Christine to make up for her only getting to have one beer at the party.Quote: RSActual footage of Kavanaugh has just been released showing how much beer he could drink. There's no audio, but you can see people cheering him on. It's not the greatest video quality (sorry, idk what year this was taken). I think it's kind of odd how some people have this "look at how much I can drink" or "how much weed I can smoke" attitude or whatever, as if doing more is better....kinda off-putting tbh. NOTE: He wasn't smoking weed and there doesn't appear to be weed present in this, just used that as an example of the whole "frat rat / macho man" thing.
The video hasn't changed my mind completely about him, but I'm a little bit closer to the fence than I was before. The video below is in a spoiler, since it may be deemed NSFW.
Quote: RSClinton is a scumbag! I don’t
care if it’s a lefty or a righty!
Cosby is a sicko. Clinton is a
sicko. :) YAWN.
At least Trump beat Clinton
in 2016! :)
You do realize it was a different clinton running in 2016?
Quote: AZDuffmanYou are getting lost in word games here. You seem upset about the "lying" thing.
Yeah, because they weren’t invented to, “Weed out the liars.” You should thank EvenBob for that gem. That sort of rhetoric is the kind of thing people hear, find out the speaker is Republican and then immediately decide they’ll never vote Republican.
Quote:Reality is on a college campus today sex can be consensual the night that it happens but "rape" the following morning. It is a dangerous place for men. But the same behaviors and thoughts have been there all along. So if things go all the way and she decides the next morning that it was "date rape" then but the rape kit shows no signs of force, then indeed she is lying. OTOH, if she is telling the truth then it gives forensic evidence.
Do you know what date rape means? You get that you can have rape without signs of forced penetration, right?
You see, there’s this concept that may also be new to you called, “Consent,” and how it works...
Anyway, I know lots of people don’t like the notion of, “Consent,” because it’s not a black or white thing, but that’s the way of it.
Like I said before, I wouldn’t have sex with anyone new without a written and notarized statement saying we, in general terms, consent to have sex with one another.
Quote:It might be a hard fact to accept, but women have lied for years to trap men. How many say they are on the pill but "it must not have worked!" Time was if the baby had the same blood type only it could prove paternity. Accuse the right guy, get a check. Positive pregnacy tests sold openly on craigslist. Putting holes in condoms or "spermjacking" the contents of a used one.
What does this have to do with rape kits?
Here’s the answer: ALWAYS use a condom that YOU are the one to open that YOU pull out of your wallet if this is something you’re worried about.
Or, don’t have sex. You could always just not have sex if you’re worried about this sort of thing. Don’t Republicans generally favor that, “Abstinence-Only,” education? Why is it not working out so well for you guys?
Do you really want to take it for granted that your partner is taking her pill at the same time every day, or at all? Just insist on always using a condom, if she says no, don’t have sex with her. It’s really not that difficult.
Quote:This is all real. And this is a huge reason why I and others do not simply buy into Ms. Ford's story. Seen too much of the real world.
Yeah, so have I. In the real world, some people actually do try to have sex with other people without their consent. Crazy, I know. Again, statements such as the one quoted above are why you have the #MeToo movement in the first place, and women automatically not being believed, so you really have yourselves to thank for that.
The only reason I write off Swetnick’s claims is that she’s talking not just about rape, not just about gang rape, but serial gang rape at parties that, beyond all comprehension, she continued to attend. That’s not to say that drunken gang rape NEVER happens, it happened a few years ago at a party with a bunch of people from a local high school. But, serial gang rape and nobody at the time ever says anything? No, don’t think so.
Quote: MaxPenSomeone seems a tad upset. This too shall pass with time. Old Kav looks like he's good to go for at least 20 years or so.
The hilarity if he passes away next year from cirrhosis of the liver from over drinking
Quote: darkozYou do realize it was a different clinton running in 2016?
You do realize that the one running was the same woman that NUMEROUS women said threatened them when they made allegations of sexual assault against her husband. So yeah, she is not an assaulter, but she certainly didn't care about the women her husband allegedly assaulted.
