RNC: Make America Dumber
Quote: AZDuffmanLast time it was this low was 30 years ago, before so many women worked.
You realize the difference between the high and low on this graph is 5% right? Graphed to prove your point, not the truth.
Quote: rsactuaryQuote: AZDuffmanLast time it was this low was 30 years ago, before so many women worked.
You realize the difference between the high and low on this graph is 5% right? Graphed to prove your point, not the truth.
And you do realize the difference between 5 and 10% unemployment is the difference between near-full employment and a severe recession and the difference between 10 and 15% is the difference between a severe recession and a near-depression?
Quote: bobbartop
This is interesting that I didn't even go to school and I understand what apparently no one else in this thread understands. That is the problem, the rest of you went to school, and that's why you're confused on this simple concept. They indoctrinated you.
What you are seeing it what I had explained as the "bucket of common sense" concept. We are born with a bucket of common sense. Early education helps fill the bucket. But the more advanced education you get the more of the common sense that spills out of the bucket and is lost.
They miss the thing on inflation because some smart person tells them otherwise. Same on global warming, simple questions must be dismissed because a scientist said it had to be. Question the indoctrination and you will be mocked.
Which candidate was it who sail he loves his poorly educated supporters? I forget.
Quote: AZDuffman
And you do realize the difference between 5 and 10% unemployment is the difference between near-full employment and a severe recession and the difference between 10 and 15% is the difference between a severe recession and a near-depression?
What is the source for that statistic?
Additionally, it shouldn't be too surprising that the labor force participation rate is dropping; part of that is that more and more Baby Boomers are starting to retire, and they are a huge segment of the population. I know that the Veterans Affairs Administration is expecting a huge upturn in disability claims and health benefits in the coming years because of this, and they are even anticipating a dropoff like 20 years from now as Baby Boomers start dying off.
Edit: Here is an article which address some of the concerns with regards to that chart:
http://qz.com/286213/the-chart-obama-haters-love-most-and-the-truth-behind-it/
Yes, the way it's written is kind of biased, but it does raise some good points.
Quote: TigerWuWhat is the source for that statistic?
Paying attention to life. This is not the faculty lounge, I do not need to find a cite for something most any intelligent adult understands. If you do not know that 5% unemployment is pretty good and 10% has been reached only twice since we started really keeping track I will refer you here.
Quote:Additionally, it shouldn't be too surprising that the labor force participation rate is dropping; part of that is that more and more Baby Boomers are starting to retire, and they are a huge segment of the population. I know that the Veterans Affairs Administration is expecting a huge upturn in disability claims and health benefits in the coming years because of this, and they are even anticipating a dropoff like 20 years from now as Baby Boomers start dying off.
Meh. There are more millennials than baby boomers now. Add in 42MM immigrants, which over half the number of boomers. Yes, I know that there are a lot of millennials in the immigrant number. But the point is under Obama government disability and food stamp use are at record levels. People are dropping out of the workforce in huge numbers.
Feel free to dig thru the manure that Obama has been leaving looking for the pony all you like, thought.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhat you are seeing it what I had explained as the "bucket of common sense" concept. We are born with a bucket of common sense. Early education helps fill the bucket. But the more advanced education you get the more of the common sense that spills out of the bucket and is lost.
They miss the thing on inflation because some smart person tells them otherwise. Same on global warming, simple questions must be dismissed because a scientist said it had to be. Question the indoctrination and you will be mocked.
What I learned about government, history, and basic economics I learned in 7th and 8th grade, in private school. I ended up not going further in school, but I have seen textbooks from community colleges and it is full of chapters on civil rights but nothing about the founding fathers. Except if it is about the founders it is in a negative context.
In 7th grade I knew who Von Mises was, I also knew we are a republic, not a democracy, and what the difference between the two is. I also learned that most people throughout history have lived under oligarchies, and again that was in 7th grade. Do you think the average college boy knows who Von Mises is or the difference between a republic, a democracy, and an oligarchy? How many on this forum do you think have read The Law or know who Frederick Bastiat was? I doubt very many. This is bad news for our nation. Who is going to produce? Who is going to farm? Who is going to manufacture? A bunch of wannabe advantage players with a college degree? lol We are so screwed.
Quote: billryanPerhaps the reason almost none of the folks here agree with you has something to do with the fact they went to school.
Which candidate was it who sail he loves his poorly educated supporters? I forget.
What is the significance of closing your post with a comment about some candidate? What does that have to do with me or my comments about inflation? Get back to me when you can express a coherent point. And be gentle, I missed out on formal education.
Did you ever stop to think that college courses don't teach the founding fathers is because it is taught in grade school. Collegiaete level English literature doesn't teach Dick and Jane, either.
Be proud of being poorly educated. Donald loves you.
Quote: AZDuffmanI do not need to find a cite for something
So, no providing cites or evidence to support your claims... No refutations of the cites and evidence I've provided...
We'll just go ahead and stick a fork in this one. You have a great weekend, brother!
Then so does deflation for precisely the same reason. If the purchasing power of currency fluctuates either way, someone loses compared to yesterday. Ergo, the only "fair" economy in your worldview is one in which perfect stasis is mandated, and the only way to do that is with the opposite of a free market -- a 100% controlled one. Good luck with that.Quote: bobbartopNobody else answered this, so I will. Inflation is ALWAYS a bad thing, because it amounts to theft.
Quote: billryanThat is sadly obvious.
Did you ever stop to think that college courses don't teach the founding fathers is because it is taught in grade school. Collegiaete level English literature doesn't teach Dick and Jane, either.
Be proud of being poorly educated. Donald loves you.
Let me guess. 24? 23? 18? Keep going?
Your reply was great. I'm keeping it. I swear to God, it's getting saved. I'm going to share it.
I hope I'm not getting punked, I'm a sucker for a good troll. If so, Bravo!.
By the way, who's Donald?
Quote: bobbartop
By the way, who's Donald?
Donald Duck. He did some time in the Navy. I think his uncle is super-rich, but not sure if either of them are politicians.
Quote: MathExtremistThen so does deflation for precisely the same reason. If the purchasing power of currency fluctuates either way, someone loses compared to yesterday. Ergo, the only "fair" economy in your worldview is one in which perfect stasis is mandated, and the only way to do that is with the opposite of a free market -- a 100% controlled one. Good luck with that.
MathExtremist, you have a swell knack for twisting my words and being basically disingenuous. You're going to go far in this world, young man. A word of advice, screw Kenny Rogers, DO count your chips while sitting at the table. And bet on Monsanto.
Quote: TigerWuSo, no providing cites or evidence to support your claims... No refutations of the cites and evidence I've provided...
We'll just go ahead and stick a fork in this one. You have a great weekend, brother!
I provided a link to an Econ-101 course, which you need to take if you do not understand 10% unemployment is sever recession level and 5% is good. I am not searching for links to "prove" that anymore than I will to prove the sky is blue.
Quote: AZDuffmanI provided a link to an Econ-101 course, which you need to take if you do not understand 10% unemployment is sever recession level and 5% is good. I am not searching for links to "prove" that anymore than I will to prove the sky is blue.
Okay, man.
P.S. Is your name a Simpsons reference?
You say inflation is theft, I show why it's not, and you resort to an ad hominem retort. Well done.Quote: bobbartopMathExtremist, you have a swell knack for twisting my words and being basically disingenuous. You're going to go far in this world, young man. A word of advice, screw Kenny Rogers, DO count your chips while sitting at the table. And bet on Monsanto.
And your assumptions that I am particularly young and have not already gone far in this world are both incorrect.
Quote: TigerWu
P.S. Is your name a Simpsons reference?
Nope
Quote: MathExtremistYou say inflation is theft, I show why it's not, and you resort to an ad hominem retort. Well done.
Inflation is totally theft. If I were to borrow 5 apples from you but pay you back 4 you would be completely upset and call me a deadbeat. The government does it and you think there is somehow no problem?
Quote: AZDuffmanIf I were to borrow 5 apples from you but pay you back 4 you would be completely upset and call me a deadbeat. The government does it and you think there is somehow no problem?
I am ROFL. wow.
Quote: AZDuffman
Inflation is totally theft. If I were to borrow 5 apples from you but pay you back 4 you would be completely upset and call me a deadbeat.
That is actually one of the arguments for why inflation is "good."
If you borrow a certain amount of money, then pay it back in installments over a certain number of years, with inflation you will end up paying less. Therefore, inflation is good for debt holders.
I think it's a completely spurious argument, but it's one that people actually make with regards to inflation.
Quote: rsactuaryI am ROFL. wow.
Yeah, wow back at you. Where does the value go? Can you answer that? MathExtremist couldn't.
It is theft. If I steal from you, I benefit. If the government takes value from you by printing worthless fiat money, who benefits?
Quote: MathExtremistYou say inflation is theft, I show why it's not, and you resort to an ad hominem retort.
No, you have not shown why inflation is not theft, because it is theft. And you have twisted my words, and you have been disingenuous. That's not ad hominem to point that out Calling you a dumb ass would be ad hominem, and that's not allowed on this forum.
Why can't I print my OWN money? Why is it against the law?
Quote: TigerWuThat is actually one of the arguments for why inflation is "good."
If you borrow a certain amount of money, then pay it back in installments over a certain number of years, with inflation you will end up paying less. Therefore, inflation is good for debt holders.
Counterfeiting is good for the counterfeiter.
Quote: bobbartopYeah, wow back at you. Where does the value go? Can you answer that? MathExtremist couldn't.
It is theft. If I steal from you, I benefit. If the government takes value from you by printing worthless fiat money, who benefits?
"Smart" people tend to think that if they make things complex enough that the masses will go along with it. Often it is so simple, though, I have listened to a bunch of people way up the corporate ladder, and they so often make so little sense. I took ab hour long conference call with all kinds of buzzwords that me and another guy did not understand and did not understand what we were supposed to do and boiled it down to I am not kidding, two or so sentences and less than 10 seconds to say them. Dead silence on the other end at first then a sheepish "yeah, that is about it" to my question.
Inflation is so simple. The dollar in your pocket buys less tomorrow than today. Meaning if you are a creditor you lose and if you are a debtor you come out ahead. Ask yourself who owes more money than any other entity in the world.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
Quote: AZDuffman"Smart" people tend to think that if they make things complex enough that the masses will go along with it. Often it is so simple, though, I have listened to a bunch of people way up the corporate ladder, and they so often make so little sense. I took ab hour long conference call with all kinds of buzzwords that me and another guy did not understand and did not understand what we were supposed to do and boiled it down to I am not kidding, two or so sentences and less than 10 seconds to say them. Dead silence on the other end at first then a sheepish "yeah, that is about it" to my question.
Inflation is so simple. The dollar in your pocket buys less tomorrow than today. Meaning if you are a creditor you lose and if you are a debtor you come out ahead. Ask yourself who owes more money than any other entity in the world.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
As soon as someone brings up Keynes, or even worse, Paul Krugman, you know the conversation is over. Hopeless.
It's 1984. Education, means re-education. As in "camp".
Quote: TigerWu
Nobody walks in LA
Quote: bobbartopQuote: MathExtremistYou say inflation is theft, I show why it's not, and you resort to an ad hominem retort.
No, you have not shown why inflation is not theft, because it is theft. And you have twisted my words, and you have been disingenuous. That's not ad hominem to point that out Calling you a dumb ass would be ad hominem, and that's not allowed on this forum.
Why can't I print my OWN money? Why is it against the law?
You can print your own money. What you can't do is print US Currency.
All you have to do is print currency and find people willing to accept it. The dollar in my pocket is backed by the full faith and credit of the US of A. Tell me why yours is a better deal and you are in business.
I've printed plenty of my own currency and never had a problem with people buying it.
Most recently, we printed Millienium bucks. Sold booklets with $120 worth for $60. Only caveat was you could only cash $10 a month., and obviously they could only be used in places that accepted them. Thats perhaps the fifteenth time we've done that.
You are free to do the same.
Quote: billryan
You can print your own money. What you can't do is print US Currency.
All you have to do is print currency and find people willing to accept it.
Isn't that basically what casino chips are?
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: rsactuaryQuote: AZDuffmanLast time it was this low was 30 years ago, before so many women worked.
You realize the difference between the high and low on this graph is 5% right? Graphed to prove your point, not the truth.
And you do realize the difference between 5 and 10% unemployment is the difference between near-full employment and a severe recession and the difference between 10 and 15% is the difference between a severe recession and a near-depression?
You know I just realized something.... A 5% difference in unemployment is not the same as a 5% difference in labor force participation....
Quote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: rsactuaryQuote: AZDuffmanLast time it was this low was 30 years ago, before so many women worked.
You realize the difference between the high and low on this graph is 5% right? Graphed to prove your point, not the truth.
And you do realize the difference between 5 and 10% unemployment is the difference between near-full employment and a severe recession and the difference between 10 and 15% is the difference between a severe recession and a near-depression?
You know I just realized something.... A 5% difference in unemployment is not the same as a 5% difference in labor force participation....
Correct. In one case the people are still looking for work, in the other case they have given up working for a living.
Life is good.
Quote: billryanI'm one who has left the workforce. Thanks to Obama Care I can afford my own health insurance and not be tied to a job. Combine that with some good investments and it's time for my money to work for me, rather than the other way around. I haven't given up looking for work, in fact I'm turning down work on a weekly basis.
Life is good.
If you doing so well then why do you have people subsidizing your health insurance via Obamacare?
Quote:
Correct. In one case the people are still looking for work, in the other case they have given up working for a living.
But I mean a 5% shift in labor force participation is not the difference between a good economy and a recession, like it would be with a 5% shift in the unemployment rate, right?
Quote: TigerWuBut I mean a 5% shift in labor force participation is not the difference between a good economy and a recession, like it would be with a 5% shift in the unemployment rate, right?
It means that people have given up, and if we had participation like we had a decade ago then unemployment would be 10% or so.
Quote: AZDuffmanIf you doing so well then why do you have people subsidizing your health insurance via Obamacare?
I'm simply making use of existing laws, just like the dumpster.
Do you think there has been hedonic adjustments to the lpr?Quote: AZDuffmanIt means that people have given up, and if we had participation like we had a decade ago then unemployment would be 10% or so.
http://www.shadowstats.com/
Quote: AZDuffmanIt means that people have given up, and if we had participation like we had a decade ago then unemployment would be 10% or so.
Incorrect.
Quote: billryanI'm simply making use of existing laws, just like the dumpster.
But you said you could not afford health insurance before Obamacare? Assuming that is all you can afford it otherwise then I am just wondering your definition of "doing well?"
Quote: bobbartopIf a farmer puts water on the ground and grows food, he is PRODUCING.
If the same farmer can't afford the equipment to produce enough food to sell, going into debt to create a strong business would crush him. He could work for a rich farmer, but without inflation it would be extremely hard to find ways to invest his paycheck to use the money he earns to earn even more money. Inflation encourages both investment and risk, which must be part of the path to innovation and growth.
(I actually favor the lower inflation rates of 1-2% as that encourages savings, which Americans struggle with too much).
Quote: bobbartopNo, you have not shown why inflation is not theft, because it is theft.
If you so strongly believe in this you can buy near zero commission theft insurance in the form of inflation adjusted bonds. How have those done for you compared to market based investments?
You don't get a free pass by calling me names. Maybe Trump gets away with playing hide the weenie by being boorish but you don't. If inflation is theft, why isn't deflation theft too? You were complaining about your $5 pies the other day? Suppose I'm a pie maker who spends 30 minutes to bake a pie so I can sell it to you for $5. Now suppose you control the magic knob and press the "deflation" button. So deflation happens and the price of a pie drops to $2.50. You're happy, you get cheap pies. I'm far less happy, I now have to work twice as hard to make the same $5. You have stolen my time. Why aren't you a thief?Quote: bobbartopNo, you have not shown why inflation is not theft, because it is theft.
Your chief complaint is based on the false assumption that the purchasing power of money is and should be constant. It is neither. That's like saying the barter equivalent of a pie should stay constant, so maybe those 50c pies you were eating in the 1960s should still be worth 50c. You don't have an innate right to constant-value money, you never have, and agitating for that right is facile. Money is worth what you can buy with it at the time you use it. Why do you think a bottle of water at the airport costs $4 but at Costco costs $0.50?
Having established that constant-value money is an untenable notion, the question turns to how a fluctuating monetary value should be managed. Inflation encourages investment and consumption rather than savings, since currency saved erodes in value over time. That is not a bad thing. In the context of the overall economic environment, some inflation is vastly superior to deflation or stagnation. Calling it theft is just a ruse to avoid discussing actual monetary policy. If that shallow level of discourse is all you care about, you can find someone else to play word games with.
Quote: AZDuffmanBut you said you could not afford health insurance before Obamacare? Assuming that is all you can afford it otherwise then I am just wondering your definition of "doing well?"
In 2008, I was paying $892 a month for a policy that my company was paying $1300 a month for. Now I'm paying a bit over $300. That $1,000 a month difference now pays the rent on my three bedroom apartment. Could I have swung the $1300 om my own, perhaps, but an individual policy in NY would have run closer to $1600, with high deductibles. Thanks to the wonders of deferred compensation, I had zero income last year. Life in good in America. Why pay 35% income tax this year when you can pay capital gains on the same money next year and have it all to work for you.
Quote: TomGIf you so strongly believe in this you can buy near zero commission theft insurance in the form of inflation adjusted bonds. How have those done for you compared to market based investments?
Rhodesia was once a wealthy nation, they had exports, they had an educational system, a good standard of living. Mugabe takes over and inflates their dollar to where it has zero value. They printed Trillion Dollar notes, that are worth nothing. Any value anyone had is gone. Where did it go? It was stolen. Inflation is theft. The whole country is poverty stricken now. People must sift in the rivers for small amounts of gold grains to buy bread. Only gold is accepted. A Trillion Dollar bill will buy nothing.
It's theft. Mugabe robbed the country. A child should be able to recognize this, it is so simple.
Quote: blackholeI just finished reading this entire thread up to this point. It should be fair to consider these opinions come from all over the country, and makes it clearer to me why our country is in such dire straits.
I propose you haven't seen nothing yet. If someday our money is worth nothing because irresponsible politicians have run up huge debt and printed worthless fiat money to pay for it, we'll find out what "dire straits" really is.
Quote: TomGIf the same farmer can't afford the equipment to produce enough food to sell, going into debt to create a strong business would crush him. He could work for a rich farmer, but without inflation it would be extremely hard to find ways to invest his paycheck to use the money he earns to earn even more money. Inflation encourages both investment and risk, which must be part of the path to innovation and growth.
(I actually favor the lower inflation rates of 1-2% as that encourages savings, which Americans struggle with too much).
The point that I apparently failed to make is that PRODUCTION is what builds a rich and healthy economy. You produce something, from nothing. Food, from water and dirt. Houses, from dirt and tree seeds. Buildings, from metal dug out of the ground. We can not spend our way into prosperity. You cannot just print worthless money and claim to be rich.
Quote: TigerWuIsn't that basically what casino chips are?
My words and obvious point were twisted once again. That happens a lot lately. Obviously I asked why I cannot print my own US currency. Why is it a crime and they put you in jail for counterfeiting? Because you are stealing from others by doing so, that's why. It is theft.
The Constitution gave Congress the power to COIN money, not CREATE money. Money was gold and silver. If paper money was printed, it had to be redeemable in gold and silver. Prices remained stable. Then eventually the government took all the value backing our money, away. I think Nixon took the last gold backing away. (I'm guessing on that, I'd have to look it up). Now a dollar, is just a dollar. It's just a word. But it used to be, by definition, a fixed weight of precious metal. With $20 trillion in debt it is only a matter of time before the house of cards comes crashing down. It's amazing that it is still standing. We are like the frog in the pot of warm water that is being heated up and we don't realize that soon we will be cooked.
