New Games I've Seen

Hello everyone!

Just wanted to write down some games I saw while exploring the internet.

First is Novo Poker - the exact same as Caribbean Poker, but if you have Three of a Kind or better, you can get "insurance" against the Dealer not qualifying. The insurance bet is paid 1:1 if the dealer does not qualify (below Ace/King) and pushes if the dealer beats your hand. I guess the house edge of this bet depends on how good your hand is, with a lower house edge for Three 2's than a Straight Flush. Either way the house edge is really bad.

Next is Dream Blackjack, in the Philippines whose 5.93% house edge makes it not a dream. There is a Push 22 but in return you can double on 3 cards.
They also seem to have the Over/Under 13 side bet...I thought this went extinct from counting :D

Thirdly, I found a New Zealand money wheel with slightly different pay table then I'm used to seeing - on closer inspection though it just seems to be a combination of existing pay tables so nothing for me to analyze there.

Additionally, I found another game from the Philippine Casino from earlier: Baccarat 27
It seems to be a new no-commission variety of Baccarat where a winning Banker 7 pays 1:2 but a winning Banker 2 pays 2:1. The house edge for Banker is 1.72%. I like what they were trying to do but sadly the higher house edge doesn't appeal to me. There are lots of side bets, all with high house edges.

Finally, I found two very similar Niu Niu varieties, but I do not understand the game well enough to say how "innovative" this is or isn't. The rules are slightly different from what the Wizard of Odds website has. I found one variant in Vietnam and another in the Philippines. Do we have any Niu Niu enjoyers/experts in this forum?

Miscellaneous questions:
Other than pai gow tiles, has there ever been a casino game played with dominoes in modern times?
Is there a "House Way" for Niu Niu?
And as always... has anyone seen any new games or side bets?:)

Like always thanks for reading I hope you have a good weekend :)

P.S. I will be adding some more rare games to my website like Vega$ 3 and Three Card Baccarat soon, I've been mostly focusing on adding more Baccarat and Blackjack side bets recently

Several years ago I put a large amount of effort into developing a Niu Niu spreadsheet for calculating EV probabilities - for development of a basic strategy and evaluation of 'collaboration' opportunities.

Sadly, my desktop PC suffered a catastrophic hard disk failure, and the spreadsheet was not backed up on the cloud. I interpreted this as a divine signal that analyzing Niu Niu was a No-No.

I can't remember whether Charliepatrick has analyzed Niu Niu or not.

I found a new game for extremely intelligent people last night.
It's an Indian game called 7 Up 7 Down. There are two dice and you bet on whether they will roll 7, Under 7, or Over 7.

You can play on my website here

Quote: harris

I found a new game for extremely intelligent people last night.
It's an Indian game called 7 Up 7 Down. There are two dice and you bet on whether they will roll 7, Under 7, or Over 7.

You can play on my website here
link to original post

It's not exactly "new"; "Over and Under 7" is mentioned in Scarne's Complete Guide to Gambling, which is from the 1970s, and this is also mentioned by the Nevada Gaming Control Board as an allowable side bet in craps.

There are some people for whom Casino War is way too complicated.

For them, I present, Dragon Tiger
I knew about its existence online but now I know it's played in India in real life so I added it.

If anyone has seen it with more side bets in real life I can add those. I suspect the side bets on the Wizard of Odds website are from online providers.

I will try to add all the other games that I found on this casino's website: Andar Bahar, Mini Flush, 5 Card Poker, Texas House Poker - the last two might just be re-named table games, I'll read about them on my bus to DC tonight.

Quote: harris

I will try to add all the other games that I found on this casino's website: Andar Bahar, Mini Flush, 5 Card Poker, Texas House Poker - the last two might just be re-named table games, I'll read about them on my bus to DC tonight.
link to original post

Update:

Mini Flush seems to be an Indian version of Three Card Poker - the rules are not completely clear to me based on what I see on the website/video.
5 Card Poker seems like Caribbean Stud but with the possibility to exchange cards? I don't think it's Lunar Poker (Russian Poker).
I am almost certain Texas House Poker is just Texas Hold'Em Bonus

Another game I found presents itself as a simplified version of Pai Gow Tiles

It's just a Baccaratified version with a 5% commission

Hoiana Pai Gow

I have thought about the idea of a simplified Pai Gow in the future - I guess it would probably involve eliminating Wongs and Gongs and making it so that any "5/7" will tie with any "5/7" for example.

Can anyone please identify if this 5 Card Poker is related to any known existing game? It seems like Oasis Poker but it says you can draw two cards...

1. I found out that there is a California-style no-bust version of Free Bet at the Crystal Casino in southern California.
2. Breakout Blackjack will premier at the Strat in Vegas soon
3. Hi-Lo Mojo will premier soon in Tulsa, OK
4. Light & Wonder recently posted about a game that looks like a mix between 3-card poker and UTH - I am sure it will be easy to analyze but I don't have time for that right now due to family obligations

From now on I will use this thread to inform forum readers about new games they might want to play
Anyone else can use this thread to report on new games too of course :)

I found this thing called Section Bets in New Zealand

When I saw it, I realized the house edge was lower than the normal bets...


Voisons has a 35/37 RTP (5.41% house edge)
Same with Tiers

Orphans has a 32/37 RTP (13.5135% house edge) :/

Quote: harris

I found this thing called Section Bets in New Zealand

When I saw it, I realized the house edge was lower than the normal bets...


Voisons has a 35/37 RTP (5.41% house edge)
Same with Tiers

Orphans has a 32/37 RTP (13.5135% house edge) :/
link to original post

When the Borgata first opened they offered a neighbors bet on roulette that was +EV by mistake I assume. When you won they did not take drop your bet so it was still alive for the next spin. That was probably 30 years ago but I remember doing the math in my room and thinking it was too good to be true.

^ Sadly the data on my current laptop only goes back a few years. I can see we discussed it back in 2018 - https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/math/31513-niu-niu/4/ and there are some figures (not mine) there.
If it's now an Ante/Raise game, similar to 3CP, then the quick way is to find the cutoff (assuming independence), and then run close calls using brute force. That's how one can get Q64 in 3CP. However with 5-card poker it's complicated by being able to see one Dealer card, so there may be close decisions depending on your cards. (Given suits don't matter it's easier to run through ranks of cards and multiply by how many are left over.)

Two of the winners of the Table Games competition in Tulsa have already gotten placements.
The 3rd place winner is Supreme 13 and it was my favorite game that was at the convention (I didn't go but I saw videos of the games). I hope it can get a placement

Supreme 13 recently got a demo online, does anyone want to figure out the basic strategy with me? I'm guessing that you raise x2 if you have a "2" or "3" as your first card. And I'm guessing you should fold weak hands (like 18 or 8) against a dealer's 2 or 3.

I've only managed a quick look (so it may be wrong!) and, assuming you double with a +EV, it seems you only think of doubling with 2 thru 8.
2 vs 9-A
3 always
4 vs 2, 5-A
5 thru 8, 2 and any equal or higher cards
(Note you can bust with 2 thru 5 by not making it to 8! Also observe that the dealer with, say A, will bust with 8 9 T or A)
With two cards and seeing the dealer's card, you can actually work out how many outs the dealer has (in some case he has none - e.g. 12 vs Picture) and make the calculation whether to fold or raise.

It's no big deal for casinos to install new slot machines with different features and paytables. The computer does everything with zero mistakes.

One reason why there aren't a gazillion new table games is that dealers are going to make mistakes (more so than usual). If they make a mistake in favor of the house rather than the player, there's a good chance the players will protest, but if it's in favor of the player, they won't. That eats into profit.

It also takes time to correct mistakes because surveillance has to review it. Time is money.

New games are also more popular with the 20-something $5 crowd -- very little profit there. The experienced players with larger bankrolls prefer traditional games.

I liked the game. Its quick. As in BJ, if both the player and dealer bust, the player loses.

Quote: charliepatrick

I've only managed a quick look (so it may be wrong!) and, assuming you double with a +EV, it seems you only think of doubling with 2 thru 8.
2 vs 9-A
3 always
4 vs 2, 5-A
5 thru 8, 2 and any equal or higher cards
(Note you can bust with 2 thru 5 by not making it to 8! Also observe that the dealer with, say A, will bust with 8 9 T or A)
With two cards and seeing the dealer's card, you can actually work out how many outs the dealer has (in some case he has none - e.g. 12 vs Picture) and make the calculation whether to fold or raise.
link to original post

Thanks for your efforts: Should we maybe be solving this game backwards? Like shouldn't we figure out the EV's for the potential second decision before the first decision?

^ Yes I agree that would have been the correct way to do it; this was only meant as a quick look to give an idea. Also, using this idea, there are times when you will bust (with a low score or 8A) with a double-down.

I did find it strange that an Ace always counted as 11, it would have been simple to say that the first Ace counts 11 unless it takes you over 18. I guess it's because it causes a bust, and the House Edge is heavily based on Player's busting before the Dealer.

Another quick look gives
On two cards
fold 8/18 vs 4,5,6 or 7
fold 9/17 vs 5 or 6
On one card
Double 8 vs 9-11
Double 7 vs 2 or 8-11
Double 6 vs 2 or 7-11
Double 5 vs 2 or 7-11
Double 4 vs 8-11
Double 3 vs 10-11

I think the reason for some of the differences from my previous post, is that although it's positive EV for 3 vs 9 or 2 vs 11, it didn't take into account that if you don't double you only lose 2 units when you bust (as you can fold), whereas you lose 4 units if you've doubled.

Battle 1-2-3 appears to be at a few casinos. AGS has been marketing it a bit :)

Quote: charliepatrick

Another quick look gives
On two cards
fold 8/18 vs 4,5,6 or 7
fold 9/17 vs 5 or 6
On one card
Double 8 vs 9-11
Double 7 vs 2 or 8-11
Double 6 vs 2 or 7-11
Double 5 vs 2 or 7-11
Double 4 vs 8-11
Double 3 vs 10-11

I think the reason for some of the differences from my previous post, is that although it's positive EV for 3 vs 9 or 2 vs 11, it didn't take into account that if you don't double you only lose 2 units when you bust (as you can fold), whereas you lose 4 units if you've doubled.
link to original post

Thanks Charlie.

If your 2nd card is the same rank as your first card you are offered the option of splitting your pair by matching the ante and raise bet. When should we split 22pair - AA pair versus a dealer 2-A?

^ I've also noticed that with a hand such as 7vs7 and 6vs6, where neither side can bust, then without the auto-win 13 and folding option, it would be 50:50 who wins. Thus because you win any 13-13 tie, you might have had a slight advantage, so do you double? However this would then preclude the option of folding. I also suspect 5vs6 might have been worth doubling, that might be because when you get a ten-card you get 15, while if the dealer does, they get a worse hand of 16; together with only one chance in 13 of you busting.
Thus if you weren't allowed to fold, you would actually double these! However with the option to fold, you should draw rather than double.

Quote: gordonm888

...
Thanks Charlie.

If your 2nd card is the same rank as your first card you are offered the option of splitting your pair by matching the ante and raise bet. When should we split 22pair - AA pair versus a dealer 2-A?

I didn't realise that, so I might have a look at this later. Are you allowed to split a "bust" hand such as 2-2, 3-3 or even J-J? My gut feeling is you play nice hands such as 6-6 and 7-7 but split low pairs versus bad dealer cards. It's not so obvious with high cards since you still have a high chance of busting again (e.g. 9-9 has a 5 in 13 chance).
At the moment my sim, which doesn't yet allow fold, is within 1.2% House Edge of the spreadsheet (both without splitting). Because I was getting such a high value (12.3-13.5%) I was worrying! Now I can see why.

Quote: charliepatrick

Are you allowed to split a "bust" hand such as 2-2, 3-3 or even J-J?

yes

Quote: harris

Quote: charliepatrick

Are you allowed to split a "bust" hand such as 2-2, 3-3 or even J-J?

yes
link to original post

I had an unusual hand: 10,10 v 10. I figured that I was already bust versus a potential bust hand for dealer so I split the 10s. I drew a 3 to each hand, and then raised each hand 2x. The dealer then drew and busted with a King. A huge payout. I'm not sure that was optimum strategy but it was Fold or Split.

I've yet to look at splitting; one of the issues is you may have doubled before receiving your second card (and presumably have to double the second hand as well), or (as you did with 10-10) still retain the option, after splitting, of busting, folding, calling or doubling. You then have to retrofit that back into the original decision whether to double!

I've only managed a quick look at splitting and my understanding is that if you originally doubled (on the first card) then both hands need to be doubled. Alternatively, if after the second card, you had an option to raise or fold but decided to split, then you'll only be able to raise or fold.
It's usually best to split when you have a chance, so it's easier to say when you play on (i.e. raise or stand) rather than split.
Note: Some of the higher pairs are not split if you have doubled, this is because you have to put up a double raise, just to find you've bust, whereas in a regular split you only lose one unit!
I haven't revisited the double decisions to cater for the split advantage.
Please note I haven't checked these, but they seem to make sense.

Breakout Blackjack (game linked here) was recently released at the Strat to a fantastic reception, and it has many more placements soon. I bet it's gonna be really successful.

Anyways you can play it with all side bets and pay tables on my website.

Finally got the spreadsheet to agree with a (large 60-deck shoe) simulation - although given the way I've done it I have to assume the (infinite deck) spreadsheet has the correct strategy. There are also a few new doubles due to the ability to split (e.g. 3s vs 2, 8 and 9).

This means you lose an average of about 3.17% of the unit bet, when making two initial wagers, which seems very reasonable. (The House Edge of the 4-deck sim was 3.19%).

Thanks for your hard work Charlie.

I wonder how many decks are used, it's not specified on the website. Maybe it's just one deck? The animation on the game's website would seem to imply that it's just one deck that is shuffled every time.

While I don't want to throw around the word "countable" I think that counting the aces and 2s in the deck would definitely be useful to players if a shoe is used. Casinos should be able to catch counters pretty easily though.

I think it's interesting that the game doesn't have any side bets - but I understand give that the layout already has five betting spaces.

This topic was alluded to on both my "History of Table Games" thread, and the Wizard's recent livestream, but I wanted to discuss it here.

Is there a current drought in table games innovation due to the government's decision regarding the non-copyrightability of game mechanics?

Or is innovation preceding more-or-less as usual compared to the late 90's/early 2000's before this decision?

To me, it seems like independent creators like to showcase games at the annual convention in February (which was in Tulsa this year) whereas major companies like Galaxy Gaming, AGS, TCSHuxley, and above all L&W like to showcase new games at G2E, which together provides several new viable table games annually.