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SanchoPanza
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February 20th, 2017 at 10:35:01 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

I work in corporate business travel sending clients all over the planet Its my business to know risk. Very little risk going to Sweden.

"Little risk" relative to what? Lesotho?

"Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country, violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in Southern Africa." gatestpme institute
rxwine
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February 20th, 2017 at 11:55:28 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I watched it, it appeared to be 60 Minutes on CBS.



It's Australia's 60 minutes program, btw.
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Tanko
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February 21st, 2017 at 3:03:17 AM permalink
Reported yesterday in Swedish Press:

Meanwhile, Rioting Breaks Out in Sweden
lilredrooster
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February 21st, 2017 at 3:13:06 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

, don't come here illegally. Problem solved.



You didn't solve any problems. You wrote some simple words that no one will follow because the problem is much more complex than you seem to be able to fathom.The problem that you are grappling with is much different and much tougher than figuring out how to beat a casino machine.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
bobbartop
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February 21st, 2017 at 6:16:15 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

It's Australia's 60 minutes program, btw.



Ok, well thanks. I figured I must be missing something, having walked into this thread in the middle, and also having not recognized any of the players on Australian 60 Minutes. But still, isn't their 60 Minutes legitimate news? In the past I have found myself complaining of our 60 Minutes unfairly raking some businessman over the coals, but I haven't exactly labeled them "fake news". (maybe I should) But this story doesn't look fake. It fits in with other accounts about what's happening in Europe that I believe. Sweden's a mess. They're committing national suicide.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
lilredrooster
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February 21st, 2017 at 6:18:19 AM permalink
Major alt right leader and Breitbart News Editor Milo Yiannopoulos just self destructed by endorsing and supporting pedophilia in a video that was just released. He's toast.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/20/14671498/milo-yiannopoulos-cpac-speech-canceled-pedophilia-tape

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/us/politics/cpac-milo-yiannopoulos.html?_r=0
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
ams288
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February 21st, 2017 at 6:26:48 AM permalink
It's funny. Donald says something completely ridiculous about "what's going on" in Sweden (based on a terrible hit piece he saw on FOX News), and we end up with multiple pages of righties (some of who claim not to be Trumpsters) bashing Sweden.

Curious.

Did the Bowling Green Massacre happen in Sweden? That'd explain a lot...
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lilredrooster
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February 21st, 2017 at 7:13:41 AM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

"Little risk" relative to what? Lesotho?

"Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country, violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in Southern Africa." gatestpme institute



You're right that a homogenous society will likely have less crime and violence than one that is not because there tend to be rivalries and difficulties between the various ethnic groups. But there are other great benefits that a non homogenous society is likely to realize. The U.S. is a non homogenous society and always has been. And our economic and technical power and prowess is greater than that of any other country. The first European settlers in the U.S. in Jamestown, Virginia were English. After that, many others came from all over the world. It wasn't long before we overtook England and every other country as leaders of the free world.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Romes
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February 21st, 2017 at 8:36:35 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Reported yesterday in Swedish Press:

Meanwhile, Rioting Breaks Out in Sweden

That sure was an ace report... by Tyler Durden...
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Tanko
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February 21st, 2017 at 9:11:43 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

That sure was an ace report... by Tyler Durden...



Yes it is.

Read it again. The report includes links to Dagbladet and Expressen.

I would have included the links myself, but I assumed no one here can read Swedish, and the highlighted links in the report were enough.

Here is the Breitbart link to the same story.
JohnnyQ
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February 21st, 2017 at 10:06:30 AM permalink
Just interesting, imho:

"petition to “Immediately release Donald Trump’s full tax returns, with all information needed to verify emoluments clause compliance” passed more than 1 million signatures since it was launched on Inauguration Day. White House petitions need to draw more than 100,000 signatures within 30 days to be considered for an official response from the White House".

Article:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/resistance-report-more-than-1-million-sign-white-house-petition-for-trumps-tax-returns-breaking-record-145625519.html

Official White House Petition Site:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
Romes
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February 21st, 2017 at 10:20:24 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

...Here is the Breitbart link to the same story.

Thanks for proving this is a worthless story if Breitbart posted it. They're a well known racist and bigoted source for made up and severely biased stories.
Last edited by: Romes on Feb 21, 2017
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
OnceDear
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February 21st, 2017 at 10:25:51 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

It's Australia's 60 minutes program, btw.


Quote: http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6379970

Citing the filed police report, Byström said: “There was a scuffle between a number of youngsters and the TV crew. The young people were in a car and when they left they drove over the cameraman’s foot.”

There were no other injuries or damages, said Byström, contradicting media reports of more violent scuffles.

Byström added that when the police arrived at the scene and took the TV crew's statements, the youths had already left. There are no suspects and no arrests have been made, he said.

60 Minutes have apparently partnered with Avpixlat, a Swedish anti-immigration online outlet which describes itself as working in the spirit of “alternative journalism”** and as a “thorn in the side of the PC-establishment’s journalists and politicians”. Avpixlat claims to expose “inconvenient truths and opinions about Swedish immigration and migration policy”.

Reports in global media outlets have referred to Avpixlat as a Swedish “media outlet” and “news service”. However, much of Swedish mainstream media, including newspaper Expressen, have labelled Avpixlat as a "hate site." Avpixlat also has links to the Sweden Democrat Party.


"Alternative media" no doubt dispensing "Alternative facts"
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Tanko
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February 21st, 2017 at 10:50:12 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Thanks for proving this is a worthless story if Breitbart posted it. They're a well known racist and bigoted source for made up and severally biased stories.



I see. If Breitbart reported it, it never happened.

Got it.

More racist and bigoted sources for the same story:

CNBC

Washington Post
AxelWolf
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bobbartop
February 21st, 2017 at 11:08:02 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

You didn't solve any problems. You wrote some simple words that no one will follow because the problem is much more complex than you seem to be able to fathom.The problem that you are grappling with is much different and much tougher than figuring out how to beat a casino machine.

I didn't? Dammit, I thought I had. Next, I was going to solve world hunger in 2 words.

I was misguided. I always thought for each advantage bet I made it magically deported one illegal immigrant. That's the real reason I got interested in AP.

Thanks to you I now realize its more complex and there is no simple way to solve this problem, especially not with AP.
I thought everyone was solving all the worlds problems right here on this very forum. Thanks to you, I now realize everyone is just writing words here. I now realize its not helping anyone, no matter how well crafted their words might be.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
bobbartop
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February 21st, 2017 at 11:54:05 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I didn't? Dammit, I thought I had. Next, I was going to solve world hunger in 2 words.



I may be confusing him with another poster but I seem to recall him saying he is 25 years old. I'm just sayin. lol
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
lilredrooster
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February 21st, 2017 at 11:55:50 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf


no matter how well crafted their words might be.




These are your words:

" don't come here illegally. Problem solved"

Not going to meet anyone's definition of well crafted.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Ernesto
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February 21st, 2017 at 3:59:19 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

The vast majority of these immigrants that you are referring to are/were Catholic. They follow the strictures of the Pope and the Vatican which include a prohibition against birth control and abortion. Abortions are particularly abhorrent in many countries where the population is largely Catholic. They didn't regard having a baby as a "risk." To them, that is a part of life which fulfills the individuals and cannot be tampered with no matter what soil they are on. Ironically, what you are suggesting, abortion, is a procedure against which Trump and his supporters strongly stand. You favor "cracking down" even if they were hard working and contributing. How do you feel about "cracking down" on APs (I'm not pointing the finger at you) who fudged on their taxes? The fact that you didn't seem to know that their Catholicism prevents them from doing what you suggest, suggests that you don't know very much at all about these people.



Oh I see Sorta like ISIS killing infidels. It's just their religion.
rxwine
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February 21st, 2017 at 7:20:01 PM permalink
Quote:

Prosecutors in Ukraine are investigating whether a member of Parliament committed treason by working with two associates of President Trump’s to promote a plan for settling Ukraine’s conflicts with Russia.
In a court filing on Tuesday, prosecutors accused the lawmaker, Andrii V. Artemenko, of conspiring with Russia to commit “subversive acts against Ukraine,” in particular by advancing a proposal that could “legitimize the temporary occupation” of the Crimean peninsula. Russia forcibly annexed the peninsula in 2014, a step that Ukraine, the United States and other governments have refused to recognize; Mr. Artemenko said his proposal would allow Ukraine to formally cede control of the territory to Russia, at least temporarily.



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-lawmaker-who-aided-trump-associates-faces-treason/ar-AAnbrrG?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
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rxwine
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February 21st, 2017 at 8:49:35 PM permalink
And this will likely get a mixed reaction.

Quote:

Walmart is warning against President Trump's proposed border adjustment tax, saying it would raise the cost of goods for US shoppers.

"The border tax is a concern," Walmart Chief Financial Officer Brett Biggs said Tuesday on a call with reporters. "Anything that would raise prices for customers in the US is a concern for us."

The company had previously joined a coalition of retailers against the tax, but this is the first time executives have spoken out against it.



http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/wal-mart-speaks-out-against-trump-proposal-in-warning-to-us-shoppers/ar-AAnaV5C?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
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darkoz
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February 22nd, 2017 at 7:23:11 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

And this will likely get a mixed reaction.



http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/wal-mart-speaks-out-against-trump-proposal-in-warning-to-us-shoppers/ar-AAnaV5C?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp



I learned in 5th grade social studies that tarriffs meant to protect american business from foreign goods competing only resulted in higher prices passed to the consumer or a denial in goods wanted from those countries
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mcallister3200
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February 22nd, 2017 at 7:43:55 AM permalink
The American people have paid an estimated 10 million dollars for trump family trips to Mar A Lago in his first month in office. Seems like a responsible use of taxpayer money. According to a conservative watchdog group, Obama spent 87 million on travel in 8 years.
RonC
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February 22nd, 2017 at 8:26:48 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I learned in 5th grade social studies that tarriffs meant to protect american business from foreign goods competing only resulted in higher prices passed to the consumer or a denial in goods wanted from those countries



Should we allow countries like China to pay people next to nothing and produce cheap goods for our markets at the cost of having better paying jobs and a bit more expensive things here? If I pay a little more for a product and a little less in taxes for benefits for the unemployed, might the trade-off be worth it?

These kinds of issues bring up a lot of good questions and I am not going to be like some and pretend that I know all the answers.

If we buy stuff from China produced by children working in unsafe conditions--something we worked hard to change here--are we really good citizens of the world?
darkoz
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February 22nd, 2017 at 8:54:30 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

Should we allow countries like China to pay people next to nothing and produce cheap goods for our markets at the cost of having better paying jobs and a bit more expensive things here? If I pay a little more for a product and a little less in taxes for benefits for the unemployed, might the trade-off be worth it?

These kinds of issues bring up a lot of good questions and I am not going to be like some and pretend that I know all the answers.

If we buy stuff from China produced by children working in unsafe conditions--something we worked hard to change here--are we really good citizens of the world?



If everyone felt that way they would just buy american. Basically u r saying those people who cannot afford to pay higher prices must now do so

Most likely those people will hav to ask for additional government assistance because the highed cost of paying american leaves them unable to pay their rent. And there goes your hope of paying less taxes for the lower class

Fyi. I kno quite a few people with full time jobs on public assistance. I know someone who gets paid $900 every 2 weeks from her library job but her rent is $2000 a month for a 2 bedroom apt in ny. Guess what she qualifies fod rental monthly subsidies. Raising costs for her will qualify her for more not less
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Romes
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February 22nd, 2017 at 10:01:10 AM permalink
It's "mostly" not on the individual consumer... The differnece in cost to the consumer might be $1.99 vs $3.99... but the manufacturer is where it hits the businesses hard. If a company can get 100,000 units in america for a cost of $4 each, but 100,000 units in china at $2 each, well shit, that's $200k savings. If you were running a business why on earth wouldn't you go to china for the better deal? After all, having a business and employing people IS providing jobs to americans at the end of the day. The problem is these differences get so large that a lot of companies see more value in simply leaving than staying. What if it was the same scenario now where 1,000,000 units cost $4 each in america, but 1,000,000 units in china cost $0.25 each? $3,750,000 savings (per year or run or whatever)? Probably worth posting up shop on that manufacturer and running base from there...
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
steeldco
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February 22nd, 2017 at 10:10:00 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

Should we allow countries like China to pay people next to nothing and produce cheap goods for our markets at the cost of having better paying jobs and a bit more expensive things here? If I pay a little more for a product and a little less in taxes for benefits for the unemployed, might the trade-off be worth it?

These kinds of issues bring up a lot of good questions and I am not going to be like some and pretend that I know all the answers.

If we buy stuff from China produced by children working in unsafe conditions--something we worked hard to change here--are we really good citizens of the world?



You're willing to pay a little more, eh? Spoken by someone who will gripe later when he sees how it has increased his cost of living.
I think that the average household income is around $55K. Let's deduct around 25% of that for housing since housing wouldn't get directly impacted by tariffs or cross border taxes or a VAT (all of which serve the same function). After the 25% we're left with around $41K in disposable income. The vast majority of which you will be paying an additional 20% for one of the aforementioned taxes (or some combination of them). $8,200 of additional taxes paid on consumption by that family. Ridiculous! You think that the average Joe is going to want to spend that? Kiss your economy good-bye! Tell Trump to stick it........

As a matter of fact, I believe that Hillary Clinton and Trump should be sharing a jail cell together.
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billryan
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February 22nd, 2017 at 10:14:19 AM permalink
A few years ago,when there was a lead paint in toys scare in China, I watched an interview with a toy expert and a Mattel executive. The expert said that manufacturing Hot Wheels in America would change the price from the current sub one dollar range to the three or four dollar range. The Mattel exec agreed the price would go up, but didn't think it would be that much.
Are Americans willing to pay double or triple for an item to support jobs for people who aren't skilled enough to find good work now? It might be cheaper to keep giving them their thousand dollars a month welfare and buy from China.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
steeldco
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February 22nd, 2017 at 10:27:20 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

A few years ago,when there was a lead paint in toys scare in China, I watched an interview with a toy expert and a Mattel executive. The expert said that manufacturing Hot Wheels in America would change the price from the current sub one dollar range to the three or four dollar range. The Mattel exec agreed the price would go up, but didn't think it would be that much.
Are Americans willing to pay double or triple for an item to support jobs for people who aren't skilled enough to find good work now? It might be cheaper to keep giving them their thousand dollars a month welfare and buy from China.



I consulted for a company who made a DIY home product. It cost them (in round numbers) $350 to make it. They found a Chinese supplier who sold them the same product for just under $100. That product is sold in stores for around $160. If they had continued to make the product here, it would have to sell around $500+. People need to think through and get an understanding of the numbers and related impact. If you thought that the growth under Obama was bad, wait until you see what impact these ridiculous taxes will have.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
steeldco
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February 22nd, 2017 at 10:37:31 AM permalink
Quote: steeldco

I consulted for a company who made a DIY home product. It cost them (in round numbers) $350 to make it. They found a Chinese supplier who sold them the same product for just under $100. That product is sold in stores for around $160. If they had continued to make the product here, it would have to sell around $500+. People need to think through and get an understanding of the numbers and related impact. If you thought that the growth under Obama was bad, wait until you see what impact these ridiculous taxes will have.



Now that I think about it, the prospects would be even worse than a 20% increase on the imported goods! Why? Because the 20% would still not level the playing field. Per the example above, it still wouldn't bring jobs back. All it would do is increase government coffers, which might be OK if they reduced our debt. But we all know they won't. They'll spend it on some other crap.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
RonC
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February 22nd, 2017 at 10:54:43 AM permalink
Quote: steeldco

You're willing to pay a little more, eh? Spoken by someone who will gripe later when he sees how it has increased his cost of living.



First of all you are talking about what I would do in that case. You don't know me and you have no clue what I would.

Second, I put questions out there; I did not take a position.

Some people jump right to conclusions...
steeldco
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February 22nd, 2017 at 11:08:45 AM permalink
Just a little bit more info for those who don't want to take the time to do the research......

The following is per KPMG in an August 2014 report. You can view it at kpmg.com/content/da/kpmg/pdf/2015/03/china-tax-profile-2014.pdf.

The Chinese Corporate income tax rate is 25%. Ours is 35%. They have an edge there.

They ALSO pay a VAT of anywhere between 13% AND 17%, which is not paid for on exports. So, on their products consumed locally, corporate tax payments are around 25% + 13%, or 38%. For exports they pay just the 25%. A melded rate would leave us on nearly level footing.

Don't believe the politicians who, either because they are trying to lie to us or who simply don't know the facts, tell us that they are just leveling the field by adding additional taxes. The field is nearly level now. They try to spin the facts by saying that foreign companies have an edge because they don't charge the VAT on their exports. Of course they don't. That's just misdirection and missinformation. It's not consumed by them AND they are already paying a tax on it.

They need to take into consideration ALL types of taxes paid and not just cherry pick those that support the lies that they want to spin.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
AxelWolf
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February 22nd, 2017 at 11:20:57 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

These are your words:

" don't come here illegally. Problem solved"

Not going to meet anyone's definition of well crafted.

Yes, because I literally meant and thought that would solve the problem.
And where did I say my idea was well crafted? I thought I said there was no simple solution no matter how well crafted their post was? I think that indicated my simple solution was not well crafted.

I'm not sure what you want from me? If you are taking everything I say literally, then you should re-read my last post. I basically thanked you and said you have learned me a thing or two.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Feb 22, 2017
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Tanko
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February 22nd, 2017 at 2:08:34 PM permalink
Quote: steeldco

JDon't believe the politicians who, either because they are trying to lie to us or who simply don't know the facts, tell us that they are just leveling the field by adding additional taxes. The field is nearly level now.



Yes, the difference in manufacturing costs between the US and China is about 5%. It would be even lower if the Chinese were not cheating through currency manipulation, unfair labor practices, and intellectual property theft.

If they want to continue that policy, they can expect tariffs. We've used them as a defense against mercantilism throughout our history. Reagan imposed a 100% tariff on Japanese electronics and computers in the late 1980's. LA Times

Mexico has agreed to renegotiate NAFTA. The threat of a tariff is a bargaining strategy.

Great Article: Washington Post

It even mentions Secretary Clinton's 2012 deal with South Korea that cost 75,000 US jobs.
jjjoooggg
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February 22nd, 2017 at 2:49:41 PM permalink
From what i heard that countries already had past bans. But it isnt a total ban on muslims. Because 1.5 billion muslims or 20% of the world live in 240 countries. It is just a rebadging of banned countries as muslims.
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jjjoooggg
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February 22nd, 2017 at 3:36:36 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Yes, the difference in manufacturing costs between the US and China is about 5%. It would be even lower if the Chinese were not cheating through currency manipulation, unfair labor practices, and intellectual property theft.

If they want to continue that policy, they can expect tariffs. We've used them as a defense against mercantilism throughout our history. Reagan imposed a 100% tariff on Japanese electronics and computers in the late 1980's. LA Times

Mexico has agreed to renegotiate NAFTA. The threat of a tariff is a bargaining strategy.

Great Article: Washington Post

It even mentions Secretary Clinton's 2012 deal with South Korea that cost 75,000 US jobs.



Mexico families lost thier businesses when Nafta open the country to foreign made goods. I read how rare chinese products were in mexico before nafta

I know someone is going to flame me for grammar someday
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rxwine
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February 22nd, 2017 at 4:09:36 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Great Article: Washington Post

It even mentions Secretary Clinton's 2012 deal with South Korea that cost 75,000 US jobs.



If you think that's great read this one from the Post.. This article is only a couple days old compared to that one of last September.

Quote:

As the Wall Street Journal first reported (and as I’ve independently confirmed through my own sources), the Trump transition team instead ordered CEA staffers to predict sustained economic growth of 3 to 3.5 percent. The staffers were then directed to backfill all the other numbers in their models to produce these growth rates.

Set aside for a moment the sheer intellectual dishonesty of this approach. Let me first offer context for how nutty such a forecast would be.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-trump-team-is-already-cooking-the-books/2017/02/20/a793961e-f7b2-11e6-be05-1a3817ac21a5_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop&utm_term=.043b98b0b9c9
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TomG
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February 22nd, 2017 at 9:03:18 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

Should we allow countries like China to pay people next to nothing and produce cheap goods for our markets at the cost of having better paying jobs and a bit more expensive things here?



Better pay for Chinese workers will not mean better paying jobs for American workers.

Quote: RonC

If I pay a little more for a product and a little less in taxes for benefits for the unemployed, might the trade-off be worth it?



That would be a horrible trade-off. You really aren't any better off (paying less in taxes is offset by paying more as a consumer). But the unemployed are now worse off as they have less benefits.
lilredrooster
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February 23rd, 2017 at 3:17:50 AM permalink
Bozo the Clown (Trump) is a con man. Probably even most of his supporters wouldn't dispute that. 5 will get you 10 that lots will follow his lead and try to rip off on the filing of their taxes by April 15. The IRS is in for major headaches.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
mcallister3200
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February 23rd, 2017 at 3:30:27 AM permalink
I plan on having my taxes filed by April 18th
Tanko
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February 23rd, 2017 at 4:48:11 AM permalink
Quote: jjjoooggg

Mexico families lost thier businesses when Nafta open the country to foreign made goods. I read how rare chinese products were in mexico before nafta



Heavily subsidized US produce sent to Mexico under Nafta has forced 2 million Mexicans to leave their farms and has raised consumer prices in Mexico.

NY Times

Obama promised to renegotiate Nafta for this and other reasons, but he pushed TPP instead. TPP would have been ruinous for Mexico. They owe Trump on that one.

With Nafta renegotiations pending, Mexico has announced plans to find alternative sources for produce, which will surely burst the US farm bubble.

US farms are heavily leveraged, and even with government subsidies, US farm incomes are collapsing.

Zero Hedge
steeldco
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February 23rd, 2017 at 6:46:03 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Yes, the difference in manufacturing costs between the US and China is about 5%. It would be even lower if the Chinese were not cheating through currency manipulation, unfair labor practices, and intellectual property theft.



I can readily tell you that 5% is not real world. There is a huge difference in costs between US and China. See below quote from US Department of Commerce report that is actually, overall, trying to promote US manufacturing. Note the significant difference in wages in the next to last sentence. In addition, I can without reservation assure you that US firms have not been closing doors in order to save 5%. The mere thought of that is well, ridiculous.


"Rising wages may impact the calculus of a company's margin of profit. In labor-rich markets like China, workers' wages have been climbing at a fast clip through the 2000s. Between 2000 and 2014, the average wage bill in China's manufacturing sector, as well as overall average wages, increased at a 13.7 percent annual rate, or close to six times the overall inflation rate.[ii] In contrast, the hourly compensation of manufacturing workers in the United States increased at a 2.9-percent annual rate during the same period, or 0.6 percentage points faster than growth in consumer prices. If these growth rates were to continue, U.S. wages by 2020 would be about 4 times higher than Chinese wages, down dramatically from 2008 when U.S. wages were 20 times higher than wages in China.[iii] This changing calculus should give companies pause."
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
lilredrooster
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February 23rd, 2017 at 8:11:05 AM permalink
You guys want true facts, right? You don't want fake news; you want true facts. Right? I'll give you some true facts:


Bozo the Clown (Trump) during the campaign holding up the National Enquirer with a photo he claimed was Ted Cruz's father with Lee Harvey Oswald, implying that the elder Cruz was involved in the JFK assassination.


Now there are some true facts. I saw it happen with my own eyes.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on Feb 23, 2017
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
rxwine
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February 23rd, 2017 at 11:44:56 PM permalink
Got to hand it to Trump if he follows through. Can't just enforce federal laws you like and ignore others if you're the "law and order" President.

Quote:

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Thursday that he expects states to be subject to “greater enforcement” of federal laws against marijuana use, a move that could undercut the growing number of jurisdictions moving to legalize the drug for recreational purposes.

Spicer, speaking at a White House press briefing, said that President Trump sees “a big difference” between use of marijuana for medical purposes and for recreational purposes.

“The president understands the pain and suffering that many people go through who are facing, especially terminal diseases, and the comfort that some of these drugs, including medical marijuana, can bring to them,” Spicer told reporters.

Spicer said that state’s allowance of marijuana for recreational purposes “ is something the Department of Justice, I think, will be further looking into.”



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/23/spicer-feds-could-step-up-anti-pot-enforcement-in-states-where-recreational-marijuana-is-legal/?utm_term=.db5bfbfe09a1
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darkoz
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February 24th, 2017 at 4:23:11 AM permalink
Colorado is making a mint off recreational legalized marijuana. This is going to cone down to some battle when the feds start taking away an economic boon. Prostitution is legal in only one state. Imagine if nevada starts getting looked at for law and order as well

If history shows lessons its that prohibition style government tactics cost money give rise to criminal outfits and do not stop the usage.

Just how much federal dollars is trump going to blow on this one lol
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Tanko
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February 24th, 2017 at 4:44:02 AM permalink
Quote: steeldco

I can readily tell you that 5% is not real world. There is a huge difference in costs between US and China. See below quote from US Department of Commerce report that is actually, overall, trying to promote US manufacturing. Note the significant difference in wages in the next to last sentence. In addition, I can without reservation assure you that US firms have not been closing doors in order to save 5%. The mere thought of that is well, ridiculous.



Note, I said 'manufacturing costs', not 'wages'.

There is a significant difference in wage costs between China and the US, but wages are only a component of total manufacturing costs.

Manufacturing costs in China are only 5% lower than they are in the USA.

"China's estimated manufacturing cost advantage over the US has shrunk from 14% to just 4%."Boston Consulting

"It's just a cheap to make goods in the USA." Bloomberg

"US manufacturing costs almost as low as China's." Fortune

"Chinese manufacturers setting up shop in the US."
USA Today

"Manufacturers bringing jobs back to the US." USA Today
Dalex64
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February 24th, 2017 at 4:52:52 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Got to hand it to Trump if he follows through. Can't just enforce federal laws you like and ignore others if you're the "law and order" President.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/23/spicer-feds-could-step-up-anti-pot-enforcement-in-states-where-recreational-marijuana-is-legal/?utm_term=.db5bfbfe09a1



That sounds like he will be selectively enforcing the federal drug laws.

I don't think there is a federal provision allowing medical marijuana, so he wants to continue to not enforce the federal laws against medical marijuana but does want to enforce them on recreational marijuana?
steeldco
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February 24th, 2017 at 7:36:30 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Note, I said 'manufacturing costs', not 'wages'.

There is a significant difference in wage costs between China and the US, but wages are only a component of total manufacturing costs.

Manufacturing costs in China are only 5% lower than they are in the USA.

"China's estimated manufacturing cost advantage over the US has shrunk from 14% to just 4%."Boston Consulting



OK. You did indeed say manufacturing cost and not wages. My apologies for misunderstanding.

However, I am not buying into your statement of a 5% difference. Not yet anyway.
I have taken a bit of time to look into the Boston Consulting data and I find the following in their notes:

"Weighted average cost structures are calculated using a mix of U.S. industries.
Labor costs are adjusted for productivity.
No difference is assumed for other costs (for example, raw-material inputs, machine and tool depreciation, and computer hardware and software).
Chinese labor and productivity data are for the Yangtze River Delta region.
U.S. Economic Census; U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis; International Labour Organization (United Nations); Euromonitor; Economist Intelligence Unit; Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development; and BCG analysis.

Within their notes I see where they state that no difference is assumed for "other costs". Assuming that I am not misunderstanding something again, they didn't include the differences on a large item such as raw-material inputs? Really, why wouldn't they? Typically on a manufacturing side raw materials are either the #1 or #2 largest cost. So conceivably there is at least another 5% differential there. Probably much larger.

A "mix of U.S. industries" may also prove to be a concerning variable. I'll have to give that further thought.

I will be looking further into the what you have presented. At the risk of being a jerk, there is no way that I buy into your numbers.
I have had 2 first hand experiences, with the latest being around 2 years ago, and 5% was not even close to the difference between what it cost us to make the product and what it cost us to import it from China. On top of it, it flies in the face of common sense to believe that US manufacturers would shut their factories to achieve a 5% cost savings, which probably correlates to around 1.5% of revenue. I can't think of any exec who would do so considering the associated risks of switching from locally made to an international import.

I'll find some time later to take a look at the other items that you mentioned.

DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
steeldco
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February 24th, 2017 at 7:37:58 AM permalink
My apologies for the odd looking post. Apparently I do not know how to properly use the quote feature........or I haven't had enough coffee yet............
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
mcallister3200
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February 24th, 2017 at 8:23:31 AM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

That sounds like he will be selectively enforcing the federal drug laws.

I don't think there is a federal provision allowing medical marijuana, so he wants to continue to not enforce the federal laws against medical marijuana but does want to enforce them on recreational marijuana?



Was pretty foreseeable with Sessions as appointee that they may go that route. All this could possibly do is drive transactions to the black market. Feds could enforce against the businesses that sell recreationally, but they're not going to be involved with recreational customers (don't have resources/waste of time), and if the state/local law enforcement won't enforce it/have it as legal, it's just going to drive them to purchase it from the black market.

So much for the republican platform of limited government....I think it's an empty threat, but a shame that they're threatening not to respect the will of the voters in those states, and for the business owners who may have an elevated level of concern.
Last edited by: mcallister3200 on Feb 24, 2017
steeldco
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February 24th, 2017 at 9:26:03 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

Note, I said 'manufacturing costs', not 'wages'.

There is a significant difference in wage costs between China and the US, but wages are only a component of total manufacturing costs.

Manufacturing costs in China are only 5% lower than they are in the USA.

"China's estimated manufacturing cost advantage over the US has shrunk from 14% to just 4%."Boston Consulting

"It's just a cheap to make goods in the USA." Bloomberg

"US manufacturing costs almost as low as China's." Fortune



So in doing a little research I find that as of 02/13/17, per SteelBenchmark.com, that anything with steel as a material component will have a huge difference in costs between the US and China. A cost that the Boston Consulting report would not have included since it is a material cost. Using hot rolled steel as an example, the cost in the United States is $618 per ton. The cost in China is $467 per ton. A cost that is 45.82% higher in the United States than in China. This manufacturing cost that wasn't included in the Boston Consulting report. A rather major item to be excluding.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
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