rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 2001
December 9th, 2014 at 9:51:03 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

A family would never be killed. Though we could claim to the inmate they are in the process of being killed to scare him. This is a psychological tactic. They are already in total isolation if they get to the stage where it is used so they have no way of knowing otherwise. Obviously nobody would actually be harmed, its purely mentalism.

Carpet bombing a country would not save lives, it would cause a lot of collateral damage and a lot of political enemies.

That is Sam Harris's main defense of torture. Is making a known terrorist uncomfortable acceptable if it saves a lot of civilian lives by allowing a precise strike on the individual? Many say yes (many liberals its not just a NeoCon thing).

Torture is many ways is more humane as it allows us to precisely arrest or eliminate terrorists without putting civilians on either side at risk. I know it sounds ironic to word it like that, but actually think about it without using emotions, it is the logical conclusion.



How do you feel about these drone attacks? Theres been more collateral damage. More innocents have been killed than combatants.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
  • Threads: 310
  • Posts: 6775
December 9th, 2014 at 10:04:55 PM permalink
Quote: Zuga

Torture is a war crime, and ... is strictly forbidden by Geneva and UN conventions.



The Geneva Conventions apply at times of war and armed conflict to governments who have ratified its terms.

Have the terrorists ratified its terms?

*rhetorical question*

Hell no, they haven't.

It isn't a "war" as is required for application of the Geneva Conventions.

They're fair game, so long as we do it in a foreign country.
"What, me worry?"
aladyat42
aladyat42
Joined: Mar 10, 2011
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 72
December 9th, 2014 at 10:24:41 PM permalink
terrorists should be given a fair trial, then executed promptly. Delwying their death would be torture
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 1130
December 10th, 2014 at 1:25:17 AM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

How do you feel about these drone attacks? Theres been more collateral damage. More innocents have been killed than combatants.



I don't know. That may be true. But what is the alternative? If not drones, we would either have to send groups of soldiers (or the local government would, which would likely be even less precise) running through the villages searching for people, a firefight would likely ensue, which would cause more causalities?

Its also not as cut and dry as people think, even some local governments like drone strikes, as it prevents them from sending their police and militaries into the village. We don't just drone strike people in random countries without permission of their government (well unless we are at war obviously...).
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 96
  • Posts: 13253
December 10th, 2014 at 1:43:07 AM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

OK but what about the people the US has arrested for waterboarding including US soldiers in Vietnam. Did waterboarding suddenly magically become OK during the last 40 years?



No, it became magically OK when Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld were running the White House. Hopefully this will burst the magic bubble, though more hopefully it got burst a while back and we're just now learning about the abuses.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Zuga
Administrator
Zuga
Joined: May 21, 2014
  • Threads: 43
  • Posts: 408
December 10th, 2014 at 5:41:01 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

No. Without a doubt it can (and has) save lives. And none of the above techniques if done properly, causes permanent damage.




those "techniques" are not just those "techniques" as there is zillion ways to torture someone. And even if it is not causing any permanent damage, what about the temporary damage and what about the psychological damage.?

there is no justification for torture. period. It is a crime and criminals should be tried.
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
Boz
Boz 
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
  • Threads: 153
  • Posts: 5253
December 10th, 2014 at 6:45:19 AM permalink
Quote: Zuga

those "techniques" are not just those "techniques" as there is zillion ways to torture someone. And even if it is not causing any permanent damage, what about the temporary damage and what about the psychological damage.?

there is no justification for torture. period. It is a crime and criminals should be tried.




I can't help but wonder if you opinion is shaded by the ways it was abused in your country in the past. It was used on regular citizens and others that were not bad people. But when people fly planes into buildings, all bets are off in my opinion.
Boz
Boz 
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
  • Threads: 153
  • Posts: 5253
December 10th, 2014 at 6:46:38 AM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/12/09/3601312/17-disgraceful-facts-contained-in-the-torture-report/




Shouldn't any post that links "Think Progress" immediately be discredited?
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 3306
December 10th, 2014 at 6:48:03 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Shouldn't any post that links "Think Progress" immediately be discredited?



Pretty much.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

  • Jump to: